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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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1 hour ago, Sustained said:

 

I don't think it will kill the game, but rather will make it have a rebirth. It's OK if you disagree. 

I think there will be a rebirth. The grind will stay again and that will keep people busy for another 18 months...what will kill the game though is if there is no further development of the game...it's missing loads of content...so I hope they have a post launch plan.

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3 hours ago, Sustained said:

 

I don't think it will kill the game, but rather will make it have a rebirth. It's OK if you disagree. 

That is easy to say if you don't have literally years worth of effort stored as assets in the game. A game where players have payed real money to play in a mmo where PERSISTENCE was one of the main selling points.

 

So basically you are saying that burning bridges with the founding players with years of experience in the game, is a good thing that will make a fresh start that will make new players flood the game for...   reasons..?

 

In my opinion the only thing that will be fresh from a full wipe, is the vitriol and bad reviews/negativity that it will generate.

 

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The game is actually broken and devs themself explain that they can't keep a corrupted base (exploits without rollback/market bug/duplication/schemaforfree/duplication of voxels/too much quanta, ressources/...) for make a great release.

With a wipe we give a 2nd chance to NQ to modify everything that can't be modified atm (Schematics/Ore dispatch/Planets/etc...)

They can fail, but it's their only chance to create a DU who can attract a large amount of players, and I have a lot of assets in this game, in BP, in our junkyards (300+ ships with ~every nice ship from DU creator), quanta and ressources but that doesn't mean I can't accept those facts.

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I didn't pronounced myself until now. I'm a old backer, I stopped the game at some point to see what the releases brings out.

I'm probably not a hardcore builder as many of you and personally, like it was told before many times as we knew part or whole universe will be wiped, I'm okay with that until we keep the blueprints (static and mobile bp).

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2 hours ago, Cobqlt said:

The game is actually broken and devs themself explain that they can't keep a corrupted base (exploits without rollback/market bug/duplication/schemaforfree/duplication of voxels/too much quanta, ressources/...) for make a great release.

All those are 'normal' MMO issues that NQ MUST be able to handle without wiping the game.

If they cannot, then it will only be a question of time until a new wipe will be needed after release. And another one, and another and so on..

 

I mean we all know that the game will be unfinished when released right? And with major changes to the game coming after release, it means that those issues and worse are bound to happen again also.

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6 hours ago, LeoCora said:

The fact that deleting talent points is on the table for most of the options they are discussing internally tells me they don't see the entitlement to talent points that are 'paid for' in the same way as you.. 

 

I do not consider the post NQ made as putting anyting on the table as I am convinced they have made their decision to do a wipe as I have laid it out quite some time ago and the post is really just filler and a stalling tactic. The post really did not tell us anything.

 

 

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2 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

All those are 'normal' MMO issues that NQ MUST be able to handle without wiping the game.

If they cannot, then it will only be a question of time until a new wipe will be needed after release. And another one, and another and so on..

 

I mean we all know that the game will be unfinished when released right? And with major changes to the game coming after release, it means that those issues and worse are bound to happen again also.

100%, still not sure why people think anything that happened during beta was any different that stuff that happens on other mmos during the games life cycle. Exploits happens, dupes happen, systems get changed. Nothing that has been done is anything any different than any other MMO. You take care of stuff when it happens, or you suck it up and move on. Post release there can be 0 talk about wipes in any context. Your already forcing those who were not original backers to pay a monthly sub to something so "releasing" really isn't anything different, just removing the beta tag, that's literally it. We know stuff like schematics and industry can be changed without a full wipe, its been done when it was added. Tell us what we know has already been locked in at this point and stop pretending the community is full of 5 year olds who actually believe otherwise.

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

 

... I am convinced they have made their decision to do a wipe as I have laid it out quite some time ago and the post is really just filler and a stalling tactic. The post really did not tell us anything.

Well.. It did tell us that NQ is bad at executing stalling tactics.. Like really, really bad.

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On 5/19/2022 at 8:59 PM, Cergorach said:

With full cargo/fuel containers? I can fit a crapton of containers (~1100 EXL containers) into an L core... And a LOT of stuff is going to fit into that. Imagine If I can start the game with 800 million liters of stuff... Even if it's just T1 ore, that's 20B quanta I can sell instantly to a NPC market buy order... Now... If I do that for 4 characters...

No my man. Obviously empty. I am speaking of one free spawn of any 1 core Blueprint.

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Posted (edited)

 

In my personal case, I have lost faith, in this community there is a lot of talent, and they have been given many good ideas, both in game development and in communication with the community, but they are deliberately trying to ignore any idea that does not follow an agenda that they already have defined, unfortunately it seems that the project surpasses them, despite the fact that they have shown genius in some aspects, they lack sufficient critical capacity to admit errors in basic concepts of the game, they are copying mechanics from other games, without analyzing In depth how these mechanics work in the other games, to give a simple example, the mechanic of the alien cores is a mechanic copied from the moon mine of eve online, but in eve online the resources mined on the moons are resources of mass use In the T2 module manufacturing industry, while in DU the resources extracted from the alien cores are exotic resources with very residual use and little demand. 

 

This type of feedback that another company would appreciate, is probably taken as something negative by them, a pity that they do not appreciate the gift that their community offers them and take action on the matter, the game needs a rework, the game is not bad as a game , it's just poorly designed and easily fixable, you just need to sit down and design a Game Loop, where everything is staggered after an achievement / effort. 

 

To give an example of a simple loop: 

 

T1/T2 (open to everyone in safe zone, fuel consumption for industry use T1 and T2) 

 

T3 (Minable on surface of permanent asteroid belts outside safe zone) 

 

T4 (Scannable asteroids in unsafe zone with respawn) 

 

T5 (Alloys that consume a large amount of T1+T2+T3+T4) 

 

Plasma (Extracted from the alien cores and used for the operation of the industry of refining and production of T3+ 

 

"This loop creates a relationship between the needs of the players in the safe zone and the players in the non-safe zone, it also fosters interest in controlling resources, it opens 3 hot spots in the non-safe zone, generating a resource creation and destruction loop"

 

But unfortunately, something like this is not going to happen, they already decided to ignore all the feedback.

Edited by Sycopata
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NQ has generally pushed away most sensible ideas and suggestions coming from the community based on it "being too difficult to implement," "not having time and/or resources", "not being a priority" and more such terms.

I'd agree that NQ has locked their feature set for what they call "release" and on top of that, the game's core is so bare and basic it has no room to accommodate anything innovative or radically different from what they are doing now. 

I have made quite a few fairly detailed suggestions over the years and certainly the last two year and as with many others, have really not seen anything that would tell me NQ ever really considered anything but their own ideas, even when they were shown that these would not work or would be too basic.


It's also very interesting to see NQ deflect ideas because "it would be a lot of work to make that happen" and then come out with new stuff that basically covers exactly what is needed for the original idea. Things like
refueling ships at a base or even from another ship really should be possible with existing mechanics, transferring fuel from cargo/storage to fuel tanks should really not be hard to achieve. 

I've posted on power management with a solution which would not potentially solve several existing problems, it would allow for a good basis to expand the mechanic towards the future.

 

I posted on a better way to introduce schematics to the game loop