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[Discuss] We've Heard You!


NQ-Naunet
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Good Post But I seem to be more patient than others. I think you did the right thing and Hope things come back around. I personally like the game and don't Underestimate the ability for IP to keep people in the Game. I played Ultima Online for years after peak because it was the only game with custom home building. Ohhh The good old IDOC day's!

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The big issue for me is that .23 left me in a state where I am completely stranded, as I do not have a space-capable ship, a factory that doesn't work anymore, and no schematics are seed on my planet (jago).

 

Can you at least seed t1 schemas on all markets (or at least one per planet/moon) so people aren't stranded anymore?

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Nice to see that there are some changes planned.

 

"As it was, the current state of the game consisted mostly of isolated islands of players playing in almost full autonomy. A single-player game where players happened to share the same game world but with little interactions."

Well my interactions with players are cut down severely, I only produce for the market now. My dynamic factory is pretty much dead, the whole concept is dead. I can not just produce large amount of the required item anymore. I have to send customers giving me a list of items away and tell them I have a fraction of the things, but 20x the quantity if they want it. The market interface is ,as usual, not helpful. I used to have people come and go at my place all day long, now the place is dead.

 


"We will modify the formula of the schematic prices to make it considerably more affordable for Tier 1 and still challenging and worth a commitment but less intense for anything Tier 2 or above. "

So the whole market will get shaken up again, all prices change. All items that have some profit margin to recover the schematic cost have to be made cheaper to accomodate, wasted fees, wasted time. Again some people will be first to now sell and buy stuff as they hear the news, others see this in 12h and are left out. Reading the discord night and day should not have an impact on success of the players.

 


"We currently lack the metrics to properly assess this return on investment time. We need a player-driven market price for the components and a market price for the products to assess the profit made by each run of a schematic. This will come when the markets start to work as intended, and we can gather more data about them. "

PM me, I have a spreadsheet for everything. Just ask somebody who plays with numbers, not somebody who is busy making videos about the nicest flower gardens in DU.
 

 

"The second important initiative is to revise the role of the Alpha Team Vanguard (ATV), getting them more involved in early discussions about new features and the evolution of the game. We are still defining the framework, so more information will be released as available. "

So the guys with the inside info who played the market, leaked stuff to their friends and are the big winners of the update get more info early. I can’t properly comment on this without getting insulting.

Read the other 80% of the feedback the players gave you.

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Seems nice.
But can we have tools to communicate in the game ? We  can't leave a message to someone that is not connected, or even talk to someone that is not in our friend list or near us. It's the only MMO i know where the players can't really communicate in the game. ??

 

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"We will keep monitoring the price of schematics to see if it makes sense to increase or decrease the costs. The right approach to set such a price would be to evaluate how much time it takes to recoup your investment by selling the products that the schematics allow to produce. It should be a few months so that the investment is a real commitment and it makes sense to plan for it.  We currently lack the metrics to properly assess this return on investment time. We need a player-driven market price for the components and a market price for the products to assess the profit made by each run of a schematic. This will come when the markets start to work as intended, and we can gather more data about them. "

 

I am glad for the changes, it feel nice to be heard. but one thing worries me, because you do not seem to get it.

- NOONE and i mean NOONE will be selling components, it is inefficient and not profitable( Just by delivering them to the market profit will be eaten by fuel costs).

For little bit more investment in production line structure, they are going to always bring more profit turned into final product.

 

I would like to see current schematics to be reimbursed.

 

I would like to see those new proposed schematics pricing BEFORE they will get implemented please.

 

ATV needs to be disbanded immediately, and possibly looked into for information leaks, as Gottchar mentioned.

 

Overall good decision.

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My guess is this change was leaked.  NQ is a sieve.

I did what you wanted.  I allocated almost zero points to industry or mining this time.

I put the majority of my points into pilot.  Deciding to be a merchant.

Guess what I have been buying transporting and selling   ........... you guessed schematics didnt you  :)

So, I guess this explains why I didnt sell a single schematic over night.

Currently on my way back from Jago with a bunch of schematics to sell in Alioth

So, does this mean I'm bust?

