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when are we getting industry balance changes?


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Seems like a must do for NQ if they want to get the ball rolling after launch, so when are we going to see improvements to industry and schematic mechanics?

NQ have said before that they will work on it, but I haven't heard any updates about it recently.

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There has been some mentions here or there but as far as I know, we have not yet been given the specifics on any upcoming balance changes or approximate dates for the next major patch. So far NQ has only stated they are working towards preparing for official release (ie: the end of beta). They say there is a possibility that we could still see some minor patches and added features prior to that but no guarantees at the moment.

 

As you surmise, an industry balance pass is likely in the works and will probably be bundled together with the upcoming power management system and/or potential economy reset. We just have to be patient and wait for details/confirmation from the community managers.

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I would not say "upcoming" for anything NQ has mention they are "working on"

 

All we know is that NQ has said that the next major patch .. is release. I would expect to not see much, if any, changes between now and that patch beyond maybe some minor tweaks and fixes. On top of that I can't see NQ do any work on further enhancements until they have some sort of financial security allowing them to do so. For now, I think that scaling up again for release and maintaining that to the point where the numbers they will need can have a good experience is going to be enough of a challenge for NQ.

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20 hours ago, Cergorach said:

Mini games! For every product you want to produce, you require to complete a minigame, for every machine... 😉

All guessing games just to prevent any accidental fun.

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On 6/12/2022 at 4:47 PM, blazemonger said:

I would not say "upcoming" for anything NQ has mention they are "working on"

 

All we know is that NQ has said that the next major patch .. is release. I would expect to not see much, if any, changes between now and that patch beyond maybe some minor tweaks and fixes. On top of that I can't see NQ do any work on further enhancements until they have some sort of financial security allowing them to do so. For now, I think that scaling up again for release and maintaining that to the point where the numbers they will need can have a good experience is going to be enough of a challenge for NQ.

I'm very disappointed to see your other thread get locked, it was actually pretty useful. Oh well.

 

Are you saying the next update is not a major update, and there will be a major patch at release? 

 

I'm half expecting them to sell out and give us talent injectors at release as a pure money grab, but we'll see. 

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On 6/13/2022 at 9:51 AM, Maxim Kammerer said:

The last they told us about schematics sounds like they will go. But I don't think that they will just be removed. I expect them to be replaced with something even worse.

 

If they made schematics into something that needed to be researched with pure or just ore (rather than just blowing quanta at a market) I feel like that would come off so much better than the currently implemented system without actually changing the fundamentals of burn resources to unlock something new. 

 

The schematic research system could have its own talents (efficiency and speed) and give another group of players a reason to play. It would also open up a new market segment, and overall is just way better than the current sytem.

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I was shocked when they said they are considering removing schemattics. I get they are highly unpopular, and a sticking point for some people. But they are a gate keeper for production. It means when someone wants an item  they will actually check the market instead of build it themselves. It is also the largest quanta sink ingame.  If anything I feel that the prices on schemattics are far to cheap. Even for basic stuff. 

 

You make it harder to get production setup , less people will setup personal production lines and buy the item off the market.

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On 6/18/2022 at 4:13 PM, space_man said:

I'm very disappointed to see your other thread get locked, it was actually pretty useful. Oh well.


Isn't that they NQ way though, to lock anything where the narrative starts to turn against their favor? We see it time and time again, the effort to control the narrative, and if they were smart they would stop.

I have always felt if something is repeatedly said it is important to that person or the community.
If they are up in arms about it and showing passion even in a negative way, then it is important to that person or the community.

My constructive feedback for NQ is stop trying to control the narrative and what we post... essentially treating the symptom, and start focusing on the cause(broken game play/mechanics) of the symptoms (complaints).

Yes there will always be unhappy people, yes there will always be problems, but when things are in alignment then conversations change. When there are new positive things that the community ACTUALLY wants/requested/need being added is when you see positive posts and celebration.

The current forums, lack of players in game is a very clear communication that NQ is failing to meet the desires/needs of the community they have attracted.
Until NQ understands this, I fear things will never change, and they will simply continue trying to bandaid the community's pain points with other things even worse that we never asked for.

Edited by Rokkur
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3 hours ago, RugesV said:

I was shocked when they said they are considering removing schemattics. I get they are highly unpopular, and a sticking point for some people. But they are a gate keeper for production. It means when someone wants an item  they will actually check the market instead of build it themselves. It is also the largest quanta sink ingame.  If anything I feel that the prices on schemattics are far to cheap. Even for basic stuff. 

