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Warp removing any risk from pvp needs to end.


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With the current system players are able to mine and warp haul the rarest resources back to the safe zone triangle with absolutely no risk, just pure reward. This removes any need to tactically think of ways to haul these resources back, hire military escort services or scout their travel path. 


This of course will end with the release of Atmos pvp / territory warfare but this may well be a long time away. So I have a proposal that should be light on development resources that would bring the risk aspect back in to the game while also giving ways to avoid pirate warp exit point camping.

 

Warp cost change.
 

Currently the cost of warp is calculated from a formula that takes total warp distance multiplied by ship weight. You set the warp at A and are frozen until you reach B of which the warp cells used are removed from inventory on arrival and ship unlocks. 

 

A better way of doing this is for the Warp cost to start at 1 cell, the cost then increases while you are in warp due to warp distance you have covered. If you reach the warp cell limit of your inventory you will drop out of warp wherever you are on the line. Additionally you can now choose to exit warp at any time of the journey.


This allows players to change direction and move off the common travel routes without the need to slowboat. Doing this will also change your target planet / moon warp exit point.

 

Now finally until Atmos pvp / Territory warfare is introduced I recommend moving the warp exit points and warp interference radius of planets not in the safe zone triangle out in to the pvp area of space by around 5 - 10 SU. This will finally add some risk for the higher resource rewards from these planets.

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With the current system players are able to mine and warp haul the rarest resources back to the safe zone triangle with absolutely no risk, just pure reward. This removes any need to tactically think

As there is _no_ counter to attacks currently in game, I'd say that suggestion is rather one sided. "put guns on your ship" is not a counter.   With the amount of senseless and pointles

And i find it funny how either oblivious or willfully ignorant you are that you think many of us are "anti-pvp" just because we dont agree with YOU or boo in general and instantly go into "cry moar ca

13 minutes ago, Physics said:

Now finally until Atmos pvp / Territory warfare is introduced I recommend moving the warp exit points and warp interference radius of planets not in the safe zone triangle out in to the pvp area of space by around 5 - 10 SU. This will finally add some risk for the higher resource rewards from these planets.

I like a twist in this wherein you can choose to warp "closer" to a planet (coming or going), but risk some kind of RNG element damage either blanket or random with no skills or anything able to mitigate it. Pure chance. "You are warping too close to a gravity well, your ship may be damaged or destroyed. Are you sure you want to do this?". For me that would be a cool non deterministic twist to add some spice to warping.

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Warp is frikking stupid.

 

Warping should be the quick but risky way to get somewhere.
 

Slow boating at wide angles should be the slow but low risk method.

 

Put the warp exit point 2su out in pvp space, with maybe a handful of exits points so PVPers can’t camp it too easily. People can warp at their own risk. Or use scouts. Or build ships with enough tank and accesleration to get them through the 2su of pvp space.

 

This happened back in 2004 with eve online. They started the game allowing people to warp to within 0km of a jump gate. There was very little risk and it was boring, people insta travelled everywhere. They then (eventually after removing bookmarks) forced people to warp to 15km at the closest, thereby introducing some element of risk, and forcing people to think more tactically. Scouting and ship builds became more important.

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20 minutes ago, EatMyNoodle said:

Interdiction with the mechanics that come with it should fix alot of these issues.

I really look forward to some kind of warp interdiction mechanics. Hopefully further down the road they will get incorporated 😀

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1 hour ago, Physics said:

With the current system players are able to mine and warp haul the rarest resources back to the safe zone triangle with absolutely no risk, just pure reward. This removes any need to tactically think of ways to haul these resources back, hire military escort services or scout their travel path. 


This of course will end with the release of Atmos pvp / territory warfare but this may well be a long time away. So I have a proposal that should be light on development resources that would bring the risk aspect back in to the game while also giving ways to avoid pirate warp exit point camping.

 

Warp cost change.
 

Currently the cost of warp is calculated from a formula that takes total warp distance multiplied by ship weight. You set the warp at A and are frozen until you reach B of which the warp cells used are removed from inventory on arrival and ship unlocks. 

 

A better way of doing this is for the Warp cost to start at 1 cell, the cost then increases while you are in warp due to warp distance you have covered. If you reach the warp cell limit of your inventory you will drop out of warp wherever you are on the line. Additionally you can now choose to exit warp at any time of the journey.


