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THE FUTURE OF DU COMMUNITY FEEDBACK Q&A - Discussion Thread


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I'm going to hold on to something positive, so that no one gets the idea of calling me grumpy:

Thanks for the cool post. NQ has communicated more in the last 2 weeks than in the whole year so far. Please stay on this course.

 

It is important that you stay on course with this communication. And for the moment, it's right on spot. 

 

We'll see how it looks for the future.

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""" If there is a wipe (and it’s a big IF), it may be a partial one only affecting certain aspects of the universe."""

 

Imagine logging in that time in District X with 300k quanta in your wallet !!! LOL

I feel like some kind of monks that play with sand making something and then they start all over again ! 

Dont wipe ! 

 

Habitant

Habitants Organization

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23 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

It took me a whole 5 minutes to get the information how NQ can request priority access to a Shadow for development purposes.

 

 

So, NQ doesn't know if schematics are staying or going. They dont know if they are gonna wipe. They don't know when release is. They are done with roadmaps because they dont know when things could be developed.  NQ doesn't know shit.  Well, they do know one thing, they arent making any money. So there is that.

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45 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

It took me a whole 5 minutes to get the information how NQ can request priority access to a Shadow for development purposes.

 

As we stated, this is not currently a priority. That said, I appreciate the link you provided and have shared it with the team. 

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4 minutes ago, NQ-Naerais said:

As we stated, this is not currently a priority. That said, I appreciate the link you provided and have shared it with the team. 

 

How many players are logged in at once. Why are you afraid to tell us? Is it because it's that bad? Eve tells us who is in the launcher, and that game Is considered small and niche.  Just tell us how many people are logged in at once during primetime.

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On the issue of a possible wipe, from my point of view as a backer, playing since 2017 and on the beta since August, my only concern is all the time I invested on training talent points.

I would like to retain those (even with a respec) and wouldn't mind loosing everything else.

 

If underground mining is going away in order to save on DB I/O I don't see how to do it without wiping all that was terraformed on the planets and moons.

Edited by SpacemanSpiff
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If NQ would push in ways to maintain resource supply while they work on the problem of the database load from voxel manipulation I can see that and would be fine with it as long as it is a temporary change.

 

All of this really drives the fact that a wipe will be coming eventually though. I just hope NQ chooses the right moment for that as I think they will only get one chance. A big factor for this would be improvement of placing static blueprints especially. If NQ manages to get that sorted, as said earlier, if a wipe comes with retaining blueprints and the accrued talent point back in the pool, I'm good with that.

 

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4 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

If NQ would push in ways to maintain resource supply while they work on the problem of the database load from voxel manipulation I can see that and would be fine with it as long as it is a temporary change.

 


This is more than a database issue..... and you know it.....

Its about ppl not liking doing mining all day long.
It needs to be an alternative.

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As a software developer my self, I see a lot of potential to this game.

 

Some questions based on game experience come to mind.

 

How are you handling in the back end the constant changes to the game world landscape.

I can only imagine how much lag is coming from every tunnel and change in the landscape as it relates to: Database Lookup, Data Packetization, Transport, Decoding / Decompression and Spawning of that data on the client side. I have a very decent and not cheap gaming rig and the lag I see on this game some times causes other applications to crash due to CPU and Network overrun from DU. This I am sure is further compounded with the fact that player made structures are also contributing to the lag overall. I am a DBA and experienced in MMO Server side Coding and just thinking about how much you need in terms of resources for the voxel database alone is mindboggling. You only have a handful of planets, if you intend to expand this universe the problem will only get worse.

 

Also, having a game where people can do ANYTHING is not a good model. Every game has to have limitations.

Some of my Peeves are:

