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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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I would like to add a point of view to the discussion:
Imagine we are in 3 years from now. The server has been life all the time. There have been hardcore gamers and casual players for the whole time. There will be a big difference between the players depending on the how they have been playing the game.


Imagine you join as a new player in 3 years.

 

What will be the difference beteen the new players now and new players in 3 years?

 

What will a vipe improve in the long run? I can't imagine that you wipe the server every few years.
I think that you have to find a way to do ballancing on the run.

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A full wipe would be OK if we had a way to precisely deploy a static BP so I can rebuild my bases. Not holding my breath for that. I don't think NQ has the competence to do that.

 

Otherwise, I don't see any point in continuing to play. Admittedly, I just barely see any point in continuing to play with the incoming fantasy physics, but whatever.

 

Any other option that preserves BPs and static constructs is fine.

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You could also introduce a starter system with accelerated Talenets point for NEW players to catch up some but once they reach a point "20mil Talent Point" they are kicked out of the sysetm to hte main helios system. helios should not be able to travel to that system to preserve the new player experience. many games have used this functionality to much success. give new players a safe place to start for upto a point and then force them into the main server.

 

i am still trying to figure out where "Schematics" became unpopular.

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Well... It's good that you guys are talking about the issue.

 

I am ok with a wipe or not. Full wipe of blueprints, schematics, quanta. Whatever. What I am stuck on is talent points. I subbed a number a handful of accounts knowing that there might be a wipe but believing that what I was paying for was the talent points. I was very confident. "They might wipe. But you'll get to keep your talent points."

 

It seems that I was wrong.

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1 hour ago, Kurock said:

I have never read a bigger pile of one-sided bullsh*t basically advocating for full wipe in order to easily do away with schematics.  Just announce the decision and get it over with.

At beginning of beta it was announced "no more wipes except as required for updates" (like the mining update that was done).  So if NQ do decide to wipe, it would be yet another promise broken.  This also completely ignores that people have been paying monthly to play...

As for "removing unfair advantage" and "level playing field". These are fallacies to help people sleep better at night.  The players with the know how will return to the positions of abundance they have now in short order.   There will always be "haves" and "have nots".   All a wipe does is a slap in the face of the people that put time into the game after being told a wipe would not happen.
 

Make a system that creates schematics rather than remove them.  The problem with schematics, like the markets, is that they do not give player agency.  A player cannot make a schematic at all, they have to be bought.  Make science research a thing.

Cons for wipe have already been mentioned:   As I said, the "NQ thoughts" are heavily aligned to a wipe disregarding promises and small details like leaving an empty world, avid supporters of the game just leave, and paying customers just get their stuff removed.  

What a wipe also does is remove the history of DU such as it is... like Thoramine.  Deleting a piece of DU history like that is unforgivable.

Completely agree with this!

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clarification on the proposal of removing scematics needs more info, this will affect how the game play works currently. previously before schematics everyone had a factory, noone even used the markets. every man/woman and his dog had a mega factory.

 

im all for a full wipe if its best for the game to start afresh.

 

regarding the cons on constructs. (basically alpha constucts with no owner probably and constucts that are outside the build box)

when you wiped alpha to beta we where still able to just respawn all these constructs with our blueprints. will these construct owners be told we had delete etc blueprint as it was a problem or will we still have the blue print to start the cycle again?

 

regarding the compensation i agree something should be given to vetran backers. ill leave this to you to explain more before judging, but ppl who have a paid subscription with you for say 12months plus should also be have some consideration too. they have comitted just as much as a veteran.

 

look forward to more info. the sooner the better on this i would suggest. noone wants to wait around in limbo and for you to get the same level of bug reporting/testing on the next update we need a time frame.

 

thanks

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3 minutes ago, SeekerOfHonjo said:

i am still trying to figure out where "Schematics" became unpopular.

That's my point out of the blue Schematics are all of a sudden an issue that requires a wipe to replace instead of just removing them from be required. makes no sense. 

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I also don't think schematics were the demon everyone thought they would be. but i like the idea of a "research" mechanic to get them rather then a ridiculous quanta sink.

 

keep in mind at least that one of the original reasons for schematics were to make it a bad idea to have factories filled with industry left running and doing nothing.

 

Make it possible to do things, make it impractical to bloat server load.

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Just now, MelTuc said:

That's my point out of the blue Schematics are all of a sudden an issue that requires a wipe to replace instead of just removing them from be required. makes no sense. 

Think it may have to do with how expensive Exotic schematics will have to be with the current system. 1.4 Bil Quanta just for a single schematic, not to mention all the part schematics leading to the element... 

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They don't want to remove the way schematics work from the game. They want to remove specific schematics from the game. Many months ago there was an unintended NPC firesale where anyone online for those 30 mins could buy schematics at 1% of the usual price. Billionaires were made that day. 

 

The server was not reset after it was fixed. NQ did not follow up on chasing down those schematics and removing them. 

