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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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Just now, Klothilde said:

Why would everyone start from scratch with a total wipe, but not the manufacturers who would keep their blueprint?

Why only favor these players?

because blueprints are beautiful.

I can make the same ship withing 5 hours, the same functionality.

But beauty for it cost me 5 weeks.

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I am Vyvacia

The single player who placed about 80 cores over about 7 tiles for making a race track on feli. I have been playing since Alpha.... I am waiting an entire month Just to be able to keep the cores with only 20 slots for constructs left in my org que. I play with a larger org besides that personal one that owns the race track but the idea of having them donate construct points is just SILLY they want what they want and for the most part theres a lot of solo play in a game like DU.

So.

As I look at purchasing a ruby account from someone I wonder on your direction NQ.

 

It will take almost another month to keep the constructs youre talking about nerfing and dont even think about trying to tell me you would bp them all.

its a massive project but ultimately its difficult and long. just look at how you cored out the area to make the planet look all ugly and now i have to reterra....

I honestly do not know what to say about you wiping the game.... you cant. youve backed yourself into a corner.... AGAIN....

 

Schematics disappearing? HAHAH

I have spent soo much money on fixing all of that and automating that ....

see why would I start writing lua for this?

I again understand you all are wanting to provide a better FUE

but let us as the players do that. we like to play because we still can and we have all of these beautiful things to show for it.

 

I do not find the idea of planet revamps important really..... for why? diversifying planets isnt really necessarry.

Are you going to change ore distrib again?

 

SO many ?s but I dont write this game......

I vote no wipe.

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10 minutes ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

HOWEVER, don't take our talent points! We paid for those. They aren't resources. Taking them is basically deleting our character/account. Whatever advantage they provide, we're owed it. If talent points go, I'll go.

Exactly we paid for those damn talent points! (in time, money, and dedication)

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Thank you for the update. Its good to know you are also considering player feedback before making your decision. Like many others, I want DU to achieve long term success. Unfortunately I do not have enough experience/information to constructively comment on how this particular issue will influence that. So instead I will just extend my thanks to all the NQ staff who are actively taking part in this debate. Any employee who is willing to speak up and offer their personal/professional insights is worth their weight in gold and I hope your respective supervisors recognize that.

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Wipe or no, I don't care at this point, but for the love of god if you're going to do a full wipe then please just obliterate the entire Alioth system and finally implement that fancy new planet tech you demo'd (and then abandoned) near the end of Alpha.  Planets looked like they were going to be far more interesting to explore over the boring 'noise' generated planets....

 

Just my 2 cents.  If you're gonna wipe, give us some amazing looking planets to explore.

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1 hour ago, Pesusieni said:

Im struggling to understand NQ , and do you understand even your own reason for doing things?

Sure the addition of Schematics was loss of players and not well received, but without a system like Schematics there are no brakes on anybodies capabilities to mass produce.

 

I do remember the days well before schematics how everybody had their own factory, and nobody needed to visit a market, DO note also with the addition of Mining units a world without schematics would be like everybody is playing factorio that is easy mode, there is no need to use the market, except maybe change my Bauxite to Hematite and thats it

 

Also i have been playing this game under the original promise of no Wipe, that was even the reason when some Economic exploits happened some of us requested a server roll back

 

Do a wipe, and i will wipe my account

I do recall the same BETA is forever promise

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full wipe or no wipe....

 

keep Blueprints good for builders they "only" loose Time

Ship Builders : they loose time and the possibility to sell their ship again, cause everyone has the bluebrints already.

Idustrials loose all Time, Quanta, Schematics

 

If full Wipe :

give The Ppl who payed accounts free play Time for the lost Talent points.

Dont revamp Schematic or make Schematics Player craftable (for Resources e.x.), and not Endless, so you have to get a new Schematic after quite a time.
And insert a Consumption for the economy!

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16 minutes ago, FrozenFace said:

(like 1 for core, all factories can read it from core schematics storage)

Yea I don't understand why we need 100 of the same schematics for 100 of the same machine, it I buy the schematics them all my machine requiring it should have access to it Not a 1 for 1.

