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NQ: Time to answer the question - Will there be a wipe?


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Yesterday, while playing the MU minigame running around 30km to harvest the calibration throw-outs, I was thinking of visiting the forum and checking the climate of the players posting here. I remembered today and did so. To my surprise the wipe discussion hit the halls again. What a shock ran through my veines !

 

BUT THEN ...

Its hard to confess, but the more I think about that WIPE the more I start to like that idea.

 

That would be my way to - stop playing, stop thinking, planning, dreaming - any longer about DU.

No more hours and hours and HOURS of scanning one planet after another with no success for anything. No more pressure to do anything for growth. No more questionmarks for things I cant lookup somewhere. All that gone - with just that one little simple WIPE.

 

As a Ruby-Founder my word does not count much, since no sub needed. So, I wouldn't be a big loss for NQ anyways.

I'm thankful for DU, I enjoyed it much with my friends. Thinking back to the days on Sanctuary learning how to crash.

It was a good time. Really.

 

Thanks for all your writings guys.

Did "enjoy" to read through.

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49 minutes ago, Captain Hills said:

Yesterday, while playing the MU minigame running around 30km to harvest the calibration throw-outs, I was thinking of visiting the forum and checking the climate of the players posting here. I remembered today and did so. To my surprise the wipe discussion hit the halls again. What a shock ran through my veines !

 

BUT THEN ...

Its hard to confess, but the more I think about that WIPE the more I start to like that idea.

 

That would be my way to - stop playing, stop thinking, planning, dreaming - any longer about DU.

No more hours and hours and HOURS of scanning one planet after another with no success for anything. No more pressure to do anything for growth. No more questionmarks for things I cant lookup somewhere. All that gone - with just that one little simple WIPE.

 

As a Ruby-Founder my word does not count much, since no sub needed. So, I wouldn't be a big loss for NQ anyways.

I'm thankful for DU, I enjoyed it much with my friends. Thinking back to the days on Sanctuary learning how to crash.

It was a good time. Really.

 

Thanks for all your writings guys.

Did "enjoy" to read through.

 

NQ brought it on themselves by announcing that wipe was still on the table. They don't have a roadmap or even a clear plan, other than getting the game to release, so they can boot all of the beta players.

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1 hour ago, Captain Hills said:

Yesterday, while playing the MU minigame running around 30km to harvest the calibration throw-outs, I was thinking of visiting the forum and checking the climate of the players posting here. I remembered today and did so. To my surprise the wipe discussion hit the halls again. What a shock ran through my veines !

 

BUT THEN ...

Its hard to confess, but the more I think about that WIPE the more I start to like that idea.

 

That would be my way to - stop playing, stop thinking, planning, dreaming - any longer about DU.

No more hours and hours and HOURS of scanning one planet after another with no success for anything. No more pressure to do anything for growth. No more questionmarks for things I cant lookup somewhere. All that gone - with just that one little simple WIPE.

 

As a Ruby-Founder my word does not count much, since no sub needed. So, I wouldn't be a big loss for NQ anyways.

I'm thankful for DU, I enjoyed it much with my friends. Thinking back to the days on Sanctuary learning how to crash.

It was a good time. Really.

 

Thanks for all your writings guys.

Did "enjoy" to read through.

As a Ruby founder your voice and story matters a huge amount.  How they have treated the founders over the past 6 years is a reflection of what will happen in the next 6 years to come.

 

Hopefully we all still play and DU is a success!

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--- Declaration of Conformity ---

 

About Wipe - for the devs eyes and not only .

 

I personally dont think a full server wipe is really needed at all.

Unless an fatal error persists on game server loading all player's assets at the time of the release their is no need to wipe.

There is no software change that demands that wipe and so player's assets can remain as is. But you should know better that ofc.

At this time the "partially" wipe was : the meganodes , the scans, the geometry reset , the market clean up and ofc the core count .

Now as of fair gameplay and the chance for new players to procced to the game , I dont think there is much of a gap there at all .

If there is a wipe there is a lot of players who subbed and supported the game for  so long and deserve to get what they already have and if the wipe happens you make a player who is paying for years for subs the same thing with someone who will sub for a month or for how long we dont know -  and that is not fair . And with no reason . A new player can proceed very fast to what wants to accomplish in the game with or without the use of alts. 

We are getting into a situation of " I wanna play now , you wanna play later" and so on...

As of exploits that people got extra money ingame I am sure you can find the formula about it and make the correct decision.

And I think you should make that specific decision and wipe that illegal money out of the game once and for all.

