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Pity - this game had such potential...


ishcal
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Way back when I pitched in as a patron, I did so because the game had such potential.  The voxel editing capability in designing ships and bases is what had me hooked, but back then there were a lot of mechanic issues with the game, so I gave it a break for a year.

 

Now that I'm back, I've given it a month and if this is the direction DU is heading, meh - no thanks. 

 

First off, making a game that is fundamentally one of the most versatile BUILDING games out there, and forcing pvp content makes about as much sense as braille buttons on a drive thru ATM.  Sure, I've heard the rumor that everything you need is in the safe zone, but with the addition of these ridiculous schematic roadblocks in EVERY step, half those being sold only in pvp space for amounts I frankly have no way of earning once I restarted is about as exciting a prospect as gouging my eye out with a spoon.

 

Only add to that the fact that in order to buy the few things I can afford after waiting for 3 or 4 days (with the daily allowance we're given), making those trips take at least an hour (after you factor in the crappy engines I can only afford now and the inevitable crash and ship repair which happens EVERY time I get booted offline during landing), well that's just like putting a bit of lemon juice on the spoon before the eye gouging begins.

 

Maybe as someone who would love a game I can dive into and start building is too much to ask for, but under the current construct this clearly isn't worth my time.  I suppose I'll keep my eye open and see if anyone wakes up and focuses on some of these fundamentals, but I'm not holding my breathe...

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I don't know if I can address all of what displeases you about the game. But I can definitely say that 'only being able to afford crappy engines' is a complete fallacy. Even as a brand new player it should take no more than a couple of decent sessions to mine and earn yourself a reasonable crappy hauler. A few more sessions filling her up should earn you enough to start building a decent 300-400t hauler. Filling her up should only take a couple more sessions and you've got some millions to play with. I know mining is boring, but we cannot expect to start a game like this and be warping around the universe within a few hours.

This is even just as a solo player, starting with the Nq speeder, without even looking for any co-operative gameplay (MMO?) or any other more creative ways to get some funding for your better engines. 

Failing that, pay someone a little extra to bring you what you need or hire a taxi service. Damn, find me in game and I'll run you over to whatever planet you need to visit to get you back on your feet.

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I kinda understand the OP in terms of the meh.... Seriously, what has changed in this game since last summer? Have any of the core mechanics been improved? Any much needed QoL features implemented? Any new game loops introduced?  Not really.

This game has stagnated with ancient bugs unfixed and new bugs only being patched after they are used by people to gain massive advantages over others... JC and his crew are seemingly content to apply band-aid after band-aid to the broken basics and allow rampant disparity between those who noticed certain bugs and... ahem.. unintended price points...  remain un "punished" , fostering bad will and FOMO among the player base.

However, between 150,000 ℏ per day and JC's ridonculous bots sucking ores out of the game for market-crippling, stupid-level money, there is no excuse for being poor, really.

 

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The schematics system in itself is fine, it works perfectly in EVE and that is what NQ is shooting for here. But they forgot that in EVE there is a bit more to this than just popping a schematic into an industry unit and neglected to consider/implement the game loops that actually feed into this one to make it work.

 

NQ is just in way over their heads with DU and they seem unable to properly manage the progress of development, rushing from one band aid to the next while the bleeding underneath just continues untreated.

 

DU still has massive potential and promise, the question is whether NQ in it's current state with its current company culture is able to be the company to bring that out to the surface.

 

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4 hours ago, Burble said:

Even as a brand new player it should take no more than a couple of decent sessions to mine and earn yourself a reasonable crappy hauler. A few more sessions filling her up should earn you enough to start building a decent 300-400t hauler. Filling her up should only take a couple more sessions and you've got some millions to play with. I know mining is boring, but we cannot expect to start a game like this and be warping around the universe within a few hours.

Please tell me more how to actually do this, i am playing since day 1 beta and i am hearing this for months now, I tried to do this from scratch even with no daily quanta as i am bugged. And Guess what, attempt 1 to 7, Fail. It is not possible to do this.