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I have no issue with your vision for industry or mining because I would love to never have to participate in either activity. But you seem to have zero vision for those of use who want to be space truckers. Even with the bots there are no markets a trader can start out in and make money, especially starting out. Maybe if this is addressed in the future missions you speak of, but the grind to buy a ship is impossible when the profit will not even cover cost of fuel and god forbid making repairs while learning to fly. The number of times an element can be repaired before it is trash is not bad but poorly conceived idea that will force me to carry stock piles of parts with me everywhere. Can this please be modified so it can be repaired to full only so many times and degrades, maybe with color levels that we are already accustomed to? So after X times I can only restore to a functioning but lesser performing item? Now, I can easily look at my ship and replace parts that are in this state. Maybe if I further neglect 1x or x number of times then it is finally trash. The thing is, if I repair to 100% after I get back to my base I've forgotten what items are on their final run and I am guaranteed to be in a unrecoverable position next time I get even a little damage.  

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Introduce a new industry machine, or tie it to the recycler, that will allow you to place an item and give a chance (talent based) to receive the schematic for that item. Even if its been damages in combat. Obviously, you would have to repair it, but the item should be destroyed in the process of discovery.

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Hi JC and team,

 

I'm glad you think you've heard us. I've also heard you and have been looking for actual updates after 6 months of subscription billing. Not necessarily implemented, but maybe a developer update on what the progress is like on different features (if any) during this subscription alpha.

the lack thereof is reflected in the lack of my continous payment of 3 accounts.

I bid you farewell and good luck. You're not the only single shard games out there, even though you claim to have reinvented the wheel somehow. We don't need you to reinvent the wheel, just deliver a decent product.

 

Farewell. Unsubbed.

 

fly safe all. o7

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26 minutes ago, Billy_Boola said:

Element destruction should still happen in crashes.  Maybe give new players another way to repair them in their first month of playing. 

One month isn't nearly enough. I've been playing about 3 months and have only just managed to make enough stuff to build my first ship to learn how to fly. Depends how many hours per day you have available for this game. I don't think element destruction should happen in crashes. At least, not in the "Safe Zone".

 

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Just now, Celestis said:

have only just managed to make enough stuff to build my first ship to learn how to fly.

Takes maybe 1-2 hours of mining surface ores and nanocrafting to make a flying ship capable of 1000km/h at high altitude. What exactly did you spend all that time doing?

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@NQ-Naunet

Wading through all the opinions here must be hard work !! especially when many opinions ( Valid or not ) are written with toxicity and anger, rather than understanding and working with NQ through the changes ( More changes will come ! this is not the end of the road folks )

Here is a list of some of the valid questions i have seen here so far for easier reading.

*
What do you consider a high prices scheme btw?

*Sounds good but will you address the DRM issues? We need our voxel libraries back please?

*When will schematic prices drop?

*
Recycling of un-restorable elements through a recycler that will take an element as input and grant a small amount of the schematics required components as output.
How will this work ? 
Will you need a specific tier recycler to recycle corresponding tiered elements ? 

*
Can you at least seed t1 schemas on all markets (or at least one per planet/moon) so people aren't stranded anymore?

*can we have tools to communicate in the game ? We  can't leave a message to someone that is not connected, or even talk to someone that is not in our friend list or near us. It's the only MMO i know where the players can't really communicate in the gam
e.

* The number of times an element can be repaired before it is trash is not bad but poorly conceived idea that will force me to carry stock piles of parts with me everywhere. Can this please be modified so it can be repaired to full only so many times and degrades, maybe with color levels that we are already accustomed to?

* The number of times an element can be repaired before it is trash is not bad but poorly conceived idea that will force me to carry stock piles of parts with me everywhere. Can this please be modified so it can be repaired to full only so many times and degrades, maybe with color levels that we are already accustomed to?


Good luck ?

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What we need NOW... is the repeal or lessening of the restriction from the keep the port in support directive. The game is way too buggy with people sitting in a controller seat and their ship encountering spontaneous combustion. Ships need to STOP upon disconnect, intentional or otherwise, until some of these bugs are fixed such as sticking thrusters, failed engines, etc... this usually caused by scripts or Lua. Let players file a ticket, with log files, when their ship instantly explodes... the CS team can review it to see if it happen or if someone is exploiting just to get a free repair. 

 

While the lessening of t1 schematics are a good thing... that will help a lot of people, waiting to introduce different forms of revenue such as a 50k quanta bonus daily (ROTFLMAO) and some bots which people are exploiting through market code needs to be reinforced with some meaningful and decisive actions. 

