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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


NQ-Wanderer
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Full Wipe if I can keep my Skillpoints. I payed ALPA and BETA months just to collect skillpoints as you have said there would be no wipe. So you cannot just wipe that. I don't care about the other stuff I build or collected, I can get and create that again fast enough with the skillpoints I have.

I you do not save skillpoints, NO Wipe or a refund of my purchases as I purchased the months just to collect Skillpoints, I litterly did not play for 6 month, but I did Pay for them as I wanted the skillpoints.

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It kind of seems like everyone who wants a wipe has a list of stuff that other people have too much of, that should be wiped.  And a list of stuff that's important to them, that they should get to keep.

 

That's not a wipe.  That's just begging NQ to take other people's stuff, and let you keep yours.

 

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I don't care about money of my subs.

I don't care about talent points because they are 100% passive nonsense.

I don't care about quanta or constructs.

 

I do care about my time. Time I've invested to this game.

 

I'm 66 years old, my time is slowly coming short.

Life is most valuable asset I have. Ever day, every hour i spend in this game I have less and less of my time left. It is not infinite.

 

@NQ When considering this wipe issue, please respect your players time.

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The most important thing is that here is a decicion made about this ASAP! A lot of people I know won't continue to play till they know what will happen.

I don't mind a wipe, as long as we keep the Talent Points!
So please NQ, make up your mind and tell us what will happen. Personally I hoped for a decicion by sunday...

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A big IF of whether there will be a wipe.  I would certainly like to know of course.  I have been thinking about the following: 1) What would happen to CORPS?   2) What will happen to Talents?  3) I have a suggestion for Quanta:  Instead of taking it all away, why not tax it similar to American tax:   A) Poor players (including new) get an extra stimulus amount at the start of the wipe. B} A certain amount per player (or corp) is protected - whatever that is - 1 or 2 or 10 million perhaps.   C) Above that is a scale of taxes from 5% to where the highest rate for billionaires could be set perhaps at a value like 70% or something.  At least we would all start with something decent.   If they wanted to do it right they would protect high contributers to the game experience as NON PROFIT Corps.  ALSO Please note I see a lot of players here that ignore the rich contributions of things to do, services and artwork some groups of corps and players have offered all players including new ones.  Perhaps those are just PVP pirate wanna bees that only wish to take advantage and win some objective in the game.  They don't get the real possibility of purposes being here and are not likely to stay after they get what they want.  They need to realize this game is different if they want to stay.  The real issue is NQ needs to clearly state what they stand for and intend and stick with it.   Listening to all the players and trying to please them without that will simply kill the game as nobody on any side will trust it no matter what they want to see. I would hate to see that happen.  As for LEGION, all I can say it should be considered a common enemy to deal with.

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This has been an amusing read, but we are all wasting our breath and time until NQ makes a decision and informs us what it is. Silver lining I suppose there are a lot of video games to play so we have options until we have information.

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18 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Not entirely certain what point you're making here... On the flip side, are you saying that if NQ don't wipe, builders will never understand that their playstyle is not sustainable?
Heck, even rephrasing it I don't even know what I just asked.
 

 

This game is not sustainable because there are not enough players to sustain this game in the long term.

Builders are like: If you wipe I will quit.

Newsflash:
This game will not be here in a year without major changes. Because games have to make money and DU does not make enough money out of the 1k builders.

So yeah. They can listen to the 1k builders who are very vocal that they want to keep their constructs. But listening to them will, in my opinion, result in DU dying because that will not result in enough money coming in.

Honestly: Do you really think people care about a nice "spinning shopping cart"? You look at that and after 1 min max you think it is boring.

If you have new players coming in they are interested in the "Wild West" part where anything is possible.

That is the main reason why a wipe makes sense.

 

But builders are actually preventing this game from evolving. Like "airbrake obstruction". Builders do not want change in this game.
So there is no way NQ can improve the game if they listen to builders. Because they don't like change. And no change means the death of the game.