  • Players placing huge structures at markets impeding landing and takeoff
  • Player placed structures that are in flight paths at very high altitudes, tell me this is ok when you lose a large core ship and have a 200k resource repair to do that takes 20 hours to put your ship back together and restore it. Its not fun to have to fix a ship because someone put something in a flight path where it is not expected. On top of it all if the enforcement of element repair maximums is implemented you will have a huge complaint base to choose from when people have to scrap entire ships because of this problem.
  • Players littering the landing pads at markets with ships for months on end
  • There is no insurance to help with previous point
  • Repair unit no longer repairs ships, it only replaces elements
  • Immersion in the game is broken by so many things that are incongruent in how the story is told and played
  • Schematics tracking is a huge problem, I have hundreds of schematics and keeping track of them all is a full time job, not fun, game breaking. Why is there not a central schematic databank that can be linked to all industries and pull a copy of the schematic from any machine? or better yet, add a schematic databank to the building core?
  • Resources that deplete and don't respawn and the game server buying resources from players does not make sense. On top of that no recycling of items back to their constituent resources.
  • Reverse engineering should be in game to allow for those who can RE components and elements to get new schematics.
  • On a game that is based on a story line such as this, it makes no sense that a society that was able to come together to survive is now splintering back to infighting. This means that PVP has no real value or make sense in this game. /Put On flame retardant suit.
  •  

I probably have hundreds of other thing i have thought of but these come to mind daily.

 

You can contact me and I would be glad to consult with you and offer realistic ideas that can genuinely help you.

 

v/r,

 

Edited by PlasmaFlow
Added one point.
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2 hours ago, LouHodo said:

Glad to see some response with pretty honest answers a bit vague but I get it at this point... Dealing with CIG has jaded me on getting concise answers.  

 

I would like to know how you plan on increasing the interaction between players.   With the resources being the biggest reason to fight and the horrible distribution of resources at launch, having pretty much everything you need inside the safe zone and no planetary risk for anyone.   There is no real reason to fight.  Lastly with warp drives being so common now it is nearly impossible to do any real piracy or interdiction of a planet or moon.   Because you can jump from safe zone to safe zone.  

 

Lastly the weapons and PVP is pretty stagnated.  It is down to the shaped voxel brick with rails or missiles and the occasional beam.   There is very little variation now.

 

Next what about the useless cockpit module?  I mean it has the worst number of widgets and is pretty fragile.  It has zero benefit over the hoverchair.  At least give it a built in radar.  

 

On the radar topic... Why have two different radar types, atmo and space when you can't connect them to the same chair?   If I am willing to sacrifice the capacitor for the second radar let me use it.

 

 

I think there should be a place for PVP but they must also try to cater to the full player base. Not everyone likes PVP there should be options and ways for players to avoid PVP if they want.  I know players who love to explore build and mine for resources for example. Why should that player be forced into PVP because that how others like to play their game?

This is where NQ has to do a balancing act.

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Mmmm, sems extrange do you have no idea how much time you need to deploy or adress vital updates of the game, but at same time speak about a release date.

In my opinion , sems a dead end date, and i no feel are viable you succes in all what we are expecting, acording in the actual work in the last months.

No release PvE content in a game before the release... To focus on player interaction, sems a poor excuse to avoid the leak of skill to implement it, why actualy we got just a Game engine, with a UI.

To make this game full Players driven, you need redesign the full game concept to give interest on players on interact with other players, and not just for expo shows, or visiting markets.

 

Sems this game is not going succes, the problem are alwais the same, no accept the errors and try to fix the dead horse, wen you design a game, the basic ABC of game design are: Ar my game fun? Are my game challenging? , If game are not fun, or are not challenging you have not a game, just a interactive product.

 

Your game is a niche game, work for your niche and try atract all people who love this game style, go away for the concept to make a game more family friendly to claim the masses, why main stream players go away fast, if you just want grap the money and run, you just lost the wave, no longer mainstream players are coming back, only the fanatics of this hardcore original concept games are waiting for news. Were is the only secure zone inside sactuary promise? You are failing yourselves, if you no succes we are going jump to nex promissing game, but yours are going lose milions and jobs.

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2 minutes ago, Orth_Tanic said:

I think there should be a place for PVP but they must also try to cater to the full player base. Not everyone likes PVP there should be options and ways for players to avoid PVP if they want.  I know players who love to explore build and mine for resources for example. Why should that player be forced into PVP because that how others like to play their game?

This is where NQ has to do a balancing act.

The problem you run into with trying to cater to everyone is no one ends up being happy.  

 

I exploration will always be dangerous because you are going into the unknown.  Anything can end your trip early not just PVP.   Let us take real life examples of explorers dealing with the risks of exploration.   Cpt Cook had to deal with pirates, rival nations, nature, supply shortages, accidents, and native populations on his trip through the Pacific.

 

Exploration in safety isn't exploration, it is a field trip.

 

As with everything it is a choice.  If you don't want to take the risk of PVP then don't go out into areas were it is possible.

