Jump to content

SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


Recommended Posts

"lost some assets? LMFAO!  a large amount of players lost everything"

 

 

sounds like he didnt even login to check... yup bringing 30 (probably more!!!!) likeminded, who are super gonna stay and swallow post relaunch hiccups with grace

 

 

whatever let it rip allready

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/14/2022 at 7:52 PM, JayleBreak said:

FIX the ECONOMY! A wipe will NOT do that by itself. I suggest:

  • Have all marketplaces on a given planet or moon reference the same pool of buy/sale orders.
  • Sale orders can be created at any marketplace like today.
  • Buy orders can be fullfilled anywhere on the planet (no flying back and forth just to get an item which can be crafted locally faster). Perhaps a new kind of dispenser could be created for use in static constructs.

 

Good suggestions all, but I think it will take more than that. For the economy to work, individuals / small orgs need to be able to offer something that mega-factories / large orgs can't. For example being able to make better stuff, but slower / more focussed, giving it scarcity value. Individuals need a niche that allows them to earn money (other than just as a mining-drone), and everyone needs an incentive to work and trade together (other than just joining an org to do PvP).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Samedi said:

For the economy to work, individuals / small orgs need to be able to offer something that mega-factories / large orgs can't.

that could be achieved with "energy consumtion" in factories - a bigger factory is more focussed on WarpCells and WarpDrives plus some "Uncommon Military L-Atmospheric Engines" but then has no capacity anymore for some of the pipes /screws or even "uncommon burners" which are needed in the example above. 

 

Each Account has his Energy pool and he can also share some with his org (similar to the tile contrubution).

Someone who wants to use 3 accounts to have enough for the full industrie also pays 3x subs. And anyone's happy. Otherwise its either T1 products or the fancy stuff, but not both at the same time (=longer production times).

 

That way we could get rid of the schematics as well - otherwise we'll be back to the pending operation orgies.

 

THE PERFECT SOLUTION for so many issues - but never ever seen or acknowledged by NQ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Captain Hills said:

that could be achieved with "energy consumtion" in factories

 

Yeah, power/energy is definitely something that would help with a lot of design flaws. Fairly mind-blowing that it wasn't there from early on. Some sort of quality stat might be another option. 

 

The main point - and again, this has been said multiple times in this thread by others - is that a reset on its own won't fix the economy, and without it being fixed, we will just end up back where we are in a few months. How to fix it is up for debate but that it needs more than a reset should be self-evident.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Samedi said:

 

Yeah, power/energy is definitely something that would help with a lot of design flaws.

 

...although I'm not sure it will really help with my specific point of giving smaller players a way to compete with the monoliths. I'm fully in favour of it for other reasons though - not least of which being a basic sense of realism...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Samedi said:

I'm not sure it will really help with my specific point of giving smaller players a way to compete

I think it will

its probably difficult to check what's requested on the market - and sometimes players have to adapt and add some fabricators to produce something else - but there's a chance to sell something if big players simply wont produce all themselves because they loose time 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Captain Hills said:

I think it will

its probably difficult to check what's requested on the market - and sometimes players have to adapt and add some fabricators to produce something else - but there's a chance to sell something if big players simply wont produce all themselves because they loose time 

That's not how that works. The big guys with the largest factories who would get "energy" from alts and people in their group would produce everything, and would undercut everyone else's pricing due to "free" ore coming in from those same alts and group members. It's nigh impossible for a solo player to compete in a system where you artificially stop/slow down industry by tying it to an account/accounts. It just makes whaling even more profitable than it already is (new mission system + cores). Energy systems were something they were talking about in the alpha on a per core basis, but has long since been scrapped like a lot of other things. We are not going to see "huge" game changing releases post launch, as they wont be able to have any way of wiping post launch and this last patch was the last major patch per NQ before release. We may see some small changes and some "added content" post release along with whatever scale wipe they plan to do + the pseudo lua wipe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, CyberDay said:

