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Pity - this game had such potential...


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41 minutes ago, Lethys said:

well thing is, you *still* have faith in them doing the right thing - which I had back then but lost it about 1,5 years ago..

While razor thin at this point, yes I do. Frankly I have taken precautions in game to be able to step away any moment. I'm at the point where unless NQ shapes up and finally starts showing they are actually serious about their community and their game I may move away.. And some will rejoice no doubt if that happens ;)

 

I think a big difference is that I have always realized that what NQ was promising and saying they wanted to achieve would not be possible for them and so my expectations, while still feeling good about the game, were lower and I guess more realistic than a lot of other players. To see them even manage to not meet my expectations  I guess is a disappointment in itself.

 

I want to be clear here, I actually think there is a some pretty smart and passionate people working at NQ and there is a lot of them with a fair amount of understanding of the business and what should happen. It is IMO those in middle and upper management positions that are pretty much clueless about what needs to happen and what needs to change. And that is where the "we heard you but we're not listening" comes from. Unless these people come to their senses and start changing or step aside for those that can accomplish change to take over, NQ will not be abel to pulll this one out of the fire. 

 

Frankly, I think NQ should drop the Paris office and focus on/relocate to Montreal entirely. It may hurt in the short term but it will give the company and the game a chance going forward. As I expect they are pretty strapped for cash by now, something will need to give and completely moving to one location, which then logically would be Montreal, makes actual sense..

 

 

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and quite honestly: what do you expect from the mission system?

Honestly? not much. Everything here once more points at an idea from one person thinking this is the one mechanic that will save the game. And it won't as there is no framework to support the feature which in itself could be great just like the schematics system is fine but without the mechanics to feed into such a system (and yes, as is the case in EVE where they got the idea from). What NQ seems to want to do is very much like the jobs board in Eco, it works really well there because the game actually drives and promotes player interaction and co-operation at every level, not shove "you _will_ work in/as a group/org, we will nerf your options and buff org options until you do" down the players throats the way NQ is currently doing in DU.

 

NQ will once again rush this, release a badly tested patch with a broken/half done feature which needs a lot of work and in the process they wil break more stuff as well since there is a lot of stuff that is broken in game and just covered up by band aids.

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11 hours ago, Burble said:




So,  please don't take this with any feeling other than I am genuinely asking because I don't understand.... why are you still on this forum ? What are you and a variety of others doing here other than helping to turn away new players with your obvious displeasure at the product they are previewing?

 

I'm here because I'm a stubborn, stupid optimist... Just like I am with Star Citizen, which is finally (finally, thank the gods) starting to shape up into something epic with -and this is key- *visibly accelerating* momentum... At the beginning of Star Citizen's development in 2012, the scope was small and tame, but in 2014 (IIRC) with $25m or 10x the original planned budget of $2.5m already in the bag, Chris Roberts sent out a request to vote on the forums for the following:  


1) Continue and complete Star Citizen  as originally planned and start work on SC 2 or...

2) Reconsider the game from the ground up with a much expanded scope commensurate with the new income..

 

WELL over 80% chose option 2...  So SC was basically scrapped and restarted... The progress was so painfully slow, building up a proper studio, working with subcontractors who were basically pants and having to redo entire swathes of the game *again*  Many started to call it Scam Citizen,  Star Shitizen, Stop Citizen, Star Cynical and other names...  Yet it's now a very enjoyable if buggy Alpha with epic graphics and some cool game play loops. Yet it causes almost as much constant hate as the US  Dems vs Republicans shitshow that is the US political scene...

 

I was like this, positive beyond reason, with No Man's Sky, which I have played hundreds of hours and has basically become a verb: "To Pull a NMS" means to drag yourself kicking and screaming from the ashes and rise as a phoenix...

 

Another game that is controversial that I yet have hope for is Cyberpunk 2077... I am currently playing it through on the PC and though it was not as revolutionary as originally promised, the somewhat gelded game that the PC version became is nevertheless eminently playable  (I have >100 hrs so far).. If CDPR do add the patches promised, they may even have a Skyrim on their hands since the world of Night City and the badlands is just that good.