 

THe front line guys like NQ-Blacksun, NQ-Wokk, NQ-Gallion, and those wonderful folks that are out there taking the brunt of the beating from players should be able to use discretion and get these players back airborne when bugs caused by a shoddy patch cause them to lose their ships, time in creation and repair of those ships, loss of element lives, and even the anguish it causes. 

 

BUT, AGAIN, relax the restriction on front line employees and let them keep folks in the air, repaired, and happy. When the programming gets revamped, optimized, and put forth in a manner that the bugs are near eliminated, ramp up the restrictions. 

 

The DRM changes... voxel libraries... voxelmancy tools being put together and sold by a player as his niche has now suffered the DRM setback. People who own them cannot use them anymore. That is quantas they have rightfully spent to purchase a product created in game by a player. I do not expect this man or their org to fly to each and every house in the system and ask if they need rights, and neither should NQ. 

 

The Dynamic Properties being locked on elements from screens of various sizes, to engines, to potted plants on constructs makes blueprints undeployable with any of these items, furthermore, it is making the items unusable in other constructs... the DRM on top of that affects placing an item from one construct to the next. Buy something from a player, well, you paid for it, but you can't get sick of it and tear it apart for elements. 

 

Make cores repairable again with scrap. Until you have a solid system with little to no bugs, make them repairable. 

 

Remember... it is your leadership that stands to be accountable and also an inspiration to players in the game. I speak of JC... your vision may not be the same vision as we all have. Do NOT force us to have to band together out of necessity. If the game is indeed meant to build empires, they start from small groups. 

 

Two more things... to JC, be thankful I am not your boss. We would have had a really serious discussion after the .23 patch about your future. To the rest of the upper echelons, including JC, arrogance, if it applies (if you just got that 'hair on the back of your neck standing up' feeling this may mean you) and pride have slain many a great minds. The most convincing form of communication as to a buying option is word of mouth from someone who has had the experience. Make things happen, as I have listed above as some examples, or you all will be finding yourselves the talk of the town on Reddit and elsewhere. 

 

Fetch, I do not understand why it was removed. The maneuver tool changes, could have been max elevation by planet. Exceed that, and ship fall down and go boom. STOP taking the "everybody is a cheater" attitude and punish those who are exploiting. Now, you can't fetch you ship, the GM's cannot teleport your ship, the SC are trying to dig out of the chaos of botched patches. 

 

Watch that server counter... it should have been on a steady decline after the recent fiascos. TIs a shame to see such a potential being thrown away. Communications... engaging the players and giving them good (WORKING) content, moving towards that implementation, and executing the implementation of that content flawlessly or as close to flawless as possible... Communicate, move, shoot... three most important elements. unknown.png

 

This is a shot of a fellows ship that he had JUST completed. He climbed in... and this happened. Put the support, back in the support with ports/repairs/ and assistance that means something to these folks. 

 

IF you have heard us... get 'er done....

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Emptiness said:

And yet again, NQ has proven they're out of touch with how the players have been playing the game.

 

Setting up a factory to produce everything one desires is just the first step, for many of us, through ensuring we have a reliable supply of elements and material with which to build our ships. The market is unreliable or too time consuming. Why would we spend hours traveling to different markets to pick up various ship building parts when we can just mine ore from our tiles and make what we need?

You're not speaking for everyone here. I don't want to produce everything so I can play it as basically a single player sandbox. You shouldn't be able to just produce everything extremely easily. You should have to interact with the markets and other players, just like the real world as far as production goes. That is NQs vision for THEIR game. Right now, the people playing the solo type game style are not playing it how they want the game to be played. I agree 100% with how they said most would get bored after a few months of just being able to produce everything in the game. That is "end game" and there is no real meaning past it. You don't have to work for anything. Unless all you want to do is build ships and constructs, then sure, that's cool for you, but that's not everyone in the game. I love the market side of things and want to see it play a larger role.

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Not sure you have really listened. Your still full steam ahead with your unpopular changes. Your just trying to make them more palette-able. I was at the AMA, you avoided the community by making it text based.  Avoided questions you didn't want to answer. It really was not player friendly.

 

How about you start by putting things in that we actually want. How long do we need to ask for a org wallet? Simple things like that, rather than what you think is end game. 