This allows players to change direction and move off the common travel routes without the need to slowboat. Doing this will also change your target planet / moon warp exit point.

 

Now finally until Atmos pvp / Territory warfare is introduced I recommend moving the warp exit points and warp interference radius of planets not in the safe zone triangle out in to the pvp area of space by around 5 - 10 SU. This will finally add some risk for the higher resource rewards from these planets.

IMO, they should remove warping outside safe zone.  If you want to warp outside SZ, use warp beacon. Also they should nerf down the warping distance, so people plan it out, instead of just pressing warp button.

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All I can envision when people talk about warp interdiction is gank squads sitting around cackling about nuking any ship that warps in. Whats that players alternative? Oh yeah slow boat hours of RL time to get to a planet to still be intercepted by the gank squad, or add hours to try and maneuver around to come at the planet from non traditional travel lanes.

 

There is no simple solution here thats going to be palatable to the general player base. I would much rather see warp removed entirely and max speed cap be removed. My guess is the server tech simply cannot handle ships moving that fast which is largely why warp works the way it does.

 

If you want warp to require risk by dropping outside of safe zones etc , then weapon ranges should be dramatically reduced to allow some chance for a ship to out maneuver another and escape a fight. ECM or other defensive measure need to be added to under such a scenario.

 

You don't solve the lack of PvP by simply turning unsafe space into gank town.   

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10 minutes ago, kaku_sh said:

IMO, they should remove warping outside safe zone.  If you want to warp outside SZ, use warp beacon. Also they should nerf down the warping distance, so people plan it out, instead of just pressing warp button.

Considering how stupidly expensive is to build now I'd say ppl will just stop going to that location if it's too dangerous, or come with a solid escort, either way you're not gonna get your easy prey.

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2 minutes ago, Xennial said:

All I can envision when people talk about warp interdiction is gank squads sitting around cackling about nuking any ship that warps in. Whats that players alternative? Oh yeah slow boat hours of RL time to get to a planet to still be intercepted by the gank squad, or add hours to try and maneuver around to come at the planet from non traditional travel lanes.

 

There is no simple solution here thats going to be palatable to the general player base. I would much rather see warp removed entirely and max speed cap be removed. My guess is the server tech simply cannot handle ships moving that fast which is largely why warp works the way it does.

 

If you want warp to require risk by dropping outside of safe zones etc , then weapon ranges should be dramatically reduced to allow some chance for a ship to out maneuver another and escape a fight. ECM or other defensive measure need to be added to under such a scenario.

 

You don't solve the lack of PvP by simply turning unsafe space into gank town.   

The whole point of the Warp mechanics idea I posted is to lower warp camping. Being able to cancel warp and change warp direction randomises destination warp exit points. 

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15 hours ago, Physics said:

Now finally until Atmos pvp / Territory warfare is introduced I recommend moving the warp exit points and warp interference radius of planets not in the safe zone triangle out in to the pvp area of space by around 5 - 10 SU. This will finally add some risk for the higher resource rewards from these planets.

 

As there is _no_ counter to attacks currently in game, I'd say that suggestion is rather one sided.

"put guns on your ship" is not a counter.

 

With the amount of senseless and pointless pewpew currently in game and the amount of loopholes and borderline exploits giving attackers a massive advantage I'd say NQ needs to bring in proper countermeasures and introduce ways to deal with logged off beacon alts before giving more room to those looking for kills instead of fights

 

I'd say, while NQ proceeds on the PVP overhaul they have announced, why don't you find and engage with like-minded players where you will actually get a risk/reward ratio from combat  PVP..

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1 minute ago, blazemonger said:

 

As there is _no_ counter to attacks currently in game, I'd say that suggestion is rather one sided.

"put guns on your ship" is not a counter.

 

With the amount of senseless and pointless pewpew currently in game and the amount of loopholes and borderline exploits giving attackers a massive advantage I'd say NQ needs to bring in proper countermeasures and introduce ways to deal with logged off beacon alts before giving more room to those looking for kills instead of fights

 

I'd say, while NQ proceeds on the PVP overhaul they have announced, why don't you find and engage with likeminded players where you will actually get a risk/reward ration from combat  PVP..

For Solo play counter measures would currently be limited to avoiding detection and using speed. However encouraging solo players to use services such as military escort’s and scouting is never a bad thing. As already stated. Warp skipping is coming to an end one way or another. At least this is a much more softer approach.