  
So I'm here watching the growth of Dual Universe in the hopes that the devs somehow manage to pull this game off... It's got so much promise and potential that it would be a hideous shame for it to crash and burn... and the years are dragging by and funding has all but dried up, so I'm only borderline positive right now...  

However... I am still here *Because* I hope DU will fulfil its potential

(Just don't ask me about how I feel about Hellion)

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13 minutes ago, Lethys said:

you started the quote with the wrong sentence there. it started with this:

in regards to the ****MISSION SYSTEM**** there is nothing else to do. 

If you think that building some random ships or interacting with others or race tracks or mazes or puzzles or pvp will be part of the mission system then please elaborate how that's going to work.

This *MIGHT* be ingame at some point but again: DU lacks so many different mechanics for this that they simply can't implement that now. And again, that doesn't mean it will never be in the game - but that is simply a hope and dream and what DU *could* do, not what it actually does

You're correct. I misinterpreted your comments. My apologies. They've mentioned pvp missions, so I expect there will be some sort of player bounties available. I'm not confident they will be useful in the current game, but I think they'll exist.

 

For the other things I mentioned, they probably won't be part of the mission system as the criteria for success/failure is not that well defined. If there's a mission to reach a specific waypoint or trigger it could be used as a reward system for puzzles/mazes. You can already get close to this with dispensers though.

 

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3 minutes ago, fiddlybits said:

You're correct. I misinterpreted your comments. My apologies. They've mentioned pvp missions, so I expect there will be some sort of player bounties available. I'm not confident they will be useful in the current game, but I think they'll exist.

for pvp missions to even be viable / useful there are loads of mechanics missing - that's why this might/may/who knows when be ingame, CERTAINLY not now

 

4 minutes ago, fiddlybits said:

For the other things I mentioned, they probably won't be part of the mission system as the criteria for success/failure is not that well defined. If there's a mission to reach a specific waypoint or trigger it could be used as a reward system for puzzles/mazes. You can already get close to this with dispensers though.

If/maybe/it would be cool.....that's exactly what I'm saying. Dreams and hopes - nothing more. 

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Frankly, when they promoted the game with Build large, Spacestations as large as the moon, play alone or with others, Freedom rich PvP Player driven Market, build civilization!

I did not think it would turn up like this.

What we got was something totally different:

Build on large cores what is  very small, spacestations very small and large is possible by placing more cores that you cannot link or merge with eachother so you have a borgcluster and not a station, Do not play alone or we will Find you and limit you and also we give out gifts to large organizations but dont tell, Freedom within limitations and boundaries, Plaer driven to NPC markets, rich through exploids not PvP, build puzzles not civilazation.

 

@NQ-AdminI (probably we, if i know the others who are critical as well as i think)  still love the original concept and do think NQ has some really great developers but the strategical desicions made do the project more harm then good and when you look at what it Can be verses what it is going to be, the road we are walking now leads to a limited vanila modless SE server with Clanginized PvP and defect B&R and only lvl1 handdrilling allowed with extra restrictions on production blocks and progression steps cost an exponential factor per level.

 

I already have SE with less restrictions, why would i need one with more?

 

Please live up to your potential!  Do not linger in satisfaction for dreams half progressed, Be what you Can be, Live Life Die another day, Roll Back instead of growing molds, Be Brave and go there where No Company has gone before! Reach out to the community because We did hear you, we did read your posts and we do see the strugle that is there. We Do want to support, But Damn you make it so hard for us to actually do so.

 

Critizism and comments are easier given to those/things you carry close to the heart as you want them/it to flourish. You do not punish your kids because you hate them, you try to teach them ways to be glorious adults.

 

Dont see our comments and critizism in any other way, We love your game, we love your work. But the direction this leads to we have seen fail before and we want to keep this glorious project from going into That route.

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1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

I'm here because I'm a stubborn, stupid optimist...

 

2 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

However... I am still here *Because* I hope DU will fulfil its potential

Nailed it. At the moment, its not worth the time for me. But maybe it will be in the future.