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36 pages in I can say with confidence the quality of the arguments both side deliver is night and day

 

fullwipe = pandering to thoughtlessness

 

still I can't help but feel that NQ, or at least new direction, wants to hedge their bets on churning through thousands of players that simply don't bring the patience to even remotely appreciate the product for what it is, after their honeymoon phase with the game has passed

 

I have never been as pessimistic about the development... I honestly felt that things were taking a turn for the better these past months. pfff but what are you going to do if all people do is complain... sigh

 

Condoleances (literally) to the working staff.

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14 hours ago, Zarcata said:

Funny.
If you can keep your talent points, it's not a full wipe.
So you are against a fullwipe, but claim they would accept the fullwipe.

Those are the options Nova is giving us. So A Full Wipe with an Exception of Skillpoints was my explanation and answer. 

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15 hours ago, Possemaster said:

Full Wipe if I can keep my Skillpoints. I payed ALPA and BETA months just to collect skillpoints as you have said there would be no wipe. 

"You can only completely empty my tea cup if you leave the milk in it". ;)

 


But seriously. I guess I will have to response each time someone makes the incorrect statement NQ said they would not wipe again as they never did.

 

There is ONE mention of "no wipe" and that is in a press release prior to beta. EVERY other comment or statement NQ has made as left a wipe of some kind firmly on the table. And so, let's take a step back and look at this.

NQ has a number of structural problems, one being communication. Not just a lack of it, but when they do they tend to be vague, confusing, and contradicting in many instances. It's anyone's guess why this is still the case, but it is.

The only logical explanation for the press release would be for NQ to ignore the talk in the community about a partial wipe and really only discuss another full/global wipe like they did prior to beta in that context without ever making that distinction clear. And seeing how NQ realistically soft-launched the game at that point by starting to take people's money through subscriptions is why another full wipe would not be an option. NQ can't erase the built-up benefits from paying a sub and the big one there is the talent points.

Experience in building, understanding of game mechanics, knowing how to fly, how to mine, whet the best way to prospect is and similar actions are all part of the experience gained while playing beta. These are a permanent advantage and benefit over new players. Talent point accrued in a passive training system like DU has are directly linked to the subscription being paid. And NQ simply can't take that away anymore. So, a full wipe is effectively no longer an option.

The discussion around another (partial) wipe has been raging on and off ever since beta started, actually before that as the day 1 exploit which insta-boosted the abilities for some to where they should only get to weeks from that point should have triggered another full wipe, and flared up several times.

 

There have been a number of major exploits and issues damaging the game over the beta period and NQ has all but left this untouched. Assuming for a moment that NQ did not just ignore it and purposely allowed players to enrich themselves beyond reason through exploits and mistakes, the only logical conclusion would be that NQ has ALWAYS planned to do a partial wipe closer to actual release and so choose to not rock the boat.

 

And I've mentioned this a few times, my expectation is that NQ will do a partial wipe where everything goes, players get blueprints for constructs they created (not the ones you bought or were gifted and are DRM locked to the creator) as well as their accrued talent point returned to the pool.

That wipe makes sense and it will happen an few weeks prior to the official "release" of the game at which time beta keys will also deactivate. Backers will then have an early start and NQ will probably offer a subscription package for several months to allow others to also have that start. This is just a logical and sensible business move.

 

The problem with al this is that NQ never clarified what I believe to be their intent to say a FULL/GLOBAL wipe would not happen again. Whether this is/was because they just do not see this oversight is a major cause for a lot of the debate or that they deliberately do not do it because of another problem they have, which is that they do not trust their community to be able to handle the truth and the actual intent they have for these kinds of things.

The biggest initiator of confusion, debate, discussion and arguments around DU is actually NQ in their, at times, hopelessly naive and borderline ignorant way of communicating with clear signs of a massive disconnect between what they think the community wants/needs and what is actually going on.

 

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We can dig out the quote and you can play yanny and laurel again, but it's not rocket science it said that they'd like to avoid and not reserve the option to wipe. FFS


Avoid it and insofar it's unavoidable, yes, technically the statement opens the door to a wipe.... To represent that as if the statement meant "wipe, schmipe we might totally wipe one day" is disengenous

Just... there is nuance, and then there is concerntrolling, pedantism, and sophistry...