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Please do not wipe. Release with a new star system. Give existing players Helios access as we have today with no immediate way to get to the new system. Start new players on the new system (maybe let them pick in case they have friends in Helios). Provide a star gate type tech with a 90-180 day total craft time. Connect the systems months after release. 
 

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13 hours ago, Endstar said:

Please do not wipe. Release with a new star system. Give existing players Helios access as we have today with no immediate way to get to the new system. Start new players on the new system (maybe let them pick in case they have friends in Helios). Provide a star gate type tech with a 90-180 day total craft time. Connect the systems months after release. 
 

Split the player population in two? No, that is as bad as wiping.

 

Newbie: Help!

Vet: Sorry, can't help you. I'm in quarantine.

 

NQ: Look at the new caves and environments we introduced, go play with it.

Vet: Can't, I'm i quarantine.

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6 minutes ago, merihimRefin said:

If vets have to farm everything new, they cant help either. And many vets will not even play anymore so they cant even spread their knowledge. 

I have to admit that it is rather good for the game) "Nature will be fine, people are not"

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8 hours ago, AdmiralYolomoto said:

I have to admit that it is rather good for the game) "Nature will be fine, people are not"

This is totally true for the sake to learn how to do the things !

 

it was given to me on Sanctuary - without the Schematics

.. but this is there no more

 

new players will crack under the pressure of missing knowledge and missing Schematics

 

even though Schematics is a good thing - outside of the kindergarden

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I’m already not playing because of the possibility of a wipe looming and my son is in the same boat. If a wipe happens, I don’t think either of us come back. If not, I’ll gladly pay our subs and keep on going - otherwise it’s a no for me.

 

I see literally no benefit of doing a server reset. You wanna reset HQ status so people have to manually add it in the game a few weeks before launch, be my guest. Purge more inactives through the game systems you designed, not some ham fisted way that will cause many of the people actually playing to pack up and leave.

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13 hours ago, merihimRefin said:

If vets have to farm everything new, they cant help either. And many vets will not even play anymore so they cant even spread their knowledge. 

Not to mention that the new player experience has been ass since forever. Frankly, the only real reason recent players have stuck around this long is because the existing community was there to pick up the slack - teaching newbies, giving them ships, missions, materials, and direction that the tutorial failed to sufficiently provide.

 

I think if they wipe, they lose all of that and more. Probably worse, as disgruntled players and content creators will be warning new players away instead of welcoming them. And I say that as someone who loves a good launch day - it would be a huge mistake.

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I am already in the process of mothballing my stuff. I can't justify any more hours investing in this if it all goes up in smoke.  There was minor progress on the PTS , with at least weapons fire being visible. The situational awareness is still poor,  hard to see who locked radar on you when all the ships have the same name. (which I am sure is a deliberate tactic by orgs)

 

There needs to be a yellow glow or highlight on ship icons that have targeted you. The warning that "You are being attacked!" isn't very useful unless its just the two of you out in deep space.

 

My experience with the PvP was mediocre at best. The ship I was targeting kept jumping around, as if it couldn't decide where it was. After I changed direction to follow it, it suddenly teleported back to its original position defying all laws of physics both real and imaginary. Sounds like a cache or buffer problem.

The new mechanics have promise, but it is a bit of lipstick on a pig. The experience has to be snappy (not sluggish), smooth and consistent. Still no HUD for solo players, its nuts to have to keep hitting INS multiple times to toggle between flying/situational awareness and managing weapons. 

I have thousands of warp cells from my factories in storage, but I am having a hard time being motivated to feed them with raw ore.  I could go anywhere I want, but not feeling the desire right now with the combination of releasing the game without planetary land warfare and possible wipe announcement.

Edited by Carnegie
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On 3/30/2022 at 10:25 AM, Captain Hills said:

 

 

BUT THEN ...

Its hard to confess, but the more I think about that WIPE the more I start to like that idea.

 

That would be my way to - stop playing, stop thinking, planning, dreaming - any longer about DU.

No more hours and hours and HOURS of scanning one planet after another with no success for anything. No more pressure to do anything for growth. No more questionmarks for things I cant lookup somewhere. All that gone - with just that one little simple WIPE.

 

 

 

Given what you say here, I'm actually starting to think such a scenario would be healthy for you. 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/1/2022 at 8:42 AM, Yoarii said:

Split the player population in two? No, that is as bad as wiping.

 

Newbie: Help!

Vet: Sorry, can't help you. I'm in quarantine.

 

NQ: Look at the new caves and environments we introduced, go play with it.

