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10 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

I know it's generally considered a good idea to rip the Band-Aid off as quickly as possible to minimize the pain, but in this case i think the wound may be festering while you're sitting around waiting for the most profitable moment to make your announcement.

 

If the choice is motivated by profit....someone isn't doing their math correctly.

 

Waiting until right before release (for example) is a great way to make the entire beta program useless insofar as Athena would be the least tested update since public beta launched.

 

I think I read somewhere that the best way to release bug-free software is to test it as little as possible. The logic is sound: "if i can't see the bugs, they can't see me". 

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Thank you dear NQ team for leaving a small comment. It will definitely not be an easy decision but you have received really good suggestions from the community. In principle, you would now only need to select and weigh what makes the least harm to the future of DU, old and new hares, technically necessary, etc pp. Personally, I have after all the posts and suggestions a golden middle ground together. But since none of us knows what you really need / want to do, it's hard to see through.

So to be honest I'm a little frustrated to be put on the back burner here. It's hard for me to find motivation to continue with the existing projects because I don't know what's going to happen. And I think that's how a lot of people here feel about "keeping the lights on".

 

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This whole wipe discussion and lack of decision/action is just killing the little that remains of the game in its actual state. Last time I logged into DU the game felt ridiculously dead, nobody around and even the market was dead, only buy orders for T1 in District 6 were bot orders. WTF?

 

I had plans and wanted to do some more work but I simply gave up for the time being and went to play Star Citizen instead. If NQ goes for a wipe then there's no point in doing more grind and stuff, if they don't go for a wipe it will be fine and I can just come back later anyways. I'm sure other players are in the same boat too, and being really honest, the more the world feels dead, the more chances for a wipe to happen, since after all, why would NQ keep all stuff around costing them servers if nobody's playing?

 

I don't care anymore whether you wipe or not, just ffs make a decision and go with it, if this keeps going for another month+ I'll just unsub and put my money somewhere else. The game tech is cool and all, but the lack of management decisions make NQ look so unprofessional...

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I fully understand the situation NQ is facing for their project. They want it to be successful at start. But they cant make it right for anyone.

An elephant on the wire as I used to say

 

Where is the common denominator ... to keep most of the vets and attract the potential new players ?

I wish you @NQ to make some good choices there. 

 

If I'm loosing all my work, its a terrible thing - but if you give me some good motivation to start over again, I'm fine.

 

Thumbs up @NQ

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Imho, there's no sence of podcasts to answer questions while the Big Question still goes unanswered - wipe/not wipe.

 

Its the toughest issue to propose an answer for, and whatever decision is made will most likely upset one half of the community or the other.

 

But players are becomming unmotivated to play the game in face of an unsure future, this is killing the game.

 

So, address the elephant in the room before the elephant drives everyone out of the room.

 

Post your vision of what you believe is the best alternative, but make it clear that it is proposal, not final, and still open to changes, so players won't start jumping out of windows.

Then give us a few days to absorb the impact, overcome our cycle of Denial/Anger/Bargaining/Depression/Acceptance, and provide you feedback. 

 

Ajust whatever is possible in your proposal, rinse, repeat. A few rounds of proposal and feedback might help drive the issue in the right direction.

 

Reading many of the topic comments, two things seems to be NOT negotiable - keeping talent points and player construct blueprints. It's a start, build up from there.

 

Best of luck!

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11 hours ago, blazemonger said:

While true, NQ has shown to not be able or willing to take ownership of these things and just tends to keep "discussing" it until the very last moment to them make a call which generally will take 3-4 further iterations to somewhat work.

 

Ah yes of course, I forgot about this part.  We still have to go through the phase where they make a decision, a lot of people get cross so then they change or nerf their decision, making a lot of different people cross instead.

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BTW is it wrong that I keep wanting to use the question document linked above to ask 'will there be a wipe at launch'?  At least it would pass the time while they're bike shedding about other things.

