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Schematics


Kaajzr
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Not trying to whine here or anything, only been playing for about 2 months or so and overall pretty into it, but let me see if i understand the whole schematic idea from the latest patch:

 

- basic reinforced frame L schematic  $810,000

- container L schematic  $4,320,000

- static core M schematic  $6,480,000

- dynamic core M schematic  $35,500,000

 

what exactly is the point of this besides turning people completely off the game?

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4 hours ago, Kajzr said:

what exactly is the point of this besides turning people completely off the game?

Illusion of content.

 

Before many felt like they had nothing to do  - they had a factory that could produce everything and they just needed to sink in hours mining to throw in the ore to get the stuff out on the other end.

 

Now - they need to sink in months of mining to get the same factory running again. They have a 'goal' now - to get back to where they were a week ago - or they can quit.

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Yeah, that's what it looks like to me as well. Good thing i built some L containers, couple of ships and territory units before the patch, but space flight is many months away of grinding ore. Seems strange that this is what the devs figured would be a good next step for this game.

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1 hour ago, Kajzr said:

Yeah, that's what it looks like to me as well. Good thing i built some L containers, couple of ships and territory units before the patch, but space flight is many months away of grinding ore. Seems strange that this is what the devs figured would be a good next step for this game.

You can build a space capable ship with nanocrafter without schematics.

 

Cool looking ore miner ship capable of lifting like 1-2kt of ore to space ~= 15mil. That's about 700kl of t1 ore sold to bots with new prices.

 

You don't have to craft everything yourself, that's not how the game is supposed to be played.

 

If you want to craft something, pick a single item, purchase schematic for it and craft it 24/7 (buy ore, sell the product). We are playing MMO not single player game with multiplayer option like SE.

 

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I'll never understand why some people are so intent on prescribing how other peoples playstyles should be. It just so happens some people enjoy the challenge of trying to do it all. You want to limit yourself to the boring task of producing one item be my guest. I buy multiple accounts just so I can "do it all" ...now it seems that playstyle is not in the vision so my multiple accounts have been unsubbed. What folks don't realize is that solo players are actually the majority of paying customers is these games, not because of the number of individual solo players but because we usually have multiple accounts. (it's hard to be self sufficient with one character)

 

What should have been done would have been to offer the basic schems needed to get a start in the game for free. Then as items produced get more complex they could start charging for them, with the more common ones being dirt cheap and the most rare being the most expensive and difficult to acquire.

 

We also should not need a schematic for each machine. This could have been handled by uploading them to database's of varying sizes that could then be linked to a series of industries. Small factories would only need the smaller, relatively inexpensive db's, while the mega-factories would need many much larger, much more expensive db's to operate. 

 

I understand why they did it this way ...IMO they tripped over themselves in the process. The upcoming need for power generation will accomplish their goal. The current implementation of schematics has come in as more of a wall than the curb they intended.

 

Schematics are good and should stay as they add a level of complexity. But implement them so as to add to the fun, not impede it.

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I sometimes wonder why would I reply nicely, try to provide solutions and then get people talking trash. Like why do I care about some noob getting lost, someone unsubbing because he tried to "do it all" and failed blaming the game etc.

 

Like who cares, crash and burn I won't notice. Too busy figuring out how much should I sell warp beacons for.

 

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10 hours ago, Greydog said:

We also should not need a schematic for each machine. This could have been handled by uploading them to database's of varying sizes that could then be linked to a series of industries. Small factories would only need the smaller, relatively inexpensive db's, while the mega-factories would need many much larger, much more expensive db's to operate. 

 

I understand why they did it this way ...IMO they tripped over themselves in the process. The upcoming need for power generation will accomplish their goal. The current implementation of schematics has come in as more of a wall than the curb they intended.

 

Schematics are good and should stay as they add a level of complexity. But implement them so as to add to the fun, not impede it.

Schematics add opportunity cost, power limitations just limit the total output, the machines alone tho had no tradeoffs their super flexability you could just setup and repurpose lines on impulse, now you actually gota think about your needs and priorities and do a little bit of planning. 

