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This communities toxicity is getting out of hand.


Shaman
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I understand that some of you are angry at NQ for the latest patch and other various shenanigans. In a way, I agree with you; i'm not picking any sides here. But this criticism has turned into toxicity. Some people believe that it is acceptable to pick apart and beat Novaquark with hate instead of calmly and kindly giving helpful advice on how to make the game improve. Some people believe whenever someone comments a different opinion about the 0.23 update it is their primary objective to thrash back and pour salt on them because 'no one can say nice things about the update'.  Some people believe that since the game has turned out slightly different from what they expected they must alert and discourage everyone from playing the game because it is a 'scam*'. Some people believe that just because their experience is ruined they must ruin it for everyone else. And some people just jump on the salt bandwagon even if they have never set up an industry unit in their life.

 

I will repeat what I just said. I am NOT saying that 0.23 was either a good or bad of an update. If you hate it, that's fine. But people like this are becoming a large excrement deposit on the Dual Universe community. You might have heard that recently a forum conversation got out of hand when an individual exposed a LinkedIn profile of an NQ employee. That is flat out unacceptable. If you are one of the people like this, instead of beating this game and its 50 employees down, just LEAVE. This game would be much better without people like you anyway.

 

* I have watched the trailers many times now. in my disgustingly baist opinion it's not. (sacré bleu!) misleading? maybe slightly. But let's be honest here, for games that require player interaction, they all are. Take a look at the Starbase trailer for example. Just like Dual's trailer, they both include massive fight sequences, which take up half of the trailer runtime. Sure they are technically possible, but definitely aren't ever gonna happen apart from the rare few events and such.

 

I know that I will get a wave of salt from this post, just like my previous ones. so please be civil. I won't be responding to any of the people that are hating for the sake of hating or people saying the game is bad without giving at least a bit of constructive criticism. If you feel so inclined, just shout at a wall instead. 

 

 

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The word "toxicity" is very often abused in this day and age to silence any and all difference in opinion. No doubt a product of the terrible overly "politically correct" culture that has infested every aspect of media and social networks. I am politically incorrect to the core and will always be. People that in your opinion are "toxic" and "salty" have the right to be so if they so wish. And in my experience most of the "toxic" arguments come precisely from people who actually love the game and would want it to succeed, but are repeatedly let down by irrational decisions on the part of the developers or a complete disregard of any and all suggestions and constructive criticism which could in fact help bring the game to the right track.

 

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6 minutes ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

The word "toxicity" is very often abused in this day and age to silence any and all difference in opinion. No doubt a product of the terrible overly "politically correct" culture that has infested every aspect of media and social networks. I am politically incorrect to the core and will always be. People that in your opinion are "toxic" and "salty" have the right to be so if they so wish. And in my experience most of the "toxic" arguments come precisely from people who actually love the game and would want it to succeed, but are repeatedly let down by irrational decisions on the part of the developers or a complete disregard of any and all suggestions and constructive criticism which could in fact help bring the game to the right track.

 

These toxic people act like NQ isn't responding to suggestions and criticism, which flat out isn't true. NQ has made some mistakes, there is no denial in that. But these people are also denying the good that NQ have done after the update (nerfing t1 prices, resetting skills, adding a public test server, adding new ways to make money like the mission system, being transparent to the community after the update). This is a one of a kind game, and they won't always get it right. Novaquark have learnt their lesson. I wish we could just leave 0.23 behind us honestly.

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1 hour ago, Shaman said:

I will repeat what I just said. I am NOT saying that 0.23 was either a good or bad of an update. If you hate it, that's fine. But people like this are becoming a large shit stain on the Dual Universe community. You might have heard that recently a forum conversation got out of hand when an individual exposed a LinkedIn profile of an NQ employee. That is flat out unacceptable. If you are one of the people like this, instead of beating this game and its 50 employees down, just LEAVE. This game would be much better without people like you anyway.

Look, everyone is entitled to give their opinion. Even if it is one very aggressive and disconnected from reality like this one you just gave.

Then other ppl are free to disagree like I am disagreeing with you

 

So lets go in parts:

 

1 hour ago, Shaman said:

But people like this are becoming a large shit stain on the Dual Universe community

Look, no matter who you are, you don't have the right to call ppl "shit stain".

If you want don't want to be a "negative community member" you replace "shit stain" with "negative community member" and treat ppl properly. Or you become one of the ppl that you don't like.