NQ makes open-ended statements so they can less easily held to their word, be painted as liar or hypocrites, yes they are clusmy AF at it and would most likely benefit from making their mistakes more relatable and transparent, to bring things into the realm of parasocial relationships, because RN it's a little too apparant how "top-down" things are meant.

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Well, I was pro-Wipe even before today, but now I am somehow pissed.

 

I tried to keep up with the Patches and do the things needed to keep my stuff. After the Patch went live with the upkeep costs I turned my Tiles into HQ-tiles and moved my stuff there.

 

Now my main Tile is gone, together with my factory and all my Schematics and Blueprints. Even if the assignment of these Tiles as HQ, those should have been auto-assigned as HQ as far as I understood it. But all tiles except one are gone. So I basically lost all my stuff and even if a Wipe with people keeping their BPs occours I would not benefit from that, cause the boxes they were in are gone.

 

Dont get me wrong here, I dont whine about loosing all the other Tiles and cores I did not take care of, thats ok. But those I spefically marked as headuarters ARE gone. The stuff was worth Billion(s).

 

I dont think it would even be possible to get my stuff back, cause its looted all over. I was logged in to check after the period expired and everything was fine. So whatever patch made this, I obviously missed that change. And people from my org are telling me this shouldnt have happened if set to HQ-Tiles.

 

My Skil-Queue was halted. Last time this happened I got a Mail from NQ telling me "hey, you have to do something". This time I did not.

 

However, why I vote for a wipe is not only what happened here. It is what happened during the whole time I played this game, I guess I started 2 to 4 Weeks after "Release" into Beta. I saw exploits for Item-Duplication, Money-Duplication and after introducing Schematics, which killed the game in my opinion, we even had another exploit with false prices due to NQ they decided not to "fix" by getting the money back from players. I know NQ went through hard times, but killing your game by killing the economy of such a game, whos idea is to be player-driven, will prevent it from being successfull in the long run. At least if you aim for a reasonable amount of players that pays the bills.

 

And even those who did not exploit on their own are punished by all that happened after those exploits. Market-Prices went crazy, Schematics were intrroduced, and due to the fact they are outdated now I would not had much of my billion-credit-investment, cause other stuff is needed now.

 

So yes, to have me and others returning to DU for a second try, you would need to wipe the game completely, and I really mean completely wipe everything. I indeed vote for giving the people a reimbursement in skillpints, depending on the months of active subscription and yes, BPs of course (even if I would obviously not benefit from that). To be able to choose some stuff or money, also depending on the time of active subscription, would also be nice. So people may be able to choose different ship-designs (hauler, fighter etc.) and either money or harvesters/factory-parts to start, to respect their amount of time and money they invested for an advantage after start. Please get Rid of the schematics as they are now, hide them behind skills, as it should be. And maybe make em craftable with XX runs, like Star Wars Galaxies did, that was just perfect in that game. The crafter gives the schmeatics his skills, and then let them be traded at the market, with up to 99 runs etc. That way people can run factories without owning the skills for it, and you move the service to the market. Should have been that way from the start.

 

SWG did another thing right, changing of ressources. Every week the spots moved. Think about that. However, I think it would destroy the meaning of good spots for PvP. But it would as well enable a need for constant scanning and moving of ressource-spots, which may or may not be more dynamic.

 

There was a time where I was like many people playing DU - No Wipe!

But what many people stating in the internet is not true. There was always said that in case of problems that cant be fixed there may be a wipe, depending on the size of the problem.

It was also promised that we will see other systems as well, and that the fight for the gates to those systems etc. will be the real endgame then, especially for PvP.

 

I still miss that new system. My originally hope was indeed to have the current system as some sort of legacy-system, and the real stuff going on in the new system, but that time we had no upkeep and my plans were totally different. I really thought I can keep my Headquarters the way it was built forwever, and build a museum. I kept ALL ships to built a museum. I kept all BPs to build some ships just for showcasing them. This is all gone. Not to mention the voxel-corruption on my base that NQ told me they cant repair, I have to rebuild my base on my own to fix it.