The only thing you Can do is put a STU up, mine the living shit out of you, sell it to a market, buy stuff, try to build something and see that the stuff you bought and the lack of talents, as you put all in mining and cargo, made it so you cannot even escape the planet. So I guess this "a couple of sessions to mine you silly is about a month fullscale mining.

Something is definitely wrong in this aspect of the game, the whole road to space should be manageable without the daily quanta. Especially since there are people who do not get it and are ignored a solution.

 

But I just took on designer jobs and already designed a few offices, a city, few ships, bridges, hovers, almost everything that goes. Andit is alot more fun then just mindless mining.

Maybe the best advice would be, If you cant do the grind, another profession you must find.

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I hear the same thing about how "wonderfully fast and easy" it is for a new player to get warp engines and haul 100s of tons with ease. Until I see a youtube series demonstrating this I will never believe it. The journey I had at DU was nothing like that. The literally at least a hundred posts of other players demonstrate I was not alone in my struggles as well.

 

Is it possible? Maybe... But the road I see described to get there falls dead under a niche style game that I myself don't care for, nor did I see advertised.

 

When you throw in the complete lack of communication from the company to the player base, as well as mismanaged and even ignored fixes of basic ... 'mistakes' ... Any good left is quickly trampled out and makes someone like me stand in the line for the spoon with lemon and salt on it like OP.

 

Plus side.. still huge potential.. and could very well enter a chrysalis and emerge a GOAT yet.

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Even if it there was some specific way (please show me) for new players to 'easily' get decent progress without running the mining gantlet, after 0.23 the entire premise of the game is broken.

 

Remember, the initial promise was:

Quote

In other words, in Dual Universe, you can invent a new life for yourself in a world without limits, where almost anything is possible. We aim to make a massively multiplayer roleplaying sandbox on PC like never seen before.

And 0.23 is the complete antithesis of this.

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7 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I kinda understand the OP in terms of the meh.... Seriously, what has changed in this game since last summer? Have any of the core mechanics been improved? Any much needed QoL features implemented? Any new game loops introduced?  Not really.

This game has stagnated with ancient bugs unfixed and new bugs only being patched after they are used by people to gain massive advantages over others... JC and his crew are seemingly content to apply band-aid after band-aid to the broken basics and allow rampant disparity between those who noticed certain bugs and... ahem.. unintended price points...  remain un "punished" , fostering bad will and FOMO among the player base.

However, between 150,000 ℏ per day and JC's ridonculous bots sucking ores out of the game for market-crippling, stupid-level money, there is no excuse for being poor, really.

 

Earning quanta is easy, terribly boring though; i actually think removing those bots would open up more options.

 

As it stands you go to a planet, mine (hopefully a mega node) and then transport it to the nearest market and sell to bots.

 

I do this on outer planets because frankly allioth is too laggy for my liking and tbh i hate the idea of scanning the other two in the hope of finding a mega node; if they removed bots at least people could start offering to haul and we'd finally have an actual market.

 

My fear is the damage is done, so much quanta entering the game because there really is nothing else to do than mine and sell to bots, any change now is going to put new players or newer players at a disadvantage........i find the concept of bot orders maddening tbh, if they ever wipe remove every bot order aside from schematics.

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7 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Please tell me more how to actually do this, i am playing since day 1 beta and i am hearing this for months now, I tried to do this from scratch even with no daily quanta as i am bugged. And Guess what, attempt 1 to 7, Fail. It is not possible to do this.

The only thing you Can do is put a STU up, mine the living shit out of you, sell it to a market, buy stuff, try to build something and see that the stuff you bought and the lack of talents, as you put all in mining and cargo, made it so you cannot even escape the planet. So I guess this "a couple of sessions to mine you silly is about a month fullscale mining.

Something is definitely wrong in this aspect of the game, the whole road to space should be manageable without the daily quanta. Especially since there are people who do not get it and are ignored a solution.

