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What Happened to Market Bots?


RugesV
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Here since you guys are not going to post a topic we can talk about this change in I will

 

"but ultimately this amount of quanta flowing into the economy could not last"

103 markets. with 10,000,000 buy orders at 25 quanta each for 4 types of ore is. 103,000,000,000 quanta  Now there are ~25,000 claimed territories. assume only 18,000 of those are paid territories. that is 9,000,000,000 quanta a week in taxes. 

 

My question to NQ is where is this 9,000,000,000 quanta a week going to come from?  The only thing that brings that kind of quanta into the game now is mission running. And you have basically made mission running a requirement to play the game. 

 

now lets say bots remained ingame.  Of those 18,000 tiles Lets figure an average of 300 T1 ore per tile. with an average with max skills and an average of 1.2 adjacency bonus. So each tile yields 70,000 liters of T1 a week. Some will produce more, but some will produce less. So roughly 1.2b of ore a week for all the tiles. Lets figure half of that went to bots and the other half went to industry. 600m liters is 15b quanta.  After taxes that is only adding in 6B a week in quanta into the game.  Figure 10,000 active players that 6b turns into 600k per player. I dont think thats really breaking the game. 

 

NQ, correct me if I am wrong here in my numbers, they are rough guestimates, but so far I think they are probably pretty close to the truth.  The harder part is trying to figure out how much quanta is leaving the game due to schematics. My group is probably going through 1-5m per player per week. which is more then 600k I quoted above.  That is still a net loss in quanta per week. 

 

Mission running is also adding in quanta. And I suspect it adds in allot more quanta per week then bots ever did. How much of your population does hauling missions vrs bot selling. Pretty sure the majority of your player base did bot selling, where only a couple did missions. by removing bot selling your hurting all those players. 

 

"but ultimately this amount of quanta flowing into the economy could not last"

So how much of this faucet was from bot orders and how much of this faucet is from mission running? As I have already show that bot orders are not breaking the economy. So it has to be missions that are bringing to much quanta into the game. How about you fix that? 

 

Of course if your happy with the amount of quanta that is in the game. Remove all the faucets and sinks. Get rid of territory taxes, get rid of schematic costs get rid of mission quanta rewards get rid of daily logins. Make mission runners rewarded with schematics and elements.  

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The facile approach to economics evidenced in their statement seems to forget entirely about schematics and inactive accounts or anything other than territory rent as quanta sinks, Makes it sound like everyone should be running NPC missions to pay for their schematics, because ore bots were only ever meant to cover rent. Which is arrant nonsense. Having NPC missions be essential to the economy of a game with no NPCs.... no disconnect there, nosiree!

 

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well, waiting on mission scrappings next as that is the last npc element in a game that advertises it has No NPC.

 

And only then we have the full player experiance, and with no renewable surface ores and all other kinds of quanta sinks and time sinks a dead game within a month, scrap that at the moment the quanta sinks are already killing it. Building lights is already not possible when you try to not use any NPC mission

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Yeah, NPC missions are my only in game income now. If they cut those, I'll go back to mining my own ore and flying ships I can craft in my nanocrafter.

With the exception of a few elements - lights, landing gear, warp drive - everything I've built since release requires only T1 ore precisely because I expected this would become necessary.

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6 hours ago, Leniver said:

We must not forget also the creation of BP, creating a BP L costs 125'000.

 

That's just a bloop creating an L CORE schematic costs 725,000... A single core.

 

CREATING any L size LIGHT schem costs 37,500 JUST FOR A FKKN LIGHT!!! plus you have to make the T2 parts.

 

Given the atrocious lighting in this decade old graphics engine, we need about a dozen lights or more per core to keep things cheerful, which bumps a core price up by OVER 50% JUST FOR FKKN LIGHTS.

 

Basically the 100k daily stipend will pay for 2 lights max.  Imagine that!!! Lights in a game set 12,000 years in the future of matter replication and teleportation are a fkkn premier product.

