Jump to content

DEVBLOG: A MARKET IN SPACE - discussion thread


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Shockr said:

*cough* Utopia Station *cough*

edit: For reference, Utopia Station is about 1SU from the centre of the safezone. We've been there for over a year. It would have been great if this was a player element that could be attached to existing, long-standing, trade outposts.

Yes it would be great for your group, but also extremely unfair to 99.999 of the rest of the players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest issue I have is game stability...too many times the game is being rolled out with new features none of which are stable and are dependent on the players core memory in their own pc to uphold. Not everyone has a super great pc and even mine is not the lowest tech on the block but when I see that a game I'm playing is running at 9 g all the time and slugging out its a joke. I play multiple other games and never.. and I do mean never have the hard lag effect I get from this game on a daily basis. That needs to be fixed first and foremost.  As for this space market all you did was invite ever annoying person in the game to park dynamic cores all over it like a yard sale with their stupid signs. you just made space junk. I say rid the main markets of bots aside from the schematics allow the ore bots to die. And fix the main issues. And if you think FTUE is gonna bring the numbers up even if you roll out the game now you're wrong. With the stability of the games as it stands new players will play and hit that hard lag wall and grow tired of it when they realize its the memory cores being hammered all the time by the game.

Edited by AtrusKage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, space_man said:

Yes it would be great for your group, but also extremely unfair to 99.999 of the rest of the players.

 

The new "Space Market" in place of "Player Market Mechanics" is what is "Unfair". 

 

Utopia (Center of SZ) 

Rendezvous Station (Above Thades)

Huge Station (Between Alioth & Sanctuary)

Infinity Corps (Above Alioth)

 

There are also 2 new large stations being built I do not have a name for, one is over 125 cores right now, I wonder what they have to say?

 

All of these stations above, and there are more, are run by and have participating Orgs and Players waiting for the "Player Market Mechanics" that are now getting slapped in the face with this new NQ operated station being deployed.

What a waste.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gottchar said:

"the Market station provides a new dynamic in the transport of cargo, in that merchandise can be bought and sold without the need to make planetfall."

so like any of the already existing moon markets, without the moons. 

 

Market 1 Alioth moon 1 is:

-closer to most players

-also in space

-more landing space

-easier landing, because a tiny bit of gravity is nice to have

-you can already warp to a moon, no public warp beacon needed

 

I have no idea how the new space market adds anything in any way for anybody except the Utopia guys, that was not already provided by any of the moon markets. Unless the fact that there is a moon below the moon markets is an issue, which I doubt, the new market is not going to see a lot of action, it is yet another waste of time.

 

Next time players ask for something that would actually be nice and make the game more fun and the devs say "we would love to, but it isn’t priority, maybe later we find the time" just remember there was time enough for this thing.

The only difference is that this space market does not have bots. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call filler content.. Serves no purposes really and is mostly irrelevant to the game as a whole but is an "easy win"as far as "look, we are adding more stuff". NQ needs to bring the player markets they have promised, allow players to run their own marketplace and sell multiple goods through a single element.

 

So far, Athena is pretty much a number of "new things" no one really needs and only add fluff. 

 

When the new skybox is what appears to be the best part of the patch.. it kind of says it all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, NQ-Wanderer said:

Greetings, Noveans.

 

Let us know your thoughts about our latest DEVBLOG: A MARKET IN SPACE!

 

I have a question. Just how close to my AMT space core will that be? I built my modest space station in the center point of the safe zone, at the same distance from Alioth, Thades and Madis. But it seems that such is the future location for the Aegis market. And also no core can be deployed within 50 km. So... will that affect my space station? Is it going to be moved?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Illanyss said:

I have a question. Just how close to my AMT space core will that be? I built my modest space station in the center point of the safe zone, at the same distance from Alioth, Thades and Madis. But it seems that such is the future location for the Aegis market. And also no core can be deployed within 50 km. So... will that affect my space station? Is it going to be moved?

Unless you built your station in the last week, you are not in the center

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many markets are already in game? 200ish?

How many are part of the fully functioning economy?... One. Just one-D6.

 

Why does anyone think this space market will be anything other than another ghost town market?