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12 minutes ago, DarkEvader said:

Its the toughest issue to propose an answer for, and whatever decision is made will most likely upset one half of the community or the other.

 

 

At this point it's not tough any more, they have burned all good will with inaction and deceptive post that has little to no context.

+ At this point the player base is so small it doesn't matter either way what happens. Loses will be takes, how they come out on the flipside is more interesting, will they kick development up in to 2nd gear, communicate clearly or just the same old same old. That will make or break what remains

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1 hour ago, CyberDay said:

Ah yes, another post announcing there will be an announcement in the future, I'm sure that will calm everyone's hearts. 


DU Development Roadmap:

June 1st - Come out with a podcast ignoring questions, promising answers in the future.
July 1st - Make another forum post stating how much they have learned based on our feedback.
August 1st - Make a news letter repeating the difficulty of making this decision.
September 1st - Make another podcast talking in more circles about upcoming due date to make a decision.
December 1st - Decide to wipe.
Feb 1st of 2023 - Actually do the wipe and take the servers down for 2-3 weeks.
March 1st - Talk about the difficulty of resetting the servers.
June 1st of 2023 - Open the servers post wipe...  

P.S. Charge for subscriptions the whole time. 🤣

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For all the complaints, DU's playerbase is surprisingly loyal...NQ has had to try really hard to drive its players away between few and poorly designed updates, a lack of communication, and sometimes-rudeness when they do communicate. 

 

They will be in for a big surprise on release when players aren't so interested in posting their complaints and simply unsub and roll their eyes at the $9.99 they wasted. 

 

It isn't just the lack of progress in making a simple choice that has already been discussed to death on the forums for years...it's the time wasted in learning how to run the game and manage the community for release. Update that brick constructs and poor communication will only make already-bad churn rates that much worse.

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16 hours ago, Creator said:

DU Development Roadmap:

I believe you missed the Memo that Athena was the last major patch for release.

What makes this all borderline funny  is that NQ is likely had a hard deadline for release maybe 3-4 months from now and still claims they have not yet made the decision on a wipe.

 

 

16 hours ago, blundertwink said:

For all the complaints, DU's playerbase is surprisingly loyal..

Some of us are stil lhoping for a miracle, although it's pretty much clear by now it's not going to happen. 

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I'd rather have NQ postponing the release and focusing on actually fixing their game, making big changes to stuff such as better Lua APIs and stuff like that, instead of releasing DU in the current state. Even if they made everyone 100% sure that there would be a wipe on release or after a certain patch, but that's their last chance of actually doing anything like that before release. After releasing there's no going back and wiping or doing major changes, as it will make people much more angry than they already are.

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3 hours ago, DarkEvader said:

Reading many of the topic comments, two things seems to be NOT negotiable - keeping talent points and player construct blueprints. It's a start, build up from there.

EVERYTHING is negotiable... I've been saying that BPs are a huge advantage for those that spent time on them instead of other pursuits. There's a ton of other reasons, why it's unfair on many different levels to keep only that resource. The only resource that isn't impacted by misuse and only by subscription time is the Talent Points... But those give a huge advantage over new players... How important is that (to NQ)? If NQ removes my Talent Points, I'm out. Anything else... Depends on actual implementation...

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1 hour ago, Wolfram said:

I'd rather have NQ postponing the release and focusing on actually fixing their game

No.

 

By the time they are done, I've lost all interest in playing their game. The longer they keep us in a holding pattern, the greater the chances that people just won't be here when they finally wipe/launch... This continued Limbo is loosing more people then any wipe or no-wipe scenario!

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7 hours ago, blundertwink said:

For all the complaints, DU's playerbase is surprisingly loyal...NQ has had to try really hard to drive its players away between few and poorly designed updates, a lack of communication, and sometimes-rudeness when they do communicate. 

 

They will be in for a big surprise on release when players aren't so interested in posting their complaints and simply unsub and roll their eyes at the $9.99 they wasted. 

