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“Marketplace Heist” Response

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1 hour ago, Pizzadude said:

So people that have had their base stolen through an exploit and NOT rdms mixups like ONIXXX just reported above should be happy to have their time wasted? It's a big bug and exposed another problem with the way their market orders work and are tied to a construct. That's terrible planning.. But I'll just leave quietly now and get the marshmallows. Enjoy the smell of burning tires.

They should ban them too.  If but just because they haven't been banned yet, doesn't mean THESE people should get off.  At some point NQ needs to start enforcing rules and handing out BANS.  This is a step in the right direction regardless of their failures before this.  If someone steals using an EXPLOIT in RDMS, and epsecially doesn't report.  Perma ban.  If someone sets a perm or gives someone access, then thats intended gameplay.  I would be very frustrated if I lost my base to an exploit, especially if the people involved didn't get banned and there was evidence.  This is still a good thing.  NQ needs to grow a backbone.  Hopefully more bans will be coming in the future. 

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19 hours ago, Ater Omen said:

While I find the heist inacceptable, I am shocked by the decision of permaban, a temporary ban (even long) would be better imo. Maybe this has been done to send a message to players for future abuses...

 

You know markets are not player structures and this rule does not apply here, common sense should have stopped you from stealing anything.

 

Hey man -> here is the thing - you still ship from other players? No problem. Gms teleport this ship back during heist? Okey, lets steal another. Still no problem. Than lets steal whole bases. Using rdms? No info about bans? No problem. Actually allowing it in rules? No problem. So lets steal base using exploits. Still no problem? Nope, noone was officially ban. Whats next? Well, we can clearly see. Market. Oh, and here finally is a line. <facepalm> Sorry man, but this is straight forward consequence of current NQ politic on exploits and bugs.

And now this, permabanning for rdms mistake by people who did the system in the first place. Sorry man, but after that great string of no real consequences - at least perceivable consequences - for not reporting and than abusing mechanics and exploits?  I'm too salty to see it as anything but straight forward "lets check the limit" yet again - which was encourage by that politics - and now overreaction on the NQ side. 
On side note - i'm as certain as possible without making such report myself that if they would comb they communication channels they would find reports of it going back few days. 

Ps. I doubt it will take more than 16 manhours to sort it out all. I'm so salty that the only difference between that and lose of all the players, that i can see is that NQ actually need to pay for those hours - oh my.... While players rebuilding their ships, bases, etc.? Who cares about their time, its beta after all.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

They should ban them too.  If but just because they haven't been banned yet, doesn't mean THESE people should get off.  At some point NQ needs to start enforcing rules and handing out BANS.  This is a step in the right direction regardless of their failures before this.  If someone steals using an EXPLOIT in RDMS, and epsecially doesn't report.  Perma ban.  If someone sets a perm or gives someone access, then thats intended gameplay.  I would be very frustrated if I lost my base to an exploit, especially if the people involved didn't get banned and there was evidence.  This is still a good thing.  NQ needs to grow a backbone.  Hopefully more bans will be coming in the future. 

You think? I'm too sure that here is how its going to be: exploiters now knows the line and they will have free rain until that line.
I've quit enough of games over exactly that sort of issues, looks like i will have to quit yet another in month or two. Hope i'm mistaken, but track records of "genius game developers making that only one great game" is not positive and NQ is falling exactly the same pitfalls as usual. 

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2 minutes ago, Elrood said:

You think? I'm too sure that here is how its going to be: exploiters now knows the line and they will have free rain until that line.
I've quit enough of games over exactly that sort of issues, looks like i will have to quit yet another in month or two. Hope i'm mistaken, but track records of "genius game developers making that only one great game" is not positive and NQ is falling exactly the same pitfalls as usual. 

Who knows, certainly no one here in these forums knows, regardless of what they say.  But NQ needs to start somewhere, and hopefully this is a wakeup call.  BANS need to happen, as people will always test the line.  The line should be clearly defined....  Find bug? Use and it dont report? Subject to BAN if found out.  Seems like a good place to start.

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5 minutes ago, Eruend the SkyReaper said:

This is the worst case scenario. Where the official response to an issue that has been plaguing the general community for the longest time is "It's not our problem" until the devs get hit by it.

