willolake

Right. The root of the PvP issues in this game is the fact that safe zones were created instead of combat mechanics. If we had been iterating on warfare, for everything, since Alpha, we'd have something really nice. Instead NQ threw in temporary measures that forced there hand with every other mechanic. So we're in a world where there is a magic line that _everyone_ can hide behind. I'd love for the world to be dangerous and for players to need to make safe-spaces, but we need the tools to do that. Static construct mounted automated weaponry would be fun for PvP, but it would be cheap to deploy and hard to defeat (not impossible, just hard). That way the ships are _easier_ than the bases, but again, not impossible. Anything that is impossible versus improbable, sucks. When someone kills you, they should become red to you, you should be able to put a bounty on them, AND a bounty on reporting their location! That makes being an aggressor and surviving a thing of pride, but also give people a chance to hunt them, and their base, down. It's not a sandbox unless you give _everyone_ sand, which means anyone can throw it in anyone else's eyes at any time. Not just sometimes in certain parts of the sandbox.

I've waited and waited and waited for a _reason_ to return. Even when I was playing, the aspiration of territory warfare was always been my reason. I played expecting it to happen. I got to the end of my patience and stopped playing. The mining unit update was the absolute worst change ever; incredibly repetitive and boring. The only thing that will have me, an emerald backer, come back to even try DU again will be territory warfare. Yet, you're asking me to "play now so we can get data". No. I'm sick of the safe zones. The beta was completely botched with the dual launch of the sanctuary moon AND then Alioth being safe too; WHAT EVEN THE EFF! All the planets with their safe zones around them... just so incredibly frustrating. What motivates activity is the chance to build something or acquire things *in the face of adversity*. I'm all for the sanctuary moon and the tile per account (I'd say that's too much even, but different discussion) for creativity to flourish. But the real reason to do anything needs to be once I pop out of the sanctuary moon, I can freaking die, I can lose something, but I can also conquer territory, be a pirate, hunt pirates, protect convoys, hunt asteroids, do missions, but all of that has to be under threat AND present opportunities for ME to be the threat. I know I can try really hard and go find a fight, but that's not what I'm talking about; I want to be in a fight as a by product of a more broad goal, and right now you have to simply find value in acquiring "stuff". An incredible number of people in this community could design a start to territory warfare, and so can you. Just freaking do it. This post isn't about warfare being the goal; it is that the existence of it is what adds to feeling of accomplishment when doing literally anything else. That has been the key failure of this project so far, understanding motivation of the player. It has entirely rested on people's desire to be creative, and that only goes so far in a closed ecosystem where their creations die with the project.

I agree the daily maintenance is sucking the life from me. The basic math I did during PTS told me taxes were going to be tight, but actually having to "pet" these mining units constantly just to pay the IRS is such a boring chore. All of the time doing maintenance takes away from the activities I might actually enjoy! For example I have a 3 tile setup, each with 500l/h hema producing for 5 days, and that only covers 67% of the taxes with hema at 50q (I'm fully spec'd in the new mining talents BTW). Now I have this added time pressure to get ore to the market and sell to get the tax payment in. Of course I expect prices to depress greatly around tax time due to this rush. Honestly, I don't think taxes are the answer. I'm fine with the rapid decay of mining unit production, but it is the pressure of the taxes that make it suck. If you want territory decay, make us go add fuel to TCUs that powers their "ownership field" or some crap (and restore the exponential cost of territory ownership). I don't mind having to touch something to prevent territory decay, but it shouldn't be so often needed that my limited play sessions become all about chores. The mining mini-game itself is not bad. I wish it involved interacting with the actual world and not a goofy 2d space; like deploying probes on the territory and using the scanners or some such, but in its own right it is decent.

While we've yet to see just how painful the taxes are, I must second this sentiment. As a KS backer, I'm incredibly saddened that DU made it into "beta" with zero territory warfare mechanics. I really hope we hear something about this Soon®. I too would much rather be stressing about defending my land from players than the Interstellar Revenue Service.

A small mining unit can be crafted in your nano from surface harvest-able materials. You can run multiple of those to bootstrap your mining operation. You can run around an harvest surface ores from any unclaimed territory. I think basic large mining units will only end up costing no more than $500k quanta; so the daily monies alone will give people the opportunity to bootstrap a larger operation quickly. I think something we're all going to need to adjust to is that "being a land owner" is not a given outside of sanctuary anymore. I honestly hope this makes sanctuary useful. As an early player that saw sanctuary put in at the last minute, I was completely confused why a safe zone was _also_ added. The point was sanctuary was safe, everything else was not. Because of the safe zone, no one had a reason to stay in sanctuary. Now there will be pressures that make sanctuary useful.

Thought I had you there "It's a tarp!" - j/k Not wrong, but there will have to be a level of cooperation and misdeeds to make the universe interesting. Some in-game mechanics to help here are certainly needed; bounties, reputation, etc.

I'd love for you to build voxels on my territory, and I'll pay the taxes. We'd both win. You don't pay taxes, I see pretty buildings that I'd have zero motivation to build myself, because Dual Universe is a sandbox game that has multiple motivations; not just the one you find value in.

Keep in mind that not paying taxes on an HQ tile only disables industry/mining. You won't lose the tile. So if you don't want to log in and pay taxes for many weeks, that's fine, you also won't get the benefit of production; that is the trade-off, but you're not being forced to do the tax dance on HQ tiles.

If you unsubscribe, you should not expect to come back to the game and have anything except the quanta in your pocket. If you do not unsubscribe and just go afk for years, that is what HQ tiles are for. If you own 100 tiles and disappear for any reason, the game should have a forcing function to return most of those assets into the economy; that is what we are getting.

I would like to see some math here as well. I did not get to play PTS enough to feel any meaningful mining production output and determine how much base production effectively goes in the trash. @Gottchar Did have a thread with a lot of good numbers. I really hope they did not calculate based on well-maintained and maxed out mining units, nor should they use the current market price of ore but instead only the bot prices to determine possible income. An average of 400L/h T1 production on a tile, assuming a few poorly calibrated mining units, will produce 9,600L/day and 67.2kl/week. At 23 quanta/L that is 1,545,600 quanta/week. It is doable, but we'll have to see how tedious it feels for the average player to be forced into converting ore into quanta just to pay taxes. What we might see are a lot more player hauling missions to take ore to the market. That could actually be a welcome bump in general activity. I also agree with others that two weeks is not enough time for the world to settle after Demeter drops for taxes to kick in; I'd like to see a month before the first tax bill.

Please make it clear that this cap is for the entire universe, star system, or planet. I believe the intention was universe, and if so I think it is a reasonable number. If it is per planet, GTFO, and per star system, I'd prefer 3.

Yes.

Right. I expect the scan items themselves to be deleted, honestly.

I'm pretty sure you can craft the T1 ore, small mining unit in your nano. Not sure why they would need to be free; they should be craftable with surface ore.

I too wondered if "four" was the correct number here. If so, there seems to be a detail missing.