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NERF MISSIONS!!!!


ELX987
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the following needs to happen for missions as its BS that people can make enough money for 1 warp beacon schematic in one 5 hour run of missions with an ubsurd amount of alts.

 

here's how this should be done:

 

-LIMIT APHIELIA PACKAGES PER SHIP FLAT OUT.

-REDUCE ALL MISSION REWARDS BY 20-30%.

-SET A WEEKLY LIMIT PER CHARACTER FOR HOW MANY MISSIONS THEY CAN DO THAT EQUATE TO OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF QUANTA.

 

100m+ an hour in this games economy is absurd, please NQ, do us all a favor and fix this.

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They're already nerfing it....

 

"

  • We are also altering the behavior around a construct’s maximum speed. Constructs’ mass will now impact their speed; the heavier the ship, the less its maximum speed will be. Thus, smaller ships will be able to catch up bigger ones despite the latter having bigger engines than the former.

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6 minutes ago, Thunderblaze said:

They're already nerfing it....

 

"

  • We are also altering the behavior around a construct’s maximum speed. Constructs’ mass will now impact their speed; the heavier the ship, the less its maximum speed will be. Thus, smaller ships will be able to catch up bigger ones despite the latter having bigger engines than the former.

while yes this does nerf missions to an extent, it doenst solve the problem entirely.

 

i think my proposal changes should be considered :)

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6 hours ago, ELX987 said:

the following needs to happen for missions as its BS that people can make enough money for 1 warp beacon schematic in one 5 hour run of missions with an ubsurd amount of alts.

 

here's how this should be done:

 

-LIMIT APHIELIA PACKAGES PER SHIP FLAT OUT.

-REDUCE ALL MISSION REWARDS BY 20-30%.

-SET A WEEKLY LIMIT PER CHARACTER FOR HOW MANY MISSIONS THEY CAN DO THAT EQUATE TO OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF QUANTA.

 

100m+ an hour in this games economy is absurd, please NQ, do us all a favor and fix this.

 

Problem is that you end up making the game unbearable for normal players, just to try and limit a few who are throwing money at the game to "win" using alts.

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6 hours ago, ELX987 said:

the following needs to happen for missions as its BS that people can make enough money for 1 warp beacon schematic in one 5 hour run of missions with an ubsurd amount of alts.

 

here's how this should be done:

 

-LIMIT APHIELIA PACKAGES PER SHIP FLAT OUT.

-REDUCE ALL MISSION REWARDS BY 20-30%.

-SET A WEEKLY LIMIT PER CHARACTER FOR HOW MANY MISSIONS THEY CAN DO THAT EQUATE TO OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF QUANTA.

 

100m+ an hour in this games economy is absurd, please NQ, do us all a favor and fix this.

Why don't delete free beta accounts instead, there are people who got 20 free beta accounts who means 20 free territories + huge amount of resources, missions and much more. Once they will have to pay for each account they own the sound will change, if not it means for Sh cash, from those players who will decide to pay for multiple accounts.

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6 hours ago, Thunderblaze said:

They're already nerfing it....

 

"

  • We are also altering the behavior around a construct’s maximum speed. Constructs’ mass will now impact their speed; the heavier the ship, the less its maximum speed will be. Thus, smaller ships will be able to catch up bigger ones despite the latter having bigger engines than the former.

 

I think this alone will be a hard nerf for the 'alts mission runner'

 

Assume they are using a ship with +70 kT and with the new patch their max speed would be 15.000km/h

For a disctance of 450su that would be 6 hours fly time (starting phase, landing phase and flying out of pipe is not counted in)

 

Personally I am interested in the results of max. speed nerf. I will check this out on the pts :D

 

 

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There a relatively simple solution to this problem which has worked for several other games with NPC delivery package rewards, Archeage and Silkroad to name a few from the top of my head. 

 

The way it works in these games, and i believe it would have worked for Dual Universe  reward for package delivery is dynamic.

 

The more packages get delivered in one location the lesser the reward becomes with each consecutive delivery. 

Consecutive delivery reward malus is not local, but global for all players (simulating reduced demand for the service in a given location) 

 

As an expample Thades to Ion destination may yield 8 mil on the first delivery,  but each consecutive delivery knocks off 10% of the mission reward

 

On the other hand random mission location on the other side of solar system will receive 5% boost on the top what the current yeld.

 

Net result of this that it becomes more difficult to serialize mission system with alts, more dynamic world that can occasionally have gold nugget there for sigle account guy.

And more fluid environment for the pipe campers to tackle.

 

Boosts never cover the delivery decay so eventually alll missions are barely worth doing at some point in the cycle.  The stat weights get reset once every 7 days.  Idealy this should happen at weekends when most people can benefit from "fresh start"

 

It has worked pretty well for other MMO's in one way or the other, no reason it would not have worked for DU

 

 

 

 

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Another nerf is that soon BETA KEY alts will be a thing of the past, and all players will be subbing ALTs, which will make a massive difference to the number of them in game.

Personally I would like to see a limited number of missions for each routes, which would then changes to an alternate route when used up.

