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Let's talk DU quits

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7 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Thats why droves of people are leaving, not joing, or waiting to come back because of the PvP, or lack thereof.  If there was no pvp it would they would just rent servers, and have community ran servers, like tons of other games.  I'm sorry but after seeing one or 2 ships, or visiting someones box house, where is the appeal?  There isn't PVE.  This game was always pitched as the players run, and in turn, compete against eachother.  Game will/is dying if the pvp fails to deliver.  Just the way it is.

I like this guy 

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

I'm sorry but after seeing one or 2 ships, or visiting someones box house, where is the appeal?

That you do not see the appeal I understand and is clear. Than many do is also very obvious to those who keep an open mind.

 

Without PVP would those building ships and buildings have a game? yes

Without those building ships and buildings, would PVPers have the means to fight and things to shoot? Not so much.

 

Point is the two need each other and the level of IMO overly aggressive smack talk and "wait until safezones go away so we can start killing you and flattening your buildings" is what already resulted in the extended safezone so large it pretty much has established a game within a game with no need for builders/designers/creators to ever leave it (and they have no real need for T4/T5 materials anyway, even T3 is barely needed). The brash talk and attitude has seen your potential "target audience" cut off from you to some extend (you as in the combat oriented player base)

 

The fact that the PVP part of the game has once more been able to entirely hijack and derail a forum conversation into a yes/no thread regarding PVP is bad enough. PVP is not and should not be the main part of the conversation for the game. There is way too much that needs to be fixed for the game to work as a whole, and the purpose for/quality of PVP is part of what follows from other issues getting resolved in  the game mostly IMO.

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11 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

 If someone wants to be a pirate, or at least attempt that can be their end goal game. 

Put that way, sure. For me though, a player's goals in game are not the same as "endgame content". It is exactly that.. someone's personal goals

 

10 minutes ago, milkshake said:

Just a driving force for competition that keeps the game interesting and keeps generating new stories. 

Fair enough, although I do not consider combat as a goal and neither does NQ. It is a tool towards a goal.

 

 

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1 minute ago, blazemonger said:

Put that way, sure. For me though, a player's goals in game are not the same as "endgame content". It is exactly that.. someone's personal goals

 

Fair enough, although I do not consider combat as a goal and neither does NQ. It is a tool towards a goal.

 

 

They do consider it a goal.  You don't speak for NQ.  PvP is a main pillar, JC has many occasion's talked about pirates, and we know territroy warfare is coming.  He talked about territories having more meaning, so my goal could be to take someones, as there might be more value in them coming.  You think you know everything, but you atually know very little.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

They do consider it a goal.  You don't speak for NQ.  PvP is a main pillar,

 

PVP is "a" pillar, there is no "main" pillars

 

pillars.png

 

 

I also do not need to speak for NQ as they, in the form of JC, have repeatedly said that PVP is not, in their  vision, a goal in the game and that while yes, piracy is a viable playstyle as such, combat in general is designed with it being a tool with the purpose of settling conflicts in mind, not as a game (end) goal.

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First off, I'm a PVP Junkie!  With that said, I personally think it's not the PVP that's lacking (not talking about the minor tweaks that need to happen).  I think its just fighting in general.  There is no PVE fighting.  Think about it.  Take ARK, ATLAS, MINECRAFT PVE for example, even the avid PVE players have stuff to fight and blow up to seek rewards.  We don't have that here.  It's not necessarily about fighting one another.  Sometimes its about just about going out and blowing off some steam and having some fun.  A person can only eat so many green M&M's before they say, " I WAN'T A RED ONE!" 

I understand there isn't a true "endgame" to this game.  You are supposed to be able to build up however you want, use your imagination.  Again, even in Minecraft you can almost build anything you could think of, and there is still something to fight.  ARK, ATLAS, yes have "endgame" or END TIER" loot, but even on PVE they still have something to go fight.  I think the player base might grow more, or sustain better with just some of that basic content.  Some people hate mining, but would build a ship to go "farm" AI to get whatever they have off of them.  Ya, might not be efficient as mining, but still beats mining, and they also got to see something go boom!  To me that's a win win.  

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17 minutes ago, Daywa1k3r said:

First off, I'm a PVP Junkie!  With that said, I personally think it's not the PVP that's lacking (not talking about the minor tweaks that need to happen).  I think its just fighting in general.  There is no PVE fighting.  Think about it.  Take ARK, ATLAS, MINECRAFT PVE for example, even the avid PVE players have stuff to fight and blow up to seek rewards.  We don't have that here.  It's not necessarily about fighting one another.  Sometimes its about just about going out and blowing off some steam and having some fun.  A person can only eat so many green M&M's before they say, " I WAN'T A RED ONE!" 