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9 hours ago, Burble said:


Staying on board just to watch/gloat over the boat sinking seems like a waste of precious time. 

I view it as a form of standing on the bow and screaming "iceberg" because the ships initial course looked like a destination that I would have enjoyed.

 

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On 1/24/2021 at 4:01 AM, Aaron Cain said:

Please tell me more how to actually do this, i am playing since day 1 beta and i am hearing this for months now, I tried to do this from scratch even with no daily quanta as i am bugged. And Guess what, attempt 1 to 7, Fail. It is not possible to do this.

The only thing you Can do is put a STU up, mine the living shit out of you, sell it to a market, buy stuff, try to build something and see that the stuff you bought and the lack of talents, as you put all in mining and cargo, made it so you cannot even escape the planet. So I guess this "a couple of sessions to mine you silly is about a month fullscale mining.

Something is definitely wrong in this aspect of the game, the whole road to space should be manageable without the daily quanta. Especially since there are people who do not get it and are ignored a solution.

 

But I just took on designer jobs and already designed a few offices, a city, few ships, bridges, hovers, almost everything that goes. Andit is alot more fun then just mindless mining.

Maybe the best advice would be, If you cant do the grind, another profession you must find.

I did it, i came in a few days before schematics were a thing. I still have not really trained any flying skills. I build ships that get in and out of Alioth atmos fully loaded 8-10 Large containers.

i have 3 medium ships, 2 small, one XS, all on large containers, 1-10. i have millions from mining. thats what i use now to make and sell ship designs. just spent 4 day, and 15 hours a day building my best hauler yet, and already have a buyer for 75million tokenized. and 15 million for blueprints...so i am doing well, and if i can fly it, then anyone with skill could fly it better. i design all my ships for my skills, so that it is going to haul, and fly, with next no problems. cause crashing a ship sucks azz.

 

but there are issues with the game no doubt. when your game crashes for no reason, play all day no problems, then all of a sudden you can do anything without the game crashing on you.  the flying bugs where your yaw or pitch gets stuck, so you have to try and land while doing loopty loops, or spinning like a top. issues that alpha players have delt with since jump. 

 

i also think they need to touch on a tiny bit of optimization just for the lag at markets.

they should remove all the ships that never leave the markets, or all the crap at markets.

or they should start charging a dock fee, to stay on market deck for more than 3 days, it starts charging your character exponetial ammounts...first day 100k then 300k, then 900k, then 1.8 million, then 3.6 million each day your ship is there, and you are active, but if you are offline and not active after a month, they take all your money, for dock fees, and then DELETE YOUR STUFF left at market. or make it open for anyone to take it. 

 

but money is not a issue, it is just boring as hell to go after, mine your tile, sell that stuff, get off SANCUARY as fast as possible and go to Alioth, mine some more...and then start making a warp hauler, and go mine better places to make the money you want to do the things you want. 

 

But making money is not a issue. i mean i have a massive hauler that can carry 3 or more Kilo TONS that MILLIONS OF ORE....and i have only been playing since 2 days before the schematic thing. thing is i make all my money now selling ship designs to others... cheap route buy my blue print, more expensive route buy my ship...

 

why is the blue prints cheaper, becasue i keep the ship... why is buying the ship more expensive, becasue now i have to take a blue print, go fetch or mine for mats to make voxels, so i can BLOOP another one out for sell.  I only make haulers too. becasue mining is 99% of the game.

 

 

 

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On 1/24/2021 at 11:40 AM, Deintus said:

I hear the same thing about how "wonderfully fast and easy" it is for a new player to get warp engines and haul 100s of tons with ease. Until I see a youtube series demonstrating this I will never believe it. The journey I had at DU was nothing like that. The literally at least a hundred posts of other players demonstrate I was not alone in my struggles as well

 

A lot of these comments ar coming from players who have been in the game for some time and who understand what it takes to build such a ship. They forget that for anew player who knows nothing this is absolutely not something they are ready for. The experience we have built in game as early backers or even those who got in at beta is so valuable going forward an dit's for a bit part that experience that makes me feel that if NQ were to wipe it would not actually be much of an issue for many of us and we'd be up and running very quickly, especially with the blueprints and talent points retained.