 

Some people never had problems, I seem to have them all. Missing ships after patches, exploding ships while aproaching my ships. I was mining while a bunch of NQ-guys was watching me finding the buged spots and hunting down the bug that caused them. Corrupted Voxels all over my base that cant be fixed by NQ. Invisible stuff in the path of my ship that killed me several times because stuff spawning too late. Ships below the surface right beside a market, where no player altered the terrain, due to some strange loading-bugs as well... I could move on for hours with the bugs I collected in uncountable hours of gameplay.

 

A wipe has the potential to heal the game. No wipe only has the potential to kill it.

 

The Gap between the players will be way too big, and there are already enough players who left cause they are pissed. I knew some people who were acting like DU is their religion, and even they left at the moment, never thought they ever will.

 

This game needs a fresh start. Then I will even consider spending money on it. At the moment, I do not.

 

However, even a wipe is only of use if exploits are taken care off after release and people are punished instead of rewarded and things are repaired after they occoured, because they WILL occour.

 

Sorry for the Wall of text, but that are my 3 cents (2 cents would have been a shorter post).

Edited by Filokwarq
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On 4/14/2022 at 7:20 PM, Cergorach said:

If NQ is destroying all the work except core blueprints, wouldn't the people that spent their time making those core blueprint have a huge advantage over the rest? 

 

IMO, "advantage" is not an argument in the decision to wipe. It is really bad that NQ even remotely suggest this in their g horrible post on the matter as doing so really pushes the narrative in the wrong way.

That argument falls squarely in the "it is because otherwise new players can't catch up".  Having the option to jumpstart the game through the eearl;y availability of good quality constructs to buy will be very important for the game post-wipe. And these bleuprints, like the acrued talent points, effectively represent the time and monet players have spent in game leading up to "release".

Having these constructs in game early on will also potentrially show "what is possible" and incentivize ne wplayers to follow a similar path. And allowing you to keep the blueprints for ships you bought woud actually be the unfair advantage here as that would deny the creators to start their business back up.
 

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

Having these constructs in game early on will also potentrially show "what is possible" and incentivize ne wplayers to follow a similar path. And allowing you to keep the blueprints for ships you bought woud actually be the unfair advantage here as that would deny the creators to start their business back up.

 

I agree completely that wiping Quanta, but not wiping sold blueprints would be incredibly unfair to anyone who has sold a Blueprints.

 

But at the same time, there's a decent chance that a lot of the people who have bought Blueprints may not be able to purchase that same Blueprint again.  Since there's no guarantee that the person who made the original will still be playing.

 

That means NQ is just deleting all of those constructs.  Poof.  Never to be seen again.

 

And the alternative, Magic Blueprints, would be even worse, leaving a HUGE loophole for anyone to bring over wealth into the new game, and punishing anyone who doesn't take the time to transfer all of their wealth into constructs before the wipe.

 

Which of those option sounds good to you?  Because they all sound pretty bad to me.

 

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In terms of removing schematics, a wipe is the worst thing you can do. If you just pull the rug from under us and completely remove schematics in one fell swoop, it would be absolute carnage.But even though some people would be salty that they wasted all of that money, by the next time they need to make a new machine, they would be thankful. If you decide to wipe, however, you would lose practically your entire current player base permanently. I‘ve supported this game since the alpha, and played since the beta, and I want this game to succeed, cause it is the exact game I’ve always wanted made by the most helpful and chill dev team I’ve ever had the pleasure of asking to unstuck my ship. But while I myself might come back to the game post wipe to try and rebuild eventually, I’m afraid- when your game is based around the players- there might not be a game to come back to.

You are also not going to gain players by wiping, as chances are new people won’t be more inclined (maybe even less inclined due to a lack of stability) to buy the game if there has been a recent wipe. The only time having more advanced players would disincentivise new players would be after they’ve already started playing, due to it feeling unfair. In our community, this is by far not the case, as any new player won’t be shunned, but actively helped and elevated to the Same level. I’d take Carothis as an example, as he asked for help with a really obvious thing in the chat. This then led the chat to realise that they were new, so they immediately had multiple people (myself included) personally guiding carothis. Carothis now has a complete mining rig and is the superlegate of an org. That took them 1 day under the communities help. Therefore a wipe would deter new players, as old ones would be too busy rebuilding from scratch to help them.
tl:dr

Plz no wipe, I don’t want dead gaem.

