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CURRENT DISINTEREST THROUGH YOUR WIPE STATEMENTS


Zarcata
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The last Q&A brought up the topic of the "wipe" again. I don't understand why this has now become the basis for discussion again. I decided on a 12-month subscription because it was supposed to be a persistent universe for us players and a "wipe" would be used as a last technical resort if there were no other options.
In no way was there any equality given from beta players to players who don't come until release. I would not have created my account and my children's if we had known there was going to be an economic wipe. At the time, NQ said that we beta players should already be building a society and civilisation so that players who will come to release will already see content and not arrive in an empty, dead solar system.

In short, I no longer enjoy playing something that I'm about to lose and then have to pay for. 
Would they go to the cinema and pay admission if after the cinema their memory was wiped only to be asked to pay again?

We would like to continue playing, so I hope that there will finally be a public and clear information if and in which form a wipe will take place. Currently, many players are moving their buildings to Sanctuary Moon in the hope that they will be safe there because it is (still) tax-exempt. Is it possible to save these many hours of rebuilding because a wipe will destroy everything?


Translation from German, I hope everything is translated correctly?

Quote

 

Durch das letzte Q&A wurde mal wieder das Thema "Wipe" aufgegriffen. Das dieser jetzt schon wieder als Diskussionsgrundlage bestand hat, verstehe ich nicht. Ich habe mich für ein 12-Monats-Abo entschieden, weil es ein persistentes Universum für uns Spieler sein sollte und man einen "Wipe" als letztes technisches Mittel einsetzen würde, wenn es keine anderen Möglichkeiten gibt. Dabei wurde keinesfalls eine Gleichberechtigung von Betaspielern zu Spielern die erst zur Veröffentlichung kommen gegeben. Ich hätte mein Konto und die meiner Kinder nicht erstellt, wenn wir gewusst hätten, dass es einen wirtschaftlichen wipe geben wird. Damals sagte NQ, dass wir Betaspieler schon eine Gesellschaft und Zivilisation aufbauen sollten, damit die Spieler, die zur Veröffentlichung kommen werden schon Inhalte sehen und nicht in einem leeren, toten Sonnensystem ankommen.

Kurzum: Mir macht es keinen Spaß mehr, etwas zu spielen, dass ich bald verlieren werde und dafür dann auch noch bezahlen soll. 
Würden sie ins Kino gehen und Eintritt bezahlen, wenn nach dem Kino ihr Gedächtnis gelöscht würde, nur um sie nochmal zur Kasse zu bitten?

Wir würden gerne weiterspielen, daher erhoffe ich mir, dass es endlich eine öffentliche und klare Auskunft gibt, ob und in welcher Form ein Wipe stattfinden wird. Aktuell verlagern sehr viele Spieler ihre Gebäude nach Sanctuary Mond in der Hoffnung dort in Sicherheit zu sein, weil es dort (noch) steuerbefreit ist. Kann man sich entsprechend diese vielen Stunden des Umbauen ersparen, weil ein Wipe dies alles zerstören wird?

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Elitez said:

I think if a wipe will be planed at release paying customers will receive the Months back + Some Bonus. I am speculating but thats pretty much the basic solution.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say they just don't have the money for that, sadly. Further, I think the excuse will be "its a beta" or some such. This has probably been brought up before, maybe answered by nq already somewhere?

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We have asked NQ to consider this: 

 

Release with a new system. All new accounts will only spawn in that system. 

 

All existing accounts are stuck in Heilous until a stargate is crafted. Make the craft time long like in the 90-180 day area. 

 

This gives new players a clean start without veteran interference. It gives existing players an option without a wipe where they cannot snowball over new players. By the time the stargate is crafted enough time has taken place to allow new players to grow without interference. 

 

Lastly it will add subs for NQ as some of you will not wait you will just sub a new toon to see and start in that system until the gate is open. 

 

Sort of a middle ground between wiping and not wiping. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Endstar said:

We have asked NQ to consider this: 

 

Release with a new system. All new accounts will only spawn in that system. 

 

All existing accounts are stuck in Heilous until a stargate is crafted. Make the craft time long like in the 90-180 day area. 

 

This gives new players a clean start without veteran interference. It gives existing players an option without a wipe where they cannot snowball over new players. By the time the stargate is crafted enough time has taken place to allow new players to grow without interference. 

 

Lastly it will add subs for NQ as some of you will not wait you will just sub a new toon to see and start in that system until the gate is open. 

 

Sort of a middle ground between wiping and not wiping. 

