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Let's talk DU quits


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7 hours ago, Bobbie said:

I don't want DU to fail.

We all want DU to succeed. Why did I backed it in the first place? My stake is to see it succeed and be developed as a good game for me to spend my time on. You asked for suggestion, I gave you my suggestion. It is up to them.

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I see a lot of different reasons here for people quitting or thinking of doing so, and sadly that further strengthens the main reason for me quitting.

There is always a loss in player base when a game launches, and after major update player base influxes. All aspects of the game seem to be "loosing" players right now, and I fear it is more than just the normal decline that is to be expected.

Reading through this thread, and a lot of other threads on this forum, I'm gonna generalize and say... people quit because ALL features are at BEST in their infant stages, many not even conceived yet.

Which then leads me to say "This game should never had ben "launched" like this."

For me it all comes down to this.

Does this game/dev team have a trajectory to "success"?

Success is of course different from company to company, and person to person hence the ""

But one thing I deem a big parameter of success is financial stability, and as far as I can remember, I read or heard somewhere that that is one of the reasons for the subscription based model of the game, and I fully support that.

So, to keep a subscription based game a success you need x amount of players to be subscribed, and here is the first red flag for me. NOWHERE can I see or have ever heard of what NQ needs or expects player numbers to be to be financially sound, and that might be ok if I had heard something like "we would be happy to reach such numbers as EVE has over a couple of years", or "50k players would make us happy" ore just something. All I have ever heard is JC's "We are developing... with a possibility for... hundreds of thousands or even millions". I know, that is not to be taken as "we need millions of players to be ok", but in what ball park is the expected/needed number of subscriptions?

And here comes the reason for this wall of text...

What are you gonna do if you do not meet those numbers?

My fear, and one of main reasons for me quitting is the following scenario.


  • game launched as it did, and is now suffering for the unfinished state
  • If they get updates out on a regular basis, an influx will occur, and then natural falloff
  • at "launch" (my best bet is in 1-2 years)there will be a big influx in players especially if and when they launch on steam and other platforms
  • My fear is here. A lot of those new players will drop of quickly, and many of them with a bad taste in their mouth du to the game "launch" they bought, is actually not a launch at all, that happened 2 years ago.
  • specially on steam, this will leave a "stink" on the game, bad reviews, if not all out review bombing, refund claims ect. and halt the player influx.
  • after that (if not sooner) we will be introduced to the in-game store, where items developed for the game, are kept out of the game for you to purchase. And despite it being a subscription based game, excuses like "its only cosmetic" or "not enough subs to keep development going, only maint." will be used.
  • more people leave
  • DU goes F2P to increase players, in-game store is filled to the brim of digital crap for you to buy, and not much development is going into the base game.

This "fear scenario" is fueled by lack of communication from NQ, forum post going unanswered, tickets taking 2 months to answer (that is my own ticket for lost items due to the early inv bug where items just went "poof" when picking them up in build mode), "discussions" about updates, and upvote on features does nothing for my confidence in this project (that should have happened long before you "launch" the game).


So to sum it up for those not bothered to read the wall...


The premature "launch" of the game, and handling of the community since said "launch" has completely eroded my faith in team and game.


Thats why I quit

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17 minutes ago, ZeeckZero said:
  • My fear is here. A lot of those new players will drop of quickly, and many of them with a bad taste in their mouth du to the game "launch" they bought, is actually not a launch at all, that happened 2 years ago.

Yep, its serious trap.


Because, right now, "no more wipes" policy most important thing, that keeps people playing/paying (even if not exactly for pleasure, but for future advantage). If wipe confirmed, many of them leave or go sleep mode. 


Yet all new players will be suspicious about seeing "just launched" game full of assets and immense riches of older players, especialy considering how dodgy economic works since start.


Only viable solution I see (that was born in out discussions with friends) is give newcomers on realease fresh nice system, but isolate them from old base for at least 30-40 days, by making warp gates impossible to build faster. Sure, some vets will be restless and still sneak in with new accs, but without their skills/assets (and in much reduced numbers) they will be at least less capable to totaly ruin newcomers experience.



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18 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

If wipe confirmed, many of them leave or go sleep mode. 

yes to an extent, but the opposite is also happening.

