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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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3 hours ago, Shaman said:

I am all for a partial wipe where the economy is reset, quanta + talents are removed, but all elements on constructs are removed as well. That way old players still have the honeycomb hulls of their constructs as a base for rebuilding everything. I am a builder and this is the one I would be most happy with, as replacing elements is far less painful than replacing honeycomb.

 

Cool, so as a ship seller, everyone who bought a ship that I worked hard to build will essentially get it for free.  Then after the quanta wipe, I won't be able to make anything back, because everyone already has the ships I sell.  No thanks.

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10 minutes ago, StoneSpoons said:

Allow us only to retain the core blueprints.

So that your customers are screwed out of money but your not. If you can keep your CORE BP I should be able to keep the BP you sold to me as well.

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Wipe it clean and start everyone from zero. 

I walked away from this game after being an Alpha Ruby founder because of my frustration of previous wipes ruining all of my progress, as well as bugs and other issues hindering my progress. Years later, I came back and saw that I was back to zero, and others had massive constructs, ships and everything, and I came in basically having to relearn the game with zero resources, and most of my schematics and all my ships gone. 

It's definitely not fair that some would be left with this huge advantage while others are starting with nothing. 

With that said, you can't ask the community to keep dedicating time and effort to a project only to have it wiped away again and again, especially with the ridiculously snail pace at which you have set the game up to be able to do anything substantial. An individual player would have to work for weeks or months in order to build a starship under current conditions. I still believe this is a huge obstacle to play. Still, even if you don't change this... especially if you don't change this, asking the community to dedicate time and effort to harvest, build and create only to suffer another wipe is a bridge too far. 

If you are going to do a wipe, it needs to be the LAST wipe. 

Make it clear what you need to do in order to have a "release build" and once all those pieces are in place, do a final wipe and start over, never to wipe again. I left for years because of a wipe, and I'm not about to dedicate time fumbling around in the minutia of this game only to see my progress wiped out again. I am very unhappy with this game already, and this would really do me in, as I'm sure it would many others. Novaquark really needs to sit down, figure out what their endgame is with the development, and decide when they would be done with having to make any further wipes. 

Make one more final wipe, when you are 100% sure you are done with everything you need to do that would require a wipe, and then move forward. 

Otherwise you are asking way too much of your community, and you will lose what little support you have left. 


BTW, over 5 years later, and I'm still waiting on my physical rewards. 

It's hard not to feel scammed. 
 

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How does a wipe fit with the statement that the beta is supposed to be a soft release along with the sales pitch? For me it is obvious that it is about false advertising and fraud, it certainly feels exactly like that. What does their legal department have to say about this?

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Can I just keep my pocket rocket and one of the ships I bought, please. I'm just not a ship builder and I love all the ships I bought from the creators. Picking one will be super hard enough on me. I love piloting and I never ran more than one mission, ever...

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12 minutes ago, BlindingBright said:

I paid monthly for a persistent game. Are you telling me that was a lie?

My Thoughts Exactly. I don't have any of these so called Magical Beta Keys I paid each month for multiple accounts with normal hard earn cash. 

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14 minutes ago, mghtyred said:

It's definitely not fair that some would be left with this huge advantage while others are starting with nothing. 

Why is any different than any other MMO today, take Lost Ark, or EVE Online, Star Citizen just to name a few,  if you start one of those games today do they give a DAMN that your a NEW PLAYER I think NOT. And guess what there will be player that are bigger and better than you on day one. So this idea that getting into a game right now requires some magical wipe so we are all EQUAL is a stupid and unrealistic idea and not actually done in practice. 

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If you are going to do a wipe prior to release then do it right:

  1. Grandfather all those who have been subscribed to Beta for 3 months or more into the alpha program at a level commensurate the length of time they subscribed  (i.e. give them DACs)
  2. Give everyone eligible for DACs  or who preorders the release a starting pool of talent points (e.g.  30days worth of training).
  3. Preserve blueprints. Note: in practice most are obsolete or require a lot (months) of resources & industry development before they can be used.
  4. FIX the ECONOMY! A wipe will NOT do that by itself. I suggest:
    • Have all marketplaces on a given planet or moon reference the same pool of buy/sale orders.
    • Sale orders can be created at any marketplace like today.
    • Buy orders can be fullfilled anywhere on the planet (no flying back and forth just to get an item which can be crafted locally faster). Perhaps a new kind of dispenser could be created for use in static constructs.
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37 minutes ago, RugesV said:

NQ please make up my mind. Finish your internal discussions. 