 

 

 

Player base is too small for a new system at this point imo.  I personally think the solar system is too big, too many tiles.  Feel its better to see if NQ can actually make a profit POST release, then use a new solar system as a good content patch a year or 2 later.

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1 hour ago, Elitez said:

I think if a wipe will be planed at release paying customers will receive the Months back + Some Bonus. I am speculating but thats pretty much the basic solution.

 


They will absolutely in no way every give you back IRL money if they were to wipe the servers. They probably don't have enough cash to do so.

 

Also: I think they will 100% wipe at this point. An empty solar system looks better than a dead one. I think. No idea actually, but this game is on life support.

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Funny thing is that if they fully wipe they would violate our cursed sanctuary tiles being permanent. 

 

So no matter how you look at it NQ has painted itself into corners where it will be breaking promises to one part or another of the player base.

 

Expect this to continue after launch in a year or two, cause the nature of the company and its staff will not change. 

 

They are in a position where all future development they make will put what the community wants at odds with what is profitable for NQ. 

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2 hours ago, Endstar said:

Release with a new system. All new accounts will only spawn in that system. 

 

All existing accounts are stuck in Heilous until a stargate is crafted. Make the craft time long like in the 90-180 day area. 

 

While on paper its good solution, in reality it will be more complicated.

 

Remaining vets are... lets say very dedicated (some -- absolutly crazy). They just will spam another X alts into new system, raping actual newcomers as hard as they can, both by land grabs and economic presssure and speedruns on pvp. And then eventualy finish job by pulling all their old stuff from old system (and I remind everyone, thats there are still immense ammounts of exploited stuff around).

 

So whole solution will be quite meh...

 

Only full wipe. Only exterminatus.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Elitez said:

I think if a wipe will be planed at release paying customers will receive the Months back + Some Bonus. I am speculating but thats pretty much the basic solution.

That will not happen just like a full wipe will not happen.

 

People trying to argue against a wipe really need to stop holding on to the non-existent commitment from NQ of a no wipe promise or even a "if all else fails" scenario.

  • NQ has not once said there wil not be another wipe
  • NQ has at several times mentioned there might be another wipe prior to release
  • All NQ has said is that there were no plans for a wipe AT THAT TIME

You lot really need to stop talking yourself into believing NQ made any commitments they never did. And some of you are so stubborn in clinging to these completely fabricated expectations you actually believe them to be true.

 

 

The argument that "you would lose everything" is simply not true. You'd keep blueprints and it would be highly unlikely that talent points accrued would not be refunded to the pool. If you start in a wiped universe with tens of millions of talent points and a backpack full of blueprints you will have a _massive_ advantage over those that come in fresh, if you at the same time group up and work together to rebuild even more so.

 

Now, if you want to argue that NQ would need to have some tools in place to make it easier to rebuild in a new situation where you may not have access to all the raw material or industry to rebuild, I certainly will agree that that is a fair point. As an example, I could see there would need to be an option to replace one voxel material for another when you rebuild from a blueprint and have the ability to exclude elements from a rebuild you do not have the need for or do not have the materials for. I would not prefer to see "magic blueprints" as they would allow much of the reasons for a wipe, such as remaining gains from exploits, to be recovered and the same goes for schematics, on a wipe these need to not be retained.

 

 

 

  

5 hours ago, Creator said:

Funny thing is that if they fully wipe they would violate our cursed sanctuary tiles being permanent. 

The two are not linked. Obviously on a wipe, you lose what is on Sanctuary.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jake Arver said:

That will not happen just like a full wipe will not happen.

 

People trying to argue against a wipe really need to stop holding on to the non-existent commitment from NQ of a no wipe promise or even a "if all else fails" scenario.

  • NQ has not once said there wil not be another wipe
  • NQ has at several times mentioned there might be another wipe prior to release
  • All NQ has said is that there were no plans for a wipe AT THAT TIME

You lot really need to stop talking yourself into believing NQ made any commitments they never did. And some of you are so stubborn in clinging to these completely fabricated expectations you actually believe them to be true.

 

 

The argument that "you would lose everything" is simply not true. You'd keep blueprints and it would be highly unlikely that talent points accrued would not be refunded to the pool. If you start in a wiped universe with tens of millions of talent points and a backpack full of blueprints you will have a _massive_ advantage over those that come in fresh, if you at the same time group up and work together to rebuild even more so.