For me, the no wipe means that I quit(that is not the only reason, but a big one), and not because I am behind others, but because i fear it will prevent the game from growing from "launch", it is (not, but should be) growing now because it has already launched.

Now on the other hand, if there would be a "we will wipe" confirmed, where you get to keep BP's, I would probably keep playing on and off until launch, focusing more on building a strategy for myself, and a good bp library to carry ower, getting settled real nice in groups and orgs, to have a good vantage point at game launch, because then i would have confidence in the influx of players at launch, and more confidence in the long haul of the game

For me at least, the confidence in the game and dev team is NOT that they cant deliver a good game, I truly believe they can, given time and money

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23 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

If wipe confirmed, many of them leave or go sleep mode. 


Some may leave (and many who say they will, stay all the same) when:


NQ would do a wipe

NQ does not "fix" PVP

NQ "fixes" PVP


 end the list goes on..



Point being, some will always be unhappy no matter what NQ does. NQ needs to do what is best for the game, not what i(in the short term) may seem better for their bottom line. And unfortunately it appears that at the moment the latter is the case.

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11 hours ago, Emptiness said:

Oh, really? Cool. Certainly wasn't even hinted at in the reply I received, though.

It's not hinted at because the "Customer Support" team from all we see do not really have any contact with the devs, or at least a POC within NQ able to provide answers, and certainly do not understand a lot of the issues brought up from a player perspective. Having been in this business for many years, everything I see points towards a pretty much isolated, probably outsourced and low cost, team using a basic copy/paste library of templates where the most likely one is used. I simply can't see anything there that indicates actual product knowledge nor any inclination or option to actually escalate these issues to NQ itself.


If the above is not the case that would make the performance of this team even worse.



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13 hours ago, Darkracer125 said:


this is total nonsence.   

the thing about the moons is that for example gold on madis moon 2.    only shows up once every 30 or 40 tiles.    

that given with the fact that people have been scanning for a while now.   means that the chances of finding the remaining high tier ores on these moons is next to impossible.  


when i first got a scanner it took me 1.5 days to finally find cryolite on madis moon 3.   and it took almost a full day of scanning to find gold on madis moon 2.   

this is just how the moons are.  

but the ore actually is there.  (or maybe by now: was there)  


this isn't anything that needed to be reported.  or needs to be fixed.  they are just almost mined out and didn't have much to begin with.   

if you want those ores you are going to have to go to the outer planets and mine them there. 


and at nightranger about the ores on telemai.    that's just how telemai is.    the ore nodes on sicari are also tiny. the size of sanctuary nodes basicly.   it just means it's not as good as a planet as the others.   nothing to write a ticket about.  


Do you support the theory of checking the internet connection about it ?

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3 minutes ago, Darkracer125 said:

i think you quoted the wrong guy.   or i just don't understand your question

I explained that a bunch of guys didn't find an ore after scanning all the moon. Created a ticket. Support told them to check their internet connection(of about 10guys heh?).

It doesn't matter does that moon contain the ore or not. It proves support didn't even read the ticket and answered by template.


You quoted me and explained what moons contain what ore, it doesn't matter. The point was that support don't read tickets.

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On 11/19/2020 at 8:49 PM, blazemonger said:


PVP is "a" pillar, there is no "main" pillars







Blazemonger is correct, there is no main pillar.  There are different reasons people play games like this and PvP is just one of them.  A successful MMO gives different players incentives to play in a way that interacts with and supports all the other "pillars" of the game.  I've played this game obsessively since the beta launch and have recently run into a hard wall when I realized this game has fundamentally failed on every one of these pillars.  What has been created here is a beautiful framework with tons of potential, but the game itself is missing.  Just take a look at each of these pillars along with my personal ratings.


1) RPG - Score 2 out of 10.  We have a set of worlds in a distant future and a minimal backstory, but that's about it.  There are no other aspects of RPG present.  There are no skills to hone, no factions to support or oppose, no arc of personal growth, no quests, no pve.   You can do nearly everything right from the start.  Those few things you need to unlock with a skill such as being able to place larger cores can just be put in a skill que, log out for a day and when you come back you are done.  As an industrialist I have access to build everything in the game right from the start.  All I need to do is have the materials and the appropriate industrial unit and I can on day 1 make the most advanced items in the game. 