 

You make it harder to get production setup , less people will setup personal production lines and buy the item off the market.

No it is not, it is an impassable barriers that stop players in there tracks, hence the great exodus of 0.23.

Sure it fits with NQ stick and no reward mentality + survivalist grind fest, but if they want more customers they need to bring out the carrots and rewards. as only die hard fans seems willing to play and that in a niche game.

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5 hours ago, RugesV said:

I was shocked when they said they are considering removing schemattics. I get they are highly unpopular, and a sticking point for some people. But they are a gate keeper for production. It means when someone wants an item  they will actually check the market instead of build it themselves. It is also the largest quanta sink ingame.  If anything I feel that the prices on schemattics are far to cheap. Even for basic stuff. 

 

You make it harder to get production setup , less people will setup personal production lines and buy the item off the market.

 

That's fine in a game like EvE, but DU has hardly any content so of course most people do some factory stuff.  That's why 0.23 so many people left.  And it shows just how lacking DU is in sustainable content. 

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Careful what you ask for...

 

People asked for core to core transfer units and we got schematics when we asked about indy focused updates.

 

We tried to ask for an all option for transfer units, really anything that would allow us to make sorting machines. There are too many item types to not have this. We even saw the large about of items stated by the Dev's on the last Ask Aphelia podcast as something they know needs some way to better manage. We do not need the Devs to sort this out for us, just give us some simple tools so we can automate item sorting systems ourselves. 

 

Overall this game could see huge rewards if the Devs focus more on giving us systems to create content and game play opportunities. The "D" in RDMS is a great start. Let us create quests or missions to do simple things for orgs and offer payment or permissions as a reward. 

Lastly indy focused people really really like to expand automation. Give them much more automation options. 
 

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On 6/19/2022 at 9:44 PM, Kurosawa said:

No it is not, it is an impassable barriers that stop players in there tracks, hence the great exodus of 0.23.

Sure it fits with NQ stick and no reward mentality + survivalist grind fest, but if they want more customers they need to bring out the carrots and rewards. as only die hard fans seems willing to play and that in a niche game.

The only impassable barrier would be a pure industrialist.  And thats because you could never make enough money doing basic industry to earn enough for exotic schematics.  And thats not entirely true as some basic lines can be profitable. 

 

I do have an idea that could solve this progression bottleneck and add content to the game. Commodities.  Talking about crates of gears, servo's, hinges, flat walls, carbon bars........ And industrialist could mine, or buy carbon on Allioth. Turn it into carbon bars. and a bot market on Jago would buy those carbon bars for 150%. (or some other value some economist later decides.  

 

The key here is a pure industrialist has an industrial way of making profit. and is not forced to go out and mine or run aphealia missions. 

 

I would like to see this idea taken a step further.  Each market would have its own commodity requirements. (And generally require  things that are made from ores not available nearby.) (which would encourages shipping which encourages piracy.) And each market hub that has its commodity requirements met on a planet offer that planet some sort of boost.  IE maybe that territory taxes on that planet are lower, Or maybe the market tax on that planet are lower. Heck maybe even take it the opposite way and have a type of commodity that is supper supper heavy and if sold to a planet increases that planets market and territory tax.  And to  defend against that players must keep there planet supplied with basic commodities so they are not interested in buying these black market items. 

 

Something like this would add the resource sink that the game desperately needs.  And it would add progression to industry, even for newer players. And and a whole new slew of player driven content. 

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Commodities.. whatever functionality that add more grind is NOT what the game needs now. For sure they are mechanics that are needed in a functional MMO, but that is not where DU is at.

 

NQ should be 100% focused on adding fun to the game before they even start considering more gate keeper stuff at this stage.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I somewhere saw schematics are going to be removed, well that is a good balancing step. just sad to know we lost most of the driven players at 0.23 that will probably never come back.

 

still its a good start. But seeing what materials are needed per item, something is off and small stuff needs way to many materials.

 

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6 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

I somewhere saw schematics are going to be removed, well that is a good balancing step. just sad to know we lost most of the driven players at 0.23 that will probably never come back.