 

Now, if you want to argue that NQ would need to have some tools in place to make it easier to rebuild in a new situation where you may not have access to all the raw material or industry to rebuild, I certainly will agree that that is a fair point. As an example, I could see there would need to be an option to replace one voxel material for another when you rebuild from a blueprint and have the ability to exclude elements from a rebuild you do not have the need for or do not have the materials for. I would not prefer to see "magic blueprints" as they would allow much of the reasons for a wipe, such as remaining gains from exploits, to be recovered and the same goes for schematics, on a wipe these need to not be retained.

 

 

 

  

The two are not linked. Obviously on a wipe, you lose what is on Sanctuary.

 

 

 

 

What's funny is, not long before beta it was ALWAYS PLANNED to wipe after beta.  It was always that way. The real anomaly here was when NQ switched up and decided to start their sub at beta. Everyone knows this reason was because they needed money.  But you can bet your ass behind closed doors they had conversations saying "well if we wipe after beta how many people are really gonna pay?". So obviously they realized not wiping or announcing that would stand to make them the most money.  What they didn't plan for was just how bad their beta launch was, and how bad 0.23 has been.  And how fucked up the exploits been.  But I suspect deep down they knew they would probably wipe.  I mean, JC sat there 6months into beta and lied to our faces saying there were "no red flags" for them approaching release.  If he lie about that, than not a stretch for them to lie about not wiping to keep as many subs as they could.

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The "no red flags" comment by JC was the point where I knew the project had gone off the cliff and he lost control of it.  Another one was the dismissive way in which he put his "of course we'll fix the bugs". It just really exposed he was well out of his depth and would not be able to recover from the many blunders he stacked up basically from the initial mention of the "beta" in April last year.

 

It was such a joy for us Alpha backers to finally see some massive progress in the game with voxel meshing, it changed the way the game felt and looked. It was really the first major step which showed progress. I recall the first time coming out of the first tutorial building after voxel meshing was in place and see the whole district rendered in as it was supposed to be, not as a blob of material. It was for me a moment where I got the feeling NQ might just be able to pull this off.

 

But that feeling never was re-enforced or returned after that as it was really too late already as everything was built on pretence and hiding from the reality of not being able to secure more funding, so the whole thing was one massive downhill slide into the abyss for him and he came very close to pulling the entire company and the game down with him.

 

JC was kicked out for good reason. His vision for the game was great, his lack of ability to adjust and mould it to fit what was technically feasible and his failure to find funding beyond the first layer of  his network, caused him to lose his company and his dream in the end.

 

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

You lot really need to stop talking yourself into believing NQ made any commitments they never did. And some of you are so stubborn in clinging to these completely fabricated expectations you actually believe them to be true.

 

Q: Was the wipe at the start of Beta the final wipe?

A: There are no currently planned wipes of Dual Universe, however, NQ retains the right and ability to do so for balance, technical or gameplay reasons, NQ will attempt to mitigate these effects through plenty of forewarning and various dev means so that players are quickly back on their feet. The only case of a wipe will be if NQ sees no other option.

 

 

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To me the problem is that after the last wipe, and up until the last Q&A, NQ had made it very clear that they didn't intend to intentionally revert player's progress, for the sake of reverting player's progress.  There is plenty of evidence to support this.

 

Any situation that might have required them to wipe, they could at least give out magic blueprints "so that players are quickly back on their feet".

 

A wipe for the sake of "resetting the economy" wouldn't really work though, if they provide magic blueprints.  And i don't see how NQ could keep their promise to "attempt to mitigate these effects through plenty of forewarning and various dev means so that players are quickly back on their feet" if their intentions are to do the opposite.

 

They can't really mitigate the effects of a wipe, if the effects of the wipe are the only reason they are doing it.

 

I'm not going to say i'd quit playing if they wiped, because i probably wouldn't.  But the truth is that there are several projects that i've spent a huge amount of time on and was planning to spend a lot more time finishing, that would likely never see the light of day again.  It would take me months to get back into a position to start working on them again, and from past experience i know i probably won't get around to it.  Huge builds have a kind of momentum that it can be hard to recapture, for me at least.

 

The fact is i've already walked off the Arcship twice with empty pockets.  I might not quit, but it's really hard to imagine mustering the same enthusiasm a third time.

 

If they do wipe for the sake of wiping, i sure hope all the people who quit playing once already, come back with a lot more enthusiasm this time around, because it would be a shame to have 100% of the player base alienated and unenthusiastic.