I understand there isn't a true "endgame" to this game.  You are supposed to be able to build up however you want, use your imagination.  Again, even in Minecraft you can almost build anything you could think of, and there is still something to fight.  ARK, ATLAS, yes have "endgame" or END TIER" loot, but even on PVE they still have something to go fight.  I think the player base might grow more, or sustain better with just some of that basic content.  Some people hate mining, but would build a ship to go "farm" AI to get whatever they have off of them.  Ya, might not be efficient as mining, but still beats mining, and they also got to see something go boom!  To me that's a win win.  

Does anybody know NQs stance on some sort of npcs to fight? i have no idea

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11 hours ago, Emptiness said:

Is there a source for that quote, and can you give me a link to said source? Or is it in the mythical NDA forums that Must Not Ever See The Light Of Day Or Else? (this last sentence is to be read as sarcastically as you can)

JC said something like it should take a month for people to get off the planet... as to the exact source, I specifically remember it was JC's first interview after beta launch. Sadly I can't find it now, maybe if you ask in du discussion discord channel someone might remember. A lot of what JC says is scattered all over the place, there is no compendium of what was said when unfortunately... yet another communication problem.

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4 hours ago, lucagrabacr said:

<snip> people eventually gets bored of building stuff and space PvP feels kinda pointless

I haven't tired of building yet, especially when you throw scripting into the mix. But every voxel, element or liter of fuel I use, means I am also one step closer to having to go out and mine again. And that I am definitively more then a little bored of.

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13 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Thats why droves of people are leaving, not joing, or waiting to come back because of the PvP, or lack thereof. 

people who come to DU "for the PVP" may not be choosing the right game for the reasons I mentioned previously. If someone is looking for a PVP (centric) game I'd not suggest DU and hope I never will have to.

 

13 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

I'm sorry but after seeing one or 2 ships, or visiting someones box house, where is the appeal? 

Judging from the considerable percentage of content out there exactly doing just that I'd say the appeal is quite a bit bigger than you seem to realize. Just because something happens outside of your preferred FOV does not mean it's not there and it's not a big attractor for many (new) players.

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Hi to all.

As a new player, (just 3 days) , i want to share to you that the day before i purchased subscription to Dual Universe  i bought 'Infinity Battlescape' 😃

And after reading many posts in that thread ,  i asked my self  why?

I buy games many times based on  what they promise .

So i guess i bought DU cause i wasnt looking in DU what IB promise.

IB promise multiplayer PvP in a vast seamless space area right from the start.

But DU promises  (thats how i perceive it) something that hit another more softspot  in my gaming wishes.

A robust virtual space where emergent gameplay would evolve in a way maybe not to be predicted.

Quote

Entirely built and driven by players

So i guess the promise i want to be kept is exactly that. I dont see PvP as a necessity. I think that the game should try to stay true to its first vision.

Sidetracking in order to satisfy IB urges doesnt make sense to me. It makes more sense to try its best to deliver and work on that promise and see where it takes us.

 

 

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13 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

PvP is the main topic that is discussed. For a reason. Deal with it.

13 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

They do consider it a goal.  You don't speak for NQ.  PvP is a main pillar, JC has many occasion's talked about pirates, and we know territroy warfare is coming.  He talked about territories having more meaning, so my goal could be to take someones, as there might be more value in them coming.  You think you know everything, but you atually know very little.

Back to the original topic, why people are quitting DU. 

 

People like this, frankly. The discussion about PvP becomes instantly aggressive if not hostile. 

 

It isn't about articulating an opinion, it's about insisting over and over and over that the only opinion that matters is their own and that anyone that doesn't understand how important PvP is just needs to "deal with it". I've seen a lot of name calling and ranting without articulating anything of substance beyond a demand for PvP and an insistence that the game will die if their whims aren't met. 

 

I don't really see the point in trying to create a society with people in this demographic. I know there are plenty of PvP players that aren't like this...but there's too many that are. 

 

The PvP mentality seems to extend to every interaction they make with players in any context, and that just isn't fun or interesting for me. 

 

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Du has no endgame. In any form. I've said it before, but your options are either make a number get bigger (money), or pvp... which almost always makes a number get smaller. With the changes coming to repairing, that number's going to get smaller faster.

There is zero incentive to PvP. There's little incentive to mine. There's little incentive to craft. What Mulligan said was right.

This game is good for two weeks, then you run out of content. Most of the items are worthless (I've been crafting Lasers since launch, business has not been good). You can build cool looking ships, but then what do you do with them? Even if you PvP, there's no benefit, so it ultimately becomes an epeen measuring contest at best.