 

But I just took on designer jobs and already designed a few offices, a city, few ships, bridges, hovers, almost everything that goes. Andit is alot more fun then just mindless mining.

Maybe the best advice would be, If you cant do the grind, another profession you must find.

 

5 hours ago, Deintus said:

I hear the same thing about how "wonderfully fast and easy" it is for a new player to get warp engines and haul 100s of tons with ease. Until I see a youtube series demonstrating this I will never believe it. The journey I had at DU was nothing like that. The literally at least a hundred posts of other players demonstrate I was not alone in my struggles as well.

 

Is it possible? Maybe... But the road I see described to get there falls dead under a niche style game that I myself don't care for, nor did I see advertised.

 

When you throw in the complete lack of communication from the company to the player base, as well as mismanaged and even ignored fixes of basic ... 'mistakes' ... Any good left is quickly trampled out and makes someone like me stand in the line for the spoon with lemon and salt on it like OP.

 

Plus side.. still huge potential.. and could very well enter a chrysalis and emerge a GOAT yet.

Aaron, please tell me you were not trying mining on Sanctuary? And yes, that is what I was saying mate, you can find another profession that is more interesting if you don't want to mine grind your way to the first few million. If you are not getting your daily quanta then that needs to be fixed. I'm not rich in the game by any means but I would happily front you the money to build a decent hauler. I'll even build one for, tokenize it and you can pay it back after 30 mins of mining on Alioth.

Deintus, Warp engines are a few steps further, but hauling a few hundred tonnes with ease? Sure. Let's see here:

 I have priced up a space capable hauler with 128,000L capacity. I have not built this exact model but I'm pretty sure it will have acceptable performance. Based on best current market prices


Dynamic core S - 6000
Command seat controller - 5,000
Atmos fuel tank S x 4 - 10,000
Space fuel tank S x 2 - 6,000
Adjustor S x 10 - 2,000
Space engine S x 4 - 12,000
Space engine M x 2 - 26,000
Atmos Engine M x 2 - 30,000
Atmos Engine L x 2 - 160,000
Wing M x 6 - 90,000

Stabalizer S x 2 - 6,000
Space Brakes M x 3  - <10,000
Atmos Airbrake M x 5 - 10,000
Hover Engine M x 5 - 10,000
Hover Engine L x 4 - 52,000
Container M x 2 - 80,000
Container hub - 7,000
Tier 1 honeycomb 40 cubic meters - 15,000

total cost -  600,000 quanta

Add in a negligible overhead for a full fuel load. Nitron you can make with surface rocks in your space pants.
 

Even without doing anything at all other than claiming your log in bonus that is only 4 days 'work'. I think the spec for this build is generous for what it needs.

Let's imagine that this hauler can only carry half the container capacity before crashing is too much of a risk:

64,000L of T1 ore with silly old bots in action again now is an instant income of ~ 1,600,000
You don't even have to wait for someone to buy it...
Mining any random unclaimed hex on Alioth will fill 64,000L within 1 hour or you are doing something wrong.

1.6mil can build you a new hauler with more than double the budget of the first one.

Like GraXXor said. No one has any excuse for being poor in the game right now.
 

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2 hours ago, Burble said:

 

Aaron, please tell me you were not trying mining on Sanctuary? And yes, that is what I was saying mate, you can find another profession that is more interesting if you don't want to mine grind your way to the first few million. If you are not getting your daily quanta then that needs to be fixed. I'm not rich in the game by any means but I would happily front you the money to build a decent hauler. I'll even build one for, tokenize it and you can pay it back after 30 mins of mining on Alioth.