We are not going to see "huge" game changing releases post launch

sadly but true - balancing things like that should be there already

 

33 minutes ago, CyberDay said:

get "energy" from alts and people in their group would produce everything, and would undercut everyone else's pricing due to "free" ore coming in from those same alts and group members

fair, if members spend their power to the org, its okey if the org can do more then the lonely wolf

and also fair if someone pays multiple subs to be able to do more then another "single"player

 

but you're right - that's all not gonna happen :\

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why people expect that a small org should be able to compete with large ones. As long as a game use any resemblance of normal economic principles and risk/reward system, there is just no way to achieve that. So like in RL the only way for small to compete with big is to operate in niche segments, have better strategies and being more nimble and quicker to adapt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

I don't see why people expect that a small org should be able to compete with large ones. As long as a game use any resemblance of normal economic principles and risk/reward system, there is just no way to achieve that. So like in RL the only way for small to compete with big is to operate in niche segments, have better strategies and being more nimble and quicker to adapt.

They should be able to be competitive though, as a function of cost of materials v cost of products. You just wont make the volume that someone in a large org is making unless you can afford to keep enough MUs running to keep a massive factory running at 100%. An energy system like he mentioned is an artificial way to make the divide between solo players/small org and large org players very very skewed. Once again, non of this matters if there isn't enough people to actually even simulate an economy playing and if schematics are removed, a lot of things change a bit as well.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure an energy system is going to be a cure-all some feel it will be.  It will just be another throttle in the game.

 

Pre 0.23 I had a large core space factory that I fed ore into and out popped Warp Cells and other items of interest.  People seem to feel that's somehow wrong, that an individual that player 12+ hours a days shouldn't be able to do that.  Ok.  Everyone is allowed an opinion.  However if there was an energy system the impact would be one of two things:  I'd use up more space building more generators, or things would just slow down as power was routed to refiners, then metalwork units, then medium assemblers, then large assemblers.  So like schematics, it would slow me my progress down, but would not stop me.  Note that it was REALLY rare for the entire plant to be active at once - typically something became a throttle point, be it ore, or advanced leds, or some other intermediate product.  The fun for me was finding those bottlenecks and reducing them.

 

For those PVPers out there:  I was one of those folks that supplied parts to the marketplace, so slow me down, and to some degree, you will just be slowing down the availability of parts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cergorach said:

You want custom handmade boutique screws? 😉

 

All the cool kids are using them 😛.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Main problem as I see it, is that NQ is adding more and more time gating and grind as a quick and easy way to try and extend game play, instead of actually adding more features to the game. And sadly the end results is that by doing this they end up removing game play instead of adding it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

Main problem as I see it, is that NQ is adding more and more time gating and grind as a quick and easy way to try and extend game play, instead of actually adding more features to the game. And sadly the end results is that by doing this they end up removing game play instead of adding it.

 Concur completely.  What annoys is the often transparent excuse of "Improving gaming experience".  ex:  Manufacturing "batches" - which was clearly an attempt to reduce server overhead (e.g. cost) on their part.  It was actually a decent idea - no reason to wake up a server every few seconds to process a single screw - make batches of them every 10 minutes or so instead.  That worked fine for things like screws, but borked a lot of higher level parts both by requiring factory changes (intermediate container sizes) and by making some batches take hours or days to complete.  Had they simply hand turned each process to something like batch sizes that took nor more than 30 minutes, they would have gained the bulk of their objective without discord for what might have taken some intern a few hours to implement (presuming its table driven) and not a 1000 "if then else" statements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not copy RPG talent tree system for industry?

Make most things tiered 0-5.  You get X amount of points to spend on industry. 

Tier 0 is no points, just cost of schematics. Tier 1-5 you need to spend point.  Specialization starts at Tier 3. 

 

You can use all your points and be a jack of all trades and take Tier 1 and Tier 2.  As soon as you spend Y amount of points in Tier 1 or 2 all other tiers are greyed out and all further points can only be spent in Tier 1 and 2 with enough points to get everything, you are now a jack of all trades up to Tier 2.  Leave some item in Tier 0-2 that only jacks of all trades can get.