2) Exploration - Score 4 out of 10.  The worlds are quite beautiful when they finally load in.  I have spent a lot of time flying around just to see the different type of landscapes, however flying 5 hours to another planet does not make for compelling gameplay.  Once you have seen the sights the only real reason to explore is to look for mining resources.  If mining isn't your thing then this pillar runs pretty flat.  Without creatures or any type of PVE, the worlds feel sterile.


4) Social - Score 3 out of 10.  I'm primarily a solo player, or only run with my small group of friends.  However, that being said, I enjoy games where I feel like the world is alive and what I do on a solo level somehow contributes to the playing community.  There seems to be no reason to interact with anyone.  Anybody can build anything, and nothing is ever destroyed.  There is nothing to strive for as a community, only your personal goals.   Here lately I don't get the sense that there is anybody else out there.  I can go weeks without even seeing another player if I don't go to one of the districts.


5) Economy - Score 0 out of 10.  To me this by far is their biggest failure.  These developers have absolutely no clue how to create a functioning economy.  If you want to make a player driven economy you can't have bots.   If you don't want a player driven economy then you need to develop the whole system yourself.  Half-assing it never works and using bots is half-assing it.  How do you get money?  Log in, or sell to bots.  Nothing which is built ever decays or disappears.  How can you call that a player driven economy?  What are your money sinks?  Bots and Territory markers.  That's it.  When I can make far more money selling the raw ore than I can selling finished product the economy is completely broken.


6) Building - Score 5 out of 10.  This is to me where they have had the most succes.  The ability to terraform  and create your own bases and ships is pretty incredible.   However, as good as this ability is, it is very cumbersome and non-intuitive.  If I have to go outside the game to only to see the ridiculous and very time consuming steps I need to do in order to make even fairly basic shapes then as a developer you are doing it wrong.  You have created immense barriers to one of your best features.


7) PVP - I will leave it unscored in that I have not personally engaged in PvP yet, however I will still classify it as a complete failure.  First off, you need 2 people, or yourself and al alt in order to PvP??  That alone is such a baffling decision and is one of the big reasons I have never bothered.   What I have seen on youtube of PvP looks completely lifeless and boring.  My gamestyle is geared more to mining and crafting but I very much like the idea of building bases and becoming an industrialist in a high-risk environment.  The only problem is so far it's the empty promise of a high risk environment.  Decisions on building ships, bases, factories, and supply routes all depend on what the PvP environment is and of right now it's just not present.  If I build a base or a space station will it be safe?  Don't know, that system isn't present.   If it's not safe what kind of defenses would be practical?  Don't know, that system isn't present.  How will I dodge pirates when seeking  materials?  Don't care.. not worth flying 4+ hours and spending the time to set up a base and mining operation when I have no idea if I'll be able to keep anything or how risky it will be to fly materials back because the territory PVP system doesn't exist yet.  As of right now it seems like it would be relatively safe in that I am hearing all the PvP players are quitting because they are bored.  What sort of items should I manufacture?  Answer - Nothing.  It's more efficient to sell raw ore and buy anything I need.    No point in building anything for PvP either because nothing is ever destroyed.


Now I understand there are "big things to come" but the very basic things which make a game a game worth playing are simply missing.  It may be a sandbox, but there isn't much sand.  This game in it's current "beta" state is like being asked to test drive really nice looking sports car.  It looks great from the outside but when i get in there is no steering wheel, no gas tank and no engine.  I'm asked to imagine and get excited about the roar of the engine coming to life sometime perhaps in the next year.  Imagine how it will handle the corners and check out the awesome high-tech navigation system we have planned to implement in the future.  Why did you ask me to pay for the opportunity to test drive a pretty shell not even capable of driving?


I see the potential for this game and still have high hopes of what it could be, however I have very little confidence they will actually pull it off.  There needs to be far more game theory and far less "tech demo" of a single shard universe.  No point in making a single shard universe that is lifeless and absent players because those who are interested came, saw, and left.   You have lost a lot of good will from what would have been your most loyal fans by releasing this in the utterly incomplete state its in.






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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello everyone,


normally i do not post much but this time i think some feedback is required, we are beta tester after all.