What was or is so bad about Schematics? Basically, they simply serve as a time lock, so that you do not build the factory within a short time with all the possibilities. So it's purely a time cost. From the player's point of view, does it matter if you have everything after a month or a year? In a sandbox game that you play over many years, it doesn't matter, and these schematics stretch that game content. (After all, there is hardly anything else).
In the end, the schematics help it to still have the performance after a month of playing. Just think how many mega factories would be standing around if you removed them and how it would eat away at the performance.

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1 hour ago, Zarcata said:

What was or is so bad about Schematics? Basically, they simply serve as a time lock, so that you do not build the factory within a short time with all the possibilities. So it's purely a time cost. From the player's point of view, does it matter if you have everything after a month or a year? In a sandbox game that you play over many years, it doesn't matter, and these schematics stretch that game content. (After all, there is hardly anything else).
In the end, the schematics help it to still have the performance after a month of playing. Just think how many mega factories would be standing around if you removed them and how it would eat away at the performance.

It depends on what you think is fun, as i see it schematics prevent creative and open play, you have to grind the money mill to get any where.

they are in line with requiring air/food/water, some like it some do not.

 

personally i think they added nothing at all to the game, it is a grind for the single purpose of grinding

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Schematics added industrialist to the game.  Before .23 if you wanted 2 gates for your base you would just spin up your machines and make them yourself. Now you look at the cost of schematics and say hmm I only want 2 gates. OK I will buy those on the market instead of buying the schematics. 

 

This creates situations where people actually buy and sell things.

 

You want creative and open play? Why not go a step further and just give everyone God mode so they can just spawn stuff at will without having to make it. Then it would be creative mode.

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52 minutes ago, RugesV said:

Schematics added industrialist to the game.  Before .23 if you wanted 2 gates for your base you would just spin up your machines and make them yourself. Now you look at the cost of schematics and say hmm I only want 2 gates. OK I will buy those on the market instead of buying the schematics. 

 

This creates situations where people actually buy and sell things.

 

You want creative and open play? Why not go a step further and just give everyone God mode so they can just spawn stuff at will without having to make it. Then it would be creative mode.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but putting in schematics by bots and nothing else shows their lack of imagination. They could have added a power number to industry units too, and limit the power on a core that can run them.  Now that industrialst that wants to grow has to really plan their industry, and it also has to Manually move parts from one core to another. A dedicated industrialst then can still produce almost everything but it also takes work, many cores, planning, maintenance.  Thus extending gameplay. Schematic is just a money time sink. I know people who have factory that make 95%+ the stuff In game, and just drop ore in and it automatically maintains. Thus meaning their gameplay is largely over.

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As seen by the exudus of players around 0.23 schematics did not extetnd gameplay,  but rater cut is short.

It added nothing to gameplay other then a wack a mole mechanic and time sink which in turn remove time from actual desired play.

 

For people that can build any thing the game is not over, it has just begun, they can now focus purely on the game with building/pvp/open explorations and so on

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11 hours ago, CousinSal said:

I know people who have factory that make 95%+ the stuff In game, and just drop ore in and it automatically maintains. Thus meaning their gameplay is largely over.

 

Not true. 

 

When automated factory is ready, it does not produce nothing.

 

You have to supply constant flow of ore to make your factory run.

You also need to cover costs for acquiring raw materials.

 

At this point you are only creating losses, and yes your game will be soon over because you run out of Quanta.

 

To at least cover costs running your factory you need to sell stuff, with profit. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, kulkija said:

 

Not true. 

 

When automated factory is ready, it does not produce nothing.

 

You have to supply constant flow of ore to make your factory run.

You also need to cover costs for acquiring raw materials.

 

At this point you are only creating losses, and yes your game will be soon over because you run out of Quanta.

 

To at least cover costs running your factory you need to sell stuff, with profit. 

 

 

 

Tell that to the people I know who have multiple billions, and all they do Is dump ore in.  It literally happens. 

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1 hour ago, CousinSal said:

 

Tell that to the people I know who have multiple billions, and all they do Is dump ore in.  It literally happens. 

How they get that ore?

Don't they sell their stuff at all?

How they earn quanta? Indy units do not create quanta...

 

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1 hour ago, kulkija said:

How they get that ore?

Don't they sell their stuff at all?

How they earn quanta? Indy units do not create quanta...

 

 

Their industry game play. That's what I'm talking about.  And they still have millions left over from the mega node days. Once you build your mega factory then majority of your indy gameplay is over. Drag and drop ore. 

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