Or

Plan your specialization and be, for example, an engine specialist.  You have to put your points into Tier 1 and 2 engines to unlock Tier 3 engines and as soon as you pick Tier 3 engines all other parts of the tree are greyed out.  You can only move up the engine talent tree to Tier 4 and Tier 5 with enough points for everything.

 

You equalize the points so that all the points needed to fill Tier 1 and 2 is the same as specializing to Tier 5 of one branch of the tree.

You still have to buy schematics, just not so expensive for Tier 0 - 1.  Tier 2 is where it where the cost becomes impactful, time consuming, and require travel.  The cost of a solo player to specialize up to Tier 5 should be a grueling, mind numbing, dangerous experience.

The cost of materials for Tier 3-5 should be outrageous so new players wont just skip over Tier 1 and 2.

Corporations will need several people to make higher Tier items, and solo players can play without corporations.  But they would need each other.  

I would go even further, and not allowing jack of all trades to be part of corporations.  Any cooperation would be just that, cooperation.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Zarcain said:

Why not copy RPG talent tree system for industry?

Make most things tiered 0-5.  You get X amount of points to spend on industry. 

Tier 0 is no points, just cost of schematics. Tier 1-5 you need to spend point.  Specialization starts at Tier 3. 

 

You can use all your points and be a jack of all trades and take Tier 1 and Tier 2.  As soon as you spend Y amount of points in Tier 1 or 2 all other tiers are greyed out and all further points can only be spent in Tier 1 and 2 with enough points to get everything, you are now a jack of all trades up to Tier 2.  Leave some item in Tier 0-2 that only jacks of all trades can get.

Or

Plan your specialization and be, for example, an engine specialist.  You have to put your points into Tier 1 and 2 engines to unlock Tier 3 engines and as soon as you pick Tier 3 engines all other parts of the tree are greyed out.  You can only move up the engine talent tree to Tier 4 and Tier 5 with enough points for everything.

 

You equalize the points so that all the points needed to fill Tier 1 and 2 is the same as specializing to Tier 5 of one branch of the tree.

You still have to buy schematics, just not so expensive for Tier 0 - 1.  Tier 2 is where it where the cost becomes impactful, time consuming, and require travel.  The cost of a solo player to specialize up to Tier 5 should be a grueling, mind numbing, dangerous experience.

The cost of materials for Tier 3-5 should be outrageous so new players wont just skip over Tier 1 and 2.

Corporations will need several people to make higher Tier items, and solo players can play without corporations.  But they would need each other.  

I would go even further, and not allowing jack of all trades to be part of corporations.  Any cooperation would be just that, cooperation.

 

 

 

They are done and this last patch was the last one before release. What you see now is what is gonna go to "release". They have stated that as such, so don't waste your time thinking they are gonna read your post or one's like that and be like "wow what a good idea we should start development on that". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Zarcain said:

Why not copy RPG talent tree system for industry?

Make most things tiered 0-5.  You get X amount of points to spend on industry. 

Tier 0 is no points, just cost of schematics. Tier 1-5 you need to spend point.  Specialization starts at Tier 3. 

 

You can use all your points and be a jack of all trades and take Tier 1 and Tier 2.  As soon as you spend Y amount of points in Tier 1 or 2 all other tiers are greyed out and all further points can only be spent in Tier 1 and 2 with enough points to get everything, you are now a jack of all trades up to Tier 2.  Leave some item in Tier 0-2 that only jacks of all trades can get.

Or

Plan your specialization and be, for example, an engine specialist.  You have to put your points into Tier 1 and 2 engines to unlock Tier 3 engines and as soon as you pick Tier 3 engines all other parts of the tree are greyed out.  You can only move up the engine talent tree to Tier 4 and Tier 5 with enough points for everything.