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1 minute ago, Mojofrojoe said:

How about you start by putting things in that we actually want. How long do we need to ask for a org wallet? Simple things like that, rather than what you think is end game. 

thats what amazes me about all this - its supposed to be emergent game play - it very much isn't.

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1 minute ago, Mojofrojoe said:

Not sure you have really listened. Your still full steam ahead with your unpopular changes. Your just trying to make them more palette-able. I was at the AMA, you avoided the community by making it text based.  Avoided questions you didn't want to answer. It really was not player friendly.

 

How about you start by putting things in that we actually want. How long do we need to ask for a org wallet? Simple things like that, rather than what you think is end game. 

To be fair to NQ, end game is going to be mostly what they say end game will be. It's their game. If it's not being played the way they envisioned, then they will make the changes to push it in that direction. Players will be lost, but other players will be gained. 

 

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I have seen so many video games make this fatal mistake. There will always be solo players and small group players. In fact , solo and small group players are the dominate player base of most games. The Mega corp large group player base is typically the minority simply due to real life constraints. Most players aren't willing to go all in and join a major corp because the simply do not have that much time to invest in the game on a regular basis. I highly suggest you develop this game for all play styles otherwise they will play something else. I recommend implementing alliances for the "lil guys" and expanding player roles drastically medic, various support roles defense support roles, shields, fueling barges, ammo barges. with each of these roles have a skill tree. There should be a fighter pilot skill tree there should be a transport skill tree there should be a trade skill tree the more the better. I think doing everything it takes to to get to another planet should be more rewarding than it is. It takes a fair amount of effort to leave the atmosphere and even more effort to make to another planet. Those accomplishments should be more rewarding establishing another base on another planet should be more rewarding. That's just a couple of things off the top of my head. I really like the potential of this game but there is more to be done.  turning single player / small group players away from your game is dangerous you risk ruining your game. Ohh and the skill point rewards are shit knocking off 5 mins off a 2 day skill is moot. 

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Quote

In its current beta stage, DU doesn’t have enough ways for people to make money because we haven’t yet had the opportunity to implement all of the necessary features. There’s mining, of course. Trading is not as good as it will eventually be because markets are not really used to their full potential. As a consequence, players rightfully turned to a solo or small org autonomous game mode. 

I understand all the features are not implemented, but I think you should consider the order of implementation.  The quoted paragraph above mentions how Trading is not good because people aren't using the markets enough.  Which leads to the desire to have people need to use the market, so the decision was to stop people from just making everything they want and lead them to purchase it instead.   I mean, I see the logic there.  However, consider the source of income.  The ONLY source of any input into the player's ownership of anything other than an empty inventory.  Mining, and the 100k login bonus. 

 

There is no demand for things because we can make things, but there is also no income to buy things other than what we already do to make the things in the first place. Mining.  With recent changes people are forced to sell ore to to the bots and pray someone near them is selling a thing they want.  Item off world? Welp, too bad you dont have a ship yet so mine some more and maybe someday someone on your planet will be selling that thing you like for a price you can afford. 

 

Trying not to go off on all the tangents while I rant, but the core of it is this: Add more input before you force more output.  Add things for players to do to get income, or 'progress' in some form, before adding a vacuum that sucks out income and progress.    This last update was heavy on the output when we do not have nearly enough input.  In a Dev build, its fine if there is no input/output balance because its just QA and focus testing.  But the impression for Public Beta (Paid, but public) is an expectation of playability.  The 23 update kicked that one in the pants and brought all of us to a screeching halt.

 

Additionally, the skill reset just happened out of nowhere.  Understandable, and maybe even needed, but have you tried to edit that training queue? I had the next 150+ days planned out.  Now its zeroed, with all my other skills.. which i have no idea if i had level 3,4 or 5.  The combination of industry stopping, schematic requirements, and rebuilding my character and queue simply to get back to less than where i was before industry wise...  not just disheartening but hours of work im just not up to doing. WORK mind you, not 'fun game time'.  Not something I look forward to, not like a chore that simply needs to be done.  Someone burned my house down and I have to get in there with a mop and start cleaning up the mess.

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I bet their custommer support queue was on fire to be forced to reverse the destruction of the elements, before noone cared too much about a bit of scrap and you didn't need to bother the support, after the patch I guess people weren't going to eat the bugs.

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1 minute ago, Emptiness said:

Takes maybe 1-2 hours of mining surface ores and nanocrafting to make a flying ship capable of 1000km/h at high altitude. What exactly did you spend all that time doing?

