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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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9 minutes ago, Celestis said:

This and other posts in this discussion.

 

When I started playing at the end of Alpha, there were many people who had loads of Talent points, and lots of industry, and experience of the game and I found that really useful because all of those people were really helpful in getting me started.

 

A full wipe of everything to level players so that all the old very experienced players have to start back at the beginning along with all the new players, would be a mistake because the best experience for new players is when there are advanced players with loads of stuff available to help them out.

 

However, NQ will probably do that because mistakes seem to be what they do best.

 

 

Just full wipe or no wipe.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Celestis said:

A full wipe of everything to level players so that all the old very experienced players have to start back at the beginning along with all the new players, would be a mistake because the best experience for new players is when there are advanced players with loads of stuff available to help them out.

 

another weak attempt to fool us. you dont care about new players, you only care about yourself and your "wealth". im so sick of all these ppl who try to argue how they should not lose all their stuff. you are pathetic, every single one of you.

 

gaming is dead anyway, i dont even know why i am here. i stopped playing right after the "glorious" schematic update like most others and i dont plan to play again.

 

i would only come back if all these come true:

 

there is a full wipe, everybody starts from 0

you buy the game and then pay never again. no sub bullshit, ingame shop for skins etc. is enough to finance the game

the game is on steam only

no schematics at all (there are much butter ways like specialization via talents)

 

as you can see i will never play this game again. good luck everybody

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5 hours ago, Niemand said:

another weak attempt to fool us. you dont care about new players, you only care about yourself and your "wealth". im so sick of all these ppl who try to argue how they should not lose all their stuff. you are pathetic, every single one of you.

That argument goes both ways. I could just as well argue that it is pathetic (your words) that some players are demanding that veterans should lose all their effort, just so that (edit) new players get to feel special for a short while after release.

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16 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

That argument goes both ways. I could just as well argue that it is pathetic (your words) that some players are demanding that veterans should lose all their effort, just so that they get to feel special for a short while after release.

Perhaps it is translated incorrectly, but in terms of content you seem to mean exactly the same thing.

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3 hours ago, Niemand said:

you buy the game and then pay never again. no sub bullshit, ingame shop for skins etc. is enough to finance the game

the game is on steam only

 

So on one hand, you want a full wipe so everyone starts "the same" -- okay, whatever. I'm open to that perspective I guess.

 

But saying it should be a one-time charge with no microtransactions...that just makes zero sense at all and you surely know it.

 

That's just fundamentally not how MMOs work...

 

The only model close to that is GW, which obviously doesn't have same infra demands as DU and drops so many expansion packs, it's close to a microtransaction model anyway. 

 

Then saying everyone else is pathetic...? When you're the one coming back here with the genius idea that "steam" will "finance" the game...? Hmm, that's bold. 

Edited by blundertwink
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On 7/26/2022 at 7:59 PM, Niemand said:

another weak attempt to fool us. you dont care about new players, you only care about yourself and your "wealth". im so sick of all these ppl who try to argue how they should not lose all their stuff. you are pathetic, every single one of you.

 

gaming is dead anyway, i dont even know why i am here. i stopped playing right after the "glorious" schematic update like most others and i dont plan to play again.

 

i would only come back if all these come true:

 

there is a full wipe, everybody starts from 0

you buy the game and then pay never again. no sub bullshit, ingame shop for skins etc. is enough to finance the game

the game is on steam only

no schematics at all (there are much butter ways like specialization via talents)

 

as you can see i will never play this game again. good luck everybody

I am not a wealthy player; I just really like having them around because I have always found them very helpful.

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Meanwhile in an alternative dimension we have Star Citizen refunding players with in game credits for lost playtime when they do a wipe even in Alpha.

Because they actually value play time and care about keeping players I guess..

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I was actually expecting a wipe announcement soon -- figuring schematics was the last thing they wanted to touch before pulling the trigger. 

 

It will be going into month 4 after all...i.e. an entire quarter consumed by this. 

 

So much light has been shed on their internal decision making, it's like everyone is blind and unable to see what's next. 

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Quote

A reset would be an opportunity to remove things that have been deemed very unpopular by the already existing community, such as the schematics. The only way to remove them in a clean way without causing too many disturbances in the economy is clearly when the in-game economy has been just reset.