 

You equalize the points so that all the points needed to fill Tier 1 and 2 is the same as specializing to Tier 5 of one branch of the tree.

You still have to buy schematics, just not so expensive for Tier 0 - 1.  Tier 2 is where it where the cost becomes impactful, time consuming, and require travel.  The cost of a solo player to specialize up to Tier 5 should be a grueling, mind numbing, dangerous experience.

The cost of materials for Tier 3-5 should be outrageous so new players wont just skip over Tier 1 and 2.

Corporations will need several people to make higher Tier items, and solo players can play without corporations.  But they would need each other.  

I would go even further, and not allowing jack of all trades to be part of corporations.  Any cooperation would be just that, cooperation.

 

 

At some point, if you keep taking away player agency, there will be no game left for people to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Zarcain said:

Why not copy RPG talent tree system for industry?

Make most things tiered 0-5.  You get X amount of points to spend on industry. 

Tier 0 is no points, just cost of schematics. Tier 1-5 you need to spend point.  Specialization starts at Tier 3. 

 

You can use all your points and be a jack of all trades and take Tier 1 and Tier 2.  As soon as you spend Y amount of points in Tier 1 or 2 all other tiers are greyed out and all further points can only be spent in Tier 1 and 2 with enough points to get everything, you are now a jack of all trades up to Tier 2.  Leave some item in Tier 0-2 that only jacks of all trades can get.

Or

Plan your specialization and be, for example, an engine specialist.  You have to put your points into Tier 1 and 2 engines to unlock Tier 3 engines and as soon as you pick Tier 3 engines all other parts of the tree are greyed out.  You can only move up the engine talent tree to Tier 4 and Tier 5 with enough points for everything.

 

You equalize the points so that all the points needed to fill Tier 1 and 2 is the same as specializing to Tier 5 of one branch of the tree.

You still have to buy schematics, just not so expensive for Tier 0 - 1.  Tier 2 is where it where the cost becomes impactful, time consuming, and require travel.  The cost of a solo player to specialize up to Tier 5 should be a grueling, mind numbing, dangerous experience.

The cost of materials for Tier 3-5 should be outrageous so new players wont just skip over Tier 1 and 2.

Corporations will need several people to make higher Tier items, and solo players can play without corporations.  But they would need each other.  

I would go even further, and not allowing jack of all trades to be part of corporations.  Any cooperation would be just that, cooperation.

 

 

 

Ah... and what happens if I want to play the game for 15 years and become that jack of all trades?  EVE was created in 2004 I believe, so its been around for 18 years now.

 

Forcing me to become, say, the universes best Advanced LED manufacturer has zero interest to me.  Way to easy for a mega corp to take a loss and simply undercut my prices until I leave the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

full wipe in favor and please remove the whole schematic system  soo we not have to waste extra quanta on those recipes to craft anything with industrial units i liked the late alpha system better and could build my own stuff  as a solo player  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/14/2022 at 3:06 PM, MelTuc said:

I think this is a major point that a lot of people are over looking, Advance Blueprints are pretty much useless for a long period of time if you are forced to start from zero. 

Not to mention most of the older blueprints are now bugged and fly away when you try to place them.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  

48 minutes ago, Gryffin-1 said:

What about Ship/construct Core blueprints that have been purchased, found in salvage or that were salvaged with open RDMS? Also please keep in mind that there are many people who did not build their own ships and do not have back up BP's. So if a wipe comes, they will loose all their ships. I think we need  a compromise here for those folks.

 

 

I took this response to a more suitable thead as it ws out of scope fo rthe Mercury update thread really..

 

If you have a core blueprint , you will be the construct creator, you will have salvaged it or it is a DRM free construct. It would be bad to cut out the opportunity for builders and ship sellers to rebuild by letting bought ships persist as a blueprint across a wipe.

 

I'd expect you will lose core blueprints you are not the creator of or which aren ot DRM free.

 

A wipe is a wipe, you'll have to start over, build up and earn enough to buy the ships again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...