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Instant warp with 100% safety is bad for DU


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From what I can see in the current state of the game Warp's current functionality is clogging up the entire game. Here are my thoughts:

 

The element degradation feature was added to the game to permanently lose items from pvp. This would make people need to replace items through crafting or buying them off of the markets. This is what the game needed to get the economy rolling. Unfortunately almost no items are subject to this degradation due to the fact that most people are warping with 0% chance of being in a pvp zone unless they choose to be. 

 

Warp in its current form is wildly overpowered. Warp cells are relatively cheap, warp is instant and guarantees your safe arrival at your destination. We went from having to slow boat from planet to planet for 2-6 hours to doing it in 60 seconds with no risk. With almost no reason to slowboat in the game and 100% safe warping from planet to planet there is no reason to pvp (the only way to take items out of the game). This is to me the biggest factor of the stagnation of almost every aspect of the game outside of mining and voxel building.

 

I think this can be fixed purely through balance changes. Here are some suggestions that might help:

 

  • Warp cost increase (to make warp less viable for everyday use)
  • Removal of safe zones around planets in the pvp zone (to introduce window of vulnerabiliy to pvp when warping)
  • Reduce max warp distance to 250 SU (this would work in tandem with other things on this list nerf warp's avoidance of PVP)
  • Reduce warp speed (Something relatively to the actual distance that you are traveling rather than "instant" to bring back some of the travel experience from prewarp days)
  • Warp Interdiction (I like this the least as it takes dev time to create new functionality)

 

I post this not as some game designer wanna be. Just trying to give an objective player perspective. 

 

What are your guys thought? 

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From what I can see in the current state of the game Warp's current functionality is clogging up the entire game. Here are my thoughts:   The element degradation feature was added to the gam

Remove the ability to warp to planets moons.  Only Warp beacons.  Make Space stations have some protection so you dont lose them while sleeping.  Then, you can watch people have wars over them, becaus

Main issue here is population effect.   0.23 (beyond good/bad ecomonical side long run -- another topic) devastated already humble game population by alienating huge chunk of solo/small grou

2 minutes ago, Shredder said:

The solution is really simple. Change the warp exit points to random locations 2 su outside the safe zones.

This is a good solve too. Not sure about making slowboating the safe method. Not even sure how that would work. 

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- building: not stable, voxels still not working correctly for some players 

- PVP: not developed, not even fully designed, and combat is hella boring when it isn't a lagfest 

- mining: still not performant, still a monotonous mole simulator

- politics: the most political thing in DU is people flaming each other in the forum or discord 

- economy: haha, that's a good one 

 

So yeah, I get where you're coming from, but there's a laundry list of fundamental issues beyond the balance of PvP as it exists today. most of the core PvP concepts aren't even close to being developed, never mind balanced. 

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What's breaking the game atm is a combat system that rewards gankers with auto-wins and provides no means for us to defend ourselves. Warping around combat is a necessary compensation for a broken system. Warp is not the problem. It works as is should and eventually, the warp exit points will not be in safe zones. I hope combat will be better balanced when that happens.

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Warp works fine if the main goal of the game is to have PvP be objective based.   IE: PvP targets mostly pick engagements on an objective to get a response, or defenders choose to stay behind and fight for an objective.

 

IE: things like attack/defense timers on territory, whatever mechanic stations will have, and deciding whether/not to give up a supernode. 

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Remove the ability to warp to planets moons.  Only Warp beacons.  Make Space stations have some protection so you dont lose them while sleeping.  Then, you can watch people have wars over them, because they are now valuable.  Finish RDMS so the Duties are involved, so people who deploy Warp beacons can charge Quanta per use.  BAM now all the sudden you have dynamic interactions, and orgs will rise and fall, and war over the ability to control warping to planets (can always do slow boating, smuggle style han solo).  This would add so much to the game.  Civilizations would start to form around planets. 

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1 hour ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

- building: not stable, voxels still not working correctly for some players 

- PVP: not developed, not even fully designed, and combat is hella boring when it isn't a lagfest 

- mining: still not performant, still a monotonous mole simulator

- politics: the most political thing in DU is people flaming each other in the forum or discord 

- economy: haha, that's a good one 

 

So yeah, I get where you're coming from, but there's a laundry list of fundamental issues beyond the balance of PvP as it exists today. most of the core PvP concepts aren't even close to being developed, never mind balanced. 

I agree with 90% of what you are saying but just blasing NQ I'm trying to propose simple solutions that give the most bang for their buck. Seems like NQs biggest hurdle is development time. Trying to suggest things that could make a big impact with just changing some numbers rather than developing new or better systems. It is obvious the game is half backed atm. 

