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INSIDE NOVAQUARK: DEMETER EDITION - Discussion Thread


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What are the exact limits for how many mining units I can have?
Because I think people will just claim 20 territories per planet with 6 mining units each, quickly turning the game into creative mode, unless I misunderstood something.

 

sorry, should have read/watched everything properly first

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7 minutes ago, Gottchar said:

What are the exact limits for how many mining units I can have?
Because I think people will just claim 20 territories per planet with 6 mining units each, quickly turning the game into creative mode, unless I misunderstood something.

Why several? You can give bonuses through the units when mining ore, which now takes place on the surface. So you don't just get 20 litres / lump of ore, but more depending on the bonuses and skill.
How many terretories you will still have depends on the amount of the coming taxes and how you manage to add them to the quanta.

This patch scares me!
I don't like taxes because it usually forces you to farm quanta to pay for them. So it's not enough to just collect ores to build something fancy and have fun - I have to collect Quanta now.
The game at that time promised everything to be player-controlled and that you can play as you like - now there are all these restrictions and guidelines on how you have to play. I don't know, I'll have a look at it at the pts, but I'm worried that it will keep me in the game.

 

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16 minutes ago, Gottchar said:

What are the exact limits for how many mining units I can have?
Because I think people will just claim 20 territories per planet with 6 mining units each, quickly turning the game into creative mode, unless I misunderstood something.

They explained earlier that each tile has a limit (that you can see in a territory scan) and you can't go over that limit no matter how many mining units you place. 

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25 minutes ago, Gottchar said:

What are the exact limits for how many mining units I can have?
Because I think people will just claim 20 territories per planet with 6 mining units each, quickly turning the game into creative mode, unless I misunderstood something.

As many as you want, but each tile has a max output and eventually your mining units will decrease in efficiency. Increasing your mining units efficiency is what is limited. You can only start the minigame if you have a time refillable charge available. So you could have 1000 mining units with 10 percent efficiency getting the max the tile can give, or you could have 10 with 100 percent if you use your charges to keep them there.

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16 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Will this type of mining yield enough ore to meet current and future demand?

I don't like the idea that multiaccount players will now have a significant advantage in mining.

it's going to really kill the players who mine 5-9 hours/day as they will no longer be able to grind in the ore

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Who gets the tax revenue from the territories in the end? Didn't you want to build the game on a player basis, a player-driven economy and player-based decisions? Now they are imposing a fantasy tax on us players just to take Quanta out of the game? I find it unimaginative to just impose this tax across the board. I could understand it if you had to fight for planets, whoever settles there pays a corresponding tax to the ruling alliance/organisation,....but just taking quanta out of the game across the board without a player being able to defend themselves against this tax or influence it?
In the past, territories were distributed to settlers - that didn't cost any money - and in the past, people simply took land and claimed it, which also didn't cost any money or taxes. Why is something like this demanded in a game as something self-evident or normal?

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Who gets the tax revenue from the territories in the end? Didn't you want to build the game on a player basis, a player-driven economy and player-based decisions? Now they are imposing a fantasy tax on us players just to take Quanta out of the game?

 

Demeter is about NQ saving money, not about good design choices that will improve the game. 

 

Mining changes are designed to remove as much terrain deformation as possible, which is very expensive. 

Taxes are designed to impose a level of attrition so that they can reduce costs....which will also reduce the desire to re-sub to the game after leaving IMO. 

 

These changes are the result of them never really understanding or planning around the scale of the game as an MMO or its cost (and refusing to build their own servers, instead renting them from AWS)

 

Betas are intended to give devs time to polish the game and fix bugs, not make sweeping design changes or test the product to see how much it costs -- all this should have been figured out in the 6+ years of development prior to "open beta". 

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disclaimer:

 

I haven't watched the video yet. From what I read:

 

1) Is this tax a gameplay strategy to re-use the tiles which have been abandonded by players?

2) No more underground structures possible? Is this not really limiting the free aspect of playing how one desires? I can understand that digging just for ore is leaving lots of useless tunnels. But how about the underground constructs on purpose?

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Why are some territories in the safe zone better than others? If they're completely uncontestable, why would anyone new join the game if all the good tiles will be taken by players when the feature launches, and there is nothing they can do about it? This seems like a massive oversight.

 

At least with megas, once they were mined out your advantage was gone. Now you have megas that don't deplete and give you a permanent advantage? Seems like a pretty bad design to me, if you are trying to get new players into the game.

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10 minutes ago, Nayropux said:

Why are some territories in the safe zone better than others? If they're completely uncontestable, why would anyone new join the game if all the good tiles will be taken by players when the feature launches, and there is nothing they can do about it? This seems like a massive oversight.

 

At least with megas, once they were mined out your advantage was gone. Now you have megas that don't deplete and give you a permanent advantage? Seems like a pretty bad design to me, if you are trying to get new players into the game.

There will be new planets and moons, after all, so everyone will have more opportunities to grab things later on.

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1 hour ago, Zarcata said:

Who gets the tax revenue from the territories in the end? Didn't you want to build the game on a player basis, a player-driven economy and player-based decisions? Now they are imposing a fantasy tax on us players just to take Quanta out of the game? I find it unimaginative to just impose this tax across the board. I could understand it if you had to fight for planets, whoever settles there pays a corresponding tax to the ruling alliance/organisation,....but just taking quanta out of the game across the board without a player being able to defend themselves against this tax or influence it?
In the past, territories were distributed to settlers - that didn't cost any money - and in the past, people simply took land and claimed it, which also didn't cost any money or taxes. Why is something like this demanded in a game as something self-evident or normal?