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26 minutes ago, MukkBarovian said:

They don't want to remove the way schematics work from the game. They want to remove specific schematics from the game. Many months ago there was an unintended NPC firesale where anyone online for those 30 mins could buy schematics at 1% of the usual price. Billionaires were made that day. 

 

The server was not reset after it was fixed. NQ did not follow up on chasing down those schematics and removing them. 

This is also very true and a real issue if this is the case this isnt our fault they need to go and figure that out and should have long ago but they cant. because....... the damage is irreversible after the schematics are sold. but I do wish I coulda bought one a dem beacons.

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Wipe or No wipe. Let talk about a few things. 

 

1)  Schematics - I think these need to stay, as other people have said already removing these would be a mistake. We would go back to pre 0.23 where everyone was just making whatever they wanted. There would be no need to be competitive in pricing or any need for player made markets like gottchar and brights or the many others. The issue here was the implementation of them, the cost and the location. So if you want to fix schematics, fix those things. 

2)   Constructs -Voxel masters that have spent hundred of hours should be able to keep their creations minus the elements or auto converted to a bp

3)  Factories - Factory wizards  like the voxel masters have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours in their factories. Should not have to feel like they are being punished because they focused on factories. There needs to be a way to compensate those people. 

 

Wiping.

 

- Doing no wipe at all.

 

I dont believe that this is an option as this point. There are new things coming to the game, and if it solves old problems then it should be done. However you should stop making promises that you are not able to keep. This is gonna leave a sour taste in the mouths of every backer, alpha and beta key person. 

 

- Making a partial wipe

 

Same as doing no wipe, it doesn't alleviate the issues  and only keeps X players happy. 

 

- Having a “legacy” live server and a new live server

 

How about NO. Like you already stated this would split the community and lets be honest you guys already have a hard enough time with one server. 

 

Full Wipe 

 

Probably the best solution to fix issues and alleviate any problems.

  •  Schematics should stay,  just address and fix the issue with them. - location and cost 
  • Find a way to compensate the people that have built massive factories and spent hundred of hours there 
  • Allows constructs to come over minus the elements or convert them to basic elements. 

 

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Right around the time of the schematic firesale, in EVE CCP made an oopsie and event sites were dropping Nightmare BPOs instead of nightmare BPCs. CCP quickly told their players that this was an error, to not use the BPO, and within a day or so had removed them from the game and replaced them with the correct item.

 

I remember watching that and watching NQ's total silence for the matter, watching it never get resolved. It was a bad feeling.

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I am against a full wipe for many reason:

  • The first thing we ear in the trailer is that this game is about building a new civilization. What sort of civilization can be created if every x time you are doing a wipe? Because doing one time open the opportunity to do it again.
  • From the beginning we have been told that there would not be any wipe. We have spent time creating structure and cities that will never been recreated.
    I have multiple current project on which I have spent a ton of hours:
    • Factory (1 month to build it, ~2 months to farm and increase it)
    • Statue of liberty (25% done and already more than 1000h)
    • Atlas Museum (at least 100h spent by Infidel and 20h by me) keep track of the incredible creations that have been made
  • A wipe will not solve any issue, it will just delay the current issues by some months.
  • A wipe will promote casual player ( I have nothing against them ), because why will you spend a ton of time in a game that can be reset anytime.
  • A wipe will remove instantly all creation from https://du-creators.org/ 
  • All the history of DU (good or bad) will be reset.
  • A lot of friendship will be lost, some people connecting time to time will no more connect.
  • Content creator will have nothing to show on their video and so a lot of promotion for the game will be lost.

 

"Unsatisfying for players wanting to discover the game and start with a more polished version of the game."
Someone that want to discover the game always enjoy to see big thing that can be done in the game and if he become more advanced in the game, the game experience will not change from what we have now.

 

"Does not allow to remove Schematics properly."
You can remove them, no worry we will be able to handle our factories. I will make our life 10x easier. And for those people that have spend a ton of money (as me) in schematics, we have at least already our factory ready.