Deintus, Warp engines are a few steps further, but hauling a few hundred tonnes with ease? Sure. Let's see here:

 I have priced up a space capable hauler with 128,000L capacity. I have not built this exact model but I'm pretty sure it will have acceptable performance. Based on best current market prices


Dynamic core S - 6000
Command seat controller - 5,000
Atmos fuel tank S x 4 - 10,000
Space fuel tank S x 2 - 6,000
Adjustor S x 10 - 2,000
Space engine S x 4 - 12,000
Space engine M x 2 - 26,000
Atmos Engine M x 2 - 30,000
Atmos Engine L x 2 - 160,000
Wing M x 6 - 90,000

Stabalizer S x 2 - 6,000
Space Brakes M x 3  - <10,000
Atmos Airbrake M x 5 - 10,000
Hover Engine M x 5 - 10,000
Hover Engine L x 4 - 52,000
Container M x 2 - 80,000
Container hub - 7,000
Tier 1 honeycomb 40 cubic meters - 15,000

total cost -  600,000 quanta

Add in a negligible overhead for a full fuel load. Nitron you can make with surface rocks in your space pants.
 

Even without doing anything at all other than claiming your log in bonus that is only 4 days 'work'. I think the spec for this build is generous for what it needs.

Let's imagine that this hauler can only carry half the container capacity before crashing is too much of a risk:

64,000L of T1 ore with silly old bots in action again now is an instant income of ~ 1,600,000
You don't even have to wait for someone to buy it...
Mining any random unclaimed hex on Alioth will fill 64,000L within 1 hour or you are doing something wrong.

1.6mil can build you a new hauler with more than double the budget of the first one.

Like GraXXor said. No one has any excuse for being poor in the game right now.
 

Judging from those elements you listed I'd say that ship could easily carry around 150/200t of material, probably more with a few talents 😛

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4 hours ago, Burble said:

Like GraXXor said. No one has any excuse for being poor in the game right now.

Has nothing in the world to do with being poor....

 

I hadn't played for a couple of weeks, so I decided to log in and check out the markets before I replied.

 

First, I will say that prices you state on Alioth are 'close enough for our discussion'. But that was for the items that were on market. Hell there wasn't even any basic atmos engines at all. So what does the new player do about that? Wait?? Back to more mining for more money for machines, schematics, containers, etc.

 

Hey, I get it, you enjoy it, thats fine. I do not want to do a mining grind. When I spend 2-4 hours on a game, I want to feel like I am achieving something. This game doesn't do that for me. It falls into a specific type of game player, voxelmancy and mining. The only players that seem to feel this game offers more are those that were here pre .23

 

You have to remember you were here in alpha. You have resources, connections, elements long before the .23 drop. You have your position established. Makes a difference.

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11 minutes ago, Deintus said:

You have to remember you were here in alpha. You have resources, connections, elements long before the .23 drop.

You do know that the game was fully wiped a week before beta start right?

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20 minutes ago, Deintus said:

Has nothing in the world to do with being poor....

 

I hadn't played for a couple of weeks, so I decided to log in and check out the markets before I replied.

 

First, I will say that prices you state on Alioth are 'close enough for our discussion'. But that was for the items that were on market. Hell there wasn't even any basic atmos engines at all. So what does the new player do about that? Wait?? Back to more mining for more money for machines, schematics, containers, etc.

 

Hey, I get it, you enjoy it, thats fine. I do not want to do a mining grind. When I spend 2-4 hours on a game, I want to feel like I am achieving something. This game doesn't do that for me. It falls into a specific type of game player, voxelmancy and mining. The only players that seem to feel this game offers more are those that were here pre .23

 

You have to remember you were here in alpha. You have resources, connections, elements long before the .23 drop. You have your position established. Makes a difference.


I have only been playing for 3 months or so.


And I also get it mate, you don't enjoy the game anymore.

So,  please don't take this with any feeling other than I am genuinely asking because I don't understand.... why are you still on this forum ? What are you and a variety of others doing here other than helping to turn away new players with your obvious displeasure at the product they are previewing?

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1 hour ago, Burble said:

So,  please don't take this with any feeling other than I am genuinely asking because I don't understand.... why are you still on this forum ? What are you and a variety of others doing here other than helping to turn away new players with your obvious displeasure at the product they are previewing?