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2 hours ago, EasternGamer said:

Regarding schematics, I feel they should be something you find and can sell on the market. Maybe with the asteroids, there could be a crashed ship with a schematic or two on them? Players can then sell these schematics on the market.
^^ Just a quick suggestion. 

Edit: PVE content could tie into it in the future as well as an alternative method of finding schematics.

Yeah, PvE would help with finding them if starting players are able to do so. Shouldn't be asteroids, at least for everything that's needed to construct a spaceship and get to said asteroids to mine / discover. I'm just learning the manufacturing process, and with current prices it takes a few days of the login 150k bonus to get enough money for a medium assembly line blueprint, and then more for the small container inventory to start storing my materials.  The current prices for what I'm able to do refining the basic T1 ores doesn't make it too worth selling them.

 

2 hours ago, WooTiPanTz said:

I think the holes in the ground should deteriorate over time via earthquake activity or weight - this would allow for healing the ground. Also new ore deposits can form as they are shaken from the previously compacted 'undisturbed' soil. Personal tiles can be set so they do not renew any soil. Or like landmark did set it so you can create a zones on your own tiles where the terrain doesn't regenerate.

All the holes in my personal tile and ore has respawned. Not sure if that's normal so far, or if it was because of the patch and server reboot.

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Okay  I really like most of the things post with exception of  No NPCs.  This would add so much depth to the current gameplay and it should be easy to implement  with current lua functionality.    We could have whole planet blockades of NPC's  that have loot like schematic and other things.    Yes those could be in PVP space so there would be a crossover of PVE / PVP 

 

As for the population who keep screaming wipe.   I have put almost 16 hours a day into this game from the time it came out.  If they did wipe it would be a huge slap in the face to me and everyone else that has put in 100s or 1000s of hours.    People keep saying unfair unfair, if you put as much time we have into the game you would have just as much.      Put in the time and catch up a single person can make about 100m in 3 days if you mine all of that time.   Go mine like the rest of us have.    Then decide what you want to do and DU it.  

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5 hours ago, blazemonger said:

Do you _really_ need us to tell you what we expect/would like to see here? Frankly, that you even ask tell me you are pretty much oblivious to what is happening on the forums specifically. Maybe if you  replace "communication" with "Engagement with your community".. Does that ring any bells?

 

DU would be a better game and further along if NQ actually took note of so many threads in the forums with some great content, suggestions and ideas. But not ever a beep from NQ, no idea if it is ever seen or taking on board/considered (from the lack of any follow up it appears not) and then we see NQ make mistakes or strange choices that we discussed and suggested for months prior all of which was for nothing and ignored. There was one CM who understood this and tried, she really tried (at least that is the impression we all got and we appreciated her for it) but NQ lost her for whatever reason. And I will leave it at that.

 

This to be honest... I love how absolutely every communication from NQ is "business as usual" which is all the more cringe. The CM who actually tried is now in a better place (on earth :) ) and good for her. Some creeps at NQ CM management like to put chains on people and then gag them. I hope they're gone or else the communication problems will continue.

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3 hours ago, Ouzbel said:

Yeah, PvE would help with finding them if starting players are able to do so. Shouldn't be asteroids, at least for everything that's needed to construct a spaceship and get to said asteroids to mine / discover. I'm just learning the manufacturing process, and with current prices it takes a few days of the login 150k bonus to get enough money for a medium assembly line blueprint, and then more for the small container inventory to start storing my materials.  The current prices for what I'm able to do refining the basic T1 ores doesn't make it too worth selling them.

You are correct  one solution wont fix everything but what would help new players is,  basic blueprints being free or just provided like they were before in every machine.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, LouHodo said:

The problem you run into with trying to cater to everyone is no one ends up being happy.  

 

I exploration will always be dangerous because you are going into the unknown.  Anything can end your trip early not just PVP. 

 

Of course you are right here and I can only agree that (and I'm just sticking with the example here but it applies in general) exploration needs to bring a sense of danger and risk for the reward it can deliver in return. And a big part of that risk should be the PVP player base, that is certainly true.

 

BUT

 

For PVP to work in this context, what needs to be in place first is the exploration mechanic. If that sux and no one engages in it then there is nothing feeding into PVP. And that is why I will always agree with the idea that, while important as part of the whole, PVP needs to come into play in development once everything that feeds into it has been done to the point PVP can serve it's purpose. If development starts with PVP then what will happen is that the unbalanced interaction will chase away the food  ..