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A better way of doing this is for the Warp cost to start at 1 cell, the cost then increases while you are in warp due to warp distance you have covered. If you reach the warp cell limit of your inventory you will drop out of warp wherever you are on the line. Additionally you can now choose to exit warp at any time of the journey.

This is something I consider valid. Warp just being like a really powerful engine and the cells being the fuel. But to keep that balanced some things that could make it more interesting:

- Ships can move while warping, but add a warmup period proportional to the warp distance (maybe weight too), so they aren't going to be easy prey but still not completely protected.

- Warping without enough fuel will result in the ship stopping at proportional distance covered of the jump related to consumed fuel.

- Emergency jumps using the above mechanics become possible, if one is being chasen and decides to use the warp engine to jump a few su away to escape a PVP, then this should be possible and encouraged.

 

Now, I don't really get what's with people who think the game should enforce PVP, I mean, how hard is it to some people understand not everyone is here for PVP, but to build stuff, chill after a long day, etc. I'm not saying PVP should not exist, it's part of the game mechanics, but anyone not wanting to participate on it should be able to, even if this involves spending some cash like the game currently offers via warp cells. Not everyone wants to spend their free time mining tons of stuff and selling it just to some random chad to come over and blow up their ships and potentially their resources too.

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58 minutes ago, Wolfram said:

This is something I consider valid. Warp just being like a really powerful engine and the cells being the fuel. But to keep that balanced some things that could make it more interesting:

- Ships can move while warping, but add a warmup period proportional to the warp distance (maybe weight too), so they aren't going to be easy prey but still not completely protected.

- Warping without enough fuel will result in the ship stopping at proportional distance covered of the jump related to consumed fuel.

- Emergency jumps using the above mechanics become possible, if one is being chasen and decides to use the warp engine to jump a few su away to escape a PVP, then this should be possible and encouraged.

 

Now, I don't really get what's with people who think the game should enforce PVP, I mean, how hard is it to some people understand not everyone is here for PVP, but to build stuff, chill after a long day, etc. I'm not saying PVP should not exist, it's part of the game mechanics, but anyone not wanting to participate on it should be able to, even if this involves spending some cash like the game currently offers via warp cells. Not everyone wants to spend their free time mining tons of stuff and selling it just to some random chad to come over and blow up their ships and potentially their resources too.

People will always have a large safe area to chill and not even think about pvp. From my understanding the vision has always been that if you want to reach and visit the contested planets and areas there will be risk. The reward is the higher tier resources and maybe other bonuses. The vision is coming, will it be a smooth or a 1 solid hit transition. Military escorts, pirates and scouts need business too.

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Except that the higher tier resources are already swiss cheese in all but the highest density ore (mostly claimed) areas. Most people only travel between planets now to pick up schematics or to literally sight see a planet they have never visited. I don't care at all if they open the game for the warp campers to have some fun, but I also doubt very much there will be many targets. More importantly most targets will be worthless in terms of loot, simply a new player with their hard earned ship being destroyed for no reason at all. I predict hordes of lonely and bored space pirates waiting for hours to squabble over a single XS core warp shuttle now and then.

 

The most silly part is that there is nothing to stop all the raging warriors from organising constant battles between each other and having PvP heaven everyday. But that is not really the point is it? the point is a pack of wolves preying on the outnumbered lambs simply for the fun of virtual murder.

 

There are enough people who desire PvP to have fights everyday. Think about that. It's a sandbox, go make some PvP fun. :D

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1 hour ago, Burble said:

There are enough people who desire PvP to have fights everyday. Think about that. It's a sandbox, go make some PvP fun. :D

Many of the players complaining and crying here are not looking for fights as they just might lose. They just want kills and for that they need access to those who are not interested in being a combatant as they are easy prey. Vector into them to intercept and most will turn tail and run.

 

There is a good number of PVP focused players who engage, spar, train and research the best ways to win a fight and spend a lot of time doing so.

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44 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Many of the players complaining and crying here are not looking for fights as they just might lose. They just want kills and for that they need access to those who are not interested in being a combatant as they are easy prey. Vector into them to intercept and most will turn tail and run.

 

There is a good number of PVP focused players who engage, spar, train and research the best ways to win a fight and spend a lot of time doing so.