 

This game is blowing more by the day. Any remaining respect I have for the creators of this debacle is rapidly heading south.

 

Also, speaking of fkkn joke income, 85 Tonne payload planetary missions with 600 ℏ per kilometre payout are a fkkn joke, too.

THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REAL LIFE!!! THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GAME.

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@NQ-Nyota It seems NQ has not bettered their communication skills at all and is contradicting itself again. During a lifestream Deckard mentioned that the T1 bot orders not refreshing was a bug and would be fixed. Now, it reads as if it was intended behavior...

 

Normally people say that you shouldn't shoot the messenger, well I have some choice words for Deckard and NQ-Entrophy that aren't very nice... And thus not allowed on these forums. But maybe shooting the messenger is a good idea if no messenger will want to go out here and get shot, maybe they'll send in Deckard and NQ-Entrophy as then messenger...

 

My issue isn't that I think it's bad that the T1 bot orders are gone, I think it's a good thing. But my issue is the contradicting information from NQ that streams forth from it's rotting orfice, that might not be a nice description, but it's accurate... As how else could you describe the NQ communication channel for the last couple of years. No improvement in communication dependability, first say one thing, then another, and finally do a completely different thing! Every time this happens my motivation for playing DU gets a negative tint. I needed to decide yesterday if I wanted to extend my subscription for my main, I finally went with a 1 month extension at the very last moment, that should give you some indication of how I was already feeling yesterday about DU (and that was already better then during the last couple of weeks). If I had to extend today, it might have had a different result... It looks like every week less and less concurrent players, I also see a huge slowdown of new players (new Haven tiles)... It feels like this ship is going down, or is it already sinking and is NQ trying to get as much out of it before it goes under completely?

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^^ This... NGL @Cergorach is basically 100%, acerbically correct...   If this were a 1990s fanzine run by university students spending half their time pissed and the other half high, it's exactly the sort of quality I'd expect...

but since this is supposedly a 21st century tech-based enterprise with multimillion investment, the investors must be absolutely livid with their fiscal OBLITERATION. They might as well have just taken he money outside and buried it in a landfill...

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2 hours ago, Cergorach said:

Normally people say that you shouldn't shoot the messenger, well I have some choice words for Deckard and NQ-Entrophy that aren't very nice... And thus not allowed on these forums. But maybe shooting the messenger is a good idea if no messenger will want to go out here and get shot, maybe they'll send in Deckard and NQ-Entrophy as then messenger...

Deckard and Entropy aren't just messengers, they are actually the ones designing and implementing the "game".

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16 hours ago, Bobbie said:

Deckard and Entropy aren't just messengers, they are actually the ones designing and implementing the "game".

I know, NQ-Nyota is the messenger, but going off on NQ-Nyota is 'shooting the messenger'. But when continue to 'shoot the messenger', eventually they'll run out of messengers and need to send in the people responsible for the F-ups... 😉

Edited by Cergorach
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It feels like we are in round two of a cycle, where NQ launches the game.  And a bunch of people are excited and begin to play it.  And then a week or two later NQ decides that the most productive half of the players are consuming the content too quickly.  Due to "bugs" "features" "exploits" "working as intended" whatever they decide to call it.  People are playing the game.

 

Then the nurf hammer starts to drop.  But without consideration for the other half of the player base, that might not have been as productive as the first half, or maybe they just started playing yesterday.  Either way, it makes the game substantially harder for them, and they start to resent anyone who had the opportunity to gain an advantage during the first few weeks after launch (or launch 2.0).

 

I'm not sure if it's possible to bottleneck the most productive players, without hobbling the other half of the players to the point that they give up and walk away.

 

But giving a huge advantage to the first half, and then taking it away as soon as the second half figures it out, definitely isn't helping.

 

Telling the second half that it's something that they will be able to count on going forward.  And then taking it away just before they get a taste.