I do not want to create a new thread (much covered here is posted by many other player), this should be a good collection.


So first things first, I normaly play in small groups with friends (not beeing a big org guy). We have a little problem, we all got a job and some have kids. I found this game and joined with the start of the beta, playing single, scouting if this would be a game for us.


I was quite pleased, the initially bad performance was getting better fast (on sanc), builing my first ship wsa quite fun and i felt great when that ugly piece of metal finally reached space.


But the problem remained the game required quite some time but the annoying virus helped me to stay ingame. My objective was to a small base , so that when we play together the other do not have to start at zero.


But then it started to go downhill in my experience, travel time in the bubble (without warp) is much to high in my opinion. But we are beta tester so that may  change. I was a bit suprised that you could mine everywhere without claming the territory. This combined with the scanner seems a much to easy way to get the best ressources.


Since I was not pressing on I felt that the madis and the moons had nearly no T3 left (this my observation). This was a bit annyoning but maybe a good reason to leave the bubble.

I started selling ores, bought an M-Core, warpdrive, guns and tried to build a ship for the trip.


Well at this point the update hit. At that point I looked at the time I spend ingame and how I liked it.  After going to space I watched Space combat with cannons rockets, and railguns ( a good serieson Amazon Prime) while setting the scanner to a new location every 15 minutes. Mining was fun at the beginning but travel time and repetition did not help much to do it over and over again.


I gave it a shoot but the distribution of the shematics and the problem of not to be able to craft fuel for my ships really annoyed me.

The last reason for my decision, was the checked box for mission on the roadmap, on salvage mission which only a handful of people can participate does not count as an alternitve way of earning money for small/medium players.

So I decided to stop playing to cool the mood a bit and wait what the future hold for this game, the concept is still very interesting.


n the end my main concerns for this game (for small groups / solo players) are:


  • not defence when offline (everyone who played that game that had sharks with lasers on their hat knows what I mean)

  • A world which feels depleted for new player

  • But most: too many tedious activities, fun > realism in my opinion.

My five cents. I know this is my subjective opinion but I hope someone found it interessting.





PS.: If somebody finds a spelling error he can keep it ;)







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Several months in now but this patch has me looking for something else. Day before patch the game crashed on me while flying a load of iron to market. 3k from ground logged back in a instant crash again.  Total of 4 crashes before I got a relog to hold.  By then. Ship crashed.   This is my first crash induced by game crashing.  No errors.  Just instant poof. Windows screen. So I repaired the ship and core.


login today after patch. And learn.  No more repairs to core.... I think ok. Build extra.......36million for BP..    I have 45million total.   Doesn’t compute. I don’t mind repairing my ship for crashes that are my fault.  But it’s to much to ask me to try and do those repairs now with all the barriers.

so either make flying safer some how or easily repaired. When it’s not our fault.


I don’t mind the BP requirement now. But give us at least the tier 1 items. Things like ore scanners cores ect.  Then make better version of them for purchase.

my reasons for playing this game are about exploring so I am waiting to see a galaxy... not one solar system and I want to be able to fly to a distant planet and still manufacture items I need.

I will continue skills for a while. But will be playing another game

some pve  Would be nice. Like empyrion 

but I am not willing to fly one of my nice ships with the current game setup 

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On 11/14/2020 at 6:52 AM, NQ-Naunet said:

You're the best, @le_souriceau - this is so key. Thank you for kicking off this discussion!

Don't stop! Never! :D 

I'll be watching this thread! I sure hope it generates lots of great insights. C'mon quitters, let's have it! 


I quit. You don't give a shit about us. Tech support now useless even though most of the problems were caused by your bugs which haven't been addressed since beta started. I'm a solo ship builder and wanted to stay that way so you personally crapped on me. I could go on but I just don't like NQ and the game anymore. Bye.