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4 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

Another nerf is that soon BETA KEY alts will be a thing of the past, and all players will be subbing ALTs, which will make a massive difference to the number of them in game.

Personally I would like to see a limited number of missions for each routes, which would then changes to an alternate route when used up.

 

whales will be whales, most of those beta keys came from founder/contributor packages that cost more than the all the sub throughout beta. Those keys were never free, in fact in some cases they turned up more expensive than the corresponding sub throught beta.

 

The whole notion that beta key accounts were freeloaders is despicable. For the most part these came from people who opened their wallet to a DU dream long before you could even log in for one of those short alpha weekend tests.  Without them, there would no DU, regardless of how incomplete the game still is all these years later.

 

Post realease alt account numbers will not be heavily affected by paying sub on them.  DU has a very similar demgraphic as EVE. If the game scratches our itch and NQ treats us right most of the whales will happily solder on with their alt swarms, just like they did with EVE. (if don't have 4+accounts in eve, you're not taking the game seriously, and the sub is almost 2x what DU charges).

 

For the record yes, i'm one those with multiple accounts. And no i don't run npc missions, because i don't feel like spending 5 hours slowboating from A to B while watching startrek is worth any amount of quanta to me.  Player haul jobs are good enough for me. And i play mostly solo and i never got any free stuff fron anyone and never had issues with earning quanta.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:

There a relatively simple solution to this problem which has worked for several other games with NPC delivery package rewards, Archeage and Silkroad to name a few from the top of my head. 

 

The way it works in these games, and i believe it would have worked for Dual Universe  reward for package delivery is dynamic.

 

The more packages get delivered in one location the lesser the reward becomes with each consecutive delivery. 

Consecutive delivery reward malus is not local, but global for all players (simulating reduced demand for the service in a given location) 

 

As an expample Thades to Ion destination may yield 8 mil on the first delivery,  but each consecutive delivery knocks off 10% of the mission reward

 

On the other hand random mission location on the other side of solar system will receive 5% boost on the top what the current yeld.

 

Net result of this that it becomes more difficult to serialize mission system with alts, more dynamic world that can occasionally have gold nugget there for sigle account guy.

And more fluid environment for the pipe campers to tackle.

 

Boosts never cover the delivery decay so eventually alll missions are barely worth doing at some point in the cycle.  The stat weights get reset once every 7 days.  Idealy this should happen at weekends when most people can benefit from "fresh start"

 

It has worked pretty well for other MMO's in one way or the other, no reason it would not have worked for DU

 

100% and if the beta ends most ppl with 10+ beta key disappeared.

5 hours ago, Bazzy_505 said:

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/24/2022 at 11:33 AM, Kobayashi said:

Another nerf is that soon BETA KEY alts will be a thing of the past, and all players will be subbing ALTs, which will make a massive difference to the number of them in game.

Personally I would like to see a limited number of missions for each routes, which would then changes to an alternate route when used up.

True would be time for whale plan B. Use some of the accumulated quanta to buy other people’s alpha pack DAC’s while the supply is high. Then continue mission running with the small cost of buying DAC’s as needed every 30 days. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/24/2022 at 3:24 PM, Bazzy_505 said:

 

whales will be whales, most of those beta keys came from founder/contributor packages that cost more than the all the sub throughout beta. Those keys were never free, in fact in some cases they turned up more expensive than the corresponding sub throught beta.

 

The whole notion that beta key accounts were freeloaders is despicable. For the most part these came from people who opened their wallet to a DU dream long before you could even log in for one of those short alpha weekend tests.  Without them, there would no DU, regardless of how incomplete the game still is all these years later.

 

Post realease alt account numbers will not be heavily affected by paying sub on them.  DU has a very similar demgraphic as EVE. If the game scratches our itch and NQ treats us right most of the whales will happily solder on with their alt swarms, just like they did with EVE. (if don't have 4+accounts in eve, you're not taking the game seriously, and the sub is almost 2x what DU charges).

 

For the record yes, i'm one those with multiple accounts. And no i don't run npc missions, because i don't feel like spending 5 hours slowboating from A to B while watching startrek is worth any amount of quanta to me.  Player haul jobs are good enough for me. And i play mostly solo and i never got any free stuff fron anyone and never had issues with earning quanta.

 

 

 

 

Just for the record, I bought two alpha packages and have 6 ingame accounts.  I dont agree with your maths though, that cost me a lot less than subbing 6 account through the whole of beta.  I will probably only keep 2 subbed at launch and that is the same as all the people I play with (including those that might come back).   I agree that some players will keep their ALT but plenty wont.

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While taking away beta accounts will change mission running I certainly don't think it will fix it, in fact I think this will get worse after launch.  There are probably loads of people out there who don't have any beta accounts but would like to make a ton of mission cash and have, for example, money for 20 account subs for 1 month.  Right now they aren't going to want to spend the money because there's the threat of a wipe, but after the launch those people will have no reason not to sub 20 accounts all at once and make billions for a month.  It will cost less than the price of 2x 1 year subs to do that.

 

Also the speed nerf isn't going to fix this either.  At the moment it stops at 20K, which is 2/3 of the current limit.  2/3 of billions is still too much money and missions aren't limited by the time taken to actually fly them either because a lot of people do them AFK or semi-AFK.