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50 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

But at the same time, there's a decent chance that a lot of the people who have bought Blueprints may not be able to purchase that same Blueprint again.  Since there's no guarantee that the person who made the original will still be playing.

 

That means NQ is just deleting all of those constructs.  Poof.  Never to be seen again.

 

That is fair sure. But I feel that is preferable as it also opens up room for new designs/creators and may entice some who left to return and restart their business. There's pros and cons in anything obviously.

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7 hours ago, Filokwarq said:

Well, I was pro-Wipe even before today, but now I am somehow pissed.

 

The whole auto HQ assignement was one of those unclear actions by NQ. I think that was only for inactive accounts actually.
What is clear is that it could only be tiles in your name and not an org. 

 

That said though, you could have checked, you should have set thsi tile to HQ the moment you cnme back in after that update and you would have received several notifdications AND ample time to recover your constructs once the tile was claimed. So blaming NQ for all of this is really not justified.

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So the solution here is a simple one. "

:

  • Extremely complex to put in place properly without the known loopholes interfering (such as piling up Resources and Elements on existing Constructs before a wipe and removing them after to sell them)

Before wipe You tag every single construct existing at moment of wipe with a unique I'd or watermark and then blacklist them on néw servers markets and can't be resold but can still be used only on that construct. 

 

Secondly I believe the the tone of this writing suggests to me NQ are writing this in a tone of convincing us , wich could suggest NQ already made up their minds and a decision has been reached and there fishing for response from community. 

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15 minutes ago, CDEEKS said:

Before wipe You tag every single construct existing at moment of wipe with a unique I'd or watermark and then blacklist them on néw servers markets and can't be resold but can still be used only on that construct. 

 

Making it slightly more complicated to carry over wealth will only increase the advantage to those who do it effectively.

 

And A well equipped PVP org will still have a fleet of ships after the wipe. 

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Make a fully wiped second (2.0) server, keep the original one, use the original server as a "test" and "creativity" server.

Avoid countless bug fixes after releasing an update. Once updates are stable on server 1.0, implement them on the 2.0 server.

 

All new player subscriptions automatically go to the 2.0 server obviously. Old players can have a temporary free pass to build up a new life on the 2.0 server.

 

My earlier post still said full wipe of this server and keep talent points as an alternative, but after reading a lot of feedback, I think the only good solution is a new server.

This way you will have both things: a full wipe, and no wipe at all. I believe the majority would be happy with this.

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7 minutes ago, Yoarii said:

Please NQ, end the suffering and announce your decision. There's nothing but bad PR resulting from this limbo.

They won't because no matter the decision there going to loose.some players and there not going to do that until last minute to keep the players guessing 🤔 (and paying sub) 

 

For me it's the skill points if I go to 0 from 65mil I don't think ad have it in me to start from scratch. 

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21 hours ago, blazemonger said:

That said though, you could have checked, you should have set thsi tile to HQ the moment you cnme back in after that update and you would have received several notifdications AND ample time to recover your constructs once the tile was claimed. So blaming NQ for all of this is really not justified.

This is not a support-discussion, so pls dont try to teach what I should have done. Because what I actually did was to actively transfer tiles to the Chars and set them to HQ after the Patch, and also moved stuff TO those Tiles.

 

I think I said I accepted to loose some stuff, that is why. Stuff I did not secure on owned Tiles set to HQ, I accepted to loose.

 

And me voting for a wipe is not this situation. Loosing stuff is part of the game. But bugs, unkept promises (we will inform people by mail in advance, I did not get a mail this time, I got one last time) etc. ist why I think it would be the best for the game in the long run to wipe and remove the mechanics that were only introduced to fix exploits already hapened for the release and to remove the impact to the economy etc. they still have, partially because of those mechanics, partially because of the money in the game etc.

Edited by Filokwarq
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