 

Second, no bots? 90% of the time when I go to a market other than D6, it's to sell T1 ore to bots. So why am I going to go the ghost town space market?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see a number of posts saying to put the space market in the PVP zone. That will just insure that it never functions as a market since most of us won't be able to get there with the certainty necessary for successful business. Whoever the top PVP org is at any given time doesn't really need their own market for internal trade - they just do their internal trade internally. And no one else will use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Daphne Jones said:

I see a number of posts saying to put the space market in the PVP zone. That will just insure that it never functions as a market since most of us won't be able to get there with the certainty necessary for successful business. Whoever the top PVP org is at any given time doesn't really need their own market for internal trade - they just do their internal trade internally. And no one else will use it.

It would have to have a big tax advantage. Maybe make it have 0 tax, and significantly increase taxes at all safe space markets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hold on ...

This market will be very useful . Say you are in a pvp ship space only and you wanna grab fast some fuel and cells . You warp there buy your stuff and leave. So easy .

It will provide the space only ships with a lot of items including : fuel,cells,ammo,scraps,weapons,elements damaged or new, voxels etc. .

I think it will become the main market hub of the game ( Long term because players will need some time to get use of it) because of :

1 - that "planetfall" indeed

2 - tile taxes which makes players wanna space core build now

3 - distance and position - which unites Alioth madis thades players into a single hub (well Alioth is the way now but we ll see)

4 - Sales tax (pending)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Habitant said:

Hold on ...

This market will be very useful . Say you are in a pvp ship space only and you wanna grab fast some fuel and cells . You warp there buy your stuff and leave. So easy .

It will provide the space only ships with a lot of items including : fuel,cells,ammo,scraps,weapons,elements damaged or new, voxels etc. .

I think it will become the main market hub of the game ( Long term because players will need some time to get use of it) because of :

1 - that "planetfall" indeed

2 - tile taxes which makes players wanna space core build now

3 - distance and position - which unites Alioth madis thades players into a single hub (well Alioth is the way now but we ll see)

4 - Sales tax (pending)

 

 

 

ALL of which should and could be covered by  already existing space stations if Player Market Mechanics were implemented as promised

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long story short, I would have only one reason to visit this new space outpost: to see it once out of curiosity, and then never again.

  • Why should I bother going to a market that's further away from most of the actual trading going on? Fuel costs money. Travel time slow-boating is already obscene.
  • Why should I bother going to a market whose only draw is that it's in space with 0G? Others have pointed out that moons already fill this role, but...no surprise, Alioth Market 6 is still the trade hub of choice for most people. Once something is established, it's hard to de-establish it for something else without a REALLY good reason.
  • Why should I bother going to a market that is not near the base that took my org insane amounts of time to build? Do a full wipe, then we'll talk...but by the time I can even get there after a wipe, Alioth Market 6 will probably be re-established as the trade hub simply because, you know, it's easier to reach than space, and we come full circle to the "hard to de-establish" issue.

As to other suggestions about putting markets in PVP space...

  • Pirates own PVP space. Few orgs/players contest them. Until that changes, PVP space markets are worthless to anyone but pirates and those who can warp into their safe zones...which...why bother when you can just as easily warp to a moon and do business there? More warp locations in dangerous places doesn't entice me to use those locations.
  • Slowboating is already a full day of time invested into doing nothing if you're going a moderate distance round trip. With the changes to max speed, where's the motivation to slowboat at all? It seems like they're just listening to the complaints from pirates (and noticing that, surprise surprise, their system of NPC missions makes it easy to make a fortune quickly using a bunch of alts on a large hauler. Almost like it was predictable. Like they could have devoted time to developing something else that wouldn't be so obviously exploited and force them to ruin space travel even more, rather than change the mission system) and completely ignoring the fact that space travel is a huge time sink already. If it takes an hour to go between Madis and Alioth at max speed (including accelerating up/down) with low/high mass, and they change the max speed to the degree that it appears they will, then going from Madis to Alioth will take multiple hours for even medium haulers. It's like they're trying to make space hauling less appealing than it already is. Now add back in the fact that it's PVP space, or rather, pirate territory...and again, what's the motivation? Find other ways to make PVP relevant to non-pirates, and to NQ, stop coddling pirates at the expense of everyone else. Balance your gameplay so that pirate trolls don't rule/ruin the PVP world as in so many other games.

