Jump to content

INSIDE NOVAQUARK: DEMETER EDITION - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard
 Share

Recommended Posts

17 hours ago, FryingDoom said:

I cannot think of a game that altered the basic premise of the game so greatly in beta.

 

Rust, zombies

Stationeers, a buildable spaceship

7d2d  did something that I have since forgotten. 

I know star citizen did a couple game changing things. (and multiple times on the same system). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RugesV said:

Rust, zombies

Stationeers, a buildable spaceship

7d2d  did something that I have since forgotten. 

I know star citizen did a couple game changing things. (and multiple times on the same system). 

Lets just pretend you did not say Star Citizen, a game still in Alpha and probably will be forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seen it more than once, its not the large slaps of text but the little stuff told in remarks. Maybe you shouldlook again too, but thats a little kindergarden way of discussing.

Feel free to defend cost reductions brought as features.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/23/2021 at 10:58 AM, ReconDo17 said:

You obviously did not watch the video, they said that there is a new planet wide voxel system coming in this patch and that ALL land will be filled in. The only way to re-terraform the land and SirG/Deckard said it was to do the custom terraforming again by hand as the new tool they have will only cut a square in the shape of the bounding box for the construct.

You obviously did not read my post. I was asking for a New Tool added to the existing terraforming tools that would allow us to restore things we terraform. In simpler terms so that you can understand: I smooth a hill to flat with the smooth tool....  I would like a restore tool that I could use to restore that hill to they way it was before I smoothed it, if I changed my mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Mhaijik said:

You obviously did not read my post. I was asking for a New Tool added to the existing terraforming tools that would allow us to restore things we terraform. In simpler terms so that you can understand: I smooth a hill to flat with the smooth tool....  I would like a restore tool that I could use to restore that hill to they way it was before I smoothed it, if I changed my mind.

And like I said Deckard has already said pretty emphatically that it will not happen as it is a powerful tool his words not mine so the answer to your request/question is NO. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I guess they answered this question just now lol:

 

1. Talent points - complete refund or partial refund = They said its all or nothing on this issue so take a snap shot of your setup so you can easily get back to where your particular set up is too easy.

 

we are getting a refund of some talents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't seen anything speaking of it so maybe someone can help me out. Currently I can mine on a tile that is unowned. It appears that mining bots need to be placed on a static construct. Does that mean I can only mine on owned/claimed tiles?? Does this not create a barrier to entry to go mining, one of the most basic entry level activities of the game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@NQ 
Please disclose the figures for the territory taxes so that players can prepare themselves before the update in order to divest or merge territories if necessary.
Please also give figures for the quantities of ore that can be obtained per area as a maximum with skills, e.g. in the period of a week/month, so that one can compare the current consumption and farm quantity.
Furthermore, please inform us when and if there will also be taxes on space constructions. I don't want to spend weeks moving my planetary bases into space if they will soon be punished with a tax there as well.
At least NQ once said that there will also be areas for space. So should we stop building large space bases now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Zarcata said:

@NQ 
Please disclose the figures for the territory taxes so that players can prepare themselves before the update in order to divest or merge territories if necessary.
Please also give figures for the quantities of ore that can be obtained per area as a maximum with skills, e.g. in the period of a week/month, so that one can compare the current consumption and farm quantity.
Furthermore, please inform us when and if there will also be taxes on space constructions. I don't want to spend weeks moving my planetary bases into space if they will soon be punished with a tax there as well.
At least NQ once said that there will also be areas for space. So should we stop building large space bases now?

NQ yes we need this info two decide how we are going two play this game or if it’s a game killer for some of us  also are you planing two down size how big we can build it looks like the direction you heading I have Sean this before down sizing game in name of Performance  I think you are taking the easy way out instead of addressing the problem  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am completely confused by the Demeter update.....

...and I'm not sure where to look for a concise easy to understand list of things we need to know about our bases which have been built partially underground.... and about whether we need to buy yet more schematics in order to make mining units etc..

These forums are really hard to find information on.

The video was long and left me confused about what will change for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Demeter, will there also be the restructuring of the organisations with the area revision? Will the 5 organisations be merged into one, as soon(?) a character can only be a SuperLegate of one organisation? (Is this goal still being pursued or has it been moved?)
It would be very important from a purely territorial point of view, so that you don't have to redesign and plan a territory x times.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Celestis said:

I am completely confused by the Demeter update.....

...and I'm not sure where to look for a concise easy to understand list of things we need to know about our bases which have been built partially underground.... and about whether we need to buy yet more schematics in order to make mining units etc..

These forums are really hard to find information on.

The video was long and left me confused about what will change for me.