 

 


The quanta was also injected into the game by NQ so I don't see it as too crazy to assume that they will also implement ways of getting it removed out of the game.

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10 minutes ago, Ghangi said:


The quanta was also injected into the game by NQ so I don't see it as too crazy to assume that they will also implement ways of getting it removed out of the game.

I only need Quanta to buy schematics or to set up a territorial unit. I can manage everything else without quanta as a player with other players, and I don't need NQ's specifications for that.

 

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NQ,,, thank you for a game that I have enjoyed playing. I know you have reasons for these mining changes and that they are probably required for the majority of players. I however am in the minority that was on this for Mining and scanning and have Zero interest in PVP. With the safe zone asteroids being limited in number I will be cancelling my account if Demeter as planned is deployed on the main server.

 

I am not bitter, and wish you all the best, it is just that all the feature that made me willing to pay for this game no longer are available.

 

Good luck!!!!

 

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As usual, NQ stopped short of being transparent on the important bits. They do not dare discuss what happens if you do not pay the territory tax and literally push back the conversation from the subject when it came up..

 

I'm starting to think that, while his vision and communication was not great, JC was not just let go, he was pushed out because all this destroys the very foundation on which the game was built, it may be a shaky foundation and a limiting/limited one but this just rips the heart out of the game. And all because NQ is out of money and must do what it can to try and stay alive long enough for the hundreds of thousands of players they think they will get once they release. and they will need those number to stay alive to begin with..

 

More and more the game is hollowed out, all the active components are getting pulled out and replaced by a numbers game of pushing single numbers to save cost. Frankly, the concept of the game failed and now NQ is trying to save what they can.. 

 

They will start taxing people for territory, it would have been great if they had implemented power management to maintain your TU and in turn your constructs.. proper power management could have driven everything in game and it would have been an actual gameplay mechanic. Now they just slap taxes on everything and create sinks.

Problem is that the new mining spreadsheet will not be able to sustain the flow of Quanta needed to drive the economy, let alone give players enough money to pay their taxes. And when the question is raised what happens to your stuff if you do not pay.. NQ shuts down and does not have the guts to provide clear and precise answers.

What will happen is, big orgs, the less than a handful left, will start mining all mega nodes they can and mostly dump them to bots on the market to stack up on cash, those who benefitted financially from the many exploits NQ where plugged te hole but  allowed the spoils to be left  in play will start organizing camps on abandoned tiles. it's virtually impossible to leave stuff on a tile which remains inactive so these will get scooped by the rich few..  

 


A planet reset is not enough, at least a partial wipe with reset of quanta will be needed to repair this and make the game have a chance. There is no reason for anyone to return to the game as it stands. Not only will the industry abandoned by the disaster of 0.23 fall prey to the vultures, so will anything else people who left had. And the game will become a playground for the rich few where the rest fight over scraps.

 


But I get NQ does no longer have the ability to actually build the/a game, all they can do is continue to cut cost to try and survive long enough to see the hundreds of thousands of players come and save them by paying for subscriptions. Well.. dream on..

 

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51 minutes ago, realMod said:

disclaimer:

 

I haven't watched the video yet. From what I read:

 

1) Is this tax a gameplay strategy to re-use the tiles which have been abandonded by players?

2) No more underground structures possible? Is this not really limiting the free aspect of playing how one desires? I can understand that digging just for ore is leaving lots of useless tunnels. But how about the underground constructs on purpose?

 

You should really watch the video.  

 

1) Seems to be

2) Not at all.  They're just regenerating the terrain, and you can still terraform like before.  They're even going to help players with underground bases clear them out. 

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4 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

As usual, NQ stopped short of being transparent on the important bits. They do not dare discuss what happens if you do not pay the territory tax and literally push back the conversation from the subject when it came up..

 

Did you watch the video?  They did discuss what happens when you don't pay the taxes.  For two weeks, the tile becomes "inactive" where industry and mining units won't work.  After that, the TU is deleted and the tile becomes available.  The only thing that wasn't clear (because they haven't decided yet) is what happens to constructs on that tile. 

 

Quote

Problem is that the new mining spreadsheet will not be able to sustain the flow of Quanta needed to drive the economy, let alone give players enough money to pay their taxes.

 

Pretty wild speculation given that they haven't even finalized how much the taxes will be.

 

Quote

A planet reset is not enough, at least a partial wipe with reset of quanta will be needed to repair this and make the game have a chance.

 

Oh good, another ridiculous "wiper" who's mad that other people have more quanta then them. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, sysadrift said:

2) Not at all.  They're just regenerating the terrain, and you can still terraform like before.  They're even going to help players with underground bases clear them out. 

 

Yeah, they will  use a tool which will just remove all planet voxels inside the buidlng boundaries of your construct. So unless you built the full cube, your construct will be magically suspended in the air. Will be lovely to see many of these massive cubic holes. in the terrain.. such an improvement.

 

This whole thing is just the next cost cutting exercise. They pretty much said as much. 

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2 hours ago, realMod said:

disclaimer:

 

I haven't watched the video yet. From what I read:

 

1) Is this tax a gameplay strategy to re-use the tiles which have been abandonded by players?

2) No more underground structures possible? Is this not really limiting the free aspect of playing how one desires? I can understand that digging just for ore is leaving lots of useless tunnels. But how about the underground constructs on purpose?

 

Go watch the video.

 

1) Probably.

2) Wrong.

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