 

Quote
  • - Doing no wipe at all.
  • Does not allow to remove Schematics properly.
  • Does not allow to revamp the old planets properly.
Quote
  • Having a full wipe
  • Most efficient, proper way to remove schematics.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/24639-shedding-light-on-a-novaquark-internal-discussion/

 

Having schematics removed was one main reason for wipe.

Now schematics issue is resolved without wiping. There is no real reason for wipe.

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It's still interesting to me how NQ somehow, nearly three years after the fact, came to the conclusion somehow that schematics were "very unpopular by the already existing community"

 

The ones with whom they were unpopular left years ago and would not return in most cases, regardless of what NQ does or does not do. The whole "rush in this schematic change" feels more like a part of NQ is trying to establish "their way or the highway" internally to me.. Can't say if it's true or not, but it feels like it was just pushed through without actually having a conversation about it.

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16 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

It's still interesting to me how NQ somehow, nearly three years after the fact, came to the conclusion somehow that schematics were "very unpopular by the already existing community"

 

The ones with whom they were unpopular left years ago and would not return in most cases, regardless of what NQ does or does not do. The whole "rush in this schematic change" feels more like a part of NQ is trying to establish "their way or the highway" internally to me.. Can't say if it's true or not, but it feels like it was just pushed through without actually having a conversation about it.

 

There was lots of posts against schematics after 0.23

Maybe they also see user data before and after 0.23

 

What I wonder is how controversial this new schematics concept is in regards of this original devblog, what we are commenting here.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/24639-shedding-light-on-a-novaquark-internal-discussion/

 

Edit:

Another controversial statement:

Quote
  • Does not allow to revamp the old planets properly.

 

Isn't planet revamp already done? Or what was that "Terrain reset" few months ago

 

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24 minutes ago, kulkija said:

 

There was lots of posts against schematics after 0.23

Maybe they also see user data before and after 0.23

 

What I wonder is how controversial this new schematics concept is in regards of this original devblog, what we are commenting here.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/24639-shedding-light-on-a-novaquark-internal-discussion/

 

Edit:

Another controversial statement:

 

Isn't planet revamp already done? Or what was that "Terrain reset" few months ago

 

I think by revamp they want to do like with Jago and Teoma.

For all planets/moon

 

Previously it's was only a reset terrain

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4 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

The ones with whom they were unpopular left years ago and would not return in most cases, regardless of what NQ does or does not do. The whole "rush in this schematic change" feels more like a part of NQ is trying to establish "their way or the highway" internally to me.. Can't say if it's true or not, but it feels like it was just pushed through without actually having a conversation about it.

 

No need for NQ to be rocket scientists to know that 0.23 did not go as planned. And after reducing the schematic prices down from insane to high to at least prevent every single player from leaving the game, it was total radio silence about the issue for years. And it was only mentioned again recently when it fit their narrative to suddenly admit subscriptions where bad, and use that as an excuse for yet another server cost reducing patch.

 

And the worst part in all this is that they are now doing EXACTLY the same types of mistakes all over again, ignoring feedback and pushing game breaking changes while pretending everything is fine.

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3 hours ago, Kanamechan said:

I think by revamp they want to do like with Jago and Teoma.

For all planets/moon

 

Previously it's was only a reset terrain


Maybe this :
"We want to increase the quantity of discovered planets and moons as well as new aspects, biomes and gameplay opportunities, and to produce planetoids the size of big asteroids, much like the Thades belt rocks, but claimable as a territory. "
 



 

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19 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

Let's hope this is what is finally coming ...

This is to date still the only thing NQ has ever mentioned that would justify a full terrain wipe.

But even so based on what NQ has said about that topic previously, it still does not justify some kind of player resource wipe.

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23 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

Let's hope this is what is finally coming ... 

I was really looking forward to the new planets and thought the Beta wipe was going to be when they would introduce it. It wasn't and I forgot about it, but maybe we should ask Aphelia if the changes have been dusted off and completed or was it all a mirage?

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38 minutes ago, JayleBreak said:

I was really looking forward to the new planets and thought the Beta wipe was going to be when they would introduce it.

 

Yeah..  I was really looking forward to that. It was a bummer that JC announced the changes did not make it to beta nut still hopeful when he said that they'd bring it in during (with a wipe). The hammer fell when he announced that it would not happen after all but that we'd get a whole new solar system instead to compensate plus everything else and all that within a year (source). 

 

That kind of told me he was really just full of BS and had been stringing us along. It was where I more or less went to the side of "NQ is not going to deliver the game they promised/set out to make" and it pretty much played out that way...