 

If some people enjoy the challange of doing it all, im sure they wont mind the challange

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I sometimes wonder why would I reply nicely, try to provide solutions and then get people talking trash. Like why do I care about some noob getting lost, someone unsubbing because he tried to "do it all" and failed blaming the game etc.

 

Like who cares, crash and burn I won't notice. Too busy figuring out how much should I sell warp beacons for.

 

haha, thanks for the tip dipshit.

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All im getting from this patch is people are bitching they cant get the best of everything in a months tops. 

 

I dunno, maybe playing EVE years ago and for those that still do have hardened us for a "long" road ahead. 

Personally, I think after there's more ways to make money they can get rid of the nano crafter for all but bare basics and have schematics for everything

 

Back around 2012 or something, from memory to train all EVE's skills was going to take around 25-30 years. Hows thats for long term grind???? and you guys here complain about 6-12 months? 

Only thing im not overly liking is the building system coming from Empyrion, just need to adjust and learn it

 

And for those saying this game isnt EVE, yes it is. It's very well trying to be, but just a very basic version of it atm.

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I hardly think its people bitching.

 

As a solo player i don't mind if they where to add research, or something that didn't require money. its now impossible for me to use anything I have built and now the most money i can make is the 10,000 you get for logging in ever 24hrs 

 

its not a grind that fun or rewarding. Its just lazy and poorly done

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I've been playing for the last 3 days and I have to say that with the game being in beta stage, it's going to be trial and error before they get it right. During this stage just let the Devs know what is not working. I only found out about the schematics because things weren't working like the guides said, and only found out after digging. Anyway have fun all and see you out there.

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I should start off by saying, this is specifically for the devs & NQ. I'm not trolling anyone on the thread, nor demeaning anyone else.

 

I have tried defending most of the updates, even ones I didn't personally like, because the game is in beta, and there is still soooo much to do before it's released. But the schematic thing is complete bullshit. "That's not how the game is suppose to be played" is a cop-out answer. At least have the common decency to tell the truth and say "we don't care what ppl want, we already got your money, we want this so this is what we're doing...deal with it or f*ck off. We don't care either way."

 

The biggest draw to this game was I could build anything I wanted. I could do anything I wanted. As long as I could imagine it, and I put in the work to get it, I could accomplish it. With or without a group to play with. There were obvious, and large, advantages to playing with a group, but it wasn't necessary to enjoy the game, or to accomplish things. But this latest change, this is the last kick in the juju bees I'm willing to take without voicing my displeasure. And there is no defense for this. There was nothing in the fund raising that said anything about this game being another version of Eve. If I wanted to play Eve, I'd renew my sub and go play. This had sooo much more potential. Me and my group of friends played for 2 yrs, and we still hadn't got a lot of things that we wanted, and hadn't done a lot of things we wanted to do simply because of the time involved in going out to get the materials, refining, skills, etc.....,we do after all have some semblance of a life. But we were still having fun. We were a small group, less than 1/2 a dozen, that played well together, were able to coordinate and accomplish a lot. We could keep relative pace even with the larger orgs. But with this, there's absolutely no point in even logging on. We can't do anything. Go mine, sell it to bots to purchase schems so we can go mine so we can refine so we can sell, so we can mine, so we can refine, then build. Gee...that sounds like FUN! The point is to get together, work for a common goal, ie build a specific ship, building, etc..., and enjoy doing it because we could see progress and the results of our time and effort. Now it's just a grind fest.

 

I understand wanting people to work together. i get it...MMorpg does start with multi-player. However, there are much better ways to encourage it than this abomination. The players seemed to be pretty involved and working together well before this non-sense. The dev's want to slow things down? News flash, it taking months upon months of mining, crafting, planning, and working to complete ONE build is plenty 'long' enough. I even encourage the intricate crafting system. I love that part. The better you are, the more resilient, the more of a product, the less materials consumed or the better a product should turn out. So I don't even have issues with that. But again, making me buy a schem to be able to make it is inane.