I was going to make a fairly detailed post about why his version of things is basicly "DU is dieing lets go ahead and kill it while causeing as much damage as posible" when i got off work but you beat me to it and summed up anything i would have said in a much more succinct and polite way then i could. Then again he has demonstrated he doesnt care how viable something is afterall "just put gunz on yer ship and hire a bunch of merc military escorts as likely to betray you as not or join a big org durr hurr" is his standard response.

 

Sadly i am entirely unsuprised as at this point considering recent posts the boohoo org seem to no longer care if the game lives or dies. They just want to be the ones to light the fire while complaining the whole time the fuse burns.

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16 minutes ago, Arctic_fox said:

I was going to make a fairly detailed post about why his version of things is basicly "DU is dieing lets go ahead and kill it while causeing as much damage as posible" when i got off work but you beat me to it and summed up anything i would have said in a much more succinct and polite way then i could. Then again he has demonstrated he doesnt care how viable something is afterall "just put gunz on yer ship and hire a bunch of merc military escorts as likely to betray you as not or join a big org durr hurr" is his standard response.

 

Sadly i am entirely unsuprised as at this point considering recent posts the boohoo org seem to no longer care if the game lives or dies. They just want to be the ones to light the fire while complaining the whole time the fuse burns.

I do find these anti pvp posts fairly amusing because they appear to have no basis.
 

What are we trying to accomplish with them? Are you aiming for a U turn on the future vision of the game?
 

For example should we scrap any future plans to make the planets outside the safe zone triangle contested and lets have the safe zone bubbles on them remain forever?

 

If these remarks actually don’t have any basis let’s return to the actual subject at hand. 

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5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 introduce ways to deal with logged off beacon alts before giving more room to those looking for kills instead of fights

How about giving people a normal way to play sandbox pvp game ? That will deal with it.

 

Btw, care to share where do you park ?

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26 minutes ago, Physics said:

I do find these anti pvp posts fairly amusing because they appear to have no basis.
 

What are we trying to accomplish with them? Are you aiming for a U turn on the future vision of the game? For example should we scrap any future plans to make the planets outside the safe zone triangle contested and let the safe zone bubbles on them remain forever? If you these remarks actually don’t have any basis let’s return to the actual subject at hand. 

And i find it funny how either oblivious or willfully ignorant you are that you think many of us are "anti-pvp" just because we dont agree with YOU or boo in general and instantly go into "cry moar carebears" mode. If you actully read our posts most of us are PRO pvp and would LOVE pvp content in the game, hell many of us crave it likey as much or more then YOU. However, we also would like there to BE a game to enjoy the pvp in and for there to be a POINT to the pvp aside from "lulz me r blew up teh noobs"

 

Your vision would not help the game and infact hurts it and quite badly.....at this time. Currently the game is not in a state where limiting options and forcing players into fights that they are likely to lose due to broken mechanics, balance issies, missing features and a SCORE of other problems is nothing but a negitive for the game. Right now we have exactly 3 flushed out mechanics. Mineing, building and flying. thats it.

 

Currently industry is broken as "only 10% of players" are supposed to use it, and while currently a determined player CAN force their way into it, the cost is so obscene that its a bad joke to new players. PvP is full of issues as noted by MANY players. There is really only 1 gameplay loop, mine to make stuff to mine more. There is zero reward to PvP aside from people like you getting to laugh as you destroy some poor carebear. And exploration is a bad joke right now especially considering how bloody long it takes and how limited most players who actully have a jobs time is. Compounding all of this is the fact there are ZERO counters to pvp that prey can use. No ECM, no jamming of radars to make targeting harder, no stealth fields, no powering down, nothing. The only solution is to build a space only warship or to jump.

 

If you then further restrict the game and start making it so travel and by extension industry and trade is even more restricted and gated off as well as blow up ships of players when getting started to begin with is already such a huge problem, then all you do is drive yet more players off. Especially with all the problems listed above, and in addition to there being no POINT to pvp. no reward no nothing. Even T4 and T5 mats are literally worthless as there is no point to them beyond fluff. No one is going to willingly risk hours or days of work for NOTHING and having it forced upon them makes them just say "to hell with this" and leave. 

 

Infact many of us have pointed out once these are addressed your idea would be much more viable and that we even AGREE warp is a problem that needs to be addressed LATER when the game has more loops, less bugs, more features, better PvP countermeasures, and more things to do in general ontop of a REASON to PvP and a reward worth the risk.

 

Then again as i said you boohoos dont care you just want to watch everything burn so you can shoot up some ships.

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