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Does this game still have hope?


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9 hours ago, CoyoteNZ said:

Wish there were still kickstart options by the time I discovered the game ūüė≠

Wish we had the promised game by now. Cant have everything 

 

8 hours ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

 

How come you don't have the "Ruby Founder" Forum Title?
Thought it appears automatically.

I disabled that long ago in the community page while it still worked

 

4 hours ago, Dhara said:

The rest of them will be go mine X and deliver it to me.  The mission system won't keep people from having to mine.  It will be a lot of big guys trying to convince the small guys that mining for them at a loss is in the way to go.

Bounties might be nice when ava comes, until the average player realizes that he will spend more in ship parts, ammo, fuel and time than the bounty is worth. 

Until they fix the grind of mining and the costs of basic industry, I think this game has about had it.

Yup exactly.

 

And bounties with ava still are at least 2 years away...... you know, after they release du in 8 months with all promised mechanics. But thats no problem because "there are no red flags"

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10 hours ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

 

How come you don't have the "Ruby Founder" Forum Title?
Thought it appears automatically.

Have you tried deactivating it? It doesn't work on the new page, because there's no option for it. Even setting the flag on the old page had no effect.

It is activated by default. I had deactivated it a long time ago on the old page and was only able to reactivate it thanks to Naerais.

 

9 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I'm pretty sure he knew that, too, but was just being intentionally obtuse to suit the narrative.

Even though I'm a na√Įve person from time to time, believing that all people are good, there are certainly individuals who look for the fly in the ointment to have that one moment of success where they say to themselves, "He said something wrong, I won, his argument is wrong."

 

But I don't want to accuse anyone of anything here. I'll leave it in the room.

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On 4/1/2021 at 10:20 PM, aliensalmon said:

I personally enjoyed my time in Dual Universe so far (although I'm currently taking a break) but I'm worried about the size of the playerbase - after all, the community is what makes an MMO! It doesn't seem like people have much faith in the game in the game anymore. I was wondering if there is still hope for this game to survive and thrive. I personally hope it stays for a long time because I like the concept behind the game. If you think this game will die, what went wrong and hope could the devs prevented or be able to fix it?

I don't think the game will die.  It'll have it's ups and downs, the salty people will leave and the game will eventually make a comeback.  Tons of games have multiple falling outs, I see no difference here (For example:  Star Citizen, No Man Sky, Fallout, Cyberpunk).  I see the same arguments on this forum and discord as last year but different usernames.  It's just a matter of time until it gets better though and some people don't want to wait.

 

In the short term:  No this game has no hope lol

In the long term:  Yes, strap yourself in for a long bumpy ride!

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2 hours ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

In the short term:  No this game has no hope lol

In the long term:  Yes, strap yourself in for a long bumpy ride!

NQ doesn't appear to have the finances to survive a long bumpy ride.. Or should I say an even longer bumpy ride. Since it has been a pretty bumpy ride for years already. NQ's original estimate for was release was Dec 2018. And I quote straight from the campain.

Quote

Our 25 people team is experienced and has worked and shipped several titles already before, and therefore we fully measure how challenging a project like Dual Universe is.

Sigh..

 

And as Lethys mentioned, there are many red flags in this project. And they have been clearly visible for a long time now. In fact that's what started a big divide in the pre-alpha forums. When some of us started commenting on the flags appearing, while others wanted to continue the cheerleader squad. But only one side was constantly given new ammunition by NQ to continue our arguments, while the other side slowly went silent..

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I like the game but tbh losing hope.

 

It will most likely be sold to game milking company like gamigo that will introduce every possible f2p monetisation possible to bring some revenue short term.

They will promise fresh starts on new servers claiming "now we do ot right". cheap "power ups" like double skill training to "catchup" etc with 0 new additions to the game.

Once everyone who still plays is fed with this the game will just die.

 

Even that scenario is not certain due to high backend requirements to run the thing. (I know situations where traffic requirements are bizzare)

 

NQ obviously running out of money and no one is gonna pay for their current "product" as it doesn't even work.

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There is always hope but right now hope is really all we have.

 

Outside of a limited group of former Landmark players who will just be happy to play around with Voxels, make things that look great but serve little actual purpose and are all located in safezones where there is no risk, there is really very little to do. Landmark died because it was never really intended to be a stand alone game, it was supposed to be the way for Everquest Next to get new assets in the game (created by players) but grew into a bit of a cult-ish  project by itself. As with Landmark, it is unlikely that the creative types will be able to pay the bills that keeps the servers and NQ alive so unless NQ starts shaping DU into an actual game .. Yeah, hope is all we have.

