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DEMETER PTS PREVIEW - Discussion Thread


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1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

This is just NQ standard procedure.

 

The only time they listen is when players start actually leaving,

Then this is fixed in short. with these fun taxes and people losing their stuff most people who were once told they would never loose their stuff after its build unless warfare happened will probably leave, or just camp at the sanctuary for ever. in both cases, gameplay dies.  Fun to see that those who exploided for billions will again get the better in this next downgrade

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Without a Terratory Scanner, picking a terratory to mine will be an expensive gamble for players. But TS are kind of advance item, which will be out of reach of new players until they have progressed far enough to not only buy one, but to have a ship capable of transporting it. I don't think that surface mining will be satisfying for that long.

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2 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Then this is fixed in short. with these fun taxes and people losing their stuff most people who were once told they would never loose their stuff after its build unless warfare happened will probably leave, or just camp at the sanctuary for ever. in both cases, gameplay dies.  Fun to see that those who exploided for billions will again get the better in this next downgrade

 

What is loot without any risk? Its fake content.

Maybe NQ thinks they can gain few players by promising cheap loot paradise.

 

This Territory TAX - change of rules after persistent world launch is extremely bad Game Design.

 

- Call To Action – Say NO to territory taxes -

 

 

 

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2 Thoughts/Questions:

 

1) Sorry if I missed it but is there anywhere else you can see the number of mining charges you have available apart from when you click on a Mining Unit?

2) Since NQ are wanting to reduce unnecessary data transfer and are doing a terrain reset. I have to wonder if removing surface minerals from all Planets and ONLY leaving them on moons has been considered? Just an opinion but may have some merit/support but they are improving the looks of biomes but I personally find the surface minerals to be a bit incongruous and think the game would look/run better if those surface rocks were reserved for moons only.

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Would like to say that I have serious concerns about ore distribution when the terrain is reset. 

As one example. I checked over 100 scans from SInnen and none of them showed any Acanthite.

In the current game with underground mining neighbouring tiles may have lowish levels of acanthite but still worth mining and 3 adjoining tiles might yield 50-60kl. While this isn't a huge amount is a decent drop to top up a factory.

 

If you need Acanthite currently while it's not easy to find mega nodes there are at least trace amounts in a reasonable number of tiles. The new system seems to be more binary and something is either there or it isn't and the number of tiles with the isn't seems to be far greater and the concept of 'trace amounts' has been thrown away because now with not only need to find a tile with a particular resource, but it has to be there is sufficient quantity to warrant the territory tax, cost of miner, and mining charge to extract.

With seeing how the distribution 'seems' to have emerged I think it needs to be stressed that @NQ you will get one shot at this and it NEEDS to be right otherwise creating even more of a scarcity will have serious ramifications for the players and the economy.

 

My fears for the future of this game are reinforced by the fact that the PTS has gone live for the 2nd time WITH the same rates/values etc as previously used and nothing has been tuned. The only real difference is that you turned off the air brake collision detection that you were testing.  That 'implies' to me that you intend to take the current PTS iteration and apply it to Live with little to no changes.

 

I would also like to add that while I get frustrated with the current mining some times and do other things instead I am at the same time going to really miss it! For all it's faults and frustrations there is nothing quite as satisfying as getting to the bottom of a mega-node you've just cleared out and looking up at a massive cavern that you've created. Sorry, but asteroid mining really pales in comparison to that.

mining.png

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Airbrake Compromise:

As a suggestion in light of the Airbrake Clearance test which has been delayed for now. Since you guys have an 'appearance' setting for items how about enabling an INVISIBLE MODE? That way items can show as an outline for ship builders and show for item repair but the rest of the time they are not seen. This would allow ship designers to have the required number of items/clearance to satisfy the requirements to get the ship to fly as well as being ascetically pleasing.

Also, I think it would help out if you stepped up to the plate with making larger Atmo Engines (and different types of engines) etc and this would go a long way for designers not having to make ships with huge walls of engines and their associated tanks.

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14 hours ago, Celestis said:

Do we know how long we have to pack up our buildings before they get buried with the Demeter release?

 

Log into PTS, check out your constructs. 

 

If buried, submit a ticket to have them dug out. Do it now.

 

Profit.

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8 hours ago, Tional said:

 

Log into PTS, check out your constructs. 

 

If buried, submit a ticket to have them dug out. Do it now.

 

Profit.

I have logged into PTS and I have seen how much earth there is in my buildings and I have decided not to lodge tickets to have them dug out but instead to dismantle them ready to build again from scratch with the knowledge I gained the first time around.