Vet: Can't, I'm i quarantine.

Maybe, maybe not.

Veterans can still help in chat, forum/Discuss, and VR.

No transferring of assets and quanta between systems until they have a working warpgate between them.

Give old players the option to wipe (or just subscribe another alt) and start in the new system clean.

Maybe give new players the option to start in the old system after significant warnings.

Give both sides a year to prepare, then start an event so both sides can start finding/building a warpgate.

 

Imho this could work. BUT it would just create more work and require more resources from NQ, so I don't see this happening. Also because there just aren't enough people currently on the old system, and honestly speaking, I do not see this changing.

 

For me if NQ does a wipe-wipe, it's the same as if they turned of the servers for me. Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me!

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On 3/28/2022 at 10:49 PM, blazemonger said:

The day after the wipe, the few big orgs that are left will have a good part of their infractructure back up and running

Previously, yes that would happen. But now you can't mine your tile as you did previously. You need to do it by picking up ore... Building stuff outside your backpack requires schematics, which require quanta. Everyone starts with 150k quanta per day, need to do missions for additional quanta, Alioth to Alioth mission pay sucks. You can't buy/build space ships yet that let you do the long range missions.

 

Imho the first priority would be to build a DSAT. Not only does that require tens of millions of quanta to get all of the required schematics (components/manufacturing), you need to pick them up from other planets (long range spaceship, warp is not yet attainable). Then a space ship that has enough storage capacity/weight allowance to fly the mined ore back and forth between asteroid and planet. The automining route is needed, but that also takes time and skills you do not yet have...

 

So yeah, a big org might have their infra back up SOON(tm), but not within a day. They would also do a couple of projects at the same time, getting a huge head start on regular players. For an individual, it might just not be feasible to start from scratch in a DU game that has virtually no player made content ready...

 

And claiming stuff outside of your Sanctuary tile... Good luck, have you seen what's required for building Territory units?

 

This isn't the start to beta it was 18 months ago. Add together Schematic introduction, the death of planetside mining, etc. And restarting this game sounds like something for people that are into a whole TON of boring stuff! Currently new players can buy a lot of stuff cheap on the market! And imho that's important for new players. NQ could seed the market (again) with NPC sell orders, but that imho just kills any player driven market...

 

Large groups of people are again at an advantage. People with money (or DAC from the KS) are again at an advantage. People who can spend 100 hours/week on DU are again at an advantage. This is never going to change. But as we see with EVE Online, this should not impact interest in an MMO all that much, imho it feels like your entering a living breathing universe with a history.

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Medium sized org with ~100 members will have 15Mill quanta starting fund ever 23h just from the 150K. Plenty enough to spearhead a mission/mining expedition to get the big quanta flowing in a couple of days.

 

Which leads to my point that a wipe will not fix the economy by itself.

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I have no idea how many MMOs you have played so far and how many betas you have participated in, personally I have been active in MMORPGs since DAOC, and participated in a large multitude of beta versions of games and it has never happened before that the servers did not come reset before the release of the official version and the real and only reason lies not in the predictions or fantasies of what the game will be in the future but in the fact that a beta version cannot be considered an honest and clean start to the game , as versions of the game and radical changes have been made throughout this long period, and among many veterans there have been those who through previous non-perfected versions have made trillions of quanta and exploited the game or even created resource and mission farming through free beta keys. So if we want to keep talking about bullshit, we can go on indefinitely on wipe yes, wipe no. We all know in our hearts that none of us would ever participate as a new player in the launch of a game knowing that there is already a community of players who have gained experience, objects, how much and much more during 5/6 years of beta. where as soon as you enter you cannot find a hole if no planet to claim a territory and where organizations have had 5 years to find all the resources they wanted. Someone will say "oh yes but even with the wipe in 2/3 years it will be the same for the players who will come" yes it will certainly be so if in the meantime some game dynamics do not change in my opinion of a few broad views.

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Alpha, beta, balpha... Rarely have I heard so useless talking points than the pedantism surrounding the balpha rants.

 

BuT bEtA iS fEaTuRe CoMpLeTe

 

aight so everytime a released game patches in new features we retroactively declare the past development cycles as alpha right?!

 

 

 

 

 

If nobody is ever gonna have a reason to join a DU server in progress, you can scrap the whole persistent world idea and shutt off the lights at NQ now, why wait for a shitty relaunch. If this game cannot engage newcomers and get them started, the whole premisse is absolutely pointless. You guys go watch daylong timers every 6 months when we regularly wipe that's gonna be one hell of game am I right -.-. iTs NoT fAiR MmO sHoUlD sTaRt WhEn I dO.

