Ask Aphelia Episode #9 - Schematics Edition Discussion Thread

[NQ-Nyota]

We hope you enjoy this Ask Aphelia #9 this week all about schematics. Please let us know in this thread. Thanks!

[Msoul]

Great episode. Thank you for also taking the time to showcase the new interface.

 

One point of concern seems to be what will happen to industry units that are currently processing regular schematics when the update hits? Will said industry units be paused? Is there anything we as players need to do to prepare?

[Yoarii]

So based on the information in the video, it will take three hours to make ten schematics for a total of ten warp cells for a price of 50k? Is this correctly understood?

 

[Heartbeat1]

You understood it correctly, the question is how accurate are these shown numbers?
Are they modified after they recorded the Video?

Will the Industry finish their last Run like the Patches before or will every machine stop?

[Sagacious]

when a machine run's out of schematics, does it become jammed, or stop? meaning if someone loads more schematics in, will the machine resume with the original persons talents which started the machine, or does it need to be restarted at the time of loading?

in addition, currently if no schematic is loaded, you cannot select a recipe. so does it lose the recipe once it runs out of copies and must also be reselected after loading schematics?

[Yoarii]

3 minutes ago, Heartbeat1 said:

You understood it correctly, the question is how accurate are these shown numbers?

If they are correct then it will take weeks to make enough cells just to warp the material needed just to make the cells in the first place. Someone please tell me there's more to this.

 

NQ - please keep in mind that we don't need more AFK-gaming. If your intention is to force people to slow-boat then you're shooting yourself in the foot with this one.

[blundertwink]

Ah, joy. More gameplay that involves waiting on timers. 

 

Auto-miners: wait for timers. 

Schematics: wait for timers. 

Talents: wait for timers.

 

So...mining, industry, and skills development is literally as engaging as watching a clock.

 

Casio must be feeling the heat of competition!

 

Again, no information about the wipe nor any acknowledgment of the concerns players have shared about how this will likely make industry more monotonous, grindy, and boring...

 

All the concerns players have shared will yet again be ignored, and yet again NQ will push out an update that will (yet again) be wildly unpopular, leading to more refactors down the road (yet again). 

[J-Rod]

If I heard correctly there are going to be schematics for the pures. I do not think this is a good idea. 

I think the schematics should only be for finished products.

[Atmosph3rik]

They can't possibly expect people to constantly create and restock these expendable schematics for things like Warp Cells, Fuel, or Pures.  That's a horrible idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CptLoRes]

And according to the video this is a test with minimal schematics requirements, but don't worry "we can quickly add more schematics later on".

[VandelayIndustries]

56 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

Ah, joy. More gameplay that involves waiting on timers. 

 

Auto-miners: wait for timers. 

Schematics: wait for timers. 

Talents: wait for timers.

 

So...mining, industry, and skills development is literally as engaging as watching a clock.

 

Casio must be feeling the heat of competition!

 

Again, no information about the wipe nor any acknowledgment of the concerns players have shared about how this will likely make industry more monotonous, grindy, and boring...

 

All the concerns players have shared will yet again be ignored, and yet again NQ will push out an update that will (yet again) be wildly unpopular, leading to more refactors down the road (yet again). 

 

Its [filtered]ing crazy man.  Everything is AFK timers.  I know SC has its own problems but at least it calls itself alpha, and have you seen the mining in SC? For starters its in the pvp zone.  Second its active. Actively searching for it, and actively breaking rocks then mining the good part.  Then to top it off the high tier ore quantanium has a 15min timer in your cargo until it literally explodes your ship because its a volatile material so you have to race against time to get it to a safe refinery.  Actual engaging gameplay that has some risk with high rewards.  What a concept right?

Edited July 15, 2022 by VandelayIndustries

[FatRillos]

With all the talk about how we will react to it one would think they might actually change some of this crap. But, knowing NQ for what they are this is coming Tuesday and we can all get bent. Because it's their game and we just pay for the right to be told we're wrong and don't see the game dying around us every day from garbage development.

 

They're trying to balance an economy when the elements and gameplay loops aren't even established.  

 

They can't get away with telling us we didn't say anything either. The whole post they tried to bury when they opened this one says we were loud and clear. but we will be ignored yet again.

[KinG_BigJerk]

if you are trying to close the server down, just turn it off and never turn it back on , be done with it already. 

[PlumYeti]

I just cant anymore. This is possibly the worst idea I have heard of in a game. 

The numbers from the video show 10 Warp cells in 3 hours. Per slot.. so max a single player can do is 400 Warp cells in a day. Not including Pures if we need them. 

This will add 2Million Quanta to a trip from Alioth to Thades and back for my Medium hauler carrying my ore.  

I don't know who come up with these numbers, thought it was a good idea to implement them with NO testing, because we need to push to release as fast as possible. 

Thanks NQ for making it a easy choice for me to cancel my alt accounts and move on to a new game. I had fun but time to go vote with my walet.

[Knight-Sevy]

Very good episode. A lot of concrete answer on a subject more than interesting.

Personally, I would not have been convinced of the usefulness of WIPE until there was this kind of modification.

You have my support on these changes.

[Msoul]

22 minutes ago, VandelayIndustries said:

why the hell do you care? are you new?  You know they are wiping everything to go to release right? 

Honestly I am not an industry player so this change does not really affect me directly. I only ask because many others in Discord have expressed concern over it. Remember some crafting operations are time consuming and even if a wipe was guaranteed (which as of writing it is not) industry players would still appreciate a heads-up on this so they plan their builds/blueprints/purchases/etc.