 

Therefore I asked how much time I have to do this for all of my constructs before Demeter hits and buries the ones I haven't done yet.

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I've been super excited about this new Update, and really ready to toss out the manual mining picks and shovels...

I am highly concerned however, after seeing some of the specific numbers and contemplating the consequences...

 

I'm glad taxes will clear up some of the unused tiles for more serious expansion.. but the taxes have to be lower!

 

Without constant upkeep, even dedicated players will find themselves homeless on the tiles they worked so hard to acquire.

 

The main reason I was excited for this update was to hopefully see a larger surplus of ore for the community to process, build and blow up... you know.. the fun parts of the game. For this, I think the rate of extraction needs to be higher!

 

Even tiles with low amounts of ore should be able to pay for themselves when furnished with mining units.. at the current rates, it is unclear if we'll be treading water, barely staying afloat, even with mining units that we've somehow pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps to afford.
 

I love the performance improvements that are already apparent from not making my graphics card process every single mining expedition every player has embarked on around my base, and really appreciate not having to spend my precious free time mucking about like a slave in the mine pits.. so bravo on making the bold move to leave manual mining to asteroids.

Everything else I've seen in this update on the PTS looks and feels great, but my main concern is the arbitrary scarcity of resources NQ is maintaining via low productivity of mining units and high taxes. To really build cool stuff, and have enough resources to risk PVP encounters, we, as a player base in general, need a lot more resources pouring out of the system to really have a good time, and show the rest of the gaming world how cool DU can actually be.

Do you really want to keep players running back and forth between mining units in perpetual tax holes to maintain scarcity, or do you want grandiose and beautiful constructs, enough quanta and ore to build, buy and showcase them, and actual space wars? What do you think is going to make for good twitch streams and actually draw in a sizeable player base? We need plentiful resources to actually make this game fun and exciting!

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37 minutes ago, WylieFox said:

Do you really want to keep players running back and forth between mining units in perpetual tax holes to maintain scarcity, or do you want grandiose and beautiful constructs, enough quanta and ore to build, buy and showcase them, and actual space wars? What do you think is going to make for good twitch streams and actually draw in a sizeable player base? We need plentiful resources to actually make this game fun and exciting!

 

Its actualy most problematic conflict of DU disign.

 

There is still very hardcrore part of players, who play A LOT (some 24/7 basicly), have sometimes up to several dozen alts, also made fortunes on early NQ mistakes or outright exploiting (exploit-aquired capitals still bulk of some big pockets). They filthy rich, have everything and pretty much invulnerable to any balancing, while obviously gladly rape game overall and economy especialy, if allowed (NQ kinda trying meekly limit them, but mosly failing). 

 

And there is more casual, with less free time or competitive mood crowd, who want to fool around, build etc, without running some economic empires. They not rich and, in contrary, vulnerable to all sorts of limits, taxes and assorted NQ shennegians (0.23 as best example how deadly "innovations" can be for this strata of players). They, as real life poor, usualy on recieving end.

 

NQ kinda in impasse to "balance" these two categories of players.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Celestis said:

I have logged into PTS and I have seen how much earth there is in my buildings and I have decided not to lodge tickets to have them dug out but instead to dismantle them ready to build again from scratch with the knowledge I gained the first time around.

 

Therefore I asked how much time I have to do this for all of my constructs before Demeter hits and buries the ones I haven't done yet.

 

Do it now. I thought I was pretty clear. They haven't told us when Demeter is releasing, so ... file tickets, or dig them out now.

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I am interested to know how will "tax debt" behave.

For example, I have a few tiles that I might want to discard by letting them lapse.

What happens with the tax debt ? Will I still have to pay the debt that accumulated or will it go away together with my tile?

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The trajectory so far again emphasizes NQ's general culture of hubris and an overwhelming lack of humility. 

 

Here (yet again) we have a lot of players telling them why this isn't going to work well...that the idea is right, but the implementation is very wrong. 

 

IMO, this will go live pretty close to "as-is" because NQ doesn't believe players have any useful feedback. The last PTS update underscores that idea -- very few substantial tweaks around the balance of new features. 

 

We've seen this path before with 0.23.

 

Back then, they released a statement defending their changes and talking about how players just don't understand how to play their game. How their opinions were simply wrong. 

 

NQ struggles with tech. They struggle with customer service. They certainly struggle with design...but they also struggle with humility and being open-minded enough to see the flaws in their bizarre "play it by ear" design style. 