 

"Does not allow to revamp the old planets properly."
The old planets are OK like they are, just add more planet in between them. That will increase activity between the planets that are too far away from each other. (~4h travel time from Ion to Alioth who will become longer with the new speed mechanism for hauler ~6h)

 

"Does not allow the rebalancing of the economy properly."
You can remove all quanta it will not change the game mechanism, your mission system is broken. A wipe will not change it, it will still be broken.

 

"Potentially keeping bugs related to very old Constructs."
I am pretty sure that the quantity of very old construct that "bug" is limited, you should be able to contact their creator or put a timer on them as you do when we park in Aphilia tile.

 

 

If a full wipe append I want to have an opportunity to be refund for all months I will not play (because I will not play the game anymore)


King regards

Screenshot_10.png

Screenshot_11.png

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NQ needs to focus on scale, bugs, and polish. Settle this BS about a wipe quickly, move on, and make sure DU can actually support a release at scale.

 

I'm skeptical it can...and more skeptical the more stuff they change before release. Rip out schematics? Okay, but then you need to replace them or understand the performance implications. 

 

Have they even tested the latest version at scale? They obviously didn't went they rolled out public beta -- will they actually learn anything from the past, or repeat the same mistakes?

 

The more time they invest in changes, the less time they have to test and fix the game's performance and scalability, improve polish, and fix bugs.

 

I don't think they should wipe for that reason alone -- they don't have time. Even if only focusing on scale/bugs/polish...that'll take them months and months because they have a lot of debt built up in those departments. 

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1 hour ago, Zarcata said:

So if a wipe is coming: please NQ be fair and tell us when it will come, that is, when do you plan to release the game? This year or next. If there is a wipe, I would pause my subscriptions accordingly, as it makes no sense for me to continue playing. Then I'll wait until the release....

 

 

There shouldn't actually be a partial wipe. Someone will benefit from this. So NQ can only make a full wipe and lied about their promises.
And a complete wipe because a few players have exploited is absolutely unfair.
Many players ( including me ) have invested a lot of time to achieve what they currently have. Spending  many hours of mining underground, mining meteorites, and many many hours of flying missions and earning quantas for schematics.

If a complete wipe comes, I will uninstall this game and cancel the subscription.

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Honestly, I'm fine with a full wipe (while leaving blueprints behind) as far it's a fair deal with everyone.

 

- Giving a (lucky) few players a head-start by keeping stuff is not fair and probably won't fix anything. The event idea where resources (and maybe even talents) are multiplied is a good idea though and would make the first days definitely "hot" both for old and new players.

 

- For really iconic projects, maybe offer their creators the chance of donating them to the community. The construct is carried over to the new server, but is owned by Aphelia and is placed somewhere in District zone. Basically, it becomes something for use by the community.

 

- Regarding removal of schematics, it's a good idea. The implementation simply doesn't work well for early game and even creating the most basic industry items that are not part of nanocrafter, such as Refiners, simply isn't possible for the first days. You are literally left afk-ing on your base while stuff crafts, which not only is annoying but will probably turn off lots of new players.

 

- Instead of schematics, why not implement something similar to Rust's item reasearch tree? Basically, we could "learn" how to make a certain item in two ways: the first would be "the tree", you unlock items progressively in a tree fashion, and they get progressively more expensive, it could work similar to how talents work today, maybe you could even earn points by crafting items (each batch yields a certain amount), etc. The alternative is a consumable similar to a schematic, but could be consumed by the player to learn that specific item recipe. This could even allow for a new type of gameplay where players would "sell" their services of setting industry machines to a certain recipe, similar to how there's people selling Mining Unit charges nowadays.

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I don't think giving people the schematics of their creation is enough.
A ton of people have not created construct but have supported creators by buying their creation and for that they have spend a lot of hours gathering quanta. These player will loose everything.

That's also something against a full wipe.