 

I understand that there is many who are hungry for combat PVP and I get that NQ has not delivered on their promise yet. But that is an overall problem and assuming for a moment that this will start to change over the next few months and we finally start seeing some structural and methodical development of game mechanics, as that process gets underway and evolves this is where NQ can start introducing PVP into the mix. Combat PVP in DU is part of the whole and IMO is the end of the loop, bringing it back to the beginning. But for that to be feasible, the loop still needs to get to the point where PVP can begin and we're a long way away from that point.

 

So yes, it will be a while if NQ does their job.. patience grasshopper.. Patience.

 

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As someone with hundreds (though not thousands) of hours into the game, I would support a wipe, with some conditions. Some things I've considered that might work and be "fair-ish":

  1. When release is ready, give all pre-release players a 4 to 8 week "head start". That works with lore, we're the "first wave" of new settlers.
  2. We keep all our talents.
  3. We keep all our blueprints. Not full constructs that can pop back in, just the plans.
  4. Randomize ore locations, so people can't go right back to where they knew stuff was.
  5. All the territory units we've purchased, we get back. Not the territories, those'll be up for grabs. But let us get back out there and grab the same number of territories we owned before.
  6. Same with cores. Put 'em in a market container for us or something, but let us have them back when we want them.

I don't know what the industry solution is. I agree schematics ain't it, but I don't have the brain or willpower to try and solve that. But the market needs to be able to reward all levels of commerce... raw ore, refined ore and elements of the various levels. Maybe some basic ships elements have to be available for the pioneers to go out and get to work, but I don't think Aphelia should be stocking the market with stuff like warp cores. Those need to be player-made and driven by player demand. And profit.

 

This is all just my opinion, of course. There's a lot of stuff in Dual Universe that's truly first-of-its-kind. Still having to make major adjustments to systems at this point isn't that big of a surprise. Having worked in software development for 15 years, I also know it's impossible to give all the users what they want. But it's also true that ignoring the best ideas (which aren't always the most popular) is a great way to alienate your base forever. 

 

First and foremost you gotta make your players want to play.  Honest to god right now, every time I have to go to Alioth Market 6 I'm super annoyed. That's the kind of stuff that needs to get solved sooner rather than later, or everyone'll get annoyed to the point they just wander off into other things. I don't want to, though. I want to be a part of gaming history. There's so much potential.

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Regarding schematics...

 

I think if you wipe then it puts everyone back on an even playing field - literally.   Yes, some of the newer players will lose some work, but you already wiped out all the older players - at least the ones who were not at the market in time to grab all those super cheap schematics.   The consequences of the entire .23 debacle made almost all of my org quit and put my org at a great disadvantage while others are probably STILL profiting from it.  

 

I spent three years helping to promoting this game, helping test this game and building that org up from scratch and it sounds like players like me are not being figured into your plans at all.

 

So i believe that after you make your decision on what to do with the schematics you should wipe so everyone who was left out can get an even start again.  I think it's the fairest way to deal with this for everyone involved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Novaquark, maybe?

  • NO WIPE - introducing a new star systems to the game & New Talent rework below, is as good as any wipe
  • remove all "bots" from markets
  • rework on talent system (when put down talents need to have their values reduced by 1/2, the other 50% will then be put with the manufactured talents so that items produced such as "fuel tank" get 50% of their max bonus form put down & the other from Production. Production time reduction should be moved to legate talent would be a start)
  • rework schematics system (this should be part of the new talent system where reaching a certain level grants access to a specific schematic / (New Item) - blue print machine, consumes small amount of t1 ore to produce (x) # of Schematics or BP, (these can be single/multi use items) which can then be sold to other players 
  • rework territory claim system - allow for "taxes" to be placed on mining / resource gathering, 0 - 80%. territory units would now come with the storage capacity of a small container and would be able to link to more)
  • Build height limit - there is no reason for buildings to go past 1000m - Let's keep our airways clear

Concerning the issues that we're having with constructs cluttering the marketplace. In my opinion there are a few things NQ can do to solve this issue. 1st each market would now have a hanger for ship retrieval. 2nd ships that are parked within the vicinity of the market for longer than 24 hours would be stored at the players expense, x amount of quanta per day & would accumulate until the return of the player. At which time SNP may pay to have his ship given back to him in the form of a magic blueprint, at the new ship retrieval hanger. 3rd players that wish to advertise their services should be required to rent an xs core size space available at the marketplace where the placement of an information desk with screens and VR pod can easily be accessed by market goers. 4th ship auctions could be held every month at the different market ship retrieval hangers for ships that have not been claimed by a player within the past 30 days.