 

1 hour ago, Shaman said:

You might have heard that recently a forum conversation got out of hand when an individual exposed a LinkedIn profile of an NQ employee. That is flat out unacceptable

Completely agree with you. That guy, that made a privacy breach by exposing a LinkedIn profile of an NQ employee was wrong. Not just wrong, but very wrong.

But he was not "very wrong" because of his opinion of the performance of NQ dev team. He was very wrong only on exposing private data on NQ.

1 hour ago, Shaman said:

If you are one of the people like this, instead of beating this game and its 50 employees down, just LEAVE. This game would be much better without people like you anyway.

In your opinion, all those ppl that bashed NQ, but did not expose private information, should LEAVE?
Who the hell do you think you are to say that someone who invested 400€ 5 years ago on the project and has been filling up bug reports ever since the bug report site went online are not welcome and should LEAVE?

 

Should I tell you that your 6 days of account and 5 posts on the forum make you someone without any informed opinion? NO.

You are a valid player. One that has the full right to have noob questions, noob ideas and zero experience on this game.

You have the right to get an answer from us and a proper argumentation when we dispute your claim or opinion.

 

BUT SO DO WE.

If we feel like there is some kind of gain to tell that NQ sucked, we have EVERY RIGHT TO DO IT.

 

Got it?

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40 minutes ago, Shaman said:

But these people are also denying the good that NQ have done after the update (nerfing t1 prices, resetting skills, adding a public test server, adding new ways to make money like the mission system, being transparent to the community after the update).

No one in there actually denied that having a pts is good, nor that nerfing t1 was bad. 

If "adding new ways to make money like the mission system" will hold true is just projection, not good per se for now because it's not live yet. Noone knows if it's actually a new viable way to earn money or not

Don't really know what you mean by transparancy after the patch, bringing up 2 dev blogs about new....hmmmm...."mechanics" (which aren't really full nor even basic mechanics) is not transparent, it's spinning the wheel. Transparency would be when they actually answered long standing questions about the wallets. But they don't 

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6 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Who the hell do you think you are to say that someone who invested 400€ 5 years ago on the project and has been filling up bug reports ever since the bug report the bug report site went online are not welcome and should LEAVE?

 

Just because someone invested money into the game doesn't mean that they have some special privilege to be toxic now. I don't care how much they invest, if they are being toxic they shouldn't be here.

4 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

Look, everyone is entitled to give their opinion. Even if it is one very aggressive and disconnected from reality like this one you just gave.

Also, I just love that you are calling me salty when you are the one calling me an aggressive noob who is disconnected from reality. my forum account is very new. my interest and subscription for the game, however, has lasted much longer.

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Funny part, that whole this issue is already resovled for all parties (Blaze even admitted, that he gone overboard with this and apologized). I was little bit overjuiced with mortal sins too, yet humbly admitted it too. Other participants were relativly chill.

 

It seems to me our guy just jumped on stage for some posing time in brand new shining armor. Defender of weak, punisher of shitdoers. Yet kinda rolled 1 on d20. 

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13 minutes ago, Lethys said:

No one in there actually denied that having a pts is good, nor that nerfing t1 was bad. 

If "adding new ways to make money like the mission system" will hold true is just projection, not good per se for now because it's not live yet. Noone knows if it's actually a new viable way to earn money or not

Don't really know what you mean by transparancy after the patch, bringing up 2 dev blogs about new....hmmmm...."mechanics" (which aren't really full nor even basic mechanics) is not transparent, it's spinning the when. Transparency would be when they actually answered long standing questions about the wallets. But they don't 


I don't know if you have seen this Video yet, but NQ seems pretty transparent. As for the mechanics, you can test them on the Public Test Server. If they turn out to be an unreliable source of money, you can suggest it to change, as it is still in development and they are taking suggestions.

 

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9 minutes ago, Shaman said:

Just because someone invested money into the game doesn't mean that they have some special privilege to be toxic now. I don't care how much they invest, if they are being toxic they shouldn't be here.

They did not only invested money.

They invested time. Not just time playing the game.

Time testing features (directly at NQ request)

Time filling up bug reports

Time writing forum topics with feedback, warnings and solutions so NQ could improve DU to the point you can play it.

 

They did not do this for 2 months. They did it for years. Free of charge. With the only payment being the dream of a great game and the hope that that week's release would run more than 2 hours.

 

They have the right to ask for accountability from NQ. If asking for accountability is being toxic. Then the entire justice system and the entire journalism of this planet is toxic.

 

Also. I would like for you to apologize for using "shit stain".

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Basically what @joaocordeiro says. I agree 100%.

I will not join this discussion as op insults people, wanting to show constructive critics the way out, expects salt and in the same breath calls for being civil.

