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INSIDE NOVAQUARK: DEMETER EDITION - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard
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From the looks of it, alot of change is coming even after this. With the "normal" mining going away, players are going to be incentivized to spend they're time elsewhere. Likely this is hinting at other things going on behind the scenes they haven't spoken about yet. Swapping mining into a bit of automation is both a monetary issue with DBs and also a way to try and coax players to move away from mining for 3-9hrs. Personally, I like the idea. It means I can spend less time mining and focus more on building, which eventually may be rebuilding -.o

  • The idea of wiping to reset quanta is actually kind of funny.
    • Large Scale ORGs would still be quanta machines, simply because they have that good ol'fashioned "Manpower" to flex when necessary. If anything, a wipe would hurt solo players more than any ORG. Also ORG groups would look at projects and simply become more active to support the designers and sellers inside their ORGs.
    • I like to play on the rock im on from time to time, and to be honest, having to start over would royally peeve me off. 
  • What's really going to be funny, is when ATMO combat kicks in, and people cry when they get shot by a commando while they're scanning or some other activity.
    • Yes, there's a Safe-Zone, hide there.
      • Yes, I am a jerk, I know this already.
  • NQ has stated before, the tech they're using is literally a prototype through and through. I can't imagine how many cigarettes and rockstars these poor saps run on from day to day trying to make their "Wonder" server system work.
  • Taxes, why worry about it?
    • Yes, they want people to be active, if your not active, you don't get to keep your goodies.
    • I can't imagine them making it something you can't walk away from for a few days, that makes it a chore not a game at that point ( I pray someone in the design group remembers this )
    • Also, I'm assuming with removal of conventional mining, asteroids may be changed as well O_o, I would highly suggest refunding or giving a Skillpoint allowance to all players to get people up and running and not rock the market to hard.
  • Can we get AVA combat already? I want to board ships and shoot the captain in the bum and call him Forrest.
  • I am now done talking from my buttocks like Ace Ventura, please proceed to flame/ridicule my post so I can smile at your responses. You'll make my workday that much more enjoyable.

NQ, pardon me for my extreme sarcasm and satire. For all others, fly safe, mine well, o7

 

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8 minutes ago, Haku0814 said:

Can we get AVA combat already? I want to board ships and shoot the captain in the bum and call him Forrest.

Can you explain to me how you are going to do that? At the moment, PvP ships are firing at each other at a range of 1-2SU. You can't just jump on the enemy ship and shoot the captain. You would have to reduce the general combat distance of all weapons enormously.

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The problem I see with the territory tax is what happens if you cant play the game for a few weeks to months. you work takes up to much time, you get sick, you just need a break from the game.

 

Does that mean that you loose your territories?

 

Also a clarification on the resources in the territory. If there going to re-randomize the ores how can old territory scans be of any use?

As I understand it, the mega node, witch I have a scan for, will very likely end up as just another average node.

Is the term mega node going to be relevant after the update.

 

will a mega node be something with higher then normal extraction rates.?

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9 hours ago, NQ-Sirg said:

 

Let's say you had a scan for a given territory. After the update, the scan will still be there in your inventory. It will no longer show you the current underground ore information as this information will now be outdated. Instead it will show you the ore information for the new mining unit feature. So a scan item will still be valid and show relevant information.

I’m very disappointed by this choice. There should of been a scan data wipe to slow down the horde of land grabbing and getting people to actually explore again. Now it’s a race of who can tab through their scan container first.

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@NQ
As one of the people who kept complaining alot about the game.

It's time I show my appreciation as well.
I felt like you guys had a big weigh on shoulders deciding on removing the active mining from planets. DON'T BE SORRY!
Most of players who actually achieved something in this game are sick and tired of earthworm mechanic and i'm personally incredibly happy for this update!! Those who want hand mine, still can and will on asteroid!
SO just give us more asteroids and problem solved.
Thank you so much for the auto-miners.
I'm personally against this sniping tile mechanic. I just hope that this buff for having multiple tiles next to each other will compensate for the sniping of best tiles.
I also hope that tiles will be rather balanced so people who joined later will not be forced to live in shadow of those who sniped best tiles.

