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DEVBLOG: CONSTRUCTION SLOTS AND STACKED ELEMENTS - discussion thread


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I just want to say, thank you NQ for the continued  stream of information.

 

EDIT

 

As a ship builder, I like to have examples of my ships next to the BP dispenser  so that a potential customer  can examine  the ship. As a solo player with no alts, this change will make that impossible. 

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I'm really happy to hear that the element stacking issue is getting further consideration.

 

If you can stomp out the exploit, while still allowing as much freedom and flexibility in the system as possible, it's going to make ship building a lot more fun, and make ships look a lot better overall.  Great news!

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2 minutes ago, Knoober said:

1625 max constructs per org?  Yes please :)

The organisation itself has 0 (ZERO !!!!)
This means that a player must first "give or sell" places to the organisation, only then can the organisation go through many players up to the corelimit mentioned.

A player will therefore become extremely important for organisations that want to build large projects. At the same time, solo players will be punished extremely severely, as an organisation no longer offers core places and you only have the places of your character.

@NQ-Deckard Should I start tearing down all my buildings?

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OMG. i am a builder.. an engineer .. a collector.. a single player. and i have played for quite some time.

i use a construct org with maxed talents to manage my constructs. and it is always close to the construct limit.
enabling a limit of 15 for my org basically means the end of almost everything for me.
How is that supposed to work. people like building stuff or buying cool stuff, and they usually come as a single new construct due to how DRM works.
so we are killing construct selling economy?
who would assign construct slots to an org if you need them to even store your own single player stuff??
seriously?
and all the mining unit cores? dead as well..  sorry.. that would not be my game any more

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Hagbard said:

sorry, i cannot assign any slots to IC... i need >250 myself

 

You, my friend, are a very expensive player. :)
I can understand this, of course, but if a single player can own 2500 constructs due to the current system, the costs way, way out weigh the amount they pay. The construct limits are almost certainly and purely because they were used to keep the game profitable. However, I do feel that the construct slot amount is quite low. I think 30 assignable or something would be more sensible, with maybe a max amount of 20 assignable per org so you are forced to assign it to more than one org. Almost no one will be assigning it to the current orgs cause why would they xD
 

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the number are to low.  A Single Player can have 25 Construct slots, for Mining Units u need lets say 10. For Buildings and Ships only 15 left.....

 

Just do it in the way that the player hast max 25 Construct slots for himself, and lets say 10 extra slots only for org spending which he cant use himself, only for org.

 

Or make it simple double the numbers.

 

At least the paying ppl should have more construction slot that beta key users.

 

 

Edited by PotatoMart
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The per player approach is likely the correct one, however abandoning the constructs so quickly when someone leaves is a bit... draconic. I feel like an org should have a longer period before abandoning happens.

 

also unless the new talents are very very cheap, 10 more org constructs is worse than the number you can get for private cores using talents (2 base + 15 talents). Sure the org constructs start at 15 but I feel like the talents should give at least 15 again if not double that. It would basically be required for ship collectors and builders.

 

 

 

 

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Something I didn't understand, 1625 max core for one organisation, but only 25 max slot per member !
so if an organisation want 1625 core, it need 65 member that will allow all there slot to one organisation ?

that can't be true, with the PVP fleet, the main base, the mining unit etc... 25 organisation slot only per player can't be real

so NQ can you make it clear ?

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This is another terrible update, at least the last one gave back a small amount, this one takes away again. 

 

It's almost like you want your game to fail.

 

Stacking elements was a solution to the under powered engines you provide. People don't want to have to make engine walls but you leave us no choice, no one can make sleek ships because of your poor statistics choices.

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Oh man..  15 + 10 cores as the max cap for any player regardless is really not that much and it is going to hurt A LOT of people badly.

 

Just of the top of my head.

- The new MU system is eating cores like they are candy

- Ship sellers need lots of cores for demonstration models

- Ship museums

- Creative players often use lots of dynamic cores to work around placement limitations for artistic expressions

 

Right now the only good thing I can think of is that this will limit the usefulness for making those pesky space elevators. But for big projects like race tracks, player driven markets etc.. oh man they are going to struggle.

 

And this limit will be a large hindrance for the stability of large community projects, since they will now be depending on the good will of players sacrificing slots and not taking them back again later.

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I would like to know how many core slots they give for a character. Will this number also be limited or expanded? This will now probably be the decisive point whether I will continue to use the game or just leave. I'm not going to spend weeks mining my buildings again to protect materials from looting and to meet ideological core limits. I'm really getting fed up with it.

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Well, this-... this certainly is an interesting solution to the organization core constructs problem. I'm curious as to how feasible it is though. Again, I've said this about the organization changes previously when the core limit was reduced initially. The further along we get, the deeper into social/communism we get. Everything will be public, very little will be private.

 

I won't say this is an inherently bad thing, I can see a time and place where E&E owns no cores since everything is community held and our members are simply the warm bodies that fill the role. Again though, I'll circle back to trust and how absolutely key it will be.