 

Those of us who were here September 2017, we remember the trouble of getting to space and the way the flight system worked back then. While there is a lot of things we can complain about and frankly rightfully so, a much has also gotten a lot better over time. The flight mechanics are still not _really_ good but compared to the first iteration it is pretty solid and easy to get to grips with.

 

So no, for a new player it's not easy. DU has a massive initial hump because it's mostly designed by nerds who forgot that their player base is mostly people who need to be guided beyond a 2 hour introduction.. The tutorials take a lot of knowledge for granted as well and really could be more basic and explain better why things work and how. But that is an entire topic by itself ;)

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On 1/25/2021 at 8:57 AM, Lethys said:

If you think that building some random ships or interacting with others or race tracks or mazes or puzzles or pvp will be part of the mission system then please elaborate how that's going to work.

This *MIGHT* be ingame at some point but again: DU lacks so many different mechanics for this that they simply can't implement that now. And again, that doesn't mean it will never be in the game - but that is simply a hope and dream and what DU *could* do, not what it actually does

why wouldn't it be part of the mission system? I can fully see some ppl comissioning simple but time consuming building or terraforming tasks over the mission system.

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The mission system will obviously be limited to features supported in the game, so the list of possible mission types isn't that long.

And some of them like building etc. would be hard to quantify in a mission planner interface.

 

Here are the ones I can think of.

 

- Various transport type missions

- Rescue

- Mining

- Bounty

- Escort

- Building/terra-forming?

- Racing (timed waypoint) mission?

- Crafting?

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1 hour ago, vylqun said:

why wouldn't it be part of the mission system? I can fully see some ppl comissioning simple but time consuming building or terraforming tasks over the mission system.

Sure, maybe one day. But not for now imho. In order to do that you would first need proper temporary rdms rights in order for that guy to do that task. And you would need to split your territory and assign only the plot you want to have flattened. Both aren't ingame atm and thats why I said those tasks MAY be there in the future but the very basic mechanics to do that are missing so I can't see it happening in the near future

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I love the game and have put a great many hours into it, not as many as some and a good bit more than others, however watching NQ slowly rip it to shreds and push away players seems to me a path that can not long continue. I can only hope that they pull it out of the fire but I know I for one WONT put any cash in on this game as it is and if I was a new player I would be sorely upset at what i got after paying. As soon as I get my invite for Starbase Ill be joining there and keeping an eye on DU from a distance and hoping for a day when/if they finally pull their head from betwixt their legs and start actually listening to their employers.

 

Either that or JC can sit in his ivory tower playing the game his way all on his lonesome. Hell, I might even join him from time to time for some pew pew until the server crashes on us.

Napoleon Dynamite GIF - ForeverAlone NapoleonDynamite Handball GIFs

 

I agree totally with the OP. This game does have a great deal of potential, and I really really do hope they can get past whatever it is they are doing now and push out the fantastic game we all know this can be.

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On 1/25/2021 at 9:11 AM, GraXXoR said:

I'm here because I'm a stubborn, stupid optimist... Just like I am with Star Citizen, which is finally (finally, thank the gods) starting to shape up into something epic with -and this is key- *visibly accelerating* momentum...

As much as I still hope that DU will succeed some day - it is much worse compared to SC. Chris Roberts has decades of experience in game design and an insane budget for a crowd founded project. NQ has no experiences and maybe already run out of cash. The NQ guys are so smart that they seem to think they don't need to consult experts. In the result they are wasting time and money reinventing the wheel and repeating all errros that have been made in game history. There are problems everywhere - in their internal processes, in the game tech, in the game design and even in the vision of the final game. They have a very long way to go.

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On 1/23/2021 at 6:37 PM, ishcal said:

Way back when I pitched in as a patron, I did so because the game had such potential.  The voxel editing capability in designing ships and bases is what had me hooked, but back then there were a lot of mechanic issues with the game, so I gave it a break for a year.