At least adding PvE would add tons of easy content. I'd prefer a true endgame though.

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Everyone gets something different from the game.  I have played all of the Beta and haven't quit..yet. For me it isn't about PvP. The draw for me was sandbox and exploration, I have no interest in the PvP side of this game at the moment.

 

For the most part PvP just seems to be you win if you have the right elements on your construct, the constructs that are used in combat have little to no thought in their creation, mostly(not all of them before you take offense) they seem to be just a cube or minimalist design with a bunch of elements thrown in then you just wait around for a name to pop up on a screen, get in range and hit the fire button followed by some text saying damage was done to random parts of someones ship, there is no targeting of specific parts involved it seems to be 90% ambush/gank. If you don't like PvP then you are kind of trapped inside the safe zones. Yes you can warp from one place to another, at the moment, but getting fuel for the drives is time consuming at best if you don't have heaps of currency. This is not appealing to me and tbh when the safe zones are removed and you get forced into taking part in this it will probably kill the game for me. I am not interested in the toxic attitude that is encouraged by PvP.

 

When I backed the game my interest was tweaked by the building aspects, being able to fly directly from one planet to another seamlessly, everyone on the same playing field etc. I did have a few concerns then, namely Lua and how much of an advantage this gives players over others that aren't savvy with the code and certain aspects of a no holes barred approach to gameplay. Things like scamming being allowed as it encourages 'emergent gameplay' sounds fancy but as you can see at pretty much any market place there are some that will just abuse any system in place and dupe others for the fun it gives them. Walls built near warp destinations(in safe zones), traps to sap currency from new players, kilometers high towers made from glass in the hope someone will crash into it, burying someones construct, the list goes on. These are not fun for the victims of this so called emergent gameplay and will just drive people away from the game.

 

I do enjoy designing ships, however ugly my designs turn out. This is proving difficult with the limited skins/designs of elements but I find that challenge fun sometimes.  More and more though the game seems to be heading in a direction where you have to learn something outside the game to get ahead, Voxelmancy, Lua coding and so on. On top of that there are a few bloated mechanics that I have no interest in learning such as the RDMS system.

 

More PVE adventures, more design options(honeycomb glass), more engine skins will keep me and a few people I know interested, PvP is going to stop a few people I know, including me unless something makes it appealing. And I don't mean making something only accessible through PvP, that simply excludes anyone not interested in it.

 

This is my opinion.

 

 

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On 11/17/2020 at 4:17 AM, Kirth Gersen said:

 

That's funny I'm the total opposite here.

 

I think DU would be a hit if it had a 'solo, offline,standalone' version with a eventually a local server for small co-op. Integrate with Steam Workshop to allow players to share BP and lua and you have a clear winner that could bring cash to develop the mmo.

 

 

 

At least for me, if I imagine DU as it is today, but singleplayer solo, all reason to log in completely goes away.

 

 

It then feels like KSP but with less deep flight and building(in terms of functional elements, not voxel) mechanics, and that's something that KSP just does better.

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

Minecraft

Vanilla, or with mods? (most relevant I can think of might be Gregtech, Mekanism, or Immersive Engineering) Also, agreed to that, with the additions of: Factorio and Satisfactory. 

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3 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

The 'perfect' DU in my eyes would be if they somehow managed to smash KSP, Minecraft, Space Engineers, Second Life and EVE into one coherent game.

Well, it tries... but.

 

Btw, for me of of most disgusting aspect of DU (put little bit strongly, but it is)... this feel of total sterility of game world, its all like dead plastic decorations. May be it something with visual style or scale or lack of features/effects, colours, sounds or primitive lightning. But combo for me a bit choking in surreal way. 

 

Sure, there is objects build by players... But here is the catch -- their builds in 99% of cases look in landscape very foreign and alienated,  like mistmatched toys thrown on white floor. In Minecraft builds consisted from same blocks as natural world, and because of this it was possible to make them very organicly fit into it.

 

Spoiler

Per example this my Minecraft builds, transition between nature ("basis") and man-made fields/houses are decently natural looking. In DU its almost imossible thing to do. Sadly.

 

15340610291100350058.png

 

 

 

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Well, let's go watch this building trailer: 

 

I've been testing this game since Pre-alpha. I know the current state of the building editor and terraforming (mining) tool and how it changed from back then. This trailer is just too good to be true! I do acknowledge and I know that you can produce such extensive results as shown in this trailer but you don't have good tools to do that. How is it achieved? By workarounds such as voxelmancy and spending way too much time (as for terraforming for example) because there is no easier way (which there should be! You want us to build? We will farm the resources but you will provide us a good tool). An editor needs to be intuitive! In Dual Universe, it lacks features to make it intuitive!