 

Same for reducing the rewards.  All that does is put off the small-scale pilots.  If I have 3 characters I might not bother for 2/3 of the reward but if I have 20 it's still a lot per day.

 

Weekly limits per character would be quite punishing for regular players who want to grind up some cash.  It would stop mission running from being a trade you can do, you would also need to do another thing too.

 

I did write some suggestions in another post, but I think I used too many words because it didn't attract as much interest as this one.

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If some one willing to pay for 20 account in game, more power to them. that is after all 20 paid account to support the game.

 

But the game should not be balanced around or have requirements that makes it necessary to have more then 1 account.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Kurosawa said:

If some one willing to pay for 20 account in game, more power to them. that is after all 20 paid account to support the game.

 

But the game should not be balanced around or have requirements that makes it necessary to have more then 1 account.

 

 

The issue here is really how much gain one gets with the 20 accounts.  If 20 accounts let someone make 5x as much money per hour, for example, I'd be fine with it.  But as things are 20 accounts literally allow you to make 100x as much per hour (spent playing) than you could with one account because of the way missions multiply out by taking multiple missions at once and the way the effort per mission goes down because taking 100 packages is not really harder than taking 10.

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So my suggestion to you would be.

 

A: Get 20 friends in DU (does DU have 20 players, trololo?)

B: Get 20 Accounts yourself

C : Ignore what other have and enjoy your own game. bonus some [filtered] pays for 20 account meaning the over all health of the game increases for you

D : All of the above

Edited by Kurosawa
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I think an easy fix is just to drop mission packages for interplanetary missions, entirely. Have Aphelia request large quantities of mid tier elements and ore be delivered to distant markets, prioritizing materials that are lowest or out of stock at each destination.

 

Payout/market listing will be based on cost to produce with no skills and a set amount per km travelled, with a higher per km payout the more you haul. Since risk is solely on the player, no collateral for these missions would be required.

 

This eliminates warp restrictions, instead making it a cost consideration. A “no warp” option could exist for a pay rate bonus, since you’re being careful with the cargo and slow boating. It also creates and fulfills a REAL demand for both warp cores and elements, opposed to making packages out of thin air.


This way, people running alts will have to either produce large amounts of different elements or buy them at the market, which creates industry demand either way. And since the missions are based on need, what is requested will always be changing - it will be harder to set up a single industry to haul and game the system.
 

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On 3/24/2022 at 3:09 AM, ELX987 said:

the following needs to happen for missions as its BS that people can make enough money for 1 warp beacon schematic in one 5 hour run of missions with an ubsurd amount of alts.

Hyperbole much?

 

Let's say you do the most expensive mission (9.5M/trip), you need about 95 accounts for that warp beacon schematic. That means 100 packages = 50 Extended XL containers, and just 171Kt for the packages, add containers, engines, shields, brakes. Can we even make a ship with those specs?

 

Then we need to log in 190 times with userid/password add mission, get package, deliver package, transfer quanta. Switching between two accounts is already a massive pain in the behind!

 

Now, let's say that we get all the stuff into and out of orbit with multiple elevator(s)/trips and a massive space only ship, you should never fly directly between two points, so a significant detour, won't make the trip 5 hours, add to that all the lifting and dropping into orbit and that will take a LOT longer, not to mention a significant amount of infra structure. The biggest issue with that though isn't the time or the investment that it takes, it's the huge ship that says to pirates, kill me! Such an operation is obvious from the ground if you hang around a bit at Aphelia or go looking above, in space. You can easily start taking out those ships. You want it stopped? Go pirating yourself!

 

I'm pretty sure a single player/account could make a 100+ million quanta per week, if playing it save, if not, 175 million quanta isn't outside of the realm of possibilities. Pirates spending that amount of effort on a single small ship wouldn't happen often...

 

And are those beta keys 'free'? People paid for them through working as a streamer or paying for them via the KS. For some buying a subscription for a 100 accounts is chump change. But managing those 100 accounts would be an absolute pain imho! Beyond a handful of accounts it becomes more akin to work...

 

And why does this not actually happen, beyond your mathhammer mind skills? Have you seen the recent prices for Warp Beacons? If what you said is actually happening, we wouldn't have so few Warp Beacons available and the price wouldn't have (over the last month) doubled. People would have setup huge Warp Beacon factories a month after the mission system was introduced, that would only have increased production in the months that would follow...

 

If someone wants to spacetruck 24/7/365, then let them. If someone wants to build, manufacture, design, mine, pvp, etc. 24/7/365, let them.

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I want the change for missions,

but the way author suggests is no good at all. NQ is already limiting us in different options, - are people happy about it?...

 

I wish missions have cool-down as once per 2 weeks for heaviest missions (1800 ton per package) to once a day for 100 ton package mission.

With the same said, I wish reward to be increased 2-3-times for heaviest missions.

 

Why so? -- The pirates will have more fun awaiting, searching for a target, and delivery guys will enjoy the delivery better.

More missions will be used, and not only the top-rewarded once.

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