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NEW SCHEMATICS - Discussion Thread


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I really a ppreciate that schematics are not removed, that woudl be a mistake.

 

The way schematicaa re changed though seem overly tedious and does not really change anything, in fact it maintains the status quo, although I expect that with the coming wipe, that wil be resolved.

 

I still do not understand how NQ thinks that schematics achieved their goal. As it is, they really do not limit anyone to make anything, they are just tedious. 

 

I've seen some ideas around schematics, spcifically THIS from some time ago which I feel would be a far better approach. Yes, it kind of copies the EVE system but what's wrong with copying something that works and give it your own spin?

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Sounds like another step away from player driven economy.

Producing items consume schematics copies.

Copying schematics will cost "a small fee".

This will create new TAX

 

Yet another "small fee".... When combing all situations where Aphelia collects those so called "small fees" total becomes wery big.

 

Great TAX simulator

 

 

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I'm personally not a fan of this.  Industry may be annoying or time consuming or tedious in some aspects but the most important thing that industry and factories and building elements brings is purpose.  Goals to achieve as one expands and grows as a player.  For those of us that have big factories, a lot of us do because it provides literally years of gameplay.  I've been playing for 1.5 years now and every element I add to my factory is a personal accomplishment.  It's the culmination of selling blueprints that I've created, or mining or salvaging or missioning.  It's the year and a half of building something that's very intricate and delicate and complex and yes, tedious. 

 

I'm also concerned about the push towards Coop or more than likely requiring alts making industry pay to play. 

 

I'm concerned about how this will limit the market capabilities for the parts.  While DU is in beta, I wouldn't expect there to be parts only manufacturing, but it's not unreasonable to expect there to be a market for these items with a larger player base.

 

I'm mostly concerned about the elimination of Goals to achieve in DU.

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The one thing I like about this approach is it means NQ can set prices in the future, thereby making it possible to adapt as the economy changes. They have to have this flexibility as it’s impossible to get it right at the start, and future features will require further changes to prices.

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The issue I have with this is that 0.23 was launched in December of 2020.

 

The fact that they are complaining about not having enough time when this change has been live over 1.5 years is very annoying.

 

Maybe if you actually made a real design and planned features, you wouldn't need to spend the last several update cycles reworking features!

Maybe if you engineered the game properly, it wouldn't take a year and a half to push such a simple change.

Maybe if you cared (at all) about making a good UX, this wouldn't seem tedious. Do they even have a single UI/UX person on staff? Very, very doubtful. 

 

It constantly feels like they are making excuses...nothing is their fault, so they will never improve as a company. Their bad choices and poor planning is brushed off as "not having enough time"...

 

This studio has zero capacity to learn from their past mistakes.

 

The choices they've made makes it hard to root for them as a player, which makes it hard to offer the "balanced" feedback they apparently crave. If NQ showed a dash of humility, it'd be a lot easier to be positive. 

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i guess i might not understand correctly how this new system will work but so far it sounds like a mistake, the fact that the schematics are consumable more specifically sound like a mistake it will simply get things even more complicated to manage. Keep in mind that the best limit we had is that players with high talents are able to sell items for cheaper than the cost in material a player with no talents could build an item. That alone forces players to specialise in industry if they are serious about it. For now mining units can supply ore easely since the amount of players is verry low but with a greather amount of players that situation should change and help to sell ore at a reasonable price to stimulate the economy.

 

As of right now it sounds like a system that will stimulate the creation of alt accounts so that players can have easy access to the schematics talents tree  

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we'll see what happens. The schematics explanation seems a bit complicated, but given every little items won't need schematics anymore and you'll just be regulating schematics for elements is a good way to go. I don't know if the implementation of this fix for the schematics will affect what happens regarding a wipe sine the biggest way to "turn back time" so to speak would be to restart most everything so the schematics can be slowly introduced and the people who spent boatloads of money for good schematics will be affected. Thanks for making a change. I hope this will make it better and not worse, but time will tell.

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How about this?

If you are making industry elements, have that be RNG as to what elements the machine you create can make?  

Now a machine that can make a specific exotic part can be really rare and not everyone could have one unless they buy it from another player, or spend the time trying to make one that does what they want.


Also have the number of elements they can make before decaying be RNG so a Rare element making machine that makes 100, or 1000 can be worth more.

 

Now add the exotic GEMS that you promised can be found by exploring increase your RNG chances for making machines that can produce better rare elements.

 

Now you just have to increase or decrease drop chances to regulate instead of changing prices or worse, increasing batch time.

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This update is essentially a cap on "global" industry (there is a limit to the number of schematics produceable by the population), and a soft cap on individual industry (a limit to the number of schematic training slots, and cash/willpower in buying in extra schematics).

 

Some good points:

  • Removing schematics for many items and some limited (but not all) elements will reduce some of the tedium.
  • Will allow NQ to balance the economy in different ways in contrast to the current just schematic prices. (Inert comment about autominers.)

Some bad points (i.e. needs a QoL pass):

  • Tedium of eternally loading batches of schematics into the machines (and finding the machines).
  • Tedium of eternally needing to purchase/deliver schematics from markets (self-producing won't be enough, unless you heavily alt-up). A few times counts as gameplay, eternally makes it another daily chore eventually. Not fun on top of calibrations.