Can't answer for him but I'm here because it's hilarious. And  because I want ppl to get to know NQ for what they did wrong, or why it's only sweet talk the CMs do, but nothing ever changes. 

 

And yes, idc if you don't understand that - I'll keep Posting and laughing 

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21 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Can't answer for him but I'm here because it's hilarious. And  because I want ppl to get to know NQ for what they did wrong, or why it's only sweet talk the CMs do, but nothing ever changes.

 

I'm not going to lie but coming from someone who pretty much was on the other side of the fence when myself and others already were voicing concerns about what we now see, that is oddly well.. interesting.. ;) 

I know I wasn't wrong then and it's actually not great to realize this as I hoped NQ would be able to turn this around over the course of the past few years. Unfortunately we see that they really have not learned much from the mistakes they are and were well entitled to make. DU is a massive undertaking, probably a bit too much for an inexperienced team for their first project and it shows. I still hope they get it together and back on track but time is running out for them. I have no doubt the internal belief is that he mission system will be the one thing that saves the game.. If they get it right it may well be the case. I think it's more likely they will once more rush this into the live server and deliver a half done system which causes more problems that it solves. I just wish they stopped and paused to really get this right but that may not be an option for NQ anymore.

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1 hour ago, Burble said:


So,  please don't take this with any feeling other than I am genuinely asking because I don't understand.... why are you still on this forum ? What are you and a variety of others doing here other than helping to turn away new players with your obvious displeasure at the product they are previewing?

Fair.

 

1 - My subscription time is not yet up. Won't be much longer now.

 

2 - Watching and seeing if new players coming in feel as I do, and so far quite a few do.

 

3 - Truthfully, @Lethys has a point, it is funny/sad watching the forums.

 

TBH I thought I was attempting to keep as calm and objective as I could because there are far worse things I could have posted than I already have. That is, considering I feel misled by ads among other issues.

 

Mistakes will happen, but the depth of the mistakes and the handling of the mistakes is what matters most.

 

https://www.guru99.com/alpha-beta-testing-demystified.html

 

The above should help illustrate some of my concerns as well as a final duty I have as a beta *cough* (alpha) player... As such a player, I am supposed to provide feedback.

 

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Lethys, Deintus, I'm not against your viewpoints.  I definitely have no urge to get into any keyboard warrior antics. I see all the same things as you do. Have been gaming on and off since windows 3.1

Just prefer to either sail the boat I am in with my best effort. Or jump out and swim to shore without looking back.

Staying on board just to watch/gloat over the boat sinking seems like a waste of precious time. 

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Sometimes it's just a matter of principle. And sometimes it is also good to be against the Echo Chamber. If the presence helps to bring the mistakes of the game and the company's decision  to the attention of other customers, then I don't see it as a waste of time. This also makes the popcorn taste better until you receive the Kickstarter rewards. 2016-2017-2018-2019-2020-2021-soon

 

Can't wait for the ark ship ID that was printed by the company ID card printer. It's not like the kickstarter was in 2016.

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8 hours ago, blazemonger said:

I'm not going to lie but coming from someone who pretty much was on the other side of the fence when myself and others already were voicing concerns about what we now see, that is oddly well.. interesting.. ;) 

I know I wasn't wrong then and it's actually not great to realize this as I hoped NQ would be able to turn this around over the course of the past few years. Unfortunately we see that they really have not learned much from the mistakes they are and were well entitled to make. DU is a massive undertaking, probably a bit too much for an inexperienced team for their first project and it shows. I still hope they get it together and back on track but time is running out for them. I have no doubt the internal belief is that he mission system will be the one thing that saves the game.. If they get it right it may well be the case. I think it's more likely they will once more rush this into the live server and deliver a half done system which causes more problems that it solves. I just wish they stopped and paused to really get this right but that may not be an option for NQ anymore.

well thing is, you *still* have faith in them doing the right thing - which I had back then but lost it about 1,5 years ago... I realized that they just won't (and can't) deliver what was promised and they now just try to save it from being a complete trainwreck. It's just a conglomerate of what there could be - dreams, hopes, well articulated ideas to get ppl dreaming. But that's all DU is. The actual game and the actual mechanics aren't even close to how they pitch the game now or in the past.