 

Concerning Power Generation - 

Generators would link to a Core Type, supplying it with (x) amount of power per tick. Multiple PG could be linked to a Core at once.
The size/type of Core will determine its Power Storage Capacity & its Max Power Draw per tick. Any Component that requires power would now have a "Power Draw Rate".

New Component / Feature - "Witricity Node" an item like the "Repair Unit" or function added to it. When linked to PG can restore (x) amount of power per tick to nearby Cores.
*Note a higher Tier Node could link to an increased # of Cores at once or provide more power per tick to less units.

Thoramine needs to be moved to T4 Ore & Tritium put in it place as a T5 Ore.
New Schematic "Thoramine-233" Rare Refiner needed.
New Schematic "Tritium Pure" Exotic Refiner needed.
New Schematic "water/H2O" Uncommon Recycler needed.

Tier 1 - Coal Power Generator (steam power) - needs raw coal ore & water to function

Tier 2 - Atmo, Space, or Rocket Fueled Power Generator (mechanical power) - needs fuel & water (cooling) to function, fuel types have different benefits.

Tier 3 - Solar Fuel Cell Power Generator (fuel cell & solar hybrid) - needs sun, oxygen, & hydrogen to function has byproduct of water - won't consume fuel while in sunlight - cheap but slow.

Tier 4 - Thoramine Fueled Power Generator (clean safe nuclear / steam power) unlike its cousin Thorium, which needs a breeder reactor 1st, Thoramine becomes fissile after refinement.

Tier 5 - Tritium Fueled Power Generator (fusion Power) Tony called,....he wants his Reactor back!

Tier 6 - Antimatter Power Generator (Yeah...) UNLIMITED POWER!!!

Power Generators range in size from XS to XL.
Larger size PG can't be placed on smaller Core. (L size PG wont go on M size Cores)
Power Generators can be placed on any core type.

 

Another Possibility for Novaquark

  • maintains DU SDK & updates quarterly
  • work on core tech / backend systems for DU while having the modding community add in elements such as "power generation & usage"
  • sets goals for the modding community such as "power generation & usage" to be implemented into game at (x) date (this would allow modders to look months or years, down the "roadmap" and pick a feature to work on)
  • maintains small teams to test "mods" (say 3 different modders all meet the criteria as set forth by NQ but each has something unique to bring to that feature, the NQ team would work with them to merge their mods into a single releasable feature)
  • reward modders chosen to be featured in the game ( subscription time / *unique skins for elements in game / name added to a wall just outside the Arkship, Novark / etc.) (* as in only they have it, never to be given to anyone else, ever! That kind of Unique)
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Disappointing.   Non answers  and questions no one asked.   I wanted to know more than anything else if NQ has learned anything from the game's failures up to this point. If they have figured out that paying attention to the problems their players keep warning them about might be a wise move. 

 

Regarding the wipe. It will have to happen but it should come right before launch.  Until a whole bunch of fixing has happened, there is no point. 

 

That PVE is still thought of as a post launch option leads me to think they are still doggedly holding to their original flawed vision for the game. There is a time to realize, that while you do have a plan, its a plan that isn't going to work and it needs to be changed. I hope NQ is prepared to survive on an anemic player base until post launch.  

 

There is a glimmer of hope for the game now but its only that. Whoever has filled JC's spot needs to approach this with an open mind. 

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26 minutes ago, AshKior said:

remove all "bots" from markets

Why do ppl still see this as a solution... 

The is the only safety net noobs have... 

 

If industrialists cant beat those "1 buy 10000 sell" orders then how will players not interested in crafting play the game? 

 

Jesus. Would it be that hard to use your head for a 2 minute thinking before posting this? 

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27 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Regarding the wipe. It will have to happen but it should come right before launch.  Until a whole bunch of fixing has happened, there is no point. 

But NQ still says its a "IF it happens will be a parcial one"... 

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