 

It isn't just the lack of progress in making a simple choice that has already been discussed to death on the forums for years...it's the time wasted in learning how to run the game and manage the community for release. Update that brick constructs and poor communication will only make already-bad churn rates that much worse.

 

Loyal? Maybe a crazy small select few. Every single person I played alpha with has long since gone and said they don't ever envision coming back. Every single person I played with. 

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The longer these "discussions" go on the more worried I am that NQ will choose to move away from an economic wipe and taint the game in to release candidate. This will cause more damage down the road. 

 

The time to avoid a full economic wipe was months ago. That window has long since past. 

 

I agree with most here. Rip the damn bandaid. Blueprints are a red line. Talents are a sweetner. 

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Posted (edited)

its not about a difficult decision. the fact is you have minimal chance of success whatever decision you make. why is that? the western economy is collapsing(by design) as we speak and no thats not putins fault.

 

here is what i think

-very bad time for a subscription based niche game while (almost)everybody is getting poor.

-you designed this niche game to be a massive multiplayer game. means you need alot more players and you wont get them without free2play or atleast a onetime purchase (no sub)

-you listen to a few old babys who cry everyday about a wipe and losing their talent points. these people think they are somehow important because the are here since alpha. you know it better than me, those people are a tiny minority and they are not important at all. give them some kind of unique skin or whatever and thank them for testing your game. thats all they deserve.

-your game is far from being finished, all you can do right now is going into steam early access to get a new wave of players and ofc to get some money. i say wipe and then wipe again at the end of early access. after early access, official full release and never wipe again.

-here are some positive news: your game looks good compared to star citizen, i mean SC is probably the biggest joke/scam in gaming history but hey atleast chris roberts is rich and happy. elite dangerous community is also not happy. starbase had a pretty bad start and lost lots of players.

-your game is the pretty good from a technology standpoint. the combination of building, flying, physics and details like heat and aerodynamics is the best on the market if you ask me. (ok kerbal space program is better but its singleplayer focus). performance is an issue, everybody knows that

-planets need improvement. planets/moons like sancturary and alioth look dead and boring. the starting planet needs to be awesome to impress new players from the beginning.

-space is empty and boring. i know thats realistic but this game is not about realism. freelancer had the best spacemap: nebulas, nebulas with storms, radioactive clouds/nebulas, nebulas that effect your sensor/radar/shiphull.  lots of hidden bases and trading stations, lots of hidden treasure like unique weapons. jumpholes, npc ships and so much more.

-most "gamers" dont even know that dual universe exists. your small youtube channel is def not enough to spread the word.

 

Edited by Niemand
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Dear NQ Team,

 

Actually I didn't want to write to you, because I think what's the point of my opinion. However, I have now decided to do so because I am at a point where I am currently losing motivation to play. Unfortunately.

 

Basically, we all know that a wipe is necessary. We just don't want to admit it. :(
How else are we going to get the community to the necessary size so that DU becomes profitable and development continues? With the current player base that won't work and in the end we will have lost what we love so much as a community. Us and the game...
I have some people around me who have clearly said, with so many changes, exploits and possibilities that are no longer there, we won't get back in without a wipe. I think this is a pyschological thing and cannot be dispelled with any arguments. I think that's how a lot of new potential players will feel. 

 

Why is this a problem? 
New players will be happy to start DU. Then they realise that there are other players in DU who can produce EVERYTHING and dominate the market through talents, quanta and mega factories. And then? New players will be even more frustrated when they realise that they are making these players and corps even richer and stronger with their purchases on the market and, above all, that they themselves do not see any possibility with their goods on the market. It will most likely escalate when they hear, well, we have filled up our endless stock with meganodes and there were one or two exploits back then. We can't pretend this is normal in an MMO... the situation at release is completely different. New players expect to find at least similar conditions and the number of players will be massively higher if we offer them. Without a wipe, NQ's real money invested in the marketing campaign will be wasted. After a strong start, comes the collapse. DU dies quietly. Honestly, I want a large player base, to play DU actively in the next few years and preferably with as many players as possible, because that is the only way to ensure DU's further development. We need a strong start and we have to manage to keep the new players in the community, that's the only way to make it happen. I am convinced that the chances are better with a wipe than without. The project is at a critical point in my opinion and needs the money of new players to offer us more content.