 

Since I want terraforming, I put my skills in dredging, and my god, terraforming in this game is very hard. Often, it leaves little FODs of soil floating in the air that you have to point out on (carefully) and mine out, one by one. You have to mine carefully (slowly) because it will leave a lot of FOD which you have to spend more time on cleaning up afterwards. 

 

It is ridiculously hard to terraform, it is ridiculously hard to voxelmance, it is ridiculously hard to script in this game with LUA (and I am intermediate in Javascript, and LUA is easier than Javascript). Furthermore, the auto configuration script sucks in this game that you will crash and burn with it. So, you have to program, and how do I do that if I am not a Senior Software Developer that you made the programming of this game to have a prerequisite of? You are modding the flying script of this game and how do I do that if I can't understand the backend?

 

My opinion of this game's building editor, scripting, and terraforming (mining) tool (terraforming in general) is it is capable of producing extensive results but the means to achieve those results is way too time-extensive and too difficult. I've already spent a lot of time, alright! I know what I'm talking about! I've been trying to build since Pre-Alpha! This is not the building game (building MMO) that I want to dedicate on permanently! It is too hard and it takes too much time to produce with the editor of this game! (and that is with you already having the required resources!)

 

I don't care about the extensiveness of this building editor, with terraforming, and with lua scripting if those are not achievable anyway without going through the complicated workarounds, the time-extensiveness, and in the case of LUA, understanding the backend. I can program with LUA but look at how complicated you made the programming to be! This is not a good building game for me! If I cannot produce with it, there is a good chance that I will quit! 

 

Make it easier to produce (given you have the resources) and leave it to the creativity of the players! let them spend more time putting thoughts to their designs rather than spending that time on the process. This comment of mine took time because I put my thought in it, not because I carved it on stone using a chisel and a hammer! 

 

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And by the way, the subscription model of this game is nothing! $7/month is nothing! Even $20/month is nothing! If you have a job, you can pay that! It is not a factor why most people are quitting or aren't attracted to the game! I don't understand why they ask this on the survey! People who don't intend to pay for sub ofcourse will be unattracted by the model. There are plenty of people who are willing to pay for sub if they can call the game their permanent MMO, especially if it is only $20/month. This is about their time man! Even at the cost of free, I will not be playing this game at this current state! This is not about the monthly fee but the state of the game! Try playing it and tell me if you don't get bored?

 

There are so many Free-to-Play MMOs already currently available in the market! Why am I not playing them? It has nothing to do with the money, they are just not worth my time! If it is worth it to dedicate on permanently, they will spend on it as they put the time enjoying the game. It is really just spending on a hobby/activity. It is not because it is Pay-to-Play why the game is dying. The biggest turn off for me is how complicated it is to content create in this game (given you already have the resources) regardless or not the editor is extensive. 

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38 minutes ago, Eternal said:

And by the way, the subscription model of this game is nothing! $7/month is nothing! Even $20/month is nothing!

For a finished, quality game, sure. Not for something lacking the features you asked for in your previous post.

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On 11/13/2020 at 7:22 PM, NQ-Naunet said:

High quality chat, everyone. Please keep it up. 👍

So I got an answer to one of my old support issues.

 

The issue was : I lost a ship irretrievably before I had a chance to BP it; is it possible to retroactively get a BP for it?

 

I won't quote the response here, but it was essentially: sorry you had a problem; we fixed it (totally false); try relogging and clearing the cache; closing the  the ticket.

 

It gave no sign at all that the support person had even read the issue. My guess is that this response was actually sent by a bot - a bot that sent an identical response to all outstanding tickets just to clear the queue.

 

More evidence that NQ is totally MIA 🤷‍♀️

 

P.S. I recognize that my request was a long short... the game may or may not store the data to recreate an un-BPed ship and even if it does, it may not be easy to retrieve.... "No" would be a perfectly acceptable response. "I can't be bothered to read your request so F off" is not an acceptable response.

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On 11/20/2020 at 8:52 AM, blazemonger said:

people who come to DU "for the PVP" may not be choosing the right game for the reasons I mentioned previously. If someone is looking for a PVP (centric) game I'd not suggest DU and hope I never will have to.

 

Judging from the considerable percentage of content out there exactly doing just that I'd say the appeal is quite a bit bigger than you seem to realize. Just because something happens outside of your preferred FOV does not mean it's not there and it's not a big attractor for many (new) players.

PvP is the main driving force behind the game. What we are playing now isn't even remotely close to what the game will be in the future.  If you cant deal with that or understand it, you are probably playing the wrong game.

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