You must: 

Pay taxes of all tiles you own. Regularly create income to finance your due taxes. Pay about schemas or mining units. Regularly calibrate your mining units. Haul ore to markets and sell it. Pay taxes of all tiles you own. Calibrate your mining units. Haul ore to markets and sell it. Pay taxes of all tiles you own. Calibrate your mining units. Haul ore to markets and sell it. Pay taxes of all tiles you own. Calibrate your mining units. Haul ore to markets and sell it. Pay taxes of all tiles you own. 

 
So: 

You need to have steady income, run missions or mining units to be able to pay your territory taxes. 

To be able to run mining units yo need either to buy them from markets or craft them.  

For crafting you need to buy schemas for mining units. 

When you have your mining unis placed you need to: 

Calibrate them regularly basis 

Also, you need to collect ore and haul it to markets to sell it to be able to pay your territory taxes. 

If combining Territory taxes and Auto miners. Term “Auto miner” is not true. It is auto Grinder. Creating automatically new endless need to grind. 

Sounds more like second work than way to spend my free time. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, the market does not give any quanta, because the quanta there are from players. So no quanta is generated, but only shifted from player A to B.
What generates quanta were the ore bots, but they offered a very small amount of quanta compared to the value. Especially since most of the bots are gone or should be removed from the game in general.
This means that there is currently only one option: you have to do missions to generate quanta.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

However, the market does not give any quanta, because the quanta there are from players. So no quanta is generated, but only shifted from player A to B.
What generates quanta were the ore bots, but they offered a very small amount of quanta compared to the value. Especially since most of the bots are gone or should be removed from the game in general.
This means that there is currently only one option: you have to do missions to generate quanta.

 

 

From miners perspective:

Let's picture out how all would start when Demeter – Territory taxes and auto miners hit the fan. 

 

Day one:

First Taxes are due. You need to have Quanta reserves to pay taxes of all tiles you own. Or else they will be instantly confiscated. 

Then you need to have Quanta reserves to buy Schemas to craft your first mining units. Or need to have Quanta reserves to buy mining units. For that you need to wait for first units to become available at markets. … tick tock tick tock, next date for due taxes is closing.. Prices will be astronomical, because if you are not able to craft your mining units yon NEED to buy them before your property is confiscated. 

Then you need to place our mining units. Before that you may have change to reactivate those tiles which are past due of tax payments. 

Then you just hope that market bots are not removed, and ore prices stay high enough that you can afford the new cost of ownership for tiles. 

So, if you have more than one or two tiles total in universe, do you have enough quanta reserves to keep them before you are able to recreate your mining gameplay? 

 

-- Join the movement Say NO to Territory taxes --

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll try to see this from the point of view of a new player. For the time being, he is bound to Sanctuary as his home.
He can't mine there, but he can't build anything either, because almost everything requires schematics and of course ore, which he doesn't have. So how exactly does a new player get ore? He can hardly accept the missions, as there is no plane that could fly these packages in terms of weight. Especially since he also needs fuel.
So he has to play through all the tutorials for hours for quanta and skill points. From the quanta, he then hopes that he can buy a ship to play the missions on the spot. I must be missing something, right?

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reward of Playing strictly by the book:

 

From the beginning of this open beta, it has been possible to place 1st Territory unit for free to every planet and moon. 

 

That has encouraged players to use that “rule” and all has done by playing by the book.

Now all tiles even those free ones will be taxed. Change of rules. In the real world that would be called deception.

 

- Join the movement Say NO to Territory taxes -

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not the first time NQ carpet bombs an issue to cover it up instead of actually fixing it or create solutions. Many initial incentives have been undone, many delayed responses now just are put in place with no regard for the created exceptions and allowances.

 

The game has become pretty much a spreadsheet simulator where everything is done by playing a numbers game, not by introducting actual gameplay mechanics. There is no money to do that, changing numbers in the database through another UI panel is the easiest and cheapest option.

NQ seems to not have the time, ability or resources to actually create solutions. Just slapping taxes on anything is really a cop out. Designing proper solutions would have required groundwork early on, something NQ choose to not do despite many suggestions and ideas offered by the comunity going back several years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

changing numbers in the database through another UI panel is the easiest and cheapest option.

 

Sad thing is that this tunnel digging problem could have been avoided or stopped just by tweaking few numbers/variables. 

- Location and size of ore-nodes 

- Yield of mining actions 

- Requirements of ore when crafting or running industry 

This rabbit hole of endless tunnels and exponentially growing database is all on NQ. 