 

Now that I'm back, I've given it a month and if this is the direction DU is heading, meh - no thanks. 

 

First off, making a game that is fundamentally one of the most versatile BUILDING games out there, and forcing pvp content makes about as much sense as braille buttons on a drive thru ATM.  Sure, I've heard the rumor that everything you need is in the safe zone, but with the addition of these ridiculous schematic roadblocks in EVERY step, half those being sold only in pvp space for amounts I frankly have no way of earning once I restarted is about as exciting a prospect as gouging my eye out with a spoon.

 

Only add to that the fact that in order to buy the few things I can afford after waiting for 3 or 4 days (with the daily allowance we're given), making those trips take at least an hour (after you factor in the crappy engines I can only afford now and the inevitable crash and ship repair which happens EVERY time I get booted offline during landing), well that's just like putting a bit of lemon juice on the spoon before the eye gouging begins.

 

Maybe as someone who would love a game I can dive into and start building is too much to ask for, but under the current construct this clearly isn't worth my time.  I suppose I'll keep my eye open and see if anyone wakes up and focuses on some of these fundamentals, but I'm not holding my breathe...

Tbh if you were looking for just a building game, this probably isnt for you.
 

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On 1/28/2021 at 3:11 PM, blazemonger said:

Let's be fair, DU is mostly a building game, at least currently.. besides maybe being a mining simulator

If this is just a building game, we would not be here because this is not one of the best building game. The creative design for this game and how they advertised this to us is this is a single-shard, building, economic, PVP, player-driven game, something that has never been done before, something we have been dreaming about but no company have taken the risk of undertaking. We are here for the package! This cannot survive as a building game alone!

 

How is it that this is a single-shard but the game doesn't feel social at all in-game? How come the economy of the game is so broken that it just fails to immerse? 

 

It fails so bad on the package that other MMOs are a lot better than this because they have more to offer! 

 

This game has a lot of potential, even Revelation Online has a lot of potential, even BDO has a lot of potential, even Bless Online has a lot of potential, but look what happened to those games? It's not about the f*cking potential, OK?! If things will not go in the right direction, it doesn't matter! 

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On 1/23/2021 at 12:37 PM, ishcal said:

Way back when I pitched in as a patron, I did so because the game had such potential.  The voxel editing capability in designing ships and bases is what had me hooked, but back then there were a lot of mechanic issues with the game, so I gave it a break for a year.

 

Now that I'm back, I've given it a month and if this is the direction DU is heading, meh - no thanks. 

 

First off, making a game that is fundamentally one of the most versatile BUILDING games out there, and forcing pvp content makes about as much sense as braille buttons on a drive thru ATM.  Sure, I've heard the rumor that everything you need is in the safe zone, but with the addition of these ridiculous schematic roadblocks in EVERY step, half those being sold only in pvp space for amounts I frankly have no way of earning once I restarted is about as exciting a prospect as gouging my eye out with a spoon.

 

Only add to that the fact that in order to buy the few things I can afford after waiting for 3 or 4 days (with the daily allowance we're given), making those trips take at least an hour (after you factor in the crappy engines I can only afford now and the inevitable crash and ship repair which happens EVERY time I get booted offline during landing), well that's just like putting a bit of lemon juice on the spoon before the eye gouging begins.

 

Maybe as someone who would love a game I can dive into and start building is too much to ask for, but under the current construct this clearly isn't worth my time.  I suppose I'll keep my eye open and see if anyone wakes up and focuses on some of these fundamentals, but I'm not holding my breathe...

As a brand new player this has been beyond bizarre and counterintuitive. The schematics thing is the only reason i am closing my account. Not only did they add the schematics roadblock... there is no documentation about it for new players (Its a bit insane that the codex will tell you anything you want to know about coding a LUA control scheme for calculating orbital mechanics but if you want to make an ingot in a refinery you are screwed) and nobody is making tutorials on YouTube that reflect the new industry changes because why would they? Grinding is necessary but should have a logic to it and a clear path forward. One simple adjustment of of eliminating schematics for any item you can create in the nanopack would make all the difference in the world and keep me onboard.  

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