Can you see what kind of precedence you are placing by putting yourselves ABOVE the players this way? SPECIALLY since there was NOTHING in the rules stating that this would be a violation.

The devs are not players, their mistakes are just bugs. There was fair and broad warning before this: 

 

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Except they do not enforce these rules when they do not involve the devs.

edit: Also, just re-read those rules. There is nothing stating that this was an unlawful action in there.

Just saying "leave it to common sense" can be interpreted too broadly to be valid, since as I mentioned, this can be defined in difrent ways depending solely on a person's perspective.

If this was an argument used in any case related to a court of law, it would be immediately dismissed.

Rules and laws only have any meaning when they are properly enforced. Because the only way people will respect them, is if they can trust that they will be maintained.

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Just now, JohnnyTazer said:

Who knows, certainly know one here in these forums knows, regardless of what they say.  But NQ needs to start somewhere, and hopefully this is a wakeup call.  BANS need to happen, as people will always test the line.  The line should be clearly defined....  Find bug? Use and it dont report? Subject to BAN if found out.  Seems like a good place to start.

I agree with your general idea, but I'd be far more open to NQs response if they had also banned all the dupers.

 

All the dupers got was a note asking them to self report on Sept 22 within 48 hours and delete their duped mats. What since then?

 

If the market was looted with RDMS exploit, ok yeah a ban, but this was a misconfiguration by the devs. 

 

A ban for this while inaction on literally everything else sine beta seems heavy handed.

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17 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

They should ban them too.  If but just because they haven't been banned yet, doesn't mean THESE people should get off.  At some point NQ needs to start enforcing rules and handing out BANS.  This is a step in the right direction regardless of their failures before this.  If someone steals using an EXPLOIT in RDMS, and epsecially doesn't report.  Perma ban.  If someone sets a perm or gives someone access, then thats intended gameplay.  I would be very frustrated if I lost my base to an exploit, especially if the people involved didn't get banned and there was evidence.  This is still a good thing.  NQ needs to grow a backbone.  Hopefully more bans will be coming in the future. 

The other people exploited something, not simply walked up and pressed B on their keyboard. The OP tried to report it, albeit through the wrong channels, an attempt was made.  My point was the fact the other guy reported it quite a while back and nothing has been done about it. Yet this is met with a permaban in less than 24 hours. The market deconstruction at best should have been met with a temp ban honestly. It was NQ's screwup and they didn't verify things before they called the job completed. If anything, it exposed another issue of market orders being tied to constructs apparently.

 

Just to be clear, I mostly agree with you that exploits that are taken advantage of need to be addressed with a ban hammer. But going from no previous consequences to a perma-ban over something that NQ screwed up is too extreme. Given the laziness of NQ to not anticipate as well as fully test something before executing is bad practice and shows a grim outlook on this game when the players are the ones that get the short end of the stick.

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@Elrood So what should NQ do? continue to not punish players for current exploits because they did nothing for past cases? I'm sure it's not what you want. Should they make a soft transition for their rules enforcement to not shock players?
We complain when they do nothing, we complain when they act, all of this while we don't even know what happen behind the scenes, what's their powers and what they can really act on. I wish they could act on everything like omnicient gods, but I don't think it's the case. The salt comes from the permaban which, as I said, is too much imo especially in the context you mentionned.

Edited by Ater Omen

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3 minutes ago, Pizzadude said:

The other people exploited something, not simply walked up and pressed B on their keyboard. The OP tried to report it, albeit through the wrong channels, an attempt was made.  My point was the fact the other guy reported it quite a while back and nothing has been done about it. Yet this is met with a permaban in less than 24 hours. The market deconstruction at best should have been met with a temp ban honestly. It was NQ's screwup and they didn't verify things before they called the job completed. If anything, it exposed another issue of market orders being tied to constructs apparently.

 

Just to be clear, I mostly agree with you that exploits that are taken advantage of need to be addressed with a ban hammer. But going from no previous consequences to a perma-ban over something that NQ screwed up is too extreme. Given the laziness of NQ to not anticipate as well as fully test something before executing is bad practice and shows a grim outlook on this game when the players are the ones that get the short end of the stick.