All told, I'm not really impressed with how NQ is doing things. Some stuff, sure, but they're going farther and farther away from the "player created content" that was PROMISED.

  • Alien cores for space defense/mining? Sure, why not. A reason to go to PVP space, except that you still have to deal with the heavy pirate troll advantage and the serious lack of non-pirate players in non-pirate orgs dedicated to PVP.
  • Mission system? Cool. It adds content for players who want to run missions (to a very small degree. It's still not highly used).
  • Escort missions? Are you joking, or what? Slowboating is tedious and can go for 6 hours or longer. You SERIOUSLY think that anyone would do escort missions like that and not expect a high reward that would not only potentially overshoot any potential profits from the haul, but also be better spent buying a lot of warp cells and just warping between planets? You would need to hire at least 2 escorts to be reasonably secure against pirates. Find two non-pirate (because pirates get hard thinking about trolling) players or teams of players willing to waste 4-8 hours constantly watching their radar, and you'll be lucky...and that's before the mass/speed update, which will make those travel times ludicrously longer.
  • More NPC markets instead of player-owned markets? Wasted time that could have been spent improving the actual game or adding features that people actually ask for.
  • Space wrecks? Okay, sure, except for the fact that they apparently took pre-DRM blueprints to be used in their wrecks, opening up code to public distribution that should be locked.
  • Making space wrecks really rare to the point of "you have to accidentally stumble on them once in a blue moon, under the proper star sign, and only if a 2-hump camel farts while facing north," and putting the ones of actual value in pirate territory? Wasted time that could have been spent improving the actual game or adding features that people actually ask for.
  • New stasis weapons? Sounds good.
  • Lowering the max speed based on ship mass? Wasted time that could have been spent improving the actual game or adding features that people actually ask for, and seriously makes me glad that my org can afford to make/buy enough cells to warp heavy loads, because slowboating just went from bad to worse. At least until they decide that pirates don't get enough action and make warping more expensive and interruptible during transit. I can totally see that happening with the way things are going.
  • Different weapon types and sizes? Great. Versatility.
  • Forcing people wanting to specialize in large weapon types to first train all of the sizes below, or people wanting to specialize in other talents being required to train everything else that precedes that talent (like having to get talents in T1-4 ore refining just to focus on T5), and other talents that don't feed into the one they want to specialize in? So much for specialization, when you have to get everything to specialize in something else, making you waste so much time on things that don't make sense.

This may seem like a long complaint-filled rant, but honestly, I don't think NQ actually listens to most of the issues that people bring up based on their development priorities, and the lack of real interaction between devs/admin and players. So, here's some feedback, NQ. I'm FAR from the first one to put it out there. Let's see what you decide to DU with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no market but market 6. 

 

Centralize planet markets into a single hub already.... All Alioth markets = Alioth Market. All Madis markets = Madis market, etc.

 

No point to all these different markets when players will just group to one.....that is not a space market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m looking forward to seeing how the space market effects gameplay. 
 

NQ please consider allowing us to link parcel containers to a container hub and allow us to ship more than the max 512,000 L per mission. I believe this will help boost the number of player missions and will help us move goods to the space market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does this mean:


image.thumb.png.297eacc392e01de17fd7cd34cff2dda7.png

 

"entirely built and driven by players..."?

 

NQ dictates how we are supposed to play their game to a point that they take the fun out of it.

 

What is fun?

 

Creativity!

So it be building ships or static constructs, finding the meta and tactics for victorious PVP, LUA programming to overcome "technical problems".

What makes this fun?

There is a challenge and when we succeed it triggers positive feelings so we learn and evolve.

 

Aphelia markets is no fun.

Most players use the market to turn stuff they have into quanta and back to stuff they want. No fun in that.

But, a few players can find joy in doing good businesses buying and selling. But with no in game tools to analyze supply and demand that's not really a thing. And if you produce the stuff yourself it's merely just a place to throw your stuff to get quanta back to invest in your business.

 

Player made markets can be fun.

  • You can put an effort in building a construct that attracts players to come and visit. Either it's functional and/or esthetic.
  • You can build relations with your customers to find out what their demand is.
  • You can build relations with suppliers to meet the demand.
  • You can interact with other players and make friends and socialize.