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dear NQ!

adding a money sink in a game where there was implemented more and more money every day without any faucet was correct.

enforcing more economic player interaction was also the right choice.

but there the things you did right with 0.23 end


what you did wrong was:

1. you cant implement a money sink without having money generating activities that players can perform (npc missions or something)

2. you cant make the major content(creating & maintaining industry) of the game difficult to access when you have no alternatives implemented

3. your money sink is too expensive. how should i afford a container L schematic for 4.2mill when i get 100.000 or 150.000 per day?


and don't think you can fool us. we know that 0.23 was mainly driven to create artificial content. like JC already said a couple weeks ago in an interview...he was unhappy with the fact that there was no late game and players reached the highest tier of capabilities in DU after 1-2 months

but this is totally on you. you underestimated our autism. the moons are empty, the meganodes are claimed...

to make you feel better: you're not the first game developer that steps into this trap. DU just got hit extra hard because we are not the ordinary gamegrinder-autists, we are eve online players


so now what?

roll back 0.23?

im not sure about that

work harder on npc-missions?

i guess you are already heavily involved in developing them but you're far from finishing them. otherwise you would have released that patch first

sit it out?

i dont know either.

ultimately we cant help you with this decision. we dont know about NQ financial situation or the status of current development.

but one thing we can tell you: for gods sake you f***ed up! use this knowledge for your future progression on this game


oh and when hiring game designers dont just pick the high tier ones, that code all day. pick some that also grinded the sh*t out of some games in their free time

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Man the f***** up the moment they introduced bots.


You can't see the effect yet, but every day the entire community throw into the toilet thousands of finite resources for money that will now be thrown into the toilet for schematics. They won't respawn, it's not an NPC that respawns every 30seconds.


There should never have been bots in the first place, let player build their economy, do you need wings? Let me build wings and sell them, remove the 2million sell order for wings for every market, just to make an example.

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I was very new in DU (up till 10/12/20 anyway) and really having a lot of fun, i ignored most of the tutorial (having seen it twice on you tume) and was just itching to go find a hex on Sanctuary.


Un-eventful journey there, particularly unsettling was flying through trees only to being slammed into an invisible rock on top of a hill and brought to a halt but none the less i made it to an empty hex, had a look about and didn't see any obvious holes in the ground so thought, 'ok that's mine, mine' (pun intended).

Started with the nano crafter and a mining tool and found the talent queue.

Over the next few weeks I've managed to amass a whopping 2.3Mil in the bank, L,M,S,XS assemblers and 2 or more of most of the assemblers and i'm happy as a pig in muck, not sure if I left my hex once other than to try a test ride in a Hover then flying vessel (always carry scrap with you....) of some personal freakish design.


Take a couple of weeks off due to work and living out of a hotel room just to get home and find out about some big patch.


Oh dear, no longer fun to me in any way shape or form, I can no longer tinker with building or make even the components for parts to do what I was doing before and don't have remotley close to enough cash to buy the schematics to even think about building anything.


Suggestions from Discord - Pimp myself out as a slave miner to supply ore to someone with a lot of money.............


Sorry but a game should be fun, i found the un-sub method, have employed it and it is with great regret I've uninstalled


As an aside I still have EQ installed on my PC and an active account that's 20 years old, Eve installed and a subbed toon there that's on a 15 year old account, but no DU after just 6 short weeks.


My personal take on this is very similar to SWG, it was a thriving game, player cities, crafting up the wazoo and PvP, then along came the CU - the player base shrank over a couple of weeks and after that it's time was numbered.


I do wish you well in building a working release game but until such time as the developers and owners actually try playing the game they are creating there is no hope. 


Final thing


PvP - I detest PvP with a vengeance these days, I've had 15 years of it in various games and just can't be bothered with it anymore any game that forces me into the position of having to PvP is a no go and unfortunately DU seems to be caving in to the vocal PvP playerbase as most games seem to these days (which is depressing and to be honest they don't have a great population a couple of years down the line)

Why not have a 'PvP switch,

In the off position, you don't even show up on radar can't be targeted and are an 'Illegal Target'
You can flip it to 'On' when on a planet and after XX - say 30 minutes - it switches your status to PvP enabled - you are now a legitimate target for anyone else who has pvp up and you show on radar.

To turn off PvP, simply land on a planet and switch off, after 30 mins your status switches to non PvP

Allow say 2 state changes in 24 hours as we know all PvP'ers just love PvP so they won't mind having restrictions in turning it on and off as they would run with it on all the time anyway.....right?

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23 hours ago, Buck_Rogers said:

I quit. You don't give a shit about us. Tech support now useless even though most of the problems were caused by your bugs which haven't been addressed since beta started. I'm a solo ship builder and wanted to stay that way so you personally crapped on me. I could go on but I just don't like NQ and the game anymore. Bye.