 

Maybe a balanced economy is possible.  Maybe it's not.  But if they are going to trip coming out of the gate, every single time.  Maybe forcing a balanced economy shouldn't be prioritized over player enjoyment and retention.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Cergorach said:

But my issue is the contradicting information from NQ that streams forth from it's rotting orfice, that might not be a nice description, but it's accurate... As how else could you describe the NQ communication channel for the last couple of years. No improvement in communication dependability, first say one thing, then another, and finally do a completely different thing!

IMO, NQ (the company) is behaving like an abusive person.  Constant lies and manipulation with barely enough apologies and truth to keep the cycle of abuse going in their favor.  More than enough of the signs are there to fit diagnosis for several personality disorders under the DSM-V (the relevant official medical guide in the U.S.), so I am not exaggerating when I say their actions are causing harm.

 

3 hours ago, Cergorach said:

It feels like this ship is going down, or is it already sinking and is NQ trying to get as much out of it before it goes under completely?

Again, if NQ is actually trying to get as much out of it before collapse then why no cosmetic cash shop?  If one were to apply Elon Musk's version of Occom's Razor and financial profit doesn't appear to be the driving force then what are NQ's investors really after?

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Thats what is needed. More demands to do practically anything. How about a cooldown between every action of every machine? And a skill how many machines can run simultanously? Like maximal..3? lmao

 

and events like randomly exploding machines and ships...oh damn. I forgot these are already implemented. 

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14 hours ago, Wyndle said:

IAgain, if NQ is actually trying to get as much out of it before collapse then why no cosmetic cash shop?

Because they don't have the expertise for it... If their current payment solution and subscription system is any indication... And if the cosmetics that have shown up to date are any indication, quality isn't really all that high and only the most dedicated would buy those anyway... Hell, they've not even gotten their DAC in order!

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2 hours ago, Cergorach said:

Because they don't have the expertise for it... If their current payment solution and subscription system is any indication... And if the cosmetics that have shown up to date are any indication, quality isn't really all that high and only the most dedicated would buy those anyway... Hell, they've not even gotten their DAC in order!

It's been a mystery to me for 2 years now why it was impossible to take the monetization model from the same Eve.

Modify for yourself and do it

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17 hours ago, RugesV said:

And dont forget more nerfs are coming:

 

", such as making crafting more resource demanding"

 

This basically means they are going to redo component costs of elements to make things cost more.  This is stuff that should have been worked out in beta. 


Damn, that's disappointing. where and who did this quote come from? I want to inform my org mates, but prefer to have the original article at hand.

 

Although the forum search turned up a blank, I managed to google the original article... I don't think I read that far into the article, so missed it first time around.

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9 minutes ago, Jinxed said:


Damn, that's disappointing. where and who did this quote come from? I want to inform my org mates, but prefer to have the original article at hand.

 

Although the forum search turned up a blank, I managed to google the original article... I don't think I read that far into the article, so missed it first time around.

 

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It is not our fault that these resources have nowhere to go.
If at least combat NPCs were introduced, then cartridges, scrap and elements would probably be spent more. The mass speed limit made it pointless to put more engines on cargo ships. With that model and the relativistic effect, up to a certain point, it made sense to increase the thrust-to-weight ratio.
The armor nerf also made tank armor pointless. And shields don't consume that many resources.
Energy was promised a year ago. Both for ships and for static structures.
There is still no adequate repair.
Much as it was in the early beta and remains.


In fact, all the announcements about MU nerfs, removal of market bots, increase in the cost of products are nothing more than an attempt to patch holes without a major overhaul.

Everything comes down to balance again. It was the shortcomings of the original balance in production / consumption that led to this. As well as persisting in clearly erroneous initial claims regarding the NPC. And at the release stage, various experiments with the gameplay are unlikely to be made.

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there is no balance in risk vs reward and thus most people will not fly their ships in PvP area. Only if elements are easy to replace and rewards are higher people will go there. In other pvp space games you will risk more if you just have a backup ship down at the docks. In DU, if your ship goes, your dead in the water so the risk for most is too high

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