Judging from how biased the wording of the blog post was, I think they already have made a decision.

 

But they also know how problematic (on many levels) that decision is, so we get this song and dance number complete with red herrings like removal of schematics to try and put a spin on it and appease the masses.

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Here are some of my thoughts:

 

For this game's long-term future, I believe a reset is essential. With a robust marketing round, more players should arrive, like at the start of Beta.

 

I believe that planet revamps, radical rebalancing, etc. will pay off much more in the long-term (for years), and draw in more players than otherwise.

 

Speaking years into release, the game will require a very high population to maintain the vision to its fullest extent. Regardless of whether you wipe or not, years in, you know you will require a robust marketing campaign to achieve this population, with a high percentage of the population being post-beta players,. I believe that years from now, the presence of all original Beta players will be fairly insignificant in the grand scope of the gameworld.

 

I think of it this way:

  • Reset: lose a portion of current players
  • No reset: maintain current players, however sacrifice many potential new players in the long-term of the game

So, either way, there is a loss of some sort. I believe of the two, a reset is the safer route.

 

The game seems to be hanging on for dear life and we need to take a risk to guarantee long-term success. I merely think that for this game's prosperity, a reset is necessary.

 

It may be unethical, however otherwise I'm fairly concerned for the future of the game.

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I do not support a full wipe. It will not solve most of the complaints of the people that want a full wipe.

 

This would be a kick in the face to everyone of us who has supported NQ from the beginning and trusted them not to wipe again. 

 

I can understand the need for a partial wipe. If this must occur for the greater good I am on board BUT I would like magic blueprints of some of my things that I can deploy once I begin again.  If I cant have something from beta transfer over, then what was it all for?  Why did I help test and play this game? Why did I submit numerous bug reports? Just to be treated like a brand new player? 

 

If there is a full wipe and we have to start over like new players with nothing, that would show us that NQ doesn't really care about all of the people that backed them and helped them launch this game.

 

 Please NQ, do not do a full wipe. Please show us you care about us by giving us magic blueprints to deploy after launch.

 

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Problem: Built up universe with a single solar system that is fairly built out without fresh real-estate for new players on release. Filled by players with built up resources.

Problem: Kickstarter promise of multiple solar systems.

Solution: Single shard universe with two+ solar systems that require a gate to travel between (or takes weeks/months of real world travel time) allowing for a "fresh" player experince. We were promised a universe, not a solar system. 


Don't do us dirty like this NQ.

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9 minutes ago, JayleBreak said:

Preserve blueprints. Note: in practice most are obsolete or require a lot (months) of resources & industry development before they can be used.

I think this is a major point that a lot of people are over looking, Advance Blueprints are pretty much useless for a long period of time if you are forced to start from zero. 

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8 minutes ago, Squidrew_ said:

I think of it this way:

  • Reset or partial: lose a portion of current players
  • No reset: maintain current players, however sacrifice many potential new players in the long-term of the game

So, either way, there is a loss of some sort. I believe of the two, a reset of some kind is the safer route.

 

This idea of a massive horde of potential players just waiting for a wipe is purely imaginary.

 

When was the last time you saw a game and thought, "That looks interesting. But it has a lot of established players already, and I don't want to be a noob, so I won't play that interesting game. But if they did a wipe, then I would start playing." I'm not saying that would never happen, but it's exceedingly rare. Most people who see an interesting game just start playing, and give little concern to other players who were there before them.

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I can't believe I have to write all this stuff.
 

We should always keep in mind that the decision we made was based on the information provided by the developers. After getting assured by the NQ that they would not wipe us, my friends and I decided to start playing. People I started playing with spread worldwide, which means they have different incomes in real life. Playing DU for some of them was worth 10 minutes of their work time in real life, and some had to work days to pay a yearly subscription. Money equals time and time equals money. The time equals your lifetime, your free time. Some of my mates decided to pay for the sub to benefit from having all this SP. These guys chose to pay for the game they are not playing to get something you won't take away. In other words, they believed you and decided to give you their time (as long as we got paid for the time we spent working in real life). Keeping that in mind, how would you describe your actions if you took their real-life assets from them? Because technically, the SP I have is a real-life asset.
 

I can't believe I have to write this.
 