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17 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Remove the ability to warp to planets moons.  Only Warp beacons.  Make Space stations have some protection so you dont lose them while sleeping.  Then, you can watch people have wars over them, because they are now valuable.  Finish RDMS so the Duties are involved, so people who deploy Warp beacons can charge Quanta per use.  BAM now all the sudden you have dynamic interactions, and orgs will rise and fall, and war over the ability to control warping to planets (can always do slow boating, smuggle style han solo).  This would add so much to the game.  Civilizations would start to form around planets. 

Agree this could be a solution. Just rying to push NQ to do something with the balance that can help right now with very little dev effort. All what you said above is cool for when they have time to make it all work. There are many solutions they can do down the road but they take time. Just some clever reblancing can help the game come alive.  For now atleast. 

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3 minutes ago, BoomHeadshot said:

You all should just shut up and wait for the next patch before complaining about game features.

We know what the features are.. they are on the PTS right now. Unless hauling missions can only be made in pvp zones it won't help the issue I'm talking about very much. 

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2 minutes ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:

Agree this could be a solution. Just rying to push NQ to do something with the balance that can help right now with very little dev effort. All what you said above is cool for when they have time to make it all work. There are many solutions they can do down the road but they take time. Just some clever reblancing can help the game come alive.  For now atleast. 

I do agree with what you are saying.  Here is a good quick fix, TRIPLE all existing weight of ORE. And take all of Pures and cut it in half weight wise.  Now transporting ore isnt really lucrative outside slowboating.  So refining on planet you mine becomes the real thing, this will also help once territory warfare comes.

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2 minutes ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:

We know what the features are.. they are on the PTS right now. Unless hauling missions can only be made in pvp zones it won't help the issue I'm talking about very much. 

If you are trying to make money hauling.... Why would you warp? That's a loss to profits. I'm assuming mission value will be auto generated with random missions to add high risk high reward hauling populating PVP space. The further out you go i assume the generated missions would increase in value/risk

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Why are we rehashing this one again?

 

4 hours ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:
  • Warp cost increase

While I do not disagree use of Warp technology is currently too easy to achieve, how would that change anything except for maybe make warp more exclusive to (bigger) orgs?

I'd much more prefer to see NQ actually use the talent system to both gate and optimize use of warp through talents allowing those that wish to specialize in it to train skills to become a desired character in that context.

 

4 hours ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:
  • Removal of safe zones around planets in the pvp zone

How is that relevant at all in relation to warp? We know at which point the safezones around planets will go away

 

4 hours ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:
  • Reduce max warp distance to 250 SU

And achieve what?

 

4 hours ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:
  • Reduce warp speed (Something relatively to the actual distance that you are traveling rather than "instant")

While entirely fictional, warp by definition is instant upon completion of spool up time.

Also, for what reason?

 

4 hours ago, DecoyGoatBomb said:
  • Warp Interdiction (I like this the least as it takes dev time to create new functionality)

We know this will come, I'd expect at the same time safe zones go away

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I really wouldnt mind trying slowboating and building a ship for it first and all. The main reason I think people like to warp instead of slowboating is not necessarily just pvp, it is also the fact that slowboating means doing nothing at all for 5 hours, except for watching netflix until you are there while checking if you are being attacked.

 

As much as I would love people to shoot stuff, so other people buy new stuff from me, as long as slowboating means hours of nothing, I understand people rather avoiding it.

 

When I see:

 

Hours of doing nothing and chance of being shot at VS cost of warp cells

 

the bad thing on the left there isnt "chance of being shot at", it is the part where you do nothing at all for multiple hours.

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31 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

DUAL UNIVERSE.....all makes sense now! 

I know you're being a smart ass, but I don't understand it.  I get that dual universe means two universes, but I just don't understand the smartass tone.  

Explain

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Warp right now is perfectly balanced. The cost of warp cells to haul cargo is significant.  Crippling warp just to make it even easier for some psychopath to grief someone is hardly 'balanced'.  I fail to see what could possibly be added to the game by doing so.    

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1 hour ago, Kruzer said:

Warp right now is perfectly balanced. The cost of warp cells to haul cargo is significant.  Crippling warp just to make it even easier for some psychopath to grief someone is hardly 'balanced'.  I fail to see what could possibly be added to the game by doing so.    

When was the last time you had to fight off pirates when hauling? Never?  Me too! When was the last time you slow boated? Alpha? Me too! Because I always warp everywhere without ever being in danger. Not good for the game.

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8 hours ago, Daphne Jones said:

What's breaking the game atm is a combat system that rewards gankers with auto-wins and provides no means for us to defend ourselves. Warping around combat is a necessary compensation for a broken system. Warp is not the problem. It works as is should and eventually, the warp exit points will not be in safe zones. I hope combat will be better balanced when that happens.

I’ve done a lot of ganking and have missed plenty of targets, not always necessarily auto win

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