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5 hours ago, Neuritico said:

I have no idea how many MMOs you have played so far and how many betas you have participated in, personally I have been active in MMORPGs since DAOC, and participated in a large multitude of beta versions of games and it has never happened before that the servers did not come reset before the release of the official version and the real and only reason lies not in the predictions or fantasies of what the game will be in the future but in the fact that a beta version cannot be considered an honest and clean start to the game , as versions of the game and radical changes have been made throughout this long period, and among many veterans there have been those who through previous non-perfected versions have made trillions of quanta and exploited the game or even created resource and mission farming through free beta keys. So if we want to keep talking about bullshit, we can go on indefinitely on wipe yes, wipe no. We all know in our hearts that none of us would ever participate as a new player in the launch of a game knowing that there is already a community of players who have gained experience, objects, how much and much more during 5/6 years of beta. where as soon as you enter you cannot find a hole if no planet to claim a territory and where organizations have had 5 years to find all the resources they wanted. Someone will say "oh yes but even with the wipe in 2/3 years it will be the same for the players who will come" yes it will certainly be so if in the meantime some game dynamics do not change in my opinion of a few broad views.

 

Your missing the entire point. There is no content in this game without the players. Literally. Nothing. PvP? Nope, good luck starting that any time soon. All you can do is sit around MMB'ing skittles till you can afford a mining unit. Industry will take large orgs days to get back up and running with the free quanta + bot orders + missions (people will be on these before even the first warp drives are up), but the average new person post wipe? Good luck. Right now we have the backbone to help support new people to come into the game, there are free ships everywhere to get people started, some people give out t1/t2 MUs even. 

 

Everyone also keeps mentioning all these new players that would come in. Where are they coming from? There isn't a stash of new players somewhere waiting. The people who wanted to try/play the game have already. Calling something a launch might bring in a few new faces, but we are not going to see the normal MMO rush. With everything that is already out there about DU, most people will make the connection that the game has already launched in a since and really isn't new. 

 

This isn't a matter of people coming in and being behind. There is a upper limit a decent chunk of people have reached. With the current state of the game if a few groups of new players come in, it would take them a few weeks to reach that if they are playing decently. 

 

I really don't understand why a wipe is even on the table. Its not the 99.9%s fault that NQ didn't take a firmer stance on the 0.1% exploiting the game with duplications and "cheap" Schems among other things. Had they actually had enough backbone to actually AT THE VERY LEAST remove the items and refund the schematics there wouldn't even be this conversation. Its already been mentioned that a decent chunk of the people who currently make the content in the game wont be coming back if there is a wipe, and the small trickle of people they will see for the "release" who probably wont stay will not make up for that.

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7 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

Medium sized org with ~100 members will have 15Mill quanta starting fund ever 23h just from the 150K. Plenty enough to spearhead a mission/mining expedition to get the big quanta flowing in a couple of days.

 

Which leads to my point that a wipe will not fix the economy by itself.

I’m kind of skeptical of that if talents are wiped too. I mean, you can’t just go buy things on the open market, they have to be made. Talents have to be trained, BPs have to be bought, TUs and MUs made just to mine more than skittles - all of which require ore that you’ll get at a fraction of the pace you could now/pre-demeter. Having quanta helps, but getting the infrastructure up and running could take a lot more time than two days, even with limitless funds.

 

Honestly, NQ should do a wipe on PTS and see for themselves what a cluster-f of a crawl it’ll be. The game is a lot different now than it was after the last wipe, and I think if they saw what a world starting from zero was like for the average player, they would axe the idea. 

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2 hours ago, CyberDay said:

Everyone also keeps mentioning all these new players that would come in. Where are they coming from? There isn't a stash of new players somewhere waiting. The people who wanted to try/play the game have already.

 

I don't really agree with this, but I do agree that any "rush" of new players from launch will mostly churn....

 

NQ's early beta launch press and the "press" since then has only scratched the surface of the wider demographics of gamers that might be interested in the game.

 

We're talking about a pool of hundreds of millions of gamers that have played MMOs or are actively playing at least one now. The vast majority of those people don't read any gaming press...there's no reason to think they would all know about DU already. 

 

Even if NQ had unlimited marketing money, reaching every one of these users with ads would be difficult. 

 

If the population now is "the best NQ can do" and launch merely doubles it....then there's nothing to discuss because wipe or not, that's not even close to being enough subs to support this company. 

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