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When a ship with an active shield is being shot, will the resistance of the element/voxel matter that would be hit, or the resistance of the shield, or both?

Can you use multiple shields?

Can you already allow the building (release schematics) of the items and then "enable" them with the patch? That way people can already make, trade and build with the shields and are ready when they are released. Otherwise, given the Honeycomb HP nerf, people will have to wait until they get a shield before they can continue their normal gameplay.

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2 hours ago, NQ-Deckard said:

Hello Noveans!

 

We really want to hear your feedback and concerns on the upcoming PvP changes, please give us constructive feedback on both what you like and dislike.

looks like some great changes, but i would like to point out that there is still not really a point to using non L cores. even if you wanted to use xs guns it would be much more worthwhile to put those xs guns on an L core.

I am also worried that there will be many ships which will look like giant pins, having a really small cross section and an L shield to mitigate as much damage as possible.

I think if you added some sort of benefit with smaller cores that you cannot replicate in an L core, like having a higher max speed or a hit probability bonus would help to see more xs cores on the battlefield, because as I said there is nothing stopping you from just putting an xs sized ship in an L core to take advantage of the higher dps.

I am also kinda unhappy that engineering/repairing gameplay has been thrown out the window. perhaps adding something else to do like a shield controller which could be connected to a shield and controlled to assist with shield protection would help.

I also have a problem with burying seats in the center of ships. having the need for windows for pilots etc would lead to some really creative ship designs imo.

and another thing; this might be controversial, but I think that you should be unable to solo pilot ships with non xs guns by using a remote control and a gunner chair simultainously. solo piloting should be a niche that only xs guns can take advantage of, not S,M and L guns as well.

 

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We really need the Desync Issue addressed. Currently weapons miss targets so often, not due to tracking. Players become desync'ed and must completely close the game during combat before guns will begin to work again. 

Known Issues

  • Firing multiple weapons leads to very high rates of missing due to internal timeouts, we are actively investigating the issue.

This above known issue should really be addressed before release, Starbase be dammed

 

Game optimization needs to be addressed

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why having to increase the pv of light voxels not only to have lower all the life points of voxels   ? 


Carbon - 68 hp / kg
Silicon - 68 hp / kg
Aluminum - 64 hp / kg
Steel - 34.5 hp / kg
Copper - 32 hp / kg
Silver - 28.5 hp / kg
Gold - 16.5 hp / kg

which makes the voxels of T1 [Carbon, Silicium, Aluminum] superior in armor to the voxel t2 t3 t4 t5 is that it is not normal.
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so many feedback

voxel nerf without keeping same ratio on pv / kg is absurd

now you can do lithium borg L cube with 14G easy... (and with more pv than same weight iron / copper /silver /gold ship ?)

shield need to be adjust
maybe n-1 n+1 should apply so :
xs core can take xs / s shield
s core can take xs / s / m shield
m core can take s / m / L shield
L core can take m / L shield
about shield another issue : they are ultra weak
45s -1min to down L shield with 6gunners (tested with lasers -1min 30s / 1min 45s with missiles)

size of weapon .... enormous big gigantic nerf for design and optimisation

railgun L ...... useless with less damage than xs cannon


Another issue for PVP is fuel usage of engine (also for transport / asteroids mining / missions)
reduce it by 30-40% to allow ship to manoevre more in fight (also allow to not loose money while trying low tier asteroids actually doing the mini game to discover one will cost much than ore value on it )

pts issue : lag on the serv made many of us unable to test things (some can't play)

astéroids cycle seems to be a too low with one week respawn maybe it'll be better acurate on 3 days (more opportunity - more fights -more ore)
astéroids cycle won't be regular (if not some time zone will never see any exotic / rare ones)
 

FOR PVE BOYS WHO WANT GLASS COCKPIT ON PVP SHIP OPEN GOOGLE AND CHECK WARSHIPS (they are big metal blocks) - ( and think that spaceship would be more like submarine than yaght )

 

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The game must have progression you start with XS to end up with an L core ship but with these changes, you make L ships not viable because of the cost-effectiveness. Making too good smaller ships is just not worth flying big because if you lose you lose so much more. An L ships cost can be 100 times more than an xs ship but can be destroyed now by these changes by 4 XS 

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Some much needed love to pvp. PVP fleet battles have easily been some of the most fun I have had in this game. Please address the known and still existing bugs. Having a more balanced pvp will not help if all you register is misses with 100% probs. This was how my last battle went. 