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10 minutes ago, Messaline said:

I'm not against a wipe as long as we keep our quantas, blueprints and talent points.

add schematics to that, or compensation in quantas: I grinded them together over 2 years. 
Would be unfair if builders keep their blueprints, and industrialists loose everything.

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I'm shocked that wiping talent points is even a discussion. Players payed you a subscription for god's sake. Honestly with all the mess that beta has been this is the least that has to be done for people who kept supporting the game. 
If talent points that have been accumulated through subscription are wiped or some other shady stuff implemented like tripling the amount of skillpoints required for the same skill I will
1) Quit this game 
2) Make my mission to create as much bad pr among my friends as I can, so they and their friends know how "well" you guys treat their customers.

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I'll keep my opinions about a wipe brief:

I don't like the idea of a full wipe. I've put thousands of hours into building my ship-selling operation. But I understand how a wipe could help. I'm resigned to the inevitability of it. I can deal with losing my money and my ship factory.

HOWEVER, don't take our talent points! We paid for those. They aren't resources. Taking them is basically deleting our character/account. Whatever advantage they provide, we're owed it. If talent points go, I'll go.

And I think removing schematics would be a bad idea. Every player could manufacture everything they need again, and the market would be pointless.

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1 hour ago, Kurock said:

I have never read a bigger pile of one-sided bullsh*t basically advocating for full wipe in order to easily do away with schematics.  Just announce the decision and get it over with.

At beginning of beta it was announced "no more wipes except as required for updates" (like the mining update that was done).  So if NQ do decide to wipe, it would be yet another promise broken.  This also completely ignores that people have been paying monthly to play...

As for "removing unfair advantage" and "level playing field". These are fallacies to help people sleep better at night.  The players with the know how will return to the positions of abundance they have now in short order.   There will always be "haves" and "have nots".   All a wipe does is a slap in the face of the people that put time into the game after being told a wipe would not happen.
 

Make a system that creates schematics rather than remove them.  The problem with schematics, like the markets, is that they do not give player agency.  A player cannot make a schematic at all, they have to be bought.  Make science research a thing.

Cons for wipe have already been mentioned:   As I said, the "NQ thoughts" are heavily aligned to a wipe disregarding promises and small details like leaving an empty world, avid supporters of the game just leave, and paying customers just get their stuff removed.  

What a wipe also does is remove the history of DU such as it is... like Thoramine.  Deleting a piece of DU history like that is unforgivable.

 

This 100%. Removing schematics means everyone gets to exotics in record time. There wont be as much of a quanta sink and we get even more hyper deflation. Markets wont be used as everyone will make their own stuff with no real cost. Auto ore, no schematics means removing any depth there was to industry. If they thought current factories were an issue for the server, o boy, I cant wait to see 2-3x the current factories absolutely destroying the server.

 

The tone and wording they use is "well, we REALLY want a wipe but we don't know how to tell people so they don't get mad".

Unless you plan to absolutely destroy those who exploit/dupe/etc then this also has no meaning. The economy wasn't broken because of the exploits themselves, it was broken/hurt because you did nothing about it. Don't come to us and point the finger when all you had to do was ban those involved and remove the resources/quanta from the system. Most everyone would of accepted a rollback when these kinds of things hit us, but just patching it and moving on make me think a wipe was the plan all along and you were just leading us on to get more subs out of us. Any kind of talent point reset would be literally be removing the entire value of being an early backer/vet. People put literal months of their life into working on cities, super structures, trying to make actual content.

 

If you want to go this way, fine, but give those who bought long term subs, 6+ months, the option to pause their subscription until you have figured out what you want to do. We don't want to pay to work on things, to sit around and build TP up if you are just going to delete all of that progress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yay, full wipe will be ok. But i dont want it and want it in the same time >_<
And we need schematics, but in another form (like 1 for core, all factories can read it from core schematics storage)

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It's scary how much players here would be happy with a partial wipe, if only these players are always allowed to keep their own advantage in the process....

There are currently players who support wipe, but only if....

- I get to keep my quanta
- I can keep my talent points
- I can keep my BP
- I get a magic BP
- I get talent points much faster than new players
- me, me, me, me, me.....!!!

None of this is fair!

But fairness is what NQ and a wipe are "supposed" to be about. So, either no wipe or a complete one, without an advantage. (Maybe you could offer the beta subscription players a refund as compensation or, they also get t-shirts, etc, as it was promised to the Kickstarters.

 

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@NQ-Wanderer dear, would you clarify,

what does it mean to 'remove schematics?

 

- remove them as part-of-the-game to pre-0.23 version?

- remove as existing content as part of wipe process?

 

There are a lot of comments, that without schematics nobody will come to market, and everyone will do their own elements on huge factories..

 

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11 minutes ago, Emma Roid said:

Would be unfair if builders keep their blueprints, and industrialists loose everything.

That is a very good point a builders most important item is their blueprint to a ship or building or whatever. While industry it factories, schematics and resource. As you state builders would not loose at the same level industrialists, miners and trades would. Until the builders realize that the 100million dollar ships is now impossible for anyone to afford, deploy or buy.

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