 

They promised that they would improve around communication, but they didn't put any real effort into it. They just don't believe feedback is important.

 

A lot of pride for a game that's spent over 7 years in the alpha stage...and still struggles with really fundamental issues that make the game look like it is still early in development.

 

The new CEO needs to make some real changes. Frankly, they need to fire some people with too much hubris and not enough talent and shift more resources to design and development -- whatever development path they are on, it hasn't been working for a long time. 

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19 hours ago, Tional said:

 

Do it now. I thought I was pretty clear. They haven't told us when Demeter is releasing, so ... file tickets, or dig them out now.

I do not have a magic wand that can make time stand still so I am dismantling my bases and moving elements to higher levels in readiness but with a base on every planet and moon, I have to fly out to them all, take the time to dismantle them or adjust them, and fly back with stuff.... and flying takes time.

 

So when you say "Do it now" that's a joke!

 

I have already said that I have already checked out all of my bases on the PTS and decided what I wish to do with each one.

 

It takes time to do what I wish to do with each base and so I asked how much time do I have before Demeter is unleashed.

 

I hope we have until at least Friday because it will take me at least that long, preferably, I hope we have another weekend as well.

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On 11/5/2021 at 1:00 PM, Briggenti said:

Why are tile taxes still set to $1 million per week? Was there not enough angry feedback on this to warrant a change? Is it still "just a number and will change before release"? Seeing it twice makes me worry it will be the final number.

Still not get it ?   They don't care what the player base wants.  NQ is still not finished with the punish the player initiative.    If NQ can make everyone leave they wont have to wipe.  just delete all your stuff because taxes. 

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23 hours ago, Tional said:

 

Do it now. I thought I was pretty clear. They haven't told us when Demeter is releasing, so ... file tickets, or dig them out now.

I don’t understand this. We can submit tickets before release for NQ to dig out our constructs?

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At the moment, I would generally wait and see what new information will come from NQ this week. They have now received a lot of feedback from us players, as well as being able to collect two weekends of data from the PTS..... so why continue to stress so much when all we can do is wait and see. Some people will quickly dismantle a few Maganodes, others will watch a series or get some fresh air.

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10 hours ago, Celestis said:

 

It takes time to do what I wish to do with each base and so I asked how much time do I have before Demeter is unleashed.

 

I hope we have until at least Friday because it will take me at least that long, preferably, I hope we have another weekend as well.

Another option is to contact a GM in the help channel to move your cores up out of the ground, it shouldn't be a problem unless you have a large number of cores. A GM elevated my L core factory out of the ground for me.

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7 hours ago, Rahzig said:

Another option is to contact a GM in the help channel to move your cores up out of the ground, it shouldn't be a problem unless you have a large number of cores. A GM elevated my L core factory out of the ground for me.

I know what I want to do with each of my semi-underground buildings, yes I have quite a few, but it takes time to do it and I wish to finish before Demeter hits.

If I knew how long we have I would know whether I need GM help or whether I can finish in time.

 

Just like the "We are about to shutdown for a maintenance" without enough time to get our ships to safety, releasing Demeter without sufficient advance warning will cause problems.

 

Thankfully we have had 2 weekends, I just hope we get a third.

 

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19 hours ago, Celestis said:

I do not have a magic wand that can make time stand still so I am dismantling my bases and moving elements to higher levels in readiness but with a base on every planet and moon, I have to fly out to them all, take the time to dismantle them or adjust them, and fly back with stuff.... and flying takes time.

 

So when you say "Do it now" that's a joke!

 

I have already said that I have already checked out all of my bases on the PTS and decided what I wish to do with each one.

 

It takes time to do what I wish to do with each base and so I asked how much time do I have before Demeter is unleashed.

 

I hope we have until at least Friday because it will take me at least that long, preferably, I hope we have another weekend as well.

 

So you're doing it now, good. You're listening.

 

They aren't. They haven't told us anything useful about a release date. They told us to dig out our stuff, or file tickets to have them dig it out when Demeter comes out.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Doombad said:

I don’t understand this. We can submit tickets before release for NQ to dig out our constructs?

 

Yes. Deckard said exactly that in their video, and it's probably posted around here somewhere. There's a new category for trouble tickets involving Demeter and digging out constructs. You provide the details, and they're forming a queue to dig out all of the constructs once Demeter drops.

 

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But they will only dig a box cutout using the outline of your voxels as the area, using some semi automated tool made for that purpose.

So any type of terraforming where you have carefully shaped the ground as a part of your base will be lost. I.e. something that would be the case for most underground bases I would think.

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