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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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In have created a new accound to check how feels the experience of a new player, and for sure this game need a wipe, a new player can earn very low mineral each day , and old players have milions and milions stored from mega nodes, this is a big difference. A new player with max skills on extractor mining needs 28 dais to extract 1.000.000L minerals, we extracted this in the past each day from mega nodes. And with no cost of hex maintenance.

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I am against a wipe.


Since the beta soft launch, there should be no wipe in this regard and players pay their subscriptions to build a society. Just that society that is meant for new players to be able to use it. So why should we wantonly destroy all this? There is no real sense from it or a need to justify changes through a wipe. Some things can be solved in other ways.

 

I assume that there will be a wipe anyway, apparently it is already fixed and the question would be what kind of wipe. So, there you just have to say, you take the one that is fairest so that none is favored. So a complete wipe without any exceptions, anything else would be unfair in some way, because you could conclude advantages. No matter if advantages by skills, by quanta, by time,...if a wipe should be fair, then a complete wipe.

 

Nevertheless: I am against a wipe, because it is not necessary.

 

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8 minutes ago, Sycopata said:

In have created a new accound to check how feels the experience of a new player, and for sure this game need a wipe, a new player can earn very low mineral each day , and old players have milions and milions stored from mega nodes, this is a big difference. A new player with max skills on extractor mining needs 28 dais to extract 1.000.000L minerals, we extracted this in the past each day from mega nodes. And with no cost of hex maintenance.


 

That's a very limited view.
When I came into the game as a new player, I was very happy that there were players who could help me. I crashed the first few times I tried to fly - players helped me fix it, as well as with elements to make the ship really flyable.
I also used to run to the market with just ores in the beginning because I didn't have any containers until I was given some.
Having an existing structure and market helped me a lot, I was able to enjoy the game without much frustration and loss because there were many players who supported you. There are also now players who just do rescue missions when players are propped up, simply because they have enough reserves to be "nice".
So if we all start from 0, who should support others? There will be a great race to be the first at the finish of the power positions. To be the first to take the best areas for MininUnits, to be the first to provide a fleet for asteroids and alien cores....

It doesn't need a wipe for new players, because then you limit the support and openness of those players. We are playing a sandbox game here, there is no equipment or dungeons so you always have to progress and like World of Warcraft there is an equipment wipe for every addon. Here in DualUniverse, the gameplay is a persistent game experience that lives from who plays a lot and for a very long time, has achieved more. You don't have to be envious of other people's fortunes here, but should be happy about what has already been created! Every new player can become a part of this great community and contribute his part over time.

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If NQ does wipe clean, I'd like a guarantee that all 'known bugs' have been fixed. Also, retaining XP/Talent Points, would be my preferred option.  Maybe retain certain Talent Points and wipe others, may be another compromise.

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4 minutes ago, Reg_AU said:

If NQ does wipe clean, I'd like a guarantee that all 'known bugs' have been fixed. Also, retaining XP/Talent Points, would be my preferred option.  Maybe retain certain Talent Points and wipe others, may be another compromise.

Talent points would be a serious advantage though, in a wipe we wanted to be fair to new players right?

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21 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Talent points would be a serious advantage though, in a wipe we wanted to be fair to new players right?

Talent point wipe is needed to attract new players, so it’s obviously going to happen, regardless of peoples views on what they’ve paid for.

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8 hours ago, Megabosslord said:

(31:58) "Whatever you do after beta starts is going to stay in one way or another... You will get what we call for the moment 'magic blueprints'... blueprints with everything included in it so you will be able to respawn the things as soon as we restart the server. So we don't like to call it 'wipe'... The key thing is the beta is really the start... You can start to invest yourself in the game. We guarantee that you're not going to be losing everything at some point... the universe is blank again, and you have to start from scratch."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syku-NmSg4s&t=1918s

 

I smell lies. I smell lies.