 

and quite honestly: what do you expect from the mission system? There isn't anything to do in DU except mining. So the ONLY mission there will be is: bring me X amount of ore/elements to Y (created by players) and maybe some "NPC" missions by aphelia to transport goods from market X to market Y to have a second true quanta faucet. Nothing more will be there because DU lacks so many other mechanics. Sure, they can build on that later on, but for now (and I suspect for some months) that will be the only thing to do with missions. 

Will that be enough for ppl? We will see

Will that new money faucet even be viable? We will see

But imho it will be so basic and rudimentary that it won't get ppl truly interested - since those "bring me X ore/elements" is already in the game with market orders. But oh wait, economy doesn't work....

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2 minutes ago, Lethys said:

There isn't anything to do in DU except mining.

This isn't true. Mining is a big part of the game because everything is built from Ore and provides quanta, but there other things to do. The biggest area other than mining is  building and interacting with what others have built. This is a large space from interesting visual designs to things that you can play with (race tracks, mazes, puzzles). There are also still people that pvp.

 

You might not enjoy these things or think they need design work, but they exist. Reducing DU to only mining is simply wrong.

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4 minutes ago, fiddlybits said:

This isn't true. Mining is a big part of the game because everything is built from Ore and provides quanta, but there other things to do. The biggest area other than mining is  building and interacting with what others have built. This is a large space from interesting visual designs to things that you can play with (race tracks, mazes, puzzles). There are also still people that pvp.

 

You might not enjoy these things or think they need design work, but they exist. Reducing DU to only mining is simply wrong.

Of course, the resources you need to build grow on trees. Or do you buy them on the market from the pittance you get from the daily login?

 

I call the game Landmark in space. And your visions that you mention are not what people gave money for back then and made this project possible in the first place to be where it is now. And the various changes of course have managed to make the game dependent on a pillar on which everything rests. 

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1 minute ago, fiddlybits said:

This isn't true. Mining is a big part of the game because everything is built from Ore and provides quanta, but there other things to do. The biggest area other than mining is  building and interacting with what others have built. This is a large space from interesting visual designs to things that you can play with (race tracks, mazes, puzzles). There are also still people that pvp.

 

You might not enjoy these things or think they need design work, but they exist. Reducing DU to only mining is simply wrong.

you started the quote with the wrong sentence there. it started with this:

Quote

and quite honestly: what do you expect from the mission system?

in regards to the ****MISSION SYSTEM**** there is nothing else to do. 

If you think that building some random ships or interacting with others or race tracks or mazes or puzzles or pvp will be part of the mission system then please elaborate how that's going to work.

This *MIGHT* be ingame at some point but again: DU lacks so many different mechanics for this that they simply can't implement that now. And again, that doesn't mean it will never be in the game - but that is simply a hope and dream and what DU *could* do, not what it actually does

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3 minutes ago, SirJohn85 said:

Of course, the resources you need to build grow on trees. Or do you buy them on the market from the pittance you get from the daily login?

 

I call the game Landmark in space. And your visions that you mention are not what people gave money for back then and made this project possible in the first place to be where it is now. And the various changes of course have managed to make the game dependent on a pillar on which everything rests. 

I still mine sometimes and I imagine most people do. My point was that it's not the only thing to do. I'm not really sure how that's debatable. The game has other features.

 

None of my examples were based on a vision for the future. Each thing I listed exists and players do them in game now. I'm not saying the game is near done or should not have a lot more depth. I'm saying that if you think the game involves nothing but mining, you're missing out on current content.

 

I didn't back the game and I'm sorry that the game is not what was presented. I'm only basing my comments on what exists, not the past or future.

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