 

This is bait.

 

3 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

Yet kinda rolled 1 on d20. 

I couldn't help laughing.

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Just now, joaocordeiro said:

They did not only invested money.

They invested time. Not just time playing the game.

Time testing features (directly at NQ request)

Time filling up bug reports

Time writing forum topics with feedback, warnings and solutions so NQ could improve DU to the point you can play it.

 

They did not did this for 2 months. They did it for years. Free of charge. With the only payment being the dream of a great game and the hope that that week's release would run more then 2 horurs.

 

They have the right to ask for accountability from NQ. If asking for accountability is being toxic. Then the entire justice system and the entire journalism of this planet is toxic.

 

Also. I would like for you to apologize for using "shit stain".

 

you can still ask for accountability without being toxic, you know.

 

and no I won't. shit stain is a pretty accurate allegory.

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13 minutes ago, Shaman said:

I don't know if you have seen this Video yet, but NQ seems pretty transparent

Thats exactly the problem tho. Its just a video and what they want to do. That can change, as you admitted too in another thread. So why take any of that for granted? It's just what they plan to do, but there are no concrete Designs on there and how mechanic x will work.This is just PR, not transparency.

Like I said, they could answer org wallet questions and asked feedback but dont do it anyway.

 

13 minutes ago, Shaman said:

As for the mechanics, you can test them on the Public Test Server. If they turn out to be an unreliable source of money, you can suggest it to change, as it is still in development and they are taking suggestions.

Testing mechanics on a random test server doesn't tell you anything about if that mechanic will provide a reliable income or not. That still has to be seen with the live server. And no one knows if those transport missions will reward ppl good money or not. 

Giving feedback there wont be any different from alpha I suspect. Done that for years, early bugs, UI feedback and all the other ideas still untouched and nothing changed. So nope, not interested at all in pts, others can try  ill just judge the patch after it goes live

 

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1 minute ago, Lethys said:

Thats exactly the problem tho. Its just a video and what they want to do. That can change, as you admitted too in another thread. So why take any of that for granted? It's just what they plan to do, but there are no concrete Designs on there and how mechanic x will work.This is just PR, not transparency.

Like I said, they could answer org wallet questions and asked feedback but dont do it anyway.


Testing mechanics on a random test server
doesn't tell you anything about if that mechanic will provide a reliable income or not. That still has to be seen with the live server. And no one knows if those transport missions will reward ppl good money or not

 

 

If you go on the test server, graphical improvements, org wallets and the mission system are already implemented. Obviously, what is on the test server is not going to be the final product, But IMO that is better than a concrete design, since that means there is room for change and improvement. They have shown what they will do from now on in the video and they have provided everything they had promised so far.

 

BTW What I was talking about in that other thread was that a person was thinking the game was falsely advertised because the starting safe area moved from a 20km area around the arkship to a seperate moon somewhere in early development (smh).

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1 minute ago, Shaman said:

and no I won't. shit stain is a pretty accurate allegory.

 

I will tell you a story.

When I 1st join this community, several years ago,

I came to this forum and asked NQ for info about if NPCs where going to be a thing.

I specifically said I did not wanted anyone else but NQ to answer me.

Yet some ppl replied with their opinion or interpretation of the information available.

 

I was really upset that ppl did not respect my wish to see NQ answer it and flipped on some guy, an old timer.

The community all came to me and defended that guy, bashing me for my response to him.

 

At that time, full of selfishness and afraid that ppl would set me aside I said I was sorry and asked for forgiveness. At that time I did not meant it, I just wanted to contain the situation.

After I did this, all the other guys started to give me some links with the answer I wanted.

Later on that thread, NQ replied. The entire community was quite happy with the new info.

 

It was much later that I understood that that old timer, and the other guys there replied to me, breaking my request, because they wanted to help me. To give me a reply. To make me a part of the community.

 

Over the years I have had many debates with those same members from that day. Some times, i disagree with them, sometimes i agree with them.

Sometimes I don't even agree on how they frame their posts.

And I blame some of them for bad choices that NQ did.

 

But never again I doubted the love they had for this game and for this community.

 

 

You may not feel it now.

But if you are still a member of this community in 3 years, I guarantee you that you will regret your choices today. Just like I regret mine that day.

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5 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

I will tell you a story.

When I 1st join this community, several years ago,

I came to this forum and asked NQ for info about if NPCs where going to be a thing.

I specifically said I did not wanted anyone else but NQ to answer me.

Yet some ppl replied with their opinion or interpretation of the information available.