 

I am a relatively small player, so the wipe won't hurt me much. But I understand all those who have invested their heart, time and money here for years and so I ask NQ for the following: offer these important pillars of the community fancy stuff (maybe not necessarily a game advantage) so that we can admire their great work again after the release. DU live and fall with these creative and great people!!! How about a special avatar, which no one else can get in the course of his DU life or a not exaggerated headstart. Please decide the wipe soon and present in the same time your ideas how you want to show the existing Commuity the appropriate recognition.

 

But...
Before you do a wipe and send our beloved DU into release. Please take care of the economy. Doing away with schematics will not be the solution here. On the contrary!  Many in the community have already mentioned it. We need a functioning cycle between production and consumption. You (NQ) really have to sit down again and work on this topic intensively!  If you don't succeed, we will most likely run into the same issues we see now. 

 

- Products in abundance
- Everyone produces their own needs
- No one has to buy anything because nothing breaks or needs to be maintained

 

Just a suggestion:
What if we link the number of goods produced to a talent and no longer to schematics that have to be bought? Learn Industrial I so you can operate 10 machineries, level II for 30 etc.? Components could possibly be linked to specific talents as well. I think this way we can regulate the amount of goods and strongly encourage cooperative play. Specialisations and playing a subcontractor could be realised then. That needs hard work on balancing. So please start asap with these thoughts!

 

Please take a closer look at the topic of the economy before the release and in the best case involve the community. I have already read so many great ideas here from greate people. Another win for the release would be, in my opinion, PVE content (pirates / alien hunt or similar). For all those who can't warm up to PVP.

 

Kind Regards & thanks for listening
Steffstoff

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13 hours ago, blazemonger said:

Some of us are stil lhoping for a miracle, although it's pretty much celar by now it's not going to happen. 

It took me years, but I am now finally into the last stage of 'grief'. And that is acceptance that NQ will never be able to change and save this game, and so I am done.

 

So while I will continue poking at and making fun of NQ at ever opportunity in the forums, because frankly they deserve it. I will not be playing the game any more.

 

And maybe, just maybe half a year or so after release, if the game is still here I will login in and take a look again. But that is a big fat maybe, because congratulations NQ. It took a while but you finally made it so that I now have ZERO confidence in your ability to make and manage a functional game. Good job!

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

It took me years, but I am now finally into the last stage of 'grief'. And that is acceptance that NQ will never be able to change and save this game, and so I am done.

 

So while I will continue poking at and making fun of NQ at ever opportunity in the forums, because frankly they deserve it. I will not be playing the game any more.

 

And maybe, just maybe half a year or so after release, if the game is still here I will login in and take a look again. But that is a big fat maybe, because congratulations NQ. It took a while but you finally made it so that I now have ZERO confidence in your ability to make and manage a functional game. Good job!

 

 

 

 

I can relate a lot eventhough my reaction is a bit different... I'm starting to want them to wipe, a reasonable partial wipe wouldn't be so bad, I don't think it's a realistic option and we will probably get f*-all or consider ourselves lucky to get talent points on top of BP... bEcAuSe BaLaNcInG... which is ironic because most BP will be broken from the new collision, and there is cases where someone acquired blueprints that are inherently more problematic than talent points... That's why I wager we will get a fullwipe. 

 

And I'm starting to be down for it... Long term I want the game to do well but ATM I am so disgruntled that I need to see a fullwipe faceplant, and if in consequence the game doesn't make it out alive... well let's just say that bothers me much less than a month ago.

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