There is a whole lot more to learning how this game works and how to play it enjoyably.

 

It might only take a few hours to mine the materials you need to build a ship but that's once you know what you want your ship to be able to do and you have decided that's what you want to do.

 

Learning how to use the Markets, the RDMS, exploring Alioth, doing tutorials, all take time.

 

This game was completely new to me when I started.

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4 minutes ago, Rhotan said:

What we need NOW... is the repeal or lessening of the restriction from the keep the port in support directive. The game is way too buggy with people sitting in a controller seat and their ship encountering spontaneous combustion. Ships need to STOP upon disconnect, intentional or otherwise, until some of these bugs are fixed such as sticking thrusters, failed engines, etc... this usually caused by scripts or Lua. Let players file a ticket, with log files, when their ship instantly explodes... the CS team can review it to see if it happen or if someone is exploiting just to get a free repair. 

 

While the lessening of t1 schematics are a good thing... that will help a lot of people, waiting to introduce different forms of revenue such as a 50k quanta bonus daily (ROTFLMAO) and some bots which people are exploiting through market code needs to be reinforced with some meaningful and decisive actions. 

 

THe front line guys like NQ-Blacksun, NQ-Wokk, NQ-Gallion, and those wonderful folks that are out there taking the brunt of the beating from players should be able to use discretion and get these players back airborne when bugs caused by a shoddy patch cause them to lose their ships, time in creation and repair of those ships, loss of element lives, and even the anguish it causes. 

 

BUT, AGAIN, relax the restriction on front line employees and let them keep folks in the air, repaired, and happy. When the programming gets revamped, optimized, and put forth in a manner that the bugs are near eliminated, ramp up the restrictions. 

 

The DRM changes... voxel libraries... voxelmancy tools being put together and sold by a player as his niche has now suffered the DRM setback. People who own them cannot use them anymore. That is quantas they have rightfully spent to purchase a product created in game by a player. I do not expect this man or their org to fly to each and every house in the system and ask if they need rights, and neither should NQ. 

 

The Dynamic Properties being locked on elements from screens of various sizes, to engines, to potted plants on constructs makes blueprints undeployable with any of these items, furthermore, it is making the items unusable in other constructs... the DRM on top of that affects placing an item from one construct to the next. Buy something from a player, well, you paid for it, but you can't get sick of it and tear it apart for elements. 

 

Make cores repairable again with scrap. Until you have a solid system with little to no bugs, make them repairable. 

 

Remember... it is your leadership that stands to be accountable and also an inspiration to players in the game. I speak of JC... your vision may not be the same vision as we all have. Do NOT force us to have to band together out of necessity. If the game is indeed meant to build empires, they start from small groups. 

 

Two more things... to JC, be thankful I am not your boss. We would have had a really serious discussion after the .23 patch about your future. To the rest of the upper echelons, including JC, arrogance, if it applies (if you just got that 'hair on the back of your neck standing up' feeling this may mean you) and pride have slain many a great minds. The most convincing form of communication as to a buying option is word of mouth from someone who has had the experience. Make things happen, as I have listed above as some examples, or you all will be finding yourselves the talk of the town on Reddit and elsewhere. 

 

Fetch, I do not understand why it was removed. The maneuver tool changes, could have been max elevation by planet. Exceed that, and ship fall down and go boom. STOP taking the "everybody is a cheater" attitude and punish those who are exploiting. Now, you can't fetch you ship, the GM's cannot teleport your ship, the SC are trying to dig out of the chaos of botched patches. 

 

Watch that server counter... it should have been on a steady decline after the recent fiascos. TIs a shame to see such a potential being thrown away. Communications... engaging the players and giving them good (WORKING) content, moving towards that implementation, and executing the implementation of that content flawlessly or as close to flawless as possible... Communicate, move, shoot... three most important elements. unknown.png

 

This is a shot of a fellows ship that he had JUST completed. He climbed in... and this happened. Put the support, back in the support with ports/repairs/ and assistance that means something to these folks. 

 

IF you have heard us... get 'er done....

 

 

This post started very well, and until i got down to the 2nd half and it became an attack on JC you had some real good suggestions, and another one after the rant.

try to be less emotionally involved yeah, it's just a game. but some very good suggestions nonetheless.
 

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