 

JC's vision was great but his execution of said vision and management of the company was about as bad as it gets. Which is also why he found himself kicked out.


It would be amazing if NQ manages to get the new planet tech in and gives us "a whole new world" to play with for release. I'd love to be able to get behind NQ pulling a massive rabbit out of the hat for release, but I think that is at best a very slim possibility and it's more likely we get what we have now instead.

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Early talk (~2018) was about a procedurally generated universe - that people would be able to head off in any direction and find new star systems to exploit.  The programmers amongst us wondered how they would handle all that data - being able to do so would have truly been a programming feat.  We saw the death of that once they started hand tweaking the planets "for quality" purposes.

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On 7/30/2022 at 3:38 PM, Pleione said:

The programmers amongst us wondered how they would handle all that data - being able to do so would have truly been a programming feat.

 

They pushed this idea that they developed "cutting edge" technology that would magically allow them to maintain vast amounts of data and scale to "millions" of players. I wondered how this would work, but I generally believed them. 

 

Then I played the game on beta launch and realized they were in way, way, way over their heads.

 

Learning more about their tech, it became clear that they hadn't really "innovated" anything to make their claims about scale even a little bit realistic. 

 

As we see now, they didn't even do basic due diligence in testing the crappy tech they did make with any sort of real load or even basic, basic common sense.

 

Yet they love to complain about their bad choices, too...like telling us that "scaling to infinity" is so obviously not a path forward with industry as if they weren't the ones that designed it like that to begin with years and years and years ago. 

 

If they owned their mistakes, I think everyone would give NQ a lot more sympathy and patience. But they don't do the whole "humble" thing...instead, they want us to adjust our tone and be more positive in feedback. They want us to understand why changes are "required" while in the same breath admitting that it's probably not fun. 

 

The hubris is just outstanding...and I admit, their whole attitude makes me eager to see the next few months play out as we all know they will. 

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On 4/14/2022 at 8:40 PM, Cergorach said:

I've been doing some thinking... If NQ does a full wipe, except talent points. Existing players would have a HUGE advantage! My main can perfectly produce most T1 (Basic) Elements and is getting close to perfectly building T2 (Uncommon) Elements, the same is true for Atmo and Space Fuel. Do some math and see how much of a difference that makes compared to a fresh player. That's not only an issue with quanta, but with resource consumption rate, and advancement rate. I can make stuff faster, be earlier done with a ship, get earlier to missioning, trading, mining, etc. Grab land earlier, start scanning tiles earlier, etc.

 

My main has almost perfect passive mining talents, my other three characters also have almost perfect passive mining talents (except the handling talents, need only one char for those). Not only do I get more per autominer, I also get a TON more mining charges per week. My secondary has perfect placement talents for vehicles, combine that with the perfect flying skills of my third and (almost) fourth char. That would mean I could lift a lot more, a lot faster, combine that with the limitations of the max speed in space, that is also a huge advantage over newbies.

 

That's why keeping the talent points is a bad idea if the objective is to equalize the difference between new and existing players...

 

But there's something you can't realistically block, the knowledge on how to do stuff effectively in DU, what you should look at, how, why, when, etc. The only way to counter this is to massively change the game on launch or just start blocking existing players. Keep in mind that the players and corps that where playing in Alpha had a HUGE advantage over us Beta starters, they became massive fast. For some reason people keep forgetting this...

 

The problem with this is, there is no solution, not even an imperfect solution. The cat is out of the bag.

 

 

But in 2 years you will have the same issue...New players will be on the back foot again until other people leave.
Only fix i see is remove ALL ore etc cost reduction talents and just have time base only. Then new and old players will make the same profits just at a slower pace.

Edited by LeeFall
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1 hour ago, LeeFall said:

 

But in 2 years you will have the same issue...New players will be on the back foot again until other people leave.
Only fix i see is remove ALL ore etc cost reduction talents and just have time base only. Then new and old players will make the same profits just at a slower pace.

 

That is certainly true. New players are always going to be behind players with many talent points. This is not only the case in industry however. New players that come in and choose mining talents will mine less ore in a given time compared to someone with many talents. A new player that comes in with zero mining unit talents will receive less ore than one that has talents. A new pilot will use more fuel and lift less weight than one without. The majority of the talent tree equates to characters that have more income potential. I'm not sure how you fix that without creating an entirely different game.

Edited by Deathknight
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