 

@Gottchar's suggestion in Discord is that schematics could be auto-distributed to the relevant industry unit in a factory from a central location. This could be the unit that produces an individual's schematics. This would reduce the distribution tedium, as well enable group play when players notice "oh we are low on schematic X" and then proceeds to resolve this.

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1 hour ago, Ving said:

At first read this sounds even more cumbersome and tedious than the current implementation. It also sounds completely unrealistic.

 

Can we please see this in action on PTS BEFORE you finalise the system and implement it.

Yes we need to see this in action. I'm having trouble not thinking of this as turning a working system into a yet another tedious time wasting quanta pit.

 

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30 minutes ago, Saedow said:

So what about our current very very expensive schematics where we put our saving in... will those be lost?

And how will this new schematic system save the market? the market is still not alive.

I get the impression that they would refund the schematics that we purchased from the market, not what we actually own, like they did before.

 

I really  hope that "very soon" is not this week.

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First I will say I'm glad that the Schematics will still exist. However with the current idea that has been presented, I have MANY MANY questions.

As a factory builder who was attracted to this game for the Factory building aspects, (I have no interest in combat or PVP.) the changes that are proposed to the schematics seem to be aimed at frustrating and destroying factories in DU. Looking at Large operations like SVEA and Gottchar this will def wound those operations.

Even small factories having to print and load schematics for 2000 programming boards? 

The post calls out HoneyComb RIP Honeycomb Central. We have several large player built cities that exist in the world and are being built. Atlantis comes to mind. This will make that project so much more frustrating, since now they will need millions of schematics to make the billions of honeycomb needed for the build.

I understand we want player interaction, and that Mega factories cause lag and other issues for the game. But with the addition of the Exchange and this change to schematics. IS NQ building a Sand Box for us to play in? or a playpen? Do you want player interaction? or do you want player interaction that NQ has control in and gets a cut of the profits? 

Also how is Fuel going to work? will we need Schematics for those? how about Warp Cells? We need more information, and once again we have a massive sweeping change to the game. that will destroy at least 2 days of my work building my little tiny medium core factory. Don't even get me started on larger factories that I have no information of. I can imagine how much chaos this will add to SVEA, Gotttchar, Honjo  and so many other large factories. 

Not to mention the new Mini game of loading the schematics in to the machines. I want to play a game to have fun escape the real world for a little while and meet new and awesome people, Not be stuffed into the bowels of my factory twice a week attempting to find all the machines that are now idle because they ran out of copies of copies of schematics. 

Also why charge players for making copies of schematics that they bought? seems like an un needed Tax on the economy? we are already taxed on the land we mine on, The Selling of items in the exchange, Storing Items in the Exchange, Do we think there is going to be a large market for selling single use schematics on the exchange? is that going to be the new way to generate and bleed the factories to death? 

Much like the real world. If we make it difficult for people to produce the things we need in game, then we wont have the items we need to build the ships to play. If you kill all the farms in the real world then we have no food to eat.

Sorry for the Rambling, just a little confused as to why NQ doesn't want us to play their amazing creation.

TLDR; Schematic Changes sound like a bad plan that will kill factories.

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This is honestly one of the most ill-conceived ideas to ever hit DU.

 

Just get rid of schematics.

That's the end-result that you are going for, but you're trying to get there in the most needlessly confusing way possible.

 

Cut out all the nonsense. Look at the goal you are trying to achieve, and the most fun and satisfying way you can deliver it to players. That way is to just get rid of schematics.

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Re Reading the Post now and This Gem caught my eye.

"Remaking a feature means investing time into something that may not improve the game if we misfire. It also means risking making something worse, requiring even more time to fix later."

Please Listen @NQ-Kyrios and @NQ-Entropy I believe this is exactly what these changes will do. I fear this will destroy the game that I have come to love, and I want to succeed so badly. Listen to the Factory Builders, and the Ship Builders, I know endgame is PVP space battles, but you cant have that without a good foundation. You need us builders, and honestly with these changes, I may have to look for a new favorite game. 

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I don’t know how this schematic thing has got so much traction with the devs. I never hear players complain about schematics. As a post  0.23 player, it was just part of the game. As I understand it, most of the people for whom this was a dealbreaker quit a year and a half ago.

IMO There are much more important balance issues to address, like how to fix atmo flight without going backwards in pvp mechanics.
 

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Hey NQ peeps,

I think simplifying schematics is an awesome idea.  Schematics should really be for complicated devices, not turning ore into metals.

The duplicating and consuming of schematics is an over complication of the system. I also don't believe it will address your industry goals. 

 

A simpler system would be that all industry machines cause wear as they operate. (or in the underlying game, each element has hitpoints and industry units will take damage as they operate).  Zero hitpoints equals a destroyed industry unit.  You could even extend the repair mechanic to industry.  The point is that you'll have to consume more resources to maintain your industry as it scales up.  This feels less arbitrary than copying schematics and consuming them. 

 

Cheers, DJStraylight 

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