[Serula]

Im not sure I like the idea of consumable schematics. It feels wrong and annoying. And I don't understand the reasoning behind the choice.

 

Suggestion

Use the new schematic system. But instead of consuming schematics for every element production, use a schematic to "fix" an industry to produce that element. The schematic is consumed by this action but the industry can produce this element as long as it's not picked up. Another schematic can be applied to the industry overriding the previews one. Essentially fixing the industry to produce the new element. This kinda works the same in reality when you want to change a factory to produce something else it costs money. That way you don't constantly have to refill the schematics but they are still consumed. It feels really odd, unrealistic, not immersive and possibly annoying otherwise.

 

edit: you can even include all the parts and other items that way.

[blundertwink]

18 minutes ago, Msoul said:

Honestly I am not an industry player so this change does not really affect me directly. I only ask because many others in Discord have expressed concern over it. Remember some crafting operations are time consuming and even if a wipe was guaranteed (which as of writing it is not) industry players would still appreciate a heads-up on this so they plan their builds/blueprints/purchases/etc.

 

As usual, a polite response to a rude statement.

 

I don't know that we agree about the state of DU or its development team, but @Msoul is always respectful...and it isn't hard to see they've been around since this forum started. No reason to be rude. 🤷‍♂️

[J-Rod]

This new schematic system is just Taxes with extra steps.

 

Now I will pay a fee for every single item I make in the factory. Sounds like taxes

Why not just auto deduct some of my money every time I finish crafting an item instead.

Copying schematics for money and waiting for them to copy is not anyone's idea of fun or engaging gameplay

 

The new schematics seem like an extremely tedious way of taxing us for industry.

NOBODY WANTS MORE TEDIOUS GAMEPLAY

 

 

[Novean-32184]

Here copmes 0.23 part two .. and the proof that NQ simply will not bother to learn from past mistakes.

 

As expected, NQ is totally ignoring the feedback they already have and will just shove this change down everyone's throat untested and shortly before/at release.

 

What could possibly go wrong /s

 

Putting aside that the "refunding" answer is bogus for two reasons:

• A wipe will happen, removing schematics in game anyway.
• Just in case no wipe occurs this pretty much says that those who benefitted from the massive exploit where all schematics were available at a 99% discount for some time will benefit massively as NQ never removed those schematics for the game at the time, so if they were not sold or RMT'd already players will not get the full value back in quanta.

 

I agree that the indications of both duration for copying and cost are such that you can't produce enough in a timely fashion and/or market prices will go through the roof as this will force prices to go up.

 

And how does NQ see copied blueprints with a vaariation of runs being sold on markets? that just makes no sense.

 

NQ has every intention to just push this and test this on live servers either at or post release, which is just a terrible, terrible idea. The fact that NQ seems to think they can just keep going in their distorted reality of "it's fine to keep this going, release is just a label". Is appears the attitude and considerations that caused JC to drive the game nearly off a cliff is still very much alive at NQ. You simply CAN'T expect to be able to test potentially damaging changes like this in s LIVE SERVICE port release.

 

Oh and the UI they "created" for this is just.. terrible..

 

This is just an overall bad idea, how can anyone at NQ really think this is a good plan and why is there no one at NQ with any sense of "but wait a moment."

Deeply, deeply concerning...

[Gillwin]

Wow, that video really demonstrates how over sized those chairs are.  They look like children sitting in those Giant chairs.

[Atmosph3rik]

@NQ this is what you should do.  This sounds perfect.

 

2 hours ago, Serula said:

Im not sure I like the idea of consumable schematics. It feels wrong and annoying. And I don't understand the reasoning behind the choice.

 

Suggestion

Use the new schematic system. But instead of consuming schematics for every element production, use a schematic to "fix" an industry to produce that element. The schematic is consumed by this action but the industry can produce this element as long as it's not picked up. Another schematic can be applied to the industry overriding the previews one. Essentially fixing the industry to produce the new element. This kinda works the same in reality when you want to change a factory to produce something else it costs money. That way you don't constantly have to refill the schematics but they are still consumed. It feels really odd, unrealistic, not immersive and possibly annoying otherwise.

 

edit: you can even include all the parts and other items that way.

  

[Centcom]

after listening to the last podcast, i think this is no longer an open sandbox. I also think that a few things are happening here.

1. Someone is trying to force their version of an economy down our throats. which never works (because they are not encomiast) and is not very open sand box.

2. The more likely reason is that they are forcing a need for more alts (income proposes).  

 

in any case, once this is implemented and NQ figures out, they broke the game again and people that do mass industry leave and don't come back just like before, it will be a bit too late for them to figure out that they only make the game they don't run it or pay for it.

 

I am the DeFacto leader of Shadow Templar and after this is implemented, we will no longer provide tokened Caterpillar elevators or ships to the general public. This is due to the fact that this change will not allow us to maintain the ability to produce the parts necessary to maintain token sales. 

 

Just FYI whatever nut said players don't make money outside the market clearly doesn't know what's going on in the game they are attempting to develop. In Shadow Templar's case we have never sold parts as a means of income, yet we are fairly wealthy and self-sufficient.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Centcom

[Bachiir]

5 hours ago, Yoarii said:

If they are correct then it will take weeks to make enough cells just to warp the material needed just to make the cells in the first place. Someone please tell me there's more to this.

 

NQ - please keep in mind that we don't need more AFK-gaming. If your intention is to force people to slow-boat then you're shooting yourself in the foot with this one.

Since asteroid in pvp space got abandonned, they changed the speed on ships missions were abandonned, i guess its there new attempt in pushing pvp 

[kulkija]

@NQ Do not implement this change.