 

For me, I am person who enjoys to "do non PVP things in a PVP sandbox" and without the "risk" of PVP the sandbox is kind of shallow and boring. And as far as PVP goes in NQ.. Yeah, hope is all we have ..

 

What attracts me to a game like DU is the way in which different mechanics and game features intermix and depend on each other, like how in EVE industry depends on what comes out of PVE content either through PVE players or the PVP players who find their content there.. It's quite an intricate web of functions and features that feed into others and eventually into the game's economy.. Yeah, hope is all we have..

 

 

Less than 9 months to go for NQ to deliver a complete, bug-fixed, optimized and stable game, with a "todo" list which in itself would take your average game dev a year or two to work through, as a "release" .. Yeah, hope is all we have..

 

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There's no harm in hoping, 

but given the circumstances  it would have taken a miracle and probably another 20 mil  to get it beyond the current prototype state.

 

We'll be wiser in few weeks for sure.

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On 4/2/2021 at 1:37 PM, ShippyLongstalking said:

yep, i spent 3 years in game dev and well over a decade in software engineering.

Thank you for the well thought response, and I will conceded to some of your points.  I am certainly not trying to be a white knight here, but there is just so much speculation with player bases in games, often without an ounce of understanding of how game development works and without any knowledge of the inside workings of the dev studio, that it bugs me.  Even when employees put out public comments about what is happening "behind the scenes" I always take those comments with a grain of salt because it is only part of the real picture.  So speculation is just that, but I guess your post was presenting speculation in a way that came across as factual statements.  So for me it was more of the tone.

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On 4/2/2021 at 1:11 PM, SirJohn85 said:

JC, the ceo, the leadership as itself, has not published a game.

I guess this is a matter of semantics now, but yes he has not previously published a game before this one that I know of, but that does not automatically mean he has zero experience.  Plus he has been working many years on this game, so technically that is many years of experience on a big game.  But I know I am being semantical at this point so I won't push it.

Again speculation is fine, I just don't appreciate when people pretend or present that they know what is going on better than the development studio.

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On 4/2/2021 at 4:53 PM, Lethys said:

And please tell me where that Statement I made was "bashing the game" or where in that statement I am being an ass or counterproductive 

 

"need a working server tech which doesn't shit itself when..."

That's kind of exaggerated and not productive.

 

" If that works then change studio and let others with knowledge and experience get game mechanics right."

This is a bash that the game is not good and they should hire others with knowledge which is just such a great approach.

 

"Oh and hire a god damn UI dev"
You feel the need to use GD there?  You don't think that is assy.

The post is counterproductive because a new player that is reading you post will get the impression the game is bad, the devs are bad, and the community is negative, and they will likely leave.  But I assumed something there. I assumed you want the game to succeed since you have been here since the beginning and are so active. So if you want the game to grow and succeed, then why aren't your posts more productive, positive, or encouraging for new players of the community?  You seem to have a lot of knowledge of the game and you should, but your history of posts show that you really are a terrible ambassador for this game.

You asked me to respond and I appreciate it, but I don't expect you to really get where I am coming from because you had to ask me to explain that to you in the first place.

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10 minutes ago, Dr Rhubarb said:

That's kind of exaggerated and not productive

Hows that exaggerated when ppl post about lags in pvp with some constructs? And they literally need to "download" the damage? Or when I load my surroundings for 20min? 

 

13 minutes ago, Dr Rhubarb said:

This is a bash that the game is not good and they should hire others with knowledge which is just such a great approach.

Because it isn't. And NQ clearly have little experience with MMOs and how ppl use the systems and mechanics in place hence why others with more xp would certainly do better

 

15 minutes ago, Dr Rhubarb said:

You feel the need to use GD there?  You don't think that is assy.

Yup, I god damn feel that 

 

15 minutes ago, Dr Rhubarb said:

The post is counterproductive because a new player that is reading you post will get the impression the game is bad, the devs are bad, and the community is negative, and they will likely leave.  But I assumed something there. I assumed you want the game to succeed since you have been here since the beginning and are so active. So if you want the game to grow and succeed, then why aren't your posts more productive, positive, or encouraging for new players of the community?  You seem to have a lot of knowledge of the game and you should, but your history of posts show that you really are a terrible ambassador for this game.