 

I was really upset that ppl did not respect my wish to see NQ answer it and flipped on some guy, an old timer.

The community all came to me and defended that guy, bashing me for my response to him.

 

At that time, full of selfishness and afraid that ppl would set me aside I said I was sorry and asked for forgiveness. At that time I did not meant it, I just wanted to contain the situation.

After I did this, all the other guys started to give me some links with the answer I wanted.

Later on that thread, NQ replied. The entire community was quite happy with the new info.

 

It was much later that I understood that that old timer, and the other guys there replied to me, breaking my request, because they wanted to help me. To give me a reply. To make me a part of the community.

 

Over the years I have had many debates with those same members from that day. Some times, i disagree with them, sometimes i agree with them.

Sometimes I don't even agree on how they frame their posts.

And I blame some of them for bad choices that NQ did.

 

But never again I doubted the love they had for this game and for this community.

 

 

You may not feel it now.

But if you are still a member of this community in 3 years, I guarantee you that you will regret your choices today. Just like I regret mine that day.

 

fine. If you feel so inclined, I have now replaced the word 'shit stain' with 'excrement deposit'. hope that helps.

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31 minutes ago, Shaman said:

 

If you go on the test server, graphical improvements, org wallets and the mission system are already implemented. Obviously, what is on the test server is not going to be the final product, But IMO that is better than a concrete design, since that means there is room for change and improvement. They have shown what they will do from now on in the video and they have provided everything they had promised so far.

 

BTW What I was talking about in that other thread was that a person was thinking the game was falsely advertised because the starting safe area moved from a 20km area around the arkship to a seperate moon somewhere in early development (smh).

Yes, and That's good that they announce things and then also implement them - thats developing a mechanic. Presenting what they have in mind and then testing it on a pts. That's normal.

 

Its not "transparent" though in the sense of "how will you solve problem X with mechanic Y". They just drop a trailer, depicting what they want to do (like they did in the past years) but then don't ever talk again about that feature in depth. Like answering questions of how exactly this mechanic will play out or why they chose to only have 2 rights for org wallets. If they really take feedback then they would answer ppl why they only have 2 rights and why there are no subdivisions.

 

Also, that trailer is nice for building up hype but it doesn't really adress any mechanics in depth. How do they want energy to work? Why that way? What pvp changes are coming? How does Asteroids work? And a ton more. Open communication would be:

Here is X. We envision it to do Y (and this is what NQ NEVER EVER DID). What do you think of it? Ok, we talked about it and now mechanic x works like Z and is on pts for testing. 

Ofc they cant do that because 1) They want to release in less than 10 months amd 2) They dont have neither Manpower nor the money to do that. They have to stick to a plan they have and cant change any mechanics in depth if they're stupid because of money and time. And That's fine really, but at least ppl want to know that. 

 

Same with safezones too - du was ALWAYS advertised with 2 safezones: ASA (arkship secure area) and MSA (moon secure area). Until suddenly they changed it to be 3 whole planets plus a Shell of every single planet. Thats fine and all but they never actually communicated why they did that and how long that will stay. And how they plan on going further from here.

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3 hours ago, Shaman said:

You might have heard that recently a forum conversation got out of hand when an individual exposed a LinkedIn profile of an NQ employee. That is flat out unacceptable.

 

Being that individual, yes it was not the right thing to do (and I apologized for it as I should) even when the criticism I have about NQ and some of their choices is very valid IMO.

 

Honestly, I would not say there is much toxicity in these forums at all, there is a lot of frustration and unhappiness, much for good reason. Many of us are invested in the game and NQ has not really shown to be capable of actually listening and taking the community concerns into account. It would be great if they did as it would allow the community to grow and it would build loyalty and commitment as well as ability to get passed mistakes.

 

But at the same time, it is their choice to make and as they  have choosen to mostly ignore the community concerns, they have lost a good number of (early) backers and continue to do so. This has brought hem to a point where they can no longer make choices based on what is best for the game but must do so based on what brings in the next round of subs to be able to keep the lights on. Going public on Beta was a big one on that front and it has not exactly had the result they were looking for I am sure.

 

Yes, the test server is a good step and I hope they actually use it and not just see it as a way to stop players from having concerns. How that pays out is yet to be determined. Otherwise, it will make little difference. The "results of NQ listening" you mentioned are not uncommon to us who have been here for a while and the pattern around them is pretty well established. As some of these happened well before you joined, I must expect you have no actual first hand experience with said events.

 

You are new around here so I'm sorry but you have at  best a rather limited understanding of what has happened over the past 3.5 years and so, while you are free and entitled to have an opinion, I can't put much weight on it in the context of the topic due to your lack of knowledge and experience in the community.