 

<irony>Nah guys, did you 'invested' yourself in this game? Thankfully NQ haven't given away your 'guarenteed' assets to other players, because you where absent </irony>

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40 minutes ago, Zarcata said:


 

That's a very limited view.
When I came into the game as a new player, I was very happy that there were players who could help me. I crashed the first few times I tried to fly - players helped me fix it, as well as with elements to make the ship really flyable.
I also used to run to the market with just ores in the beginning because I didn't have any containers until I was given some.
Having an existing structure and market helped me a lot, I was able to enjoy the game without much frustration and loss because there were many players who supported you. There are also now players who just do rescue missions when players are propped up, simply because they have enough reserves to be "nice".
So if we all start from 0, who should support others? There will be a great race to be the first at the finish of the power positions. To be the first to take the best areas for MininUnits, to be the first to provide a fleet for asteroids and alien cores....

It doesn't need a wipe for new players, because then you limit the support and openness of those players. We are playing a sandbox game here, there is no equipment or dungeons so you always have to progress and like World of Warcraft there is an equipment wipe for every addon. Here in DualUniverse, the gameplay is a persistent game experience that lives from who plays a lot and for a very long time, has achieved more. You don't have to be envious of other people's fortunes here, but should be happy about what has already been created! Every new player can become a part of this great community and contribute his part over time.

Im Ok in the game have milions of mineral stored and all the T1 T2 T3 and some T4 industrie schematics and 40 milions skill points, i just try to figure how feel a new player who enter in the game now, and need a year to archive the same serources we earned ours in one month. Your point of view are, we are rich and we can take care of new players, but im not sure if new players enjoy this point of view, Feels not 100% legit.

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15 hours ago, MelTuc said:

How long have you been playing if you don't mind me asking?

I've been playing daily since the days of NQs NDAs.  Yeah, I have some talent points too but they've been zeroed a few times already.  Please, everyone, stop crying because you're too lazy to "rebuild again".  If you've been around long enough you'd already know it isn't THAT big of a deal.

 

FULL WIPE!!!!!

Talent Points (16Apr22).png

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1 minute ago, Sycopata said:

Im Ok in the game have milions of mineral stored and all the T1 T2 T3 and some T4 industrie schematics and 40 milions skill points, i just try to figure how feel a new player who enter in the game now, and need a year to archive the same serources we earned ours in one month. Your point of view are, we are rich and we can take care of new players, but im not sure if new players enjoy this point of view, Feels not 100% legit.

Whether a player accepts these aids, each player may decide for himself.
If the wipe were to be performed, a new player would still be helpless and would need an enormous amount of time to build up. The professional players will regain their wealth and opportunities very quickly because they have knowledge and experience and can prepare very well. So it means there is no fair equality in a wipe, because every minute, every hour and every day the gap becomes very big again between the regular player and the new player. So it's just a matter of time until new players are in the same situation as they are now. The situation will come up again and again, in 6 months, in a year in 5years...do you want to do a wipe every YEAR, just because again new players were lured into the game?

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I wonder what is the point to introduce late-game features, such as Alien cores, plasma collectors, plasma material, and all those new high tier elements.

 

While at the same time planning to reset game back to start.

 

If, after reset. player progression speed is "right", it should take reasonable long time before even veterans can access and utilize these new features. 

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18 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Whether a player accepts these aids, each player may decide for himself.
If the wipe were to be performed, a new player would still be helpless and would need an enormous amount of time to build up. The professional players will regain their wealth and opportunities very quickly because they have knowledge and experience and can prepare very well. So it means there is no fair equality in a wipe, because every minute, every hour and every day the gap becomes very big again between the regular player and the new player. So it's just a matter of time until new players are in the same situation as they are now. The situation will come up again and again, in 6 months, in a year in 5years...do you want to do a wipe every YEAR, just because again new players were lured into the game?

Its not 100% correct, why we no started in the same conditions, your point of view are half correct, the experienced player can advance more fast in a wipe, but actualy the old player have resources from a different paradigma , and this paradigma no longer exist, new player cant never live the mega nodes era, the mission exploit quanta era, the linked container resource teleport era, the dupping era, the schematics exploit rea etc... This mean include a extreme pro new player cant never archive this status.

