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So, when is the game getting rolled back?


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After this mornings huge screwup and bot prices were reduced 100x, I've seen screenshots of 10s of billions in schematics, and have heard of people who bought items at the bugged prices and resold to players who made hundreds of millions in a few minutes. When is this getting rolled back?

 

At this point it is probably too late to just reverse the market transactions. People are trying to hide the money in ore or moving it around, so the only way to catch it all is to rollback. If you just remove the schematics and return the money, you screw over all the people who had their buy orders filled and the people who sold them bugged items get to keep all that money. The longer it takes to rollback, the more annoyed people will be, so probably best done sooner rather than later.

 

I won't speak for everyone, but if people are allowed to keep these items, or the money they got from selling them, then I'm personally moving on to different games. There is no reason to play if someone who logs in for 5 minutes at the right time makes more progress than others who have been playing for months.

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After this mornings huge screwup and bot prices were reduced 100x, I've seen screenshots of 10s of billions in schematics, and have heard of people who bought items at the bugged prices and resold to

The only thing that saves this burning dumpster fire besides removing all ill gotten schematics or a rollback is to flat come out now and say there will be a full wipe before release. Seriously NQ, yo

Why is this such a hard thing to fix?  Just find those purchases in the database, refund the money to the player, and remove the schematics.  It might be too late by now, players may have already made

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2 hours ago, Nayropux said:

After this mornings huge screwup and bot prices were reduced 100x, I've seen screenshots of 10s of billions in schematics, and have heard of people who bought items at the bugged prices and resold to players who made hundreds of millions in a few minutes. When is this getting rolled back?

Yikes. This is the first I'm hearing of this...stupid work. Just like real life, my chances to become rich just slip on by. :D 

 

Does NQ not have dev/test servers...? Why are changes getting rolled straight into production without any testing, first...?

 

I feel bad for whoever made the mistake...but this sounds like a general lack of discipline/caring from the dev team. There should be protocols for touching production data! 

 

I just hope they don't blame the dev/devs that screwed up but instead ask why the heck they were allowed to roll a change like this into production without testing...or if they did test, why it wasn't caught. 

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Well that's a bit of a mistake, lol. The people who have profited don't hurt my game at all however. There is no PvP or territory warfare to worry about people gaining advantage. I don't really see the problem. Although rolling back the last 24 hours of server history would be annoying right now, I've done a lot of good work.

If there is one thing that makes a game boring then it is having too much of everything and nothing to do. I hope some of the people who got rich off this still find a way to enjoy the game.

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44 minutes ago, michaelk said:

Yikes. This is the first I'm hearing of this...stupid work. Just like real life, my chances to become rich just slip on by. :D 

 

Does NQ not have dev/test servers...? Why are changes getting rolled straight into production without any testing, first...?

 

I feel bad for whoever made the mistake...but this sounds like a general lack of discipline/caring from the dev team. There should be protocols for touching production data! 

 

I just hope they don't blame the dev/devs that screwed up but instead ask why the heck they were allowed to roll a change like this into production without testing...or if they did test, why it wasn't caught. 

This an admin that needs a reprimand, or a bad decision on the part of NQ/JC. Devs should never have direct access to production systems. This is why there is always a test server, and changes should roll up to it before ever being rolled out to prod.

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13 minutes ago, NoRezervationz said:

This an admin that needs a reprimand, or a bad decision on the part of NQ/JC. Devs should never have direct access to production systems. This is why there is always a test server, and changes should roll up to it before ever being rolled out to prod.

This happens in the normal world. What makes you think it would happen here? The track record of the company speaks for itself.

 

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2 hours ago, Burble said:

The people who have profited don't hurt my game at all however

A warp beacon costs 20-30M to make, it is sold for much more because it takes so long to make and because people want to make back the money they paid for the schematics. The same can be said for any t3+ item, the price is not dictated so much by the raw materials but the build time and schematic price. 

Now that plenty of people practically got the schematics for free, there is no way anybody who paid the normal price for it will ever make his money back. The issue may not hurt you, because you don’t do industry, but it does hurt a lot of other players.

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2 minutes ago, Gottchar said:

A warp beacon costs 20-30M to make, it is sold for much more because it takes so long to make and because people want to make back the money they paid for the schematics. The same can be said for any t3+ item, the price is not dictated so much by the raw materials but the build time and schematic price. 

Now that plenty of people practically got the schematics for free, there is no way anybody who paid the normal price for it will ever make his money back. The issue may not hurt you, because you don’t do industry, but it does hurt a lot of other players.

Yes I am sure you are right about that Gottchar. So what is to be done to fix it and not annoy anyone innocent?

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4 minutes ago, Burble said:

Yes I am sure you are right about that Gottchar. So what is to be done to fix it and not annoy anyone innocent?

As they are unable to just take the items and give the owner what they paid (items do not have an ID, were trade on or are already in corp owned machines), they should do a rollback to before the accident. This will make some people angry but is at least fair. The longer they wait the worse it is.

Instead they will just stay silent or talk about the vision and just let it roll on. 