 

The second solar system idea sounds incredible to me, it really seems like the ideal solution.  I hope they consider it whether they decide to wipe or not.  It sounds like it would be fun.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

The argument that "you would lose everything" is simply not true. You'd keep blueprints and it would be highly unlikely that talent points accrued would not be refunded to the pool. If you start in a wiped universe with tens of millions of talent points and a backpack full of blueprints you will have a _massive_ advantage over those that come in fresh, if you at the same time group up and work together to rebuild even more so.

Yeah, nice. But i dont want an advantage over other players, i want my stuff, cause i spend time to get and build it. Its not everything about competition, there are a few people who just want to enjoy nice and beautiful things. 

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They always said no wipe unless absolutely necessary, plenty players have quoted their exact statement - it has been pinned in the Discord server since the start of Beta.  I feel like every new video they are grooming us for a wipe as they casually keep saying they are talking about a wipe internally.  First Q&A video for Demter it was a full wipe, now they are saying partial wipe.  They are saying this to gauge our reaction and test what kind of wipe they can get away with. 

 

They are saying we need an economy reset but at any moment they could have reduced the mission quanta amounts but they just left everyone running missions.  This is all just my opinion but they have let this all happen even when we told them on this forum day 1 after missions where released they would break the game.

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10 minutes ago, i2eilly said:

They always said no wipe unless absolutely necessary, plenty players have quoted their exact statement -

 

Not understanding a partial wipe is realistically needed for the game to be able to survive past launch is simply naive.

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5 hours ago, FryingDoom said:
Q: Was the wipe at the start of Beta the final wipe?

A: There are no currently planned wipes of Dual Universe, however, NQ retains the right and ability to do so for balance, technical or gameplay reasons, NQ will attempt to mitigate these effects through plenty of forewarning and various dev means so that players are quickly back on their feet. The only case of a wipe will be if NQ sees no other option.

 

 

Thanks for making my point for me

This statement clearly keeps a wipe of any kind on the table, does not make any promises about what may or may not be retained.

At best it sets the expectation of a "best effort" by NQ to reduce impact if they can.

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A wipe for the moment brings nothing to the game in its current state.


We don't even have PvP in play to actually use our wealth.

 

Bad people who cheated are rich but have no impact whatsoever.
Those who have already quit playing want to wipe but we don't really know why. She won't play post wipe anymore.
New players will not be coming as the current gameplay is WORSE than when the game was launched in Beta.

Well established players always will be.
We'll just have to start over with what we have already done. The difference for the game is that we wouldn't waste time building pretty things the first 6 months.

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4 hours ago, Kronskie said:

https://www.gamespress.com/ANTICIPATED-SCI-FI-MMO-DUAL-UNIVERSE-REVOLUTIONIZES-THE-VIRTUAL-WORLD-

 

"The team is planning its final content wipe for the Beta release, making it an ideal time to start rebuilding civilization."

 

/Shrug

While this is mostly the press release (which is a real shitty piece of writing to be honest).

 

Pulling a comment about a wipe out of it to suit  your narrative while you ignore what is a few lines down:

"Players can expect this pricing model to carry on after the game’s launch in 2021"

 

Should kind of tell you how much value this piece really has after everything that happened. This was written under the smokescreen JC dropped around the "beta" and his continuing dellusion of unrealistic timeframes for progress and release. As it stands this piece is outdated and made obsolete by more recent statements and commenst by NQ leadership which directly contradicts most of it.

 

 

Point is, I'm certain there will be a wipe, it wil be close to "release". Apparently @NQ-Sesch said on Discord that NQ plans to have a stetement around it sometime January next year. That in itself makes me fear the worst in that NQ may plan to do one, maybe two more big patches and then wipe and just drop the "release".

 

  

1 minute ago, VandelayIndustries said:

It's funny people posting where NQ said they don't "plan" to wipe.  Shit changes, just like pre beta where they planned to wipe all along after beta.  Is what it is.

Exactly, just a reminder that NQ never planned for a "public beta" until they announced it April last year. Development was supposed to remain backers access only up until release

JC really screwed the pooch big time with his stubborn personal reality bubble.

 

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

Thanks for making my point for me

This statement clearly keeps a wipe of any kind on the table, does not make any promises about what may or may not be retained.

At best it sets the expectation of a "best effort" by NQ to reduce impact if they can.

"The only case of a wipe will be if NQ sees no other option."

Rather says it all doesn't it. There are a lot of other options than a full wipe. 

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

Apparently @NQ-Sesch said on Discord that NQ plans to have a stetement around it sometime January next year. That in itself makes me fear the worst in that NQ may plan to do one, maybe two more big patches and then wipe and just drop the "release".

 

I really hope they mean 2023 It is no way near ready, they only just implemented huge changes. 

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