 

- Join the movement Say NO to Territory taxes -

Link to comment
Share on other sites

True, had NQ looked at the activity of pre beta backers during (pre)alpha and translated this activity to the number of players they expected to need to have a viable revenuestream, it should have been fairly clear upfront what the cost would be. That this apparently never happened and NQ got caught entirely by surprise on how expensive running the servers became just shows that they never had a long term strategy and only thought short term. 

This is really no surprise to many backers as the signs were there very early on, it also seems that even a year into this mess, NQ still has not worked out such a long term starategy. Although, at this time it may just be too late to make those changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One does not need to be rocket scientist to see that when devs are struggling with pending operations, growing database, networking costs and other tunnel digging problems it won't help if on other hand demand of mining (=tunnel digging) is increased by bots buying ore out of the ecosystem. 

Also vision of forcing to go to large scale industry by introducing schemas did increase demand for ore. 

Or not being able to recycle elements, instead proposed introducing counter for repairs. This way also increasing the demand of ore. 

- Join the movement Say NO to Territory taxes - 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can easily change the ore demand in industry. Some items need 5000 products of the same kind, and producing them consumes huge amounts of intermediate products and, in the end, ores. Partly the ore problem, how many ores are needed to produce something, is a problem of our own making.
You want to integrate PvP into the game? Then the production of PvP parts must be cheap and fast in order to compensate for losses in combat quickly and easily. Fast in procurement, fast in construction, so that you can continue playing after a PvP battle. If you want to play PvP, you don't need 2-3 months of other game content to finally be able to play what you want.
It also needs balance in the PvP area, but that is another gigantic construction site in the game.
For me, however, a fundamental question arises here: Where does NQ see itself with DualUniverse in 5 years with the game content? Will it go in the direction of EveOnline or Starcitizen/Starbase or will it rather go in the direction of a big building sandbox. Of course you can combine both, but at what compromises and obligations for the players?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am on the fence about the territory tax.

 

As long as we still get the 150K every 24h, I guess there will be no problem for a newb to maintain some limited amount of territories. So that aspect is fine.

 

The problem for me has more to do with paying a subscription and still being forced to log into the game and travel around to maintain your territories and buildings etc. Imagine having spent years building up an empire in DU, and then for some medical reason or whatever you are unable to login for a long time. Or maybe you simply just want to take a break from the game, and play something else for a while..

 

And perhapse it is just me. But when I am told I have to do something, it makes me not want to do it..

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

I am on the fence about the territory tax.

 

As long as we still get the 150K every 24h, I guess there will be no problem for a newb to maintain some limited amount of territories. So that aspect is fine.

 

The problem for me has more to do with paying a subscription and still being forced to log into the game and travel around to maintain your territories and buildings etc. Imagine having spent years building up an empire in DU, and then for some medical reason or whatever you are unable to login for a long time. Or maybe you simply just want to take a break from the game, and play something else for a while..

 

And perhapse it is just me. But when I am told I have to do something, it makes me not want to do it..

 

 

Exactly. 

I have nothing against taxes in DU as long they are collected by players or corporations. 

Players ability to collect rent, taxes and other fees is supposed to be part of RDMS (that D = Duties part of it)

 

In real world taxes are collected for creating public services such as: Military and security, justice system, healthcare, social services. Infrastructure, roads railroads etc. 

 

I do not see any kind of these services coming into play along with new taxes. 

 

Instead, I see a Heist of all times. So big that Market 15 incident were just pick a pocket type small theft. 

 

We have paid millions wroth of quanta from our tiles. Those investments were based on amount of ore in the tile, so that territory unit fee has been less or equal of what ore int the tile is wort of. 

These facts together make this property Heist net worth of probably many Billions of quanta. 

 

Proposal: 

I will be very happy to accept this theft of my property and be happy to pay taxes if Aphelia provides basic military services outside of safe zone. By protecting pipes, asteroid miners and cargo convoys from pirates.

PVP:ers don't freak out. I know this is is not gonna happen... just kidding. So therefore I'm all against territory taxes if they are collected by aphelia.

 

- Join the movement Say NO to Territory taxes - 

Edit: PS. Even when devs are Gods, we do have vote in this matter. It is in our real life wallet.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Physics said:

I’d say you are starting the wrong band wagon. Say yes to territory taxes and no to limited calibration charges. Alts give enough advantage with missions as it is.

It's a great idea, you can fight for planetary zones, that generates work points. At the end of the week, the organisation with the most points wins the area and receives the taxes accruing on the planets. The tax rate is then valid for one week and can be reduced by the winner between 0-100% of the standard tax. (Norm tax =100%)
Not every player uses alts or does missions.

What we need in the game is more content, not less. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • NQ-Pann unpinned this topic

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...