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9 hours ago, RugesV said:

I am a bit disappointed that there appears to be only one mining unit. 

 

Should be:

T1 Basic, Uncommon, Advanced, Rare, Exotic

T2 basic, Uncommon, Advanced, Rare, Exotic

T3 basic, Uncommon, Advanced, Rare, Exotic

T4 Basic, Uncommon, Advanced, Rare, Exotic

T5 Basic, Uncommon, Advanced, Rare, Exotic

 

Where Uncommon would give you a slightly better calibration (IE more bonus ore), the Advanced gives more yield per unit. the Rare gives you longer period of time between maintenance periods. The Exotic gives you more yield and time. 

 

Please, no. They already confirmed there are 5 tiers of mining units. Don't make factories even more of a mess by having 25 new items x however many lines of each one.

 

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3 minutes ago, Physics said:

I’m very disappointed by this choice. There should of been a scan data wipe to slow down the horde of land grabbing and getting people to actually explore again. Now it’s a race of who can tab through their scan container first.

NQ Sirq mentioned that the actual ore info from PTS and current game, and what will be available after update will be different.
How about you guys actually watch entire video and stop complaining about stuff that has been explained?

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15 minutes ago, Draqolas said:

NQ Sirq mentioned that the actual ore info from PTS and current game, and what will be available after update will be different.
How about you guys actually watch entire video and stop complaining about stuff that has been explained?

How about you read what I just quoted 

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7 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

@NQ-Kyrios

I understand your storage issue on terrain modification.

But I have another solution:

Every X hours caves made by players, that do not have a construct less than Y meters, close up, reverting to the natural state.

Ahahah

 

You really do not think that this solution could not be considered without your intervention?

 

In addition, our customer side computers do the calculations. I really don't want to have the lag due to the regeneration calculation of your tunnels.

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3 hours ago, Haku0814 said:
  • Can we get AVA combat already? I want to board ships and shoot the captain in the bum and call him Forrest.

 

Lock and fire AvA will be glorious /s

 

Do you really think that NQ, not able to pay the cost of their infrastructure now, will be able to get to the point where freefire for handguns will be possible? They can't even get lock and fire to work properly..

 

I would not be surprised if, like most of what was discussed this time last year, AvA is off the table for the moment, only to be reconsidered if and when NQ is in a more stable and financially secure place to undertake development of such a feature.

 

In fact I expect that what we have now (including Demeter) will be pretty much what they will go to "release" with (early 2022) and from there they will just hope and pray that the hundreds of thousands of subscribed players they will need to survive magically show up AND stick around.

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4 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

Ahahah

 

You really do not think that this solution could not be considered without your intervention?

 

In addition, our customer side computers do the calculations. I really don't want to have the lag due to the regeneration calculation of your tunnels

Delete from voxel_table where last_change < now - 5 hours

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"How could they possibly know server costs would be this high? That people would use the tools to mine...?" 

 

Anyone that's ever played an MMO would know...NQ was supposedly "shocked" at how quickly players made it to space, too. It's like they never bothered to play an MMO and vastly underestimated their players.


You know how we know that NQ never really understood how the game would scale....? Because they thought they could make a single shard game but didn't invent anything special to handle the idea of a ton of people occupying one area. The "proof" they made with bots running around was pretty laughable to anyone that understands benchmarking. 

 

You don't get credit for innovation if the thing you "innovate" doesn't work and the reason no one else has done it....is because it doesn't work. 

 

Besides that, it's hard to say that DU is "innovative" running on an off-the-shelf engine and off-the-shelf servers -- that really matters, because it shows how they can't optimize low-level details for either the engine or server infrastructure. Even without mining, will the game really scale...? We'll see. 