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Hi Deckard,

First, we need fixes for lag, desync, miss and all the recurring PVP problems that make the game uninteresting and make players leave. Battles on DU are made of small fleets and it is abnormal that a simple 1vs1 is difficult to bear because of these concerns.

Not to mention the many abuses left possible with the alt F4 to stop the ship + reconnections to resume the same speed while we had to brake to not lose the target, the dead cores which never stop if there is a VR or a person who reconnects on it etc...

Stop Janko ship (stacked elements/glitched) and elements/weapons deep in the voxels.


We need a solution for piracy. Disconnecting characters on ships was not interesting and you did well to prevent that, but we need new solutions. With the arrival of shields it will be even more complex to intercept hauler which, once they see us on the outskirts of the planets, will return to SafeZone or they will be out of the pipes and therefore inscannable for us.

We would therefore need radars with more range (at the same time making high tier railguns and radar interesting) or a tracking system.

We need recycling, in order to be able to make a minimum profit from totally destroyed vessels, instead of storing them in pieces in containers without being able to use the damaged elements for BP or sales.
 

And soon with the asteroids, we need a system that is more open to team play. Currently they are so small and so rare for high thirds that it is going to be a real headache and if small groups or solo players are not attracted to this content because of the big PVP groups, they will not create any content, the others will not come any more or will avoid the fight and will come to mine in jetpack.

If there are more high-tier asteroids, there is less risk, so more people will take risks.

Finally, the PVP balance does not matter to me, I prefer to have a game that works even without a meta that I like. Give us the opportunity to play, that's all we ask.

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42 minutes ago, Walter said:

The game must have progression you start with XS to end up with an L core ship but with these changes, you make L ships not viable because of the cost-effectiveness. Making too good smaller ships is just not worth flying big because if you lose you lose so much more. An L ships cost can be 100 times more than an xs ship but can be destroyed now by these changes by 4 XS 

i just want to remind you that with the same amount of people in an L core would do 27 times more damage, the range is tiny on xs ships so its impossible to get close, and that L cores only cost like 2 mil, so you could just strap an L core on a tiny ship and fight. i think it should be the opposite, lots of small ships would shake up the meta a lot more. making L cores able to be killed by xs ships would shake up the meta a lot more and help diversify the battlefield.

 

also, there is a big misunderstanding here, its not a 3x damage difference from xs to L cores, its a 3x damage difference from M to L cores. so 4 M cores can destroy an L core, which is still a lot imo.

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5 minutes ago, Shaman said:

i just want to remind you that with the same amount of people in an L core would do 27 times more damage, the range is tiny on xs ships so its impossible to get close, and that L cores only cost like 2 mil, so you could just strap an L core on a tiny ship and fight. i think it should be the opposite, lots of small ships would shake up the meta a lot more. making L cores able to be killed by xs ships would shake up the meta a lot more and help diversify the battlefield.

 

also, there is a big misunderstanding here, its not a 3x damage difference from xs to L cores, its a 3x damage difference from M to L cores. so 4 M cores can destroy an L core, which is still a lot imo.

nope what walter said before is true (don't forget rate of fire etc and you'll see)

 

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3 minutes ago, ch3w8a said:

nope what walter said before is true (don't forget rate of fire etc and you'll see)

 

even then, i still think its balanced. it takes 3 times the manpower to outdamage an L core, which is a lot.

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The people that don't engage in PvP now are for the most part people that don't like the mechanic. 'Balancing' shields and honeycomb is going to do nothing to convince them to partake.  Cheap game design to try and force PvP like idiot anti-warp packages for missions and system-wide APBs on asteroids (imagine in the gold rush a prospector finds the mother load and his first stop in town is the saloon where he loudly brags about his find and it's location saying he'll be headed to claim office the very next afternoon....).  Do the hard work of proper game design to encourage PvP, like territory and resource control and people will hold their nose at the crappy combat mechanic and take part.  Orgs will put together large groups to compete for those resources.  Game design that FORCES PvP in order to merely access a couple of KL of T3 ore will just drive players from the game.