Not the guy for positivity, never was. Thats something for others, not me. Never wanted to be an ambassador of du nor is it my goal to get anyone playing the game. I just tell ppl how it is to play, how performance is and how mechanics are. And all of that was pretty bad the last 2 years and nothing really improved - still loading stuff for minutes, still lags, still very bad UI with basic functionality missing. So yeah, newbros deserve to know that too, if they leave because of that and can't handle a random guy on some forum then it's maybe best they don't play a mmo

 

24 minutes ago, Dr Rhubarb said:

You asked me to respond and I appreciate it, but I don't expect you to really get where I am coming from because you had to ask me to explain that to you in the first place.

Can see it but don't agree on anything you said. Ymmv 

 

Also, maybe quote ppl next time xD didn't see my first post and meant my second one with my statement, but hey. Still disagree ;)

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"Plus he has been working many years on this game, so technically that is many years of experience on a big game. "

 

Working on a game is not the same as completing/shipping one.  The people who have started something and those that have completed said thing are in very different categories.  

 

Also, negativity in this forum is the least of this games worries.  And really, I think they need a wakeup call which will certainly not be a fountain of positivity.  There are many things they have either done wrong, or will otherwise bite them in the ass at launch.  It is almost like they have never played an MMO before.  

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Game was kind of a success.  Players generally got their monies worth if they were a subscriber.  They probably won’t have a continued reason to resubscribe, even if they’re going to get bonus rounds watching the game crash like Worlds Adrift.  (Game does not seem economical IMO, it literally sits there in empty areas using 5mbs for hours at a time.  That’s a big cost to recoup, and massively devalues to resale price of the tech).

 

I don’t think the publisher side of the business is all that great as well.  Schematics are the biggest nerf I have ever seen in MMO history, and that update was released weeks before all the 6 month subs were due to repay.  (Schematics literally affected 100% of the player base, increases grind by at least a magnitude to do what players were previously doing, completely destroyed play loops to the point where what players were doing everyday changed to “what I used to do", and releasing just before resubs were due was perfect timing to let players show off their discontent with cancellations).

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You must realize that NQ sank more than 20 million into the project. How in the world will this cost be recuperated? This is debt... just financial, not even talking about technical debt.
 

 NQ didn't even make 60K in 2020, meanwhile Eve made $28 million for the first half of 2020.... something is really really wrong here. Technically DU is still an alpha prototype with only the voxel system working reasonably well, even that is still far from feature complete.... so a comparison with Eve isn't very justifiable, but I still make it for the sake of comparison of the analogue from which DU is taking a lot of mechanics.

 

More than 20 million gone and idk, 50 players playing this single shard mmo at any given time?

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4 hours ago, IvanGrozniy said:

You must realize that NQ sank more than 20 million into the project. How in the world will this cost be recuperated? This is debt... just financial, not even talking about technical debt.
 

 NQ didn't even make 60K in 2020, meanwhile Eve made $28 million for the first half of 2020.... something is really really wrong here. Technically DU is still an alpha prototype with only the voxel system working reasonably well, even that is still far from feature complete.... so a comparison with Eve isn't very justifiable, but I still make it for the sake of comparison of the analogue from which DU is taking a lot of mechanics.

 

More than 20 million gone and idk, 50 players playing this single shard mmo at any given time?

 

Thats just it.  EvE is consider the most niche game.  And DU cant even get like 10% of eve's numbers.  Where are all these players and money going to come from? Just because they might add a hauling mission, and maybe powergrid to pvp ships?  This game is as good as dead, because it wont be able to make any money.  And unlike other games that were in alpha for years with terrible bugs (DayZ) NQ has to pay for servers.  Where in DayZ opening up modding and owning your own servers passes that all on to the players.  And today DayZ is actually in a decent playable state.   And its a one time purchase.  DU is dead in the water because they have no way to make enough money to profit.  Its all money sink.  Paying for developers. CM's, the rent of their offices.  Then paying for their servers.   I don't see how they will make any profit.

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2 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

  I don't see how they will make any profit.

 

If they drasticly impove quality of product, then sustainable income kinda... squeezable from relativly small, but super dedicated population. Not pretty, but somewhat realistic way, ol good pay 4 win and heavy whale hunt.

 

1) Raise of sub cost (like 12$).

2) Agressive alt milking (so serious number of people paying x3-x4 and more).

3) Most importantly, not only cosmetics shop, all sort of boosters and other expensive desired crap.

4) Good sales of DACs to the pile.

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

 

If they drasticly impove quality of product, then sustainable income kinda... squeezable from relativly small, but super dedicated population. Not pretty, but somewhat realistic way, ol good pay 4 win and heavy whale hunt.

 

1) Raise of sub cost (like 12$).

2) Agressive alt milking (so serious number of people paying x3-x4 and more).

