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DEVBLOG: MINING UNITS 101 - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard
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@NQ-Deckard Don't take this personally, because this is a NQ issue, not a Deckard issue. But maybe NQ should just in the future shut the hell up on the forum, Dev Blogs, Discord, Twitch, and YouTube. Because everything that is said is just worth sh!te.

 

I just spend a LOT of the weekend on scanning AFTER it was said that scanner results would be kept.

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firstly is this correct "These territory pools represent mining rates, not a total volume of available ore. For example, if a territory has a pool of 100 l/h of a given ore and each mining unit is capable of extracting 50 l/h, then you need four mining units to maximize your extraction capacity, "

 

the scanning wipe is a  fair decision but i, like others spent time scanning given your previous statements.

I like the depth limit and may be you want to add a limit away from a territory you own or stop transforming if you don't own a territory

So we can prepare properly  i would like to know how much a territory tax is  as i have a lot and would like to know if i can afford them initially.

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Kinda split on removing old scan data seeing as how it was mentioned that folks would be keeping them in the recent Q/A video. Yeah it will be another land rush and all, I just wonder how many people won't be participating this time around.

 

I'm all for it but man, these last minute changes are killing us.

 

Also...

Quote

if a territory has a pool of 100 l/h of a given ore and each mining unit is capable of extracting 50 l/h, then you need four mining units to maximize your extraction capacity, and any additional mining unit beyond four won't give you more yield.

I'm not good at math, but do you mean two mining units? 50+50=100, I'm not sure where 'four' is coming from. Maybe yall are working with 50% efficiency?

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1 minute ago, rubachet said:

Will you seed some mining units, or give out the msall ones (for beginners) for free? Or might be introduce the schematics for the units beforehead, so that we can make some and have some ready when demeter starts?

I'm pretty sure you can craft the T1 ore, small mining unit in your nano. Not sure why they would need to be free; they should be craftable with surface ore.

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2 minutes ago, rubachet said:

Will you seed some mining units, or give out the msall ones (for beginners) for free? Or might be introduce the schematics for the units beforehead, so that we can make some and have some ready when demeter starts?

The small ones can be craftes in the nanopack and are about as complex and expensive as a basic small atmo engine. You can just craft them yourself after picking up 20 rocks.

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I like where they are going with mining, i feel like the optimisation bit is grind for the sake of grind.  Maybe the mining units could be composed of elements and voxel and be player built constructs?  ... it could have added some creativity... then maybe over time those elements could degrade and need replacing......  then maybe the elements could be different tier too.... but then maybe a fast drill head needed a faster CPU to run the calcs, maybe a fast head needs replacing more often... or a slow drill has lower output but more time between changes..... 

 

I feel like with a bit of creativity some of these game systems could be made to be more involving with relatively little work?  its just stats isnt it?

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4 minutes ago, redqueen said:

so are u wiping old scans and creating random new spots or should people just screen shot or write down the old scan locations? plz tell me new random locations and u didnt think about it that way?

nobody knows whats on their hex until Demeter lands

 

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Quote

For example, if a territory has a pool of 100 l/h of a given ore and each mining unit is capable of extracting 50 l/h, then you need four mining units to maximize your extraction capacity, and any additional mining unit beyond four won't give you more yield.



I need 4 units to remove 100 litres if each unit can remove 50 litres?
I assume I only need 4 if the 100l are then pushed up to 100% or 200l by skill? So then 200l divided by 4x50


 

Quote

Each mining unit has a ‘calibration score’ and slowly loses calibration over time if kept unchecked. When the calibration score is below 100%, the mining unit will produce less ore; at 0%, it won’t produce anything at all. To remedy that, it must be calibrated.



Can you please give a time, how many hours, days, weeks a player has before the unit has dropped from 100% to 0%?

 

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What are the expectations for how the low ore volumes will affect the industry? When I think about how many kl of ore I need for one warp cell, how much should that warp cell cost and how should newcomers who don't have billions of quanta in their wallet pay for it? And what is the situation for big factories like Gottchars?

 

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I'm pissed about the scan results being wiped - not because I don't think it's a good idea but because they stated VERY convincingly that they would remain. People went out of their way to complete more scans (me included) and even buying scans from other folks. But NQ taking back what they said at this point leads me to believe you cannot trust them. They WILL give in to the loudest whiners and ultimately change whatever they want. No spine.

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I left the game a while ago but just logged back to tell NQ this.

 

The bottom line currency of every MMO is active time players spend to achieve things. In any MMO, resources/items take time to extract/acquire. In DU, ore used to cost significant active player time (even when extracting meganodes) which in turn made it valuable. 

 

This design removes the time requirement to achieve anything in DU. It gives any player the capability to do one-time time investments in setups to passively acquire virtually infinite resources. It is practically only slightly different than giving players buttons to conjure as much resources as they want

 

If I am not mistaken, one look at the numbers is enough to understand each tile will yield at least 1-2 milion M3 of ore to it's owner per month. A single account can run perhaps 25 or more tiles (on it's own and it's organization's name) until the taxes get too costly. That's 50m m3 for each account. And people get more accounts, let alone the subscription-free alpha accounts until the launch. 50m of ore can be turned into so many ships and elements. And that only costs 7$ (if accounts are paid at all), plus a negligible amount of active time (calibration) and taxes. All that can be equivalent to approximately one hour of one's time. And can be scaled up to hundreds of accounts. That's a ludicrous amount of ore for just one hour of player time. Basically infinite ore. The only check and balance is the total number of tiles. I'm pretty sure that number is way higher than what's needed to support the entire DU economy. Infinite ore availability. That's where the economic meta would end up in 1 year or less (the time it takes people to spool accounts, gain territories, deploy their stuff) with the current design.

 

It all goes downhill from infinite ore. Infinite resources means infinite ships. Infinite ships means PvP loss does not matter. Losses mattering is an enormous premise of any space sandbox MMO.

 

I'm not even starting with why active resource gathering activities are important in MMOs and how there will just be no value in actively mining after the meta settles.

 

This is not how you design a proper space sandbox. This is how you end up with a glorified Minecraft. You could as well design a non-MMO where people construct on their own servers then invite bunch of friends to fight or show off their constructs.

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not a fan of not letting the scans already.
for the ore race let the pvp take care of the balancing.

Finally if it is to go on the path of non-wipe to release it is a good choice to reset it.

And that seems to be the opinion of the majority, so I bow. Good thing if so decided (maybe will listen to us someday for PvP?)

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Not totally adverse to the change and I have over 5k scans.  I could see how it was an advantage and already pulled a lot of the ore out the ground so kinda have had a good amount.  It is a pain but hey I guess thats Beta for you.

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