The paradigma for new players is different, in a fresh whipe, we can start from the same point, in the wipe skill and experience can put you in advantage, but not in a dominance position like now.

Edited by Sycopata
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11 minutes ago, kulkija said:

I wonder what is the point to introduce late-game features, such as Alien cores, plasma collectors, plasma material, and all those new high tier elements.

 

While at the same time planning to reset game back to start.

 

We are still in a TEst period. We players are supposed to test everything and find bugs, that's the reason why it's a test version.
However, it's not really a normal beta, but a soft launch beta, which is why many players should pay for this "test".
It's very hard to see here that we players, but also NQ are in a weird situation, because it's actually still an alpha state.

But bringing an alpha status as a payment model with a soft start would probably be absurd, since everything could be changed in an alpha and there would be no guarantees whatsoever of getting something permanently. Which of course would also raise doubts as to whether players would have wanted to pay for it

Edited by Zarcata
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12 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Whether a player accepts these aids, each player may decide for himself.
If the wipe were to be performed, a new player would still be helpless and would need an enormous amount of time to build up. The professional players will regain their wealth and opportunities very quickly because they have knowledge and experience and can prepare very well. So it means there is no fair equality in a wipe, because every minute, every hour and every day the gap becomes very big again between the regular player and the new player. So it's just a matter of time until new players are in the same situation as they are now. The situation will come up again and again, in 6 months, in a year in 5years...do you want to do a wipe every YEAR, just because again new players were lured into the game?

I would like to express my agreement on this point. Wanting to level the playing field for newbies and older players alike "by doing a wipe" simply cannot be a valid argument in a persistent gaming universe, because it won't fix anything - and @NQ you know that.


You can help newbies to get into the game faster by improviong the new player experience (Last time i checked, it needed such improvements badly) - and @NQ you know that.

 

...But taking the hard earned goods and wealth of players doesn't achieve anything in that regard - and you know that. So @NQ, give us the real reason behind your "request" or forget it.

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Full Wipe

 

Keep talent points though or some way for vets to regain them quickly.

 

Blueprints kept would be nice, but I could live with or without them honestly.

 

Everything can be remade or rebuilt in little to no time the only thing that wouldn’t be achievable in little time with a wipe would be talent points. Keep those please, but if you must wipe them too then I understand. I will play DU regardless of what happens. If you love the game you will continue to play.

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12 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

You can see this in these forum responses.  There are a lot of "I don't want to lose my schematics" and "What's wrong with schematics anyway" types of posts, but where are the "Yes!  I've been waiting for this to happen for a long time and will definitely start playing again if you wipe+delete schematics" ones?  They're not there because those people aren't even on the forum any more.  They're gone.  And by and large they aren't coming back.

I am/was still playing and I'm not opposed to the Schematics removal, that's from someone that's been spending a lot of time/resources on acquiring Schematics since 0.23. I don't even mind that all my Schematics go POOF!(tm) without compensation.

 

Why?

 

Because I always found Schematics extremely unfluffy, we're far into the future, trying to build a new civilization and Aphelia suddenly reintroduces copyrights? Quanta makes sense as a token that facilitates trade between colonists. Schematics do not fit in here. Taxes also don't fit in that fluff imho. It breaks a bit of the game immersion for me.

 

I can understand why people see Schematics as a method to put brakes on manufacturing and facilitate trade, but what I've come to realize is that it's only a temporary brake for motivated people. The moment you get far enough ahead of the rest of the pack, your Schematic growth is exponential. This is also the reason why people where doing SO much missioning, they needed the quanta to buy Schematics. Sure you need it as well for taxes, buying BPCs, elements and ore on the market, etc. But certainly not so much...