 

Besides, what exactly is so innovative about either their design or tech? It's a very good building sandbox with a crappy combat model strapped on...and a vague promise of more. I agree that the game they pitched in their adverts is innovative as all hell, but that's not what DU is today. 

 

If the game does get popular, you can be sure that Demeter won't be the last design change driven by scale and cost.  

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Controversial but this also seems a good time to wipe Quanta, Wipe stored ore and start afresh except for constructs (yea wipe all components made too).

 

Also the different tier mining units just seem again a different stop gap as the ones rich and mineral rich can make them and charge a fortune where as those with far less will struggle.  So the circle continues.

 

Anyway if you are and thinking of doing a wipe at some point i'd rarther you do it NOW than later!

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9 minutes ago, Honvik said:

Anyway if you are and thinking of doing a wipe at some point i'd rarther you do it NOW than later!

A wipe will not remove the problems from the game, as these problems will be present again after a short time. The wipe does not fight the problem, but only hides the symptoms of the problem for a short time.

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8 minutes ago, Honvik said:

Controversial but this also seems a good time to wipe Quanta, Wipe stored ore and start afresh except for constructs (yea wipe all components made too).

 

Why wipe everything except constructs? 

There is no technical requirement to wipe those other things, just the world voxels. So the reason to wipe something else is to make a gameplay reset, maybe for players to have a fresh start with this new set or rules. 

 

So why would NQ leave constructs out of a full wipe meant for a fresh start? 

 

It looks to me that you have tailored this wipe you proposed to your specific needs. 

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27 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

Why wipe everything except constructs? 

There is no technical requirement to wipe those other things, just the world voxels. So the reason to wipe something else is to make a gameplay reset, maybe for players to have a fresh start with this new set or rules. 

 

So why would NQ leave constructs out of a full wipe meant for a fresh start? 

 

It looks to me that you have tailored this wipe you proposed to you

r specific needs. 

 

NQ have stated and have slowly come to a conclusion a wipe of some shape will happen.  The mere mention slowly got people to stop playing recently in case they did wipe constructs and blue prints.  I'm against a wipe but NQ did say to remove in part how people obtained vast wealth swiftly via obtaining things via an exploit but equally I'm sure people having 10 alts running missions (not paid alts beta keys) increasing wealth was not an intended gameplay design either.

 

I'd just prefer if they are going to do something as drastic as a 'reset' better to do it now than a few more months down the line as the uncertainty is harming the game.

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13 hours ago, Nayropux said:

They already got value from those scans by mining out meganodes and/or selling them. Getting to double dip is kinda bullshit, especially since you cannot contest territories and this offers a permanent advantage.

Yes, this.  People were scanning and selling the good tiles and that was the reward.  But now they can go back and look at all the old rejected scans and cherry pick any good ones in there.

I'm in two minds about it myself.  On one hand it's compensation for all the valuable tiles they probably hold now which just lost all their value.  On the other it *might* (depending on how much coverage people have) mean that the only way to get a good tile 2 days after the update is to buy one for a lot of money at auctions.  Which seems a bit rubbish really, I'd rather have a proper goldrush where we all go out and scan like mad to see what we can find.

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Hello ! 

Glad to find the game is growing - getting better ...

@NQ - I have done a lot of scans resulting in  a lot of meganodes and supers from T5 to T1 now (and many others mined out before) . Can we please have an aproxx. time on when the demeter  is going online on the real server . How mush time we have ?     1 week ? 1 month or more? This will help me a lot make the decisions please ... Any estimation will be welcome ... Thank you in advance !

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29 minutes ago, Honvik said:

 

NQ have stated and have slowly come to a conclusion a wipe of some shape will happen.  The mere mention slowly got people to stop playing recently in case they did wipe constructs and blue prints.  I'm against a wipe but NQ did say to remove in part how people obtained vast wealth swiftly via obtaining things via an exploit but equally I'm sure people having 10 alts running missions (not paid alts beta keys) increasing wealth was not an intended gameplay design either.