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8 minutes ago, Kruzer said:

The people that don't engage in PvP now are for the most part people that don't like the mechanic. 'Balancing' shields and honeycomb is going to do nothing to convince them to partake.  Cheap game design to try and force PvP like idiot anti-warp packages for missions and system-wide APBs on asteroids (imagine in the gold rush a prospector finds the mother load and his first stop in town is the saloon where he loudly brags about his find and it's location saying he'll be headed to claim office the very next afternoon....).  Do the hard work of proper game design to encourage PvP, like territory and resource control and people will hold their nose at the crappy combat mechanic and take part.  Orgs will put together large groups to compete for those resources.  Game design that FORCES PvP in order to merely access a couple of KL of T3 ore will just drive players from the game.

its not forced, if you aren't willing to fight for the ore you can still just run missions in safe zone and buy it. You can use ore all the way to T5 without spending a single bullet for it. This whole rant wasnt very helpful.

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18 minutes ago, Kruzer said:

Do the hard work of proper game design to encourage PvP, like territory and resource control and people will hold their nose at the crappy combat mechanic and take part.

...isn't that exactly what asteroids are adding though?

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this updates pros and cons

 

Pros

-weapon tweaking, to be more helpful for server performance

-Gold nerf, as a seasoned pvp player since start of beta, as long as it was pure gold any ship was too difficult to shoot and kill without 4 hours worth of ammo (not joking)

-Shields giving cargo, lighter pvp ships a better chance at surviving with the new voxel nerfs

-asteroids, something to fight over in pvp space finally. Pvp before had no objectives to fight over and was for pure bragging rights. Now we can benefit for putting our constructs in danger

-glitch ships seem to be addressed on the PTS although not completely fixed but thats a good direction to go in

-Fight Times, the most expensive ship will die if its shot at enough in pvp space and it wont take 4 hours to kill someone

-PVP is now super cheap, anyone can get into it and they should. Missions really helped build bank accounts to afford the inventory needed
 

Cons

-Exotic phased radars have no purpose? whats the point of locking someone out to 4 SU if the game only lets you see 2 SU by Default?

-Docked Cores with res nodes and VR Surrogates allowing random players to spawn on destroyed constructs and enter build mode to delete a ship they dont own or even shot at

-Sunk guns inside solid voxel mass are still not obstructed and can fire freely, as well as other elements like brakes/adjusters/engines

 

Suggestions

-Recycling elements with lost lives would be cool (scraping it down for parts or giving the option to repair it with new parts)

-Destroyed Constructs coming to complete stops when destroyed. (people VR over after the ship died and ride it with the momentum it had before death making it impossible to capture due to server desync)

-Upgrade server performance with other Tiered Elements (uncommon wings M, advanced retrobrakes, exotic adjusters) this will lighten the load of the server when ships are using walls of brakes and adjusters

-wrecks on asteroids? 

-this one is kinda extreme, I would remove XS guns, make S guns automated only, make M guns attach to a pilots chair instead of a gunner's chair and make M cores ships the new "Fighter" type, and introduce a reloader unit (transfer unit basically) to reload the ammo containers for all weapons that works on all constructs

-Make a friend or foe system? you have a transponder element in the game, but I need to use custom scripts to use it and it doesnt really work that well... I wish we could openly declare war on enemies and promote allying with our friends. At the moment all ships are viewed the same. 

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with Capacity nerfs to rails and lasers I feel like it would be interesting to be able to mix weapon sizes one can attach to a gunner chair. Having 2 L rails and a bunch of smaller weapons (like S or M cannons) to fill the left-over capacity of an L chair sounds like it would bring all sorts of interesting variety builds to ships. You could make L-core ships true weapon platforms with a vast amount of smaller guns but less effective against larger vessels, whose large weapons would still outgun the smaller range of the smaller weapons.
M gunner chairs would still be relevant (as would S gunner chairs) as these are still restricted by the ship core size. This way an M-core ship would still logically not be a good match in a 1v1 against a larger vessel, as it has smaller capacity for weaponry.

However, I do understand that this might become a little tough to balance. Just my 2 cents though. Otherwise FuriousPuppy has brought up a lot of good points already.

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3 hours ago, FuriousPuppy said:

its not forced, if you aren't willing to fight for the ore you can still just run missions in safe zone and buy it. You can use ore all the way to T5 without spending a single bullet for it. This whole rant wasnt very helpful.

It's absolutely forced. Ok not if you're only definition of 'force' is with violence.  But making packages cancel the ability warp is attempting to force PvP encounters and is a short cut in game design to try to get players to participate in it.  Having an alarm bell go off on asteroid discoveries is again a forced game element to artificially drive PvP.  Asteroids are a temporary resource that are neither long lived enough or large enough to result in large scale Org vs Org conflict. 