You, guys, mentioned that's bad for new players. Okay, I decided to start playing EVE Online today. Should CCP wipe the whole server? There will always be new players who are in a position of weakness. In the end, we are paying to get SP and become stronger. Of course, you could say now, "EVE Online is not in betta," they could not wipe. In my opinion, if you said we're not going to wipe, you shouldn't. I said nothing about blueprints, and that's okay; feel free to wipe. However, if I should not take an advantage of other players, let's say, give us free playtime. I decided to play based on the number of skill points in-game and the number of skill points I acquired in a minute. I can foresee a scenario where you give us some free playtime, worth of how much we paid, but you still could decrease the number of SP we get a minute and the number of SP we need to level a skill. That's also won't be honest; the whole situation is absurd; this is simple as pie. You ask people to express their thoughts, but you can't measure how much these ppl brought to the DU. You already made a decision about wiping the day you said you wouldn't wipe anymore. I can't believe it's even a question.
 

The situation with blueprints looks like this: "Okay, people don't like the blueprints, and it actually doesn't work as it is supposed to because NPC sells it. Hmmm, what could we do? Create an in-game mechanics to produce, research, explore the blueprints, or remove them so people won't ever have to use the markets? Yeah, let's kill the sandbox game".

I have loads of things to say; probably, you won't even read this because it seems that you aim to fail the game. Or maybe you are looking for a way to stop the development legally; if you have no profits and you can't pay for the servers, that explains everything. But, as a person paying for Beta, it's okay for me if you stop the project by announcing it is over. Because now you want me to pay for your mistakes. Speaking about mistakes, telling people you are not going to wipe could be a mistake. But you are the one who should pay for it, not me. Likewise, the game design could be a mistake, but I shouldn't pay for this either.

As a customer with a complete T123 factory capable of producing anything, I'm even okay with wiping all in-game assets but don't touch my talents.
 

The best choice for me: okay, wipe it, but don't give me SP; give me the skills I had. I don't care how many skill points a minute we will have after the wipe or how much skills will be worth (in SP); I need my skills back. That would be honest to people who supported you. And that is not hurting the new players because when a person joins the game, he understands that he's new here. It's not like, "Okay, I'm buying the game. OMFG, I'M NEW HERE AND SOME PEOPLE HERE PREVIOUSLY PLAYED WHAT I'VE DONE?!". So please make a new player experience acceptable, don't make us pay for it.

 

Upd:
I forgot to mention that I'll stop playing DU with both of my accounts. I also would demand a refund.

Edited by Vulpeculae
Grammar
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I believe that there should be a full wipe of the game, players like myself who have multiple paid up accounts or single paid accounts should be given bonus skill points equivalent to maybe half their paid time, this should be easy to apply and would at least give a small bonus to those of us who have already spent a lot of money on the game.

 

Thanks

Guy

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I invested in years ahead of subscription into this game cus of the promise of no wipe... If wipe, I have to demand my money back, due to broken promise that made me invest in the first place. I hate starting over the endless grinding to just get a few elements for the first decent ship. If a wipe I'm done for good. And as mentioned I will demand a refund!!

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Good Evening

my opinion on a full wipe would be if we can hold our Core Blueprints / Blueprints (No magical Blueprints please)we would be able to restore our constructs if the server is far enough in economy conditions on the market and would not harm new players and we would not loosing all the time to create our Blueprints maybe a good way to start for new players but i have to say too the most real money investment would be the talent points we have already trained the last years.

But Do A full wipe and give us all our talent points back it would be an unfair advantage against all new players that came in at release too but wipe all Talentpoints would maybe unfair to all veteran/old players too maybe we can discuss an way between both lines or let me say if you want to make an full wipe for release give the old players only their Core Blueprints / Blueprints back reset all money and talent points  and the complete Universe so that we all start from the beginning on Haven but add an Talent Point Refund timer to all old players Accounts ingame with an timer of 12 months or 15 months so then we could start the economy from the beginning fresh or old player have same chance to reach something in the first 12 or 15 months and all the all Talents points we already had payed for / trained would be not lost just delayed and after one year after release the new players should be known if they want to play longer or not.

 

I think this would be the best way for and full wipe same starting conditions for new and old players.The other thing are the Schematics for me i must say i can understand the player which are leaving after 0.23 because the schematics make the industriy a bit more harder then before but i think the Schematics are a good thing for PVE long term play because we cant build everything from the beginning with just having 5 industry machines in our bases so if you want to remove the schematics its maybe will be end in pre 0.23 time where everyone can build everything and your markets will not be stay in a flow or maybe never growing.

 

And without an working ingame economy the game will have be an problem again.