 

I'd just prefer if they are going to do something as drastic as a 'reset' better to do it now than a few more months down the line as the uncertainty is harming the game.

 

There's like five people who got rich from exploits.  A wipe would make a very vocal minority (of the already limited number of people who still play) happy, and the rest would leave.  It's basically a big middle finger to everyone who has put in the time and effort since the beginning of beta to build wealth.  Doing a quanta-only wipe would be even worse.  I've made money by selling ships.  If you wipe the quanta but let them keep the ships, they they basically got them for free, and I (and every other ship seller) gets screwed. 

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I believe and allways have believed that a game should release with a full wipe. 

But NQ promised players that their beta stuff would count for release...... 

NQ was wrong in letting the money of the new subscriptions be more important than the fairness of a buggy beta game. 

 

The effects of 4 ppl exploiting the game do not only affect those 4 ppl. Their ammunition suppliers got richer because they sold the ammo at an higher price to the exploiters, their factions used their factories mounted with exploit money, their alies were defended by ships mounted with exploit money. 

Their competition was destroyed because they could not compete with an exploiter. 

How about those other 100 exploits? 

How about all those ships with staked engines? How about those players that did not use that exploit? 

How about the tutorial exploits? 

It is naive to think only 4 ppl were affected.... 

If we are to make a wipe to correct the impact of ppl using exploits there is only one alternative. A full wipe. 

 

Having said this, every wipe has to have a reason. 

This patch only requires the planet terrain to be wiped. 

 

And in my opinion, there is no point on doing a full wipe now. Bugs still exist. Exploits still exist. New features will bring new bugs and exploits. 

A full wipe should only happen if there is a technical requirment or at release. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

I believe and allways have believed that a game should release with a full wipe. 

But NQ promised players that their beta stuff would count for release...... 

NQ was wrong in letting the money of the new subscriptions be more important than the fairness of a buggy beta game.

That is not correct. The beta players should build a functioning society and thus create content for the upcoming players, since the game actually only wanted to rely on player-based content and synergies....

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12 hours ago, Haku0814 said:

What's really going to be funny, is when ATMO combat kicks in, and people cry when they get shot by a commando while they're scanning or some other activity.

 

Nice post overall, some of us were talking about removing planet voxels / digging altogether 6 months / a year ago. Believe it or not we have lost a lot of really impressive devs from this community due to .... stuff... some of them are way more qualified than NQ. DB iops are super expensive for what NQ was trying to go for. Additionally they scaled way too early (who needed that many planets at start of beta?). They are dealing with scaling / cost problems while trying to develop new features, which throws the development cycle into a loop of late-come optimization on a lot of the backend code.

 

The main kicker is... atmo pvp combat was removed from the roadmap.. it simply does not exist. Will it ever be added again? Who knows. I think not. Mind you, this game was supposed to have avatar vs avatar pvp first, JC (the starter of this project) said exactly this in one of his development videos. The focus shifted completely somewhere else (Landmark playerbase, building building building). AVA is now only a pipe dream, and sad to say, atmo pvp as well.

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45 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

That is not correct. The beta players should build a functioning society and thus create content for the upcoming players, since the game actually only wanted to rely on player-based content and synergies....

Then why do we even have to mine? 

Why dont they give us admin tools and we build their "player-based" content? 

 

Thats the BS you tell your self to justify that a wipe should not happen. 

 

But the reality is that we are here for a beta test. 

When things break during beta, the developer has to fix. 

If the current player data(aka quanta and assets) is broken because of bugs (and its exploits) it has to be fixed. 

 

The only reason they promised not to wipe was to make all the alpha players to warn their friends with: "This is it! If you dont buy your subscription now you will be years behind current players" 

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16 hours ago, Nayropux said:

They already got value from those scans by mining out meganodes and/or selling them. Getting to double dip is kinda bullshit, especially since you cannot contest territories and this offers a permanent advantage.

uh... just because they scanned does not mean they mined nor that they sold the. I have thousands of scans that I have not mined at all.

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