 

The idea that construct slots can be traded, and that the slot can be revoked at any time, I'll need some time to warm up to the idea because it feels a lot like taxes and everything else.

 

While the limit increase is nice, I can already see this becoming an element of PVP in a pretext to conflict. Say you have a fairly large organization and you get a bunch of core slots over time from people both within and without your org. You build everything up, and soon you got a nice base in a hallowed out mountain. Well all of a sudden your core slot lenders decide they don't much like you anymore so they revoke their slot and you tear everything down until you're safely under the core limit again and you stash your stuff away in containers.

 

Lets just imagine for a moment that TW is a thing that works in this situation. Now, along come your 'friends' from before who want your stuff, bing-bing-bong, bing-bing-bong (you know what that is right? ^_^ ), and they deservedly takeover your territory with what few constructs you have left on it. Wait a minuite, lookie here, your entire mountains worth of stuff, it's all in containers which you were nice enough to fill and ready for them to load up and fly off with.

 

Should probably only accept core slots from people that you trust, because the idea of manipulating orgs in that fashion, I don't even know what to say. This was defo not something I was expecting. I thought it would be tied to member count. I'll need to stew on this for a while.

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Its a step. I dont know where yet, but a step. From what I gather, this will greatly push advantage to players with alts again though by making it all that bit more necessary if you want to have many cores. Im not particularly against it, but I would have loved a system based on active player effort instead.

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Welp, there goes org-constructs.

Under the current tile/skill values it isnt hard to toss up 25 constructs just for running mining units, with personal constructs dedicated to a few stations with landing pads to store stuff for bulk movement in space, some ships I use, and a couple slots for ships/structures I am designing...

Max skills wont allow players to contribute much to group projects/structures, so you may need to do something about that.
-I'd advise at least doubling the ore in all hexes (and the hex-tax to compensate) so that people are tossing fewer of their constructs in to mining platforms and can spend more on cooperative play. 
-I'd also suggest just generally having a higher cap (perhaps via more skills or limiting this cap specifically to static/space core structures without industry/programing/container elements), as this limitation may just strait out invalidate a lot of larger artistic structures.

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People playing this game have to realize if you have not already, that NQ does not care about what we say it is full steam ahead to what ever that saves them server space and in the end costs to the bottom line. This is due in part to some bad decisions or implementations in game that lead to low player turn out or return. For a game such as this a BUILDING game and recognizing the complexity as such but at the same time NQ must realize that these decisions are EXTREMELY detrimental to the player base as a whole and will not bring in new players but in turn drive them away. We have said this many times and yet NQ does not listen whole heartedly to what we are saying. This will definitely drive most single players away due to a reduced ability to build. As some have said here it truly does seem that you want this game to fail.

 

Element stacking has not been a thing for a hot minute, now and of most recent you can not even place another element next to each other. Oh please pray tell why on earth would you not be able to place one element next to or adjacent another, I mean really what harm comes from this and how are ship builders supposed to have creative freedom to build when you can not even put an element next to another. Stacking is bad yes and is definitely an exploit which we told you all about it long ago to only be told it was not but may be addressed at a later date. 

 

So to sum it all up what does it mean, well from mining as a new player behind the curve unless I join an org, ship/construct building, oh I get a new tool to build eh but wait your taking away the amount of constructs I can have as a single player hmm again must join an org, breaking every ship in the game by not being allowed to deploy BPs due to complexity or the brakes or the number of constructs a player can have now. This is all not going to go the way you all think, yes some will embrace what ever you do to this game but most do NOT like being told they cant do this that or the third in a BUILDING game that THEY are PAYING for. 

 

For the record it says I am a newbie and that I am not I have been playing this game and commenting on the bad decisions made by NQ for well over a year now. I know not as long as most here but that does not diminish the fact that they are indeed BAD decisions that effect us all in this game. They say and promote community based building and want players to create wonderful things in game but then stifle that innovation with caps on cores and organization restructuring. This will not hurt just single players but the player base as a whole will be adversely affected.  

Edited by SpacePotatoe
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Yeah so what's stopping everyone from applying the 15 constructs to their own org? Doesn't sound good to me with all the mining static constructs needed atm..what will be the player max now?

 

Re: stacked elements;

 

Have the players been naughty? Bad stackers! Hang on, wasnt it like 2 ppl needed to stack elements in what's called 'jenkomancy'? 

 

Elements now 'stacked' that are maybe one voxel space into another element were permitted by the build helper using only the arrow keys.

 

Although a bit of a bug, many games have them and they get called 'tricks', players' not naughty..programmers' naughty, leave old constructs alone that were NOT 'jenkomancy'.

 

2 ppl logging in and off to place elements inside each other is obviously an exploit, what was permitted by the build helper^

 

Conclusion: bit more slack on the leash pls, i cant even put adjusters on my engines now... not in, on! xD

 

Also, 25 XS static constructs that only have say maybe a couple miners and a container are very different from 25 L full voxel buildings/space ships..?

 

 

Edited by Skyreaper
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