 

Look, there is a big chunk of the player base that doesn't find the combat mechanic very compelling.  Target locking involves no skill and is a back ground calculation as is hit (or miss) location as is damage.  That's likely due to technical limitations of the server, so be it.  The only way you are going to get more players involved is to expand the role of combat/conflict in the game.  We'll see what asteroids does for the game but I everything that I've heard about asteroids indicates that their purpose had a lot more to do with alleviating server issues caused by planetary mining.  If so, that is very bad news for the introduction of a new system.  So granted I have a bias about asteroids because I believe that the introduction of a new system with zero safe zones is one of the few things that will save this game.  But, yes I could be wrong. Maybe the current PvP orgs have enough of a player base to sustain the game. 

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Hello,

Same the weapon size limit per core size I think you need to do the same work to the shield.

Core XS= extra small shield

Core S = small shield / extra small shield

Core M = medium shield /  small shield / extra small shield

Core L = Large Shield / medium shield /  small shield / extra small shield

 

For my opinion I think you need update lock distance on radar to come back at the latest value exemple:

Space radar XS => 150km core XS  / 200km core S / 250km core M / 300km core L

Space radar S => 150km core XS  / 200km core S / 250km core M / 300km core L 

Space radar M => 150km core XS  / 200km core S / 250km core M / 300km core L

Space radar L => 150km core XS  / 200km core S / 250km core M / 300km core L

Because now xs ship can't have L weapon but only xs weapon so I think it's not a problem to a L ship with Large shield to take 15/20 hit of the xs weapon.

The problem currently is that a small vessel has no chance of approaching a large vessel, it will be destroyed before, especially given the life of the cockpit.

 

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The only realistic way to make XS and S core ships viable for PVP  is to give them specialized weapons. IE: Torpedoes and Bombs. They should have to carry them as a heavy payload. They should be limited to small numbers of ammunition. This does 2 things. It gives the smaller core ships SOME value in PVP Combat. It forces larger core ships to equip some smaller weapons more capable of hitting the smaller ships.

Not every person interested in PVP wants a battleship.

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These changes are a great step, a continued step in the right direction. Multiple METAs seem to be forming and though somethings seem obvious some are not. I have some weapon recommendations but I worry that if I make them it will spoil our battle strategy.

However, I would suggest a passive recharge for shields. Allow it to recharge slowly, so even in the fight if I can evade fire I can rebuild my shield slowly. Passively.

Consider special weapons for XS core ships, or special modules/roles. For the most part there is literally no reason to utilize these ship still. Even if there were 10 of them and I was in a single NG meta ship I would wipe them all out without risk.

I also wonder how much more difficult you want to make it, like you could remove the ability to use a remote from a gunner seat, or create an element/voxel system for connecting weapons to ammunition containers. If the connection gets damaged you could stop the weapon from firing.

Some EWAR type systems, like the Warp Bubble we have been long promised.

Ultimately I am super excited about the PVP changes and its gonna be a fun time having fights int he future. Thank you so much NQ for your hardwork

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So many great suggestions and feedback in this thread already. 

 

The issues with the voxel changes are the biggest thing that sticks out to me.  Why would you make Tier 1 materials so much tougher than other materials.  I mean in real life we dont hide behind lithium walls when someone shoots at us, and we sure as hell dont have have tanks made of Aluminum fighting on the battlefield.  Why would we make space ships that would use that as armor? 

 

Shields... shields need to be limited to the core size or you need to come up with an amount of power that every core puts off.  So you have to make choices... power a BIG shield on your little ship or power your engines.  

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Quote

Tracking

Tracking on weapons is the ability to reliably track and hit targets. Weapons with improved tracking will generally have better chances of hitting targets, especially smaller and faster ones.

 

There was always an intention that smaller ships should be able to evade damage from larger guns. In practice, this was not the case as L-based ships easily dispatched smaller constructs at various ranges. 

 

 

Not really and the way this is worded shows that NQ does not really understand the concept/mechanic. Tracking is directly related to transversal velocity as in; If there is no transversal velocity, the big guns will track just fine and probably one-shot the smaller ship. If the smaller ship uses it's agility to create transversal velocity which is higher that the tracking ability of the larger guns, it will be come (much) harder for the guns to track and hence, hit. I doubt DU actually takes transversal velocity into account or even calcutates it.

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