Edited by Leniver
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Thinking that release would come with NO wipe of any kind is ignorant at best. But there are far too many simple solutions to resolve almost all issues that were brought up


Quanta imbalance - Yes, there have been some people that took advantage of the mission system to amass "great wealth". But thats hardly wrong. Thats what makes an open economy work! Some people are supposed to be rich, while others will remain poor. Everyone in the middle forms the backbone of the games economy. 


Schematics - The way they were introduced wasn't very well thought out. But end result more clearly defined a relatively static value to literally everything. It is abundantly clear that the economy is more richly diverse than it ever was pre-schematic. Removing them is a mistake! But if they are stupid enough to remove them then the path is simple... refund every sale of a schematic thats happened since the introduction of schematics


Planets being "unpolished" - We have dealt with this half a dozen times through the life of DU. A planet reset isnt hard to do.. its going to happen with a full wipe too, so why pretend its something magic? Perform your voxel reset and ore redistribution. Return all constructs to their owners that have a miner on them as magic BPs and move on. It shouldnt be terribly complicated to have any underground constructs auto dig themselves out too.

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Full wipe minus blueprints and talent points.

Older players will still have a massive advantage as a thank you for their dedication and time spent in the form of talent points. But the world itself will be a blank canvas for everyone.

 

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2 hours ago, Kurock said:

At beginning of beta it was announced "no more wipes except as required for updates" (like the mining update that was done).  So if NQ do decide to wipe, it would be yet another promise broken.  This also completely ignores that people have been paying monthly to play...

 

This. We were told at the beginning of Beta that it was a soft launch and there wouldn't be a wipe unless absolutely necessary, and we've been investing our time into the game based on this. I have spend hundreds, and hundreds of hours gathering resources and building, based on the knowledge that NQ would do everything they could to avoid a wipe. 

A quanta wipe to re-balance the economy, is one thing, but wiping all our constructs and hard earned resources is a real kick in the nuts.

 

As far as re-freshing Alioth with new planet tech; you've already refreshed once without deleting constructs. Can this not be done again with the new planet tech, keeping the same basic geometry of the planet?

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How much WORK or EFFORT I have put into this game is irrelevant, and there are very few who can argue they have put in more time and effort into building then I have.

I have no expectation of work product, in this or any other game. Nor is there any legal right to it, in this or any other game. Games have run for years, only to shut down overnight with no warning. No expectation of compensation, no compensation will ever come.

 I have my knowledge, and if the Stroke I had in January didn't wipe that, then for sure NQ can't.

 

All I truly care about is that we hit the ground at release with solid:
1. Lore/Cannon for it all. Write a damn story to explain it.

2. A functional communication system. (long neglected and def NOT ready for release)

3. The ability to choose how much audio and visual "noise" we want the game to display. IE a functional UI with settings controls. (long neglected and def NOT ready for release)

4. A well thought out plan on how to start an economy, and how to adjust it when it goes out of wack (which it will)

5. A strong and robust set of game mechanics that are FUN to play, and prioritize those who want CONSTRUCT a civilization over those who what to hack, slay, and steal. 

 

give me that, and I'm willing to start over building shacks and scooters.

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40 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

It's scary how much players here would be happy with a partial wipe, if only these players are always allowed to keep their own advantage in the process....

 

True.

 

Objectively speaking, based on the comunication so far you woudl eexpewct a wipe to happen as not announcing a "no wipe" makes no sense. But this is NQ so who knows..

 

As I am certain they will do a wipe, they will really not get away with a ful lwipe due to the fact that they started charging subs at beta and especially talent points are no longer an option to wipe, putting them back in the pool is fine as players can respec. Taking away talents will destroy the value of the sub entirely so that really is not an option.

So resetting the universe, markets and erasing  quanta yes. Talents will needs to go back to the pool and players get a bleuprint for their constructs excluding container contents.

 

Problem there is that many will just place valuable items on constructs if NQ provides "magic" blueprints so BP will be regular ones.

 

And I see no issue at all with that as it presents a massive advantage to existing players once NQ wipes, which I do expect to happen shortly before "release".
 

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