I don;t blame you and we don't know each other but I enjoyed your ship creations. I saw you working on one of your ships at the market and thought it looked so cool. Maybe I'll see you in another game one day. o7

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I unfortunately have a 12 month sub to this game. I won't be able to quit until that runs out, but I haven't bothered to update the game or login for about a month now. The reason I don't bother is because DU is not going in a direction I approve of. I'll happily list the reasons why DU won't get any more of my money in the future.


I'm a mostly solo player, games that discourage that aren't games I'll support.

Mining is boring.

I already have a few ships, so why should I bother to keep trying to upgrade to better ships, when they have become to expensive to lose?

This is primarily a building and PvP game. PvP is not good in this game and this patch nerfed building. What else is there in this game?


Last but not least, if this rework of critical game systems had come with a complete wipe like it should have would YOU still play this game? If the answer is no, then the patch was a MISTAKE. If at any time on any game you would not keep playing if you had to start over from nothing, that game has serious issue's. How exactly do they expect this game to grow when it does nothing to attract new players?

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@WeekendAvenger and other guys, I have proposal for you and question. To expand a bit usefullness fo NQ (if they read).


DU is obviously MMO game with competitive part (I's often used as argument "not your game"). I believe contrary -- DU must become game for much larger population, solo players included. But not all content will be realisticly reacheble for solo/micro group (or time will be enourmous), or dising will not make sense for larger groups.


So, question (for you and others to come): what is you comfortable reachable level of content/participation/economics in game to stay, enjoy as solo/micro group?

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2 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

@WeekendAvenger and other guys, I have proposal for you and question. To expand a bit usefullness fo NQ (if they read).


DU is obviously MMO game with competitive part (I's often used as argument "not your game"). I believe contraly -- DU must become game for much larger population, solo players included. But not all content will be realisticly reacheble for solo/micro group (or time will be enourmous), or dising will not make sense for larger groups.


So, question (for you and others to come): what is you comfortable level of content/participation/economic situation in game world to stay end enjoy game as solo/micro group?

From my perspective I expect to be able to do the level of things that I can do in any "normal" MMO. For example... I expect to be able to run standard dungeons with a group of randoms for instance, while knowing that the very highest level of guild raid dungeons that require the highest level of gear will be out of my reach. In this game, that would mean that I should be able to have a "reasonable" PvP ship and be able to participate with a group of others, even though I would stand no chance in a one on one fight with someone with the best elements on their ship. I'll list a few of the more obvious issue's I have with this game.


I should be able to build my entire empire from scratch by myself even if it takes "longer" than a large guild. "Longer" has to be reasonable, it should not equal more time than I have left before I die from old age.


PvP needs to have an option to be done SOLO. Sure, I may just be the mosquito that does nothing more than annoy the big guilds ship, but being totally excluded makes this game pointless for me.


Building needs to be able to be done in a "virtual" mode where you can have whatever you desire to build with and you leave the virtual space with just the blueprint of your creation. How exactly does a new player in this game learn to build a usable ship if they won't be able to replace one if they crash it? We are already at the point where no one is going to risk an expensive ship, this game is too buggy to safely fly now, who wants to risk losing a 400 million q ship after you've crashed it one too many times?

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I won't be resubbing any of my 3 accounts either.


I'm a solo player and this patch made it clear to me that I am not in the target audience. That and schematic prices are absolutely ridiculous, especially since you need one for each machine.


Making me redo my talents was just a slap in the face on top of it. That should have been handled on a voluntary basis.

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This link I believe, sums up my thoughts in a calm logical manner on the current game..



I, like others, am stuck but not resubbing. The cry I have heard from the forums as well as the discord and even comments on youtube has been very loud and clear.


Add to that my personal experience with the customer service team that really wasn't bad at all (Yes, I am aware of the popular belief/fact that devs don't talk to CS) I figure I may log in randomly until my time's up and maybe just maybe, by some small sliver of hope, they will, I don't know, cut schematic costs by 80%-90% as a quick-to-do example and maybe I can resub believing they actually do listen and have a full game plan.


I guess time will tell.


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