 

You don't like the pace at which large orgs were progressing, then do something that would limit them. Not the community as a whole. People will always figure out a way around your idiotic, artificial time sinks. They have hundreds of players to harvest $ from so they can purchase w/e you have set up to try and 'slow' down progress. You still haven't slowed down anything, all you've done is make it impossible for smaller orgs, or small groups of players playing together to be able to do anything except mine. So effectively you've turned all of us into mining slaves for the large orgs. Nice job.

 

If you had put this crap in your fund-raising efforts, instead of the promise to be able to build anything we can imagine, I would never have put out the money to support the game. But since I did, I get to bitch about it on the forums. For all the good it will do.

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On 12/16/2020 at 6:19 AM, MrMellow said:

I hardly think its people bitching.

 

As a solo player i don't mind if they where to add research, or something that didn't require money. its now impossible for me to use anything I have built and now the most money i can make is the 10,000 you get for logging in ever 24hrs 

 

its not a grind that fun or rewarding. Its just lazy and poorly done

No, it's bitching as a result of limited thinking by players.

 

How you cannot make money other than 1the daily reward is beyond me.

 

You can

 

1) sell ores to bots (not ideal, but you can make millions in a short amount of time)

2) If you have a space-capable ship, run to other plants/moons in the safe zone for players who want the higher tier schematics, but don't want to run to those places themselves. I've paid out over a million to people to do this very thing, on top of paying for the schematics and I've only bought about two dozen through others, buying another three dozen schematics myself.

3) produce honeycombs that people want, but don't want to do the industry for. I've seen several people ask for certain t1 and t2 honeycombs, asking if any was for sale.

4) Produce atmospheric fuel and sell it for a profit. You can find a market that has too high a price and sell it for slightly less.

5) make quality ships and sell the BPs. You don't need to have all of the schematics for all of the tiers of elements, just make some nice looking ships that have some functionality or purpose behind them. You can even make ships that are interesting and people may buy them. Once you've made a ship, Core BP it and then take it apart and reuse the elements for your next ship construction. If your voxelmancy skills are low, watch some videos on it and practice. Don't expect people to throw money at you just because.

 

 

 

This is not brain surgery, you can and should be figuring this out, not having it handed to you on a silver platter. This applies to everyone.

 

I've not been hurt at all since the patch, in fact I'd say it has helped me narrow my focus to concentrate on what I REALLY want to do, instead of moving from one thing to another because I can.

 

I've never had more than 9 million at once, and usually it is well under 1 million, but that is because I claimed a number of hexes, not because I bought things from the market.  I could sell what I am using and make an easy 30-40 million, right now, but money is not my object, it is only one stepping stone on the path to my goals in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Penwith said:

No, it's bitching as a result of limited thinking by players.

 

How you cannot make money other than 1the daily reward is beyond me.

 

You can

 

1) sell ores to bots (not ideal, but you can make millions in a short amount of time)

2) If you have a space-capable ship, run to other plants/moons in the safe zone for players who want the higher tier schematics, but don't want to run to those places themselves. I've paid out over a million to people to do this very thing, on top of paying for the schematics and I've only bought about two dozen through others, buying another three dozen schematics myself.

3) produce honeycombs that people want, but don't want to do the industry for. I've seen several people ask for certain t1 and t2 honeycombs, asking if any was for sale.

4) Produce atmospheric fuel and sell it for a profit. You can find a market that has too high a price and sell it for slightly less.

5) make quality ships and sell the BPs. You don't need to have all of the schematics for all of the tiers of elements, just make some nice looking ships that have some functionality or purpose behind them. You can even make ships that are interesting and people may buy them. Once you've made a ship, Core BP it and then take it apart and reuse the elements for your next ship construction. If your voxelmancy skills are low, watch some videos on it and practice. Don't expect people to throw money at you just because.

 

 

 

This is not brain surgery, you can and should be figuring this out, not having it handed to you on a silver platter. This applies to everyone.