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I'm completely against rolling back, as people who actually played honestly would be losing their stuff, now it shouldn't be hard to track down people who bought like thousands of similar Schematics and/or resold them, in that case they deserve at least a warning and maybe to be charged the difference in Quanta from their own pockets

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As someone who is usually vocally and entirely anti-rollback and anti-wipe. I think this is a situation that would justify a roll-back. Yea it sucks hard but right now you lose around 24 hours. The longer they wait the worse it will be as well.

 

Sure the fact jonny whosit over there got 50 warp beacon blueprints wont hurt you now. But it wasnt just a few schems here and there. There are now people who spent as much as a billion on schems and have literally thousands of them on almost everything you can think of and can now dictate market prices to a point where they and others like them will be the ONLY ones who are able to compete in the market. That is unless you dont mind selling at what is esentially a loss on most products for a very long time.

 

This glitch has literally killed huge swaths of the market for most normal and all new players in terms of ability to compeat and literally invalidates .23. This means the only solutions are a rollback or to reduce schem prices down to glitch levels for an indeteminate amount of time unless you want a handful of super monopolies who price most players out of the market.

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I agree with @Arctic_fox on the idea of reducing Schematic prices, maybe for like 3 days or a week, just so it can be fair with other players and they can also get them for cheap... Less chance of a monopoly happening, no needs for rollback or doing stuff like bans or anything either

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The least damaging solution is to make all warp beacon schematics no longer work and release new ones. There cannot be too many people before this who legitimately owned a schematic for warp beacons. To piss off the least people and to remove the mistake this is the only way. Even if better if there was some way to count how many were owned before the mistake and try to work out who needs reimbursing.  What other schems are people unhappy about other people having? Rolling back everything that has happened in 24 hours is going to make 50% or more of the people angry.
 

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This stuff is why the game needs an “all but BP’s and skills” wipe on release. Reset the worlds and ore, etc..

 

I get it. I have stuff I do not want to lose too. But you can’t have stuff like this just go untreated in a PvP game with a player based economy. The consequences of these kind of massive economic errors only grow over time.

 

There’s a reason games wipe after Betas (and let’s be honest this is really an open alpha, not feature complete). There are going to be fuck ups, wildly bad balance passes, etc.. you can either micromanage their effects, ignore them and leave the game permanently damaged, or beta wipe. It seems like a pretty obvious decision from a balance/dev resource position.

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When will NQ realize that they are providing a subscription based live service game which was released 27th August in "beta" and they need to stop acting like it is september 2017 and they are about to start closed pre-alpha with backers?

 

It would appear NQ will never learn .. By now this is a chronic and structural problem that I feel is fed by a company culture of "if we say nothing, maybe it will just go away" which frankly is an insult and sign of disrespect towards your player base and a reason many games have failed and disappeared.

 

 

All this talk about how important the economy is and when shit happens, which it will and does, NQ does nothing and says nothing. It seems like they still do not understand that communication in a game like DU is key and that this is not limited to a marketing/PR sprint around a patch release. They jump the gun if someone abuses a mistake they make and insta ban these players but continue to refuse to own up to their own massive mistakes.

 

 

NQ seems oblivious to the fact they need to protect the economy in the game, it's very fragile and stuff like this does massive damage. They continue to allow the orgs with big money to get stronger and more powerful, not by playing the game but by taking advantage of the blunders and loopholes NQ creates. Mind you, I do not blame them  as they get handed what is pretty much a freebie so hey.. why not. But NQ seems to not realize what they are allowing to happen and that is at best strange.

 

 

People bought stuff from bots en-mass and sold it back at several times their buy price.. money out of thin air.. Players got their hands on high tier schematics at prices below the cost of producing the items with them. The amount of damage and unfair advantage that has been allowed to happen is astounding by now.

 

 

Frankly, NQ needs to take back the items bought with refunds.  They have been repeatedly and consistently told they need to improve, they have committed to doing so once every 6 months or so for the past2 + years and still.. nothing changed. How can @NQ-Naunet and @NQ-Naerais do what they should be doing, being CM and communicate on these things,  when it appears NQ leadership/management pretty much does nothing to enable them to do their job.

 

DU has so much potential and promise but it seems NQ continues to be the big factor actively holding the game back from getting there even when the player base seems to try and stay loyal and pull the cart for NQ. They claim to be ready for release within 8-10 months from now.. a big LOL is IMO very much justified regarding that unrealistic and naïve expectation as it stands.

 

 

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My subscription runs out on the 24th (2 days).    I was making my living buying and selling schematics to different markets/planets.

I wont be extending my subscription.  I plan to check back in 12 months and see if the game has reached a beta state.  If so I'll give it another go at that time.

Good luck everybody.

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As the final "bonus months" for subscriptions that qualified expire next week Tuesday we'll see how many paying players are left after that (backers play for free and our money was spent well before "beta" started mostly).

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Same here. As a backer I feel that over the years I have gotten my money's worth play testing (the 9999 era was golden), and lots of entertainment value just from watching and commenting on NQ stumbling along.

 

But..  I would never even consider paying subs for the current game.

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