 

The other thing or let me say problems which my friends from other games have with the game is still the PVP lost everything thing and whats a reason the won´t play DU. DU is a great Building game maybe the best at the moment on market but loosing ships too other players is still hard because of the investment of build time of our constructs / making money to buying all parts yes going to PVP is at own risk but if new players loosing their first ships to Pirates they maybe quit because of loosing too much because not everyone play in an 20 players + org (or want to play in such an big org) so maybe no protection available for them to risk a ship or only going out of safe zone with small, ugly ,cheap ships maybe still the best way for trying roid mining. 

 

Dont know why you want to create an EVE Online 2.0 out of and good Game.

So i think the game still needs alot more of content inside the Safezone that players which not want to smashing heads with others have more long term play content or maybe just changing some of the PVP rules so that only Ships can fire on armed ships because if maybe one Group can control the high tier ore by hunting for unarmed haulers if they are big enough and the smaller orgs will leaving the game behind(quitting) because of not getting enough high Tier ore to grow and an Player which not having fun will quit like in all other games too.

 

So if you want to have a good balance of players the game need a lot more of PVE content and PVP Balancing too. So that both Player Sides can finding ways to making enough money the PVE players needs more ways to earn Quantas inside the safezone so that they can pay their tax and can buy high tier ore to grow in industries if they want (but please not more Alt missusing stuff like doing missions with 20 Alts / Players on one ship i would only allow one mission package per ship(dockedships included) so that every player need to fly personally to the delivery point / planet (yes i know more alts in a game means more real money income but this will always splits communities too (EvE Online 2.0 effect) or bringing smaller groups to leave the game)) the PVP Players can still make good Money by selling the high tier Ore at the market in Safezone.

 

And we allready not know what will happen if you want to start the Planetary PVP too outside of the safezone then maybe one group will be starting destroy / overtook all other players Bases just for fun when the other players are offline and thats an other thing why my friends not want play a game with such PVP rules (its like starting Stronghold Kingdoms Online as new player after your safe Bubble ends your Game is Over because new players there always will be hunted/looted).

 

Best regards

 

Corgan7 

Edited by Corgan7
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5 minutes ago, Corgan7 said:

Good Evening my opinion on a full wipe would be if we can hold our Core Blueprints / Blueprints (No magical Blueprints please)we would be able to restore our constructs if the server is far enough in economy conditions on the market and

*snip*

start the Planetary PVP too outside of the safezone then maybe one group will be starting destroy / overtook all other players Bases just for fun when the other players are offline and thats an other thing why my friends not want play a game with such PVP rules (its like starting Stronghold Online as new player after your safe Bubble ends your Game is Over because new players there always will be hunted/looted).

 

Best regards

 

Corgan7 

Jesus man, the enter key, do you know what it is? Holy wall of text. 

 

 

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I've been doing some thinking... If NQ does a full wipe, except talent points. Existing players would have a HUGE advantage! My main can perfectly produce most T1 (Basic) Elements and is getting close to perfectly building T2 (Uncommon) Elements, the same is true for Atmo and Space Fuel. Do some math and see how much of a difference that makes compared to a fresh player. That's not only an issue with quanta, but with resource consumption rate, and advancement rate. I can make stuff faster, be earlier done with a ship, get earlier to missioning, trading, mining, etc. Grab land earlier, start scanning tiles earlier, etc.

 

My main has almost perfect passive mining talents, my other three characters also have almost perfect passive mining talents (except the handling talents, need only one char for those). Not only do I get more per autominer, I also get a TON more mining charges per week. My secondary has perfect placement talents for vehicles, combine that with the perfect flying skills of my third and (almost) fourth char. That would mean I could lift a lot more, a lot faster, combine that with the limitations of the max speed in space, that is also a huge advantage over newbies.

 

That's why keeping the talent points is a bad idea if the objective is to equalize the difference between new and existing players...

 

But there's something you can't realistically block, the knowledge on how to do stuff effectively in DU, what you should look at, how, why, when, etc. The only way to counter this is to massively change the game on launch or just start blocking existing players. Keep in mind that the players and corps that where playing in Alpha had a HUGE advantage over us Beta starters, they became massive fast. For some reason people keep forgetting this...

 

The problem with this is, there is no solution, not even an imperfect solution. The cat is out of the bag.

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Beta is Beta I fully expect changes during it but once you make the promise of no more wipes and your saying your going to wipe  it....what does thAT say to me or anyone else about this company.. All you have is your word and if you can not keep that then what do you have to go on?  Nothing.

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