I am part of an organization running one of these player made markets.

We can offer our customers to:

  • see all items before they buy because all items are at display in the store. Especially welcomed by new players who have not yet seen all things in the game.
  • buy in VR and store it in their personal container to pick up later, or if they share it within an org, someone else from that org can get it.
  • have their own parcel container to be able to create a hauling mission (player made!!) for someone else to get their stuff for them.

 

The only way we can sell stuff is by using dispensers, one fore each item and batch size. So we have almost 400 dispensers in our store, plus a second store with almost the same amount of dispensers to sell the same items in a different batch size. We've built a system to automate updates to the screens with new prices, a lot of LUA coding and a lot of elements and linking. With an API for the dispensers we could have automated the whole process, but now we need to update each dispenser with a new price.

 

All these display items, dispensers, back end system elements and links makes the place quite laggy, but it works.

We don't have thousands of customers, but enough to make money to expand and keep working on new ideas.

 

We've built a small part of the society, we succeed, and it's fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am worried if this is "the last patch before launch". Or do we get final feature update at launch?

 

There are essential parts of the game still missing:

  • RDMS is totally missing the D = Duties part
  • Energy is not implemented
  • Player markets are missing
  • Only one star-system
  • Star gates+probes to find other systems and build star gate networks

All these are "Big Game changers" and may create problems if introduced after launch.

 

Edit: And all missing pvp features

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do love that Aphelia doesn't care if you murder each other or become a pirate (this after saving a tiny slice of humans from a world-ending tragedy) -- but players making markets outside its supervision? That it cannot allow. 

 

5 hours ago, kulkija said:

I am worried if this is "the last patch before launch". Or do we get final feature update at launch?

 

There are essential parts of the game still missing:

  • RDMS is totally missing the D = Duties part
  • Energy is not implemented
  • Player markets are missing
  • Only one star-system
  • Star gates+probes to find other systems and build star gate networks

 

Yeah, this is the last major update before launch. They've said that there will be smaller updates before release, but IMO those will be focused on balance and bugs.

 

They'd be a bit dumb to slap new features in before release without leaving room for several patches focused on bug fixes and polish. 

 

They say it'll keep getting updates post-release, but they still don't seem to understand how MMOs work or the expectations they set with adverts and a monthly sub. People will not patiently wait around forever...they should know this based on how the public beta launch worked. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the idea of the space market, I think I like the space market as presented in the Dev blog, I do not know if I'll like the actual implementation of the space market...

 

I already considered making a BIG space station at the middle of the safe zone, this might really push me to actually do it... It got put on the back-burner due to the constant major changes that required my attention way more over the last year...

 

I understand the issues, but depending on which people and what kind of resources are involved, it might become an actual hub. But if and how that happens depends on so many factors, it's a complete crap shoot on when or IF that happens! Imho it will also depend on how easy it will be to dock/land on those landingpads...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/13/2022 at 5:11 PM, CptLoRes said:

Financial markets need stability to be truly successful. I.e. you will never get a player driven equivalent to DS6 if it can be "blown up" at any time, or if players feel unsafe while staying there.

That depends on what you mean by 'at any time' and what happens to the goods when the market is blown up really doesn't it?

 

Right now the biggest risk for a player owned market would be that the owner would unsub and someone would IAR the whole thing.  If the market had a 2 week timer before being finally blown up that wouldn't be very different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Market in space is the result of laziness from dev team, they are not going toward at all the civilisation building mechanics the game is selling and supposed to have.

This is not a step forward players market and wallet API. 

But will only create an other pile of polluting trash space stations and abandoned ships all around it.

This is absolute shame that dev is focusing more on saving their effort by nerfing or under developing everything with the only pretext that an extreme minority of players may abuse of some features.
How about giving the majority of players better and deeper features/APIs, including some that will let us deal our self with greifers and cheaters?

Its painful to see after 7 years of development such poor decisions still taken
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder what is the point to introduce late-game features, such as Space market, Alien cores, plasma collectors, plasma material, and all those new high tier elements.

 

While at the same time planning to reset game back to start.

 

If, after reset, player progression speed is "right", it should take reasonable long time before even veterans can access and utilize these new features.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...