 

 

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I never saw the linkedin post in question, so I am a bit confused reading some of the statements here.

Was it not just a link to a public linkedin account? So while maybe in bad taste to post, it was that person who made the choice to have a public linkedin account with full name etc.

I mean all I have to do, is search for people with novaquark in their resume to find them on that site (if they have public accounts).

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53 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

So while maybe in bad taste to post, it was that person who made the choice to have a public linkedin account with full name etc

Linkedin exists for workers to find new jobs and employers to find new workers. 

Not to incite a angry mob against a profile. 

 

Do you understand the consequences if every one on this community went to his profile and gave a bad review of this work? 

 

Do you understand that he would have his profissional career ruined? 

 

It is fairly easy to find the address of someone. There is probably some place, public where your address is. But how would you feel if someone blamed you without any trial for something and distributed your address to the angry mob? 

 

I fully agree with nq and the op on that being wrong. 

 

But i dont agree with the existence of this topic. 

 

The mistake was done on a already closed topic. 

Every one involved spoke to the moderators in private. 

A apology topic was made. 

 

Now the op, apparently looking for attention made a new one, to pretend to be a community moderator and defining what is proper of the community and what is not. 

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6 hours ago, Shaman said:

But this criticism has turned into toxicity.

I stopped reading after this.  You are so oblivious to your won ignorance it's scary.  Criticism is not toxicity.  Toxicity is not criticism.  You're just looking for brownie points.  When you try and group the two together, YOU are the problem.

Toxicity is the word of the attention seeker, instigator, and power hungry teenager.  

Those of us criticizing the game are frustrated, angry, confused, disheartened, unmotivated... but this is coming from the potential we see in the game.

I have only seen one instance of something that can be called toxic, THIS POST. 

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The OP's comment about toxicity itself being laced with words like "shit-stain" is weapons-grade ironic and really raised a chuckle from me. Classic case of self immolation.

 

As for that other thread...

 

I think many of us at times get a bit too erm... animated... shall we say. Heaven knows I'm one for that.

 

And yes, I think that dropping a link to someone's info was a bit over the top perhaps, but what is this about "private information"?....  If you do a search for novaquark on Linked In or even just Google, you can find anyone who publicly states they work there and their names or pseudonyms are listed for all to see...
People really need to take more responsibility for what they do and show online and remember that online information facing outwards is in the public domain and WILL come back to haunt them in the future.

This is not the same as Doxxing which is digging up private information about someone, like, say having a link to someone's private profile and sharing the private data with everyone via screenshot...
Although, maybe that's what the poster did and it was removed...  that's what censorship does, raises further questions... 

Since JC is the figurehead and the visible face of the company, he -like Sean Murray of Hello Games was- is to an extent fair game though I really would never want to point a finger at anyone specific in the team or any middle management because they, like you and me are really just trying to do their best and earn an honest living under challenging conditions.

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8 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

Funny part, that whole this issue is already resovled for all parties (Blaze even admitted, that he gone overboard with this and apologized). I was little bit overjuiced with mortal sins too, yet humbly admitted it too. Other participants were relativly chill.

 

It seems to me our guy just jumped on stage for some posing time in brand new shining armor. Defender of weak, punisher of shitdoers. Yet kinda rolled 1 on d20. 

Sorry, yesterday was a new low even for you guys. I can put up with you all making stuff up and quoting it as fact but putting up peoples personally information and stuff, that is a dirty scumbag move.  I really used to respect the guy, but yesterday he just proved himself to be another scumbag troll who doesnt care about anything but proving himself right.  The underhand BS you lot are pulling now to try and make the game fail is beyond a joke.  

Just wondering, if NQ came out with an 'apology' and 'admitted they got a couple of thing wrong', would you be fine with that?

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OPs right it's like a pack of wild hyenas around here lately.

 

So you're frustrated.  

 

If you can't calm down enough to talk to NQ with some respect, how can you expect them to take the time to listen to you?

 

If you've completely given up on respectful communication, then what are you really still doing here?

 

edit: and by "around here" i mean the five of you here on the forums

 

 

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It's funny how individual cases are now being generalised and all are lumped together in the same pot.

Nevertheless, an apology was received and the matter is closed. There is no reason to ride the dead horse now. (especially since the data is also public)

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

edit: and by "around here" i mean the five of you here on the forums

If you're not more specific then those give ppl will do what I do:

No idea who you mean, so I'll just ignore it because nothing what you said applies to me. Moving on 

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