 

I've not been hurt at all since the patch, in fact I'd say it has helped me narrow my focus to concentrate on what I REALLY want to do, instead of moving from one thing to another because I can.

 

I've never had more than 9 million at once, and usually it is well under 1 million, but that is because I claimed a number of hexes, not because I bought things from the market.  I could sell what I am using and make an easy 30-40 million, right now, but money is not my object, it is only one stepping stone on the path to my goals in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said it was impossible to get the money to buy the schematic's that was never my point. but to use your list.

 

1) selling ores isn't exactly fun or challenging its dull, boring and repetitive and a long grind

2) "if" you have a space-capable ship. key word If. its not something a new player can do and oh look to get a space-capable ship soo again to grind to be able to either be able to build your own ship or buy a ship is again, dull and boring and its a tad bit ignorant for you to suggest that as not everyone has the capability's/had the resources before the update to do that.

3)to produce honeycombs you kinda need a machine or spend hrs doing nothing as you would have to craft in your inventory. and idk about you but that not fun or a rewarding way to progress 

4) just use my honey come point here

5) make ships....yeah ok what am I building them out of, where am I getting the engines oh yeah its either craft for hrs in your inventory and be limited to only the most basic building materials ooor spend money on buying the things that you need. Which you could do but if you have been playing to the point you can build a good and effective ship that someone is gunna wanna buy then I will bet your not a new player. and if your a new player i don't really see this as being a option.

 

so yeah its not brain surgery or even hard. unless your a new player.

but you know what ells isn't brain surgery...? implementing a update that increases the amount of time to reach "end game" and make it rewarding, fun and something that scales if your solo player or apart of a organisation.

 

so yeah for you to say this update is good. I think you have to admit your saying its a good update because you have played the game so much before it updated that its not impacted you in the same way as someone who has only just finished the tutorials 

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13 minutes ago, MrMellow said:

 

 

so yeah for you to say this update is good. I think you have to admit your saying its a good update because you have played the game so much before it updated that its not impacted you in the same way as someone who has only just finished the tutorials 

 

That was true for people back in November, and October, and September, each not starting in with the same situation as those who began earlier.

 

You can cheaply make a space capable ship. In fact, you can take the basic speeder that you get for free, and within a matter of about two hours, maybe less, have ship capable of reaching any planet or moon. Will it have warp? Depends on how long you want to work for the money.

 

A player can enter the game for the first time, run through those tutorials that work (some are not finished yet), do a bit of mining, the buy the parts for a ship that can go into space. Will it be a massive freighter? Of course not, but it's a start that is easily achievable.

 

Or a player can enter the game, run through the tutorials, and declare it to be unfair and impossible.

 

Your choice.

 

I know of more than one player who started since the patch and is now running to other planets in order to buy and sell schematics for a profit.

 

Again, the wall that is stopping you is in your mind, not in the game.

 

 

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Yes, it's true that there is still ways to make money, but it's also undeniable that NQ changed the game pretty significantly, and the introduction of schematics was a hard nerf.

 

As a solo player, the fun part of this game was mining my own ore and creating my own stuff. Now, the fun part of playing around with different designs, using my own industries to craft my own ships, has been removed and replaced with much grinding and traveling to markets. Perhaps this was always in the designers' visions and plans, so that people "participate" more in the game I suppose, but it does seem like they could have gone a different route, actual introduction of new content, etc. and so it's easy to see people's frustration and disappointment, mine included.

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Typical socialist ideas, more regulation on progress. No problem for orgs with $$$ but bad for the little guy that needs to pay 40k to make a basic screw.

 

I suppose the idea would be better if we were able to research the schematics and possibly sell them ourselves instead of these bots controlling the market. If an engine is worth 120k because no one is selling them, then why does a bot determine it's 40k

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4 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

Oh look... Warp drives are back down to 1.5M on a number of markets after hitting a high of about 8M a few days ago.... That didn't take long. LOL.

 

JC, was that too quick for you? Are you going nerf tf out of everything again?

Mining is probably next : )

 

"Not everyone supposed to mine".

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