 

As an example: Over the last months I've been doing a ton of missioning with my four characters and acquired 2B+ quanta. Some was spent on buying ore, BPCs, elements, etc. during that period, but the objective was getting enough quanta to start building a Warp Beacon factory on Sanctuary. Yesterday I had 1.7B quanta available and spent 800M on BPCs, that is an insane and unreasonable amount of BPCs to buy for any normal situation. The scarry thing is that with my current trade route that is about of two weeks of missioning... If I expanded my traderoute and/or did an additional traderoute with another PC, I would do this in less then a week. Now the missioning nerfs this would mean about 8 weeks with my current configuration, with an additional PC, maybe 5 weeks... BUT without Schematics, why would I bother ~100M/week is still way more then I need without Schematics. Why would folks have 20-100 alts for missioning if they have way more quanta then they can spend/use? Imho it's the same with (auto)mining, when I've mined 25M Natron for space fuel (year+), why would I continue to mine that? To sell it? Only if it's profitable and if I need the quanta....

 

Personally I think that the removal of the Schematics system and the Missioning nerfs with the connected max space speed nerf, will result in a better image for DU. It will not actually solve the things some players have been complaining about that is now resulting in a potential complete wipe, but it will make it way more hidden and more difficult to understand/comprehend. Which is good for NQ.

 

Now, if you do the Missioning nerfs with the connected max space speed nerf and NOT the Schematics system removal. The amount of Schematics normal, casual players can acquire will be so extremely limited that it is never going to be a game play loop they can participate in. Something you can already see in the forums on a regular basis. People make stuff and can't sell it on the market for profit. Because they can't sell anything for profit, they can't buy anything they can't build, as no quanta. They can mine (more) and sell that, but they kinda need those ores to build stuff. Even so, it would mean all the players that can't compete in the manufacturing loop are mining until there is so much ore that the ore prices drop a LOT and then they can't make much quanta anymore either, so back to missioning they go (if they can/want) or just quit.

 

When players, new or old, can just build anything they want, they just have to mine it. No quanta needed (only for taxes, but I would love to see that gone as well and replaced by something else)! Imho Schematics make the divide between rich and poor players ever larger.

 

 

Edited by Cergorach
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I'm a old casual gamer with 4 paid accounts since the beta started and have never used any exploits or missions, just relaxed mining after work. And I'm just about to finish my base after 2 years.
And it's the first time I'm writing something here, I just have to.

 

You want a wipe, ok I can handle that.
A fresh start for everyone, good.

 

But not without my hard-earned things, for which I have invested 2 years of my life and many euros.

By that I mean quanta, talent points and ships.

 

What good is a blueprint if it takes me years to get to the quantas and afford the parts for them?
How long should I mine to restore all honeycomb to rebuild a 42xL construct?

 

And now thank you for the money and the lifetime and just start again without anything?

 

I have no problem rebuilding my base from scratch. It's tough but okay.

Give me a magic container with my stuff and I'll start over.

 

Or maybe a M-core that we can fill with some Parts from our stuff that we can take with us after the wipe.

or also limits the quantas that are retained after the wipe for my sake.

but a complete wipe... please no.

 

 

and sry for the google english 🙂

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2 hours ago, AbnRanger375 said:

I've been playing daily since the days of NQs NDAs.  Yeah, I have some talent points too but they've been zeroed a few times already.  Please, everyone, stop crying because you're too lazy to "rebuild again".  If you've been around long enough you'd already know it isn't THAT big of a deal.

 

FULL WIPE!!!!!

Talent Points (16Apr22).png

I takes a special kind of viciousness to want to see other players' property deleted when it has no bearing on your own gameplay. 

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1 hour ago, Moonagi said:

Full Wipe

 

Keep talent points though or some way for vets to regain them quickly.

 

Blueprints kept would be nice, but I could live with or without them honestly.

 

Everything can be remade or rebuilt in little to no time the only thing that wouldn’t be achievable in little time with a wipe would be talent points. Keep those please, but if you must wipe them too then I understand. I will play DU regardless of what happens. If you love the game you will continue to play.

I have 5 builds that took more than 200hrs each to build. You have no idea what you're talking about. 

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1 hour ago, Neryman said:

 Wanting to level the playing field for newbies and older players alike "by doing a wipe" simply cannot be a valid argument in a persistent gaming universe, because it won't fix anything - and @NQ you know that.

That is not an argument here, it never was. ANd yes, I am pretty sure NQ knows that as they have not made that claim or floated that idea.