Truth be told i think everyone here would be okey with it if they start right now perma-ban worst exploiters too. But that won't happen, will it? -.- 
 

2 minutes ago, Ater Omen said:

@Elrood So what should NQ do? continue to not punish players for current exploits because they did nothing for past cases? I'm sure it's not what you want. Should they make a soft transition for their rules enforcement to not shock players?
We complain when they do nothing, we complain when they act, all of this while we don't even know what happen behind the scenes, what's their powers and what they can really act on. I wish they could act on everything like omnicient gods, but I don't think it's the case. The salt comes from the permaban which, as I said, is too much imo.

If they start enforcing all the rules that way now, i'm fine with that. Its just i don't believe it will happen. 

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Just now, Ater Omen said:

@Elrood So what should NQ do? continue to not punish players for current exploits because they did nothing for past cases? I'm sure it's not what you want. Should they make a soft transition for their rules enforcement to not shock players?
We complain when they do nothing, we complain when they act, all of this while we don't even know what happen behind the scenes, what's their powers and what they can really act on. I wish they could act on everything like omnicient gods, but I don't think it's the case. The salt comes from the permaban which, as I said, is too much imo.

Throw them in a dungeon in JCs castle for a week and strip them of their loot. Seriously.

 

We'd all have had a good laugh about it and it'd would have been somewhat within the spirit of the game.

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The guys responsible shouldn't get out of this scott free for sure. A temp ban at worst.
Then, clarification to the rules, and a revision to these exploits should be made.

We're past the period where a thief gets the death penalty for stealing from a noble, when he was only met with laughter for stealing from a commoner just prior.

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The fact that they Wrote Pls NO Ban, just shows that they knew that they would be banned. This is a Beta game still in development and part of being in the beta is your testing and reporting bugs. Which you should have reported it and left the building alone. This was just a blatant bad response that you knew would affect many things in the Beta, but you choose to do it anyway. 

You knew you would be banned and you still did it. So you deserver what you knew was going to happen in the first place.

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1 minute ago, Eruend the SkyReaper said:

The thing is, this has been reported

Several times.

INCLUDING BY THEM

It's been met with silence each time.

Several times? I'm aware about one guy claiming to report it around 2 days ago. Someone else did too? 

 

9 minutes ago, Eruend the SkyReaper said:

Player: Some jerk stole my ship by using an exploit!

NQ: qq more pleb. This is part of the game.

Also NQ: Some jerk stole our market by using an exploit!

(PERMA BAN)

No exploit was used as far as i know - only not correctly set rdms? 

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Just now, Eruend the SkyReaper said:

The thing is, this has been reported

Several times.

INCLUDING BY THEM

It's been met with silence each time.

Where did they report it? even so. DONT USE THE EXPLOIT.  If you report it and they fail to act it is what it is, you wont get banned.  BUT JUST BECAUSE NQ DIDN'T FIX IT IN 2 SECONDS DOESN'T MEAN LOLOLOL I GUESS ITS OK.  Use your fucking brain.  

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2 minutes ago, Eruend the SkyReaper said:

So it's ok to perma ban a guy for rules that are basicly left to the imagination of the person interpretating them.

Its pretty simple. You find an exploit, you report it.  You don't keep exploiting it yourself, regardless of how long it takes NQ to fix it.  You and the guys who did it aren't fucking programmers on this game.  So you dont know with any certainty how long it would take to fix even with reported.  If you are too stupid to understand this, then thats on you.  

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Its pretty simple. You find an exploit, you report it.  You don't keep exploiting it yourself, regardless of how long it takes NQ to fix it.  You and the guys who did it aren't fucking programmers on this game.  So you dont know with any certainty how long it would take to fix even with reported.  If you are too stupid to understand this, then thats on you.  

You keep calling it an exploit.

 

Pressing B isn't an exploit.

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We don't need them in the first place if all they want to do is ruin a game I have backed since day 6 of Kick Starter. There is game play, and then there is malicious intent. Which one do you think this is? I think it was malicious intent to do the game harm.  It only matters what NQ things and I and thousand of others full hardily support this ban.

Good day and pls go away.

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1 minute ago, Mordgier said:

You keep calling it an exploit.

 

Pressing B isn't an exploit.

A bug then.  A bug that leads to them exploiting game mechanics that leads them to get ingame items for free.  Is that better?

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