3) Most importantly, not only cosmetics shop, all sort of boosters and other expensive desired crap.

4) Good sales of DACs to the pile.

 

 

 

Easier would be to slash costs to near nothing (starting with community support, text support, new asset designers and new feature programmers.. sound familiar?) keep it on bare minimum life support and milk the current subscribers and new trickle of new subs over long period to bleed out as much cash to recover whatever lost capital they can

 

Remember, du is a recurring subscription.. and i worked in ecommerce when I was young.. a very significant portion of recurring subscription keep collecting for months and years even after the user stops logging and forgets about their account

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Been playing it for a few months now, and these last week have been a nightmare to play. My corp is slowly dying because well... it doesn't evolve much.

 

I'm 46 years old and been on quite a few MMOs for the last 20 years. The closest thing to DU I played? A Tale In The Desert.

 

Basically, I would sum up DU like this:

 

Too much anything.

 

At some point, you have to decide what is your "finished product". I put this between quotes, because well, by definitions, MMOs are never finished, bugs are always here 2/3/4/5 years after launches. That's how it is. Right now I'm not sure NQ does have a definition of what their "finished product" his. It's cool to have a loading page with all the incoming features. But if they wait to have them all to call the game finished, we're good to wait for a few years. Not sure my patience will last that long.

 

Some problems:

- Too many planets on the system. Those IG are less than 10% populated, and I'm being nice. And you're woring on a new system? That's a loss of ressources that would be helpful somewhere else. Shrink that system to 3/4 planets right now and ride with it, that will force interaction between players. Right now you can spend months without seeing somebody else. You don't have an MMO in players do not interacts. Be it friendly or not.

 

- Space PvP guys... Who thought that this PvP would be fun? Ideas are good, but badly implemented. That part should be fun. That's where you need space dogfighting with big ships shooting on everything around. Reworking the way you move in space should be priority N¬į1 here. Stop going straight and shoot 400kms away. Go back to basics, like X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, and add joystick control.

 

- Schematics, idea was not bad, but badly implemented. And too late. Newcomers starts with a huge disadvantage here from vets. A freaking one. Sure you could join an organization or whatever, but well, see point 1.

 

- Since ressources are a finite number on every planet, that's a problem that'll rise at anytime soon. Mining units are supposed to be a solution, except well, they still aren't IG and aren't really viable either. A new system won't help as players will have to go to the next zone and start from scratch again. That should be a problem solved from day 1 too...

 

- Skills, here again, it's too many, way too many skills. I get the point, but crap, it'll take eons before all these are completed. I'll have to try to add everything in the queue and see how long it'll take. A few years probably. Sure you don't want players to be perfect in everything, but if that's what you want, have them choose their way early in the game instead of this. Links back to point 1 as well.

 

- Players needs directions. Even in sandboxes type of game. Mission system should have been a Day 1 feature. It would have been good for organisations building and cohesion.

 

- Can't believe there's a spawn/despawn protocol for ships when players are logging in/out. Result is here for everyone to see. Go to District 6/7 on Ailoth. That's a nightmare. OK. That's cool for players to see what others have done, but I don't want to see ships that where done by guys that don't even play the game anymore. Either despawn them, or allow players to deconstruct them. Let's be ecologist here.

 

- Finally, on the mechanics of the game, lots of stuff is done client wise, not server wise. Idea of having just one server is good. But doing calculation client wise is really bad. How do you prevent hack from the client then? That's a huge problem here. Especially in a PvP game. If you don't have a solution here, you don't have a game, because hacking usually kills the fun out of the game.

 

So well, not everything is beyond hope, but guys need to shrinks their dreams down and go back to the basics of playing and have fun playing.

And fast!

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13 minutes ago, WildBunny said:

- Too many planets on the system. Those IG are less than 10% populated, and I'm being nice. And you're woring on a new system? That's a loss of ressources that would be helpful somewhere else. Shrink that system to 3/4 planets right now and ride with it, that will force interaction between players. Right now you can spend months without seeing somebody else. You don't have an MMO in players do not interacts.

 

The world is empty because NQ nerfed the industry to force player interactions. Fixing it with another big nerf to force player interactions doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

19 minutes ago, WildBunny said:

- Stop going straight and shoot 400kms away. Go back to basics, like X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, and add joystick control.

 

I agree to joystick control. But turning DU into just another shooter with WWII dogfight mechanics would be quite unoriginal. NQ at least tried to implement half-way realistic space combat. The problem is not going straight and shoot 400kms away but JC's lack of sense for fun gameply. It wouldn't get better with someting like X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.

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