 

It's something some players have come up with, mostly because they simply have no idea about how the talent tree works and hwo their assumption is just nonsense.


 

  

51 minutes ago, Leppard said:

I like this game, but i don't like companies that betray their customers.

Except no one is doing that, whether they wipe or not

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Interesting thread to go through.

 

My short answer : Wipe all but talent if you want, but if you want it to be effective, you actually need to make the game fun.

 

But for the wipe aspect, I'm quite entertained to read some people reactions, many people criticize how the pro and cons are presented in an unbalanced way, but put seriously shabby arguments as comparing how other games handle wipes nor what JC said.

 

As for the comparisons I don't want to even talk about it as it is not relevant. But for what JC said, I'd just say you're delusional guys. It's actually a good thing that I didn't heard anything about him when I started playing the game, otherwise I would probably have ran away 🤣. Like it would be the ONLY guy in the industry throwing great promises to anyone wanting to hear him without any backing, especially when it comes to space games...

 

For those whining about how we're going to delete their precious belongings and progress, and that's a steal. I'd like you to start your brain for a second and think about it.

EVERY software you ever bought never belonged to you, you pay for a license that allows you to use it within specified terms and that's it. Think about your nice steam account, that could be closed anytime without any notice and you would have nothing to say about it ? (don't argue about NFTs it's the exact same, you just don't get it)

When you launched DU you agreed that you don't own shit, and this is more binding that any kind of stuff JC said. It's just a game like any other.

 

For those whining about how much the game did cost to them. I'd like to know who did pull out a gun on you forcing you to get a multitude of alt accounts ? You'd want pity from others because you're Pay2winning the game, you won't get mine at least.
Your x alts doesn't bring anything to the gameplay, go play Space Engineers and post some nice screenshots over some discord to show what you've achieved by yourself solo, the experience will be all the same.

 

But if you want the wipe to be effective, you would need to have a game out of this. And right now not much will change, I'll quickly recap as I think it has been said many times :

PvP gameplay is playing a point and click

Mining gameplay is a grinding browser game, dead in 2005 already.

In-Game social interaction tools are non-existing, so that the game sounds more like Discord Universe than anything

No element decay/destruction dooms any sort of economy/industry that could exists.

The buying bots/static missions, needs to disappear, you can't have an healthy economy by constantly injecting monstrous loads of cash in a daily basis from nowhere. The money should come from Added Value from player interaction.

 

But we all know the reality of this, there's no money anymore, (I'm talking about actual investor money, not the few pence the community paid overall). And as any software company, comes the time where you actually need to start making the money, and it seems that time has came too early on for DU.

 

Wipe will be necessary anyway as all the exploits and significant change of gameplay that happened since the last wipe. But I think it is fair to keep Talents, they do reward people that have been playing so far, while requiring actual gameplay from those to benefit from it.

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38 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 Except no one is doing that, whether they wipe or not

If they decide to do a full wipe they brake what they promised - i never would have invested hundreds of euros und hundreds of hours in a so called "persistent" game, that may be wiped. It's a not funny definition of "persistent".

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2 minutes ago, Leppard said:

If they decide to do a full wipe they brake what they promised - i never would have invested hundreds of euros und hundreds of hours in a so called "persistent" game, that may be wiped. It's a not funny definition of "persistent".

a "persistent" game that has not been released yet you dumb pos. doesnt matter what a dev said 2 or 3 years ago, you are the idiot for building your entire existence on a few words in this alpha/beta stage game

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2 minutes ago, Leppard said:

If they decide to do a full wipe they brake what they promised - i never would have invested hundreds of euros und hundreds of hours in a so called "persistent" game, that may be wiped. It's a not funny definition of "persistent".

For sure , time invested in gameplay have not value, are supposed you enjoy the game play, but time invested in passive talents learn, cant be destroyed, why you pay the subscription to non stop this training include wen you no play, is a nice way to keep people in subscription include if he take a break from the game, but you cant never wipe this skills, like EVE Online never did. And this is why every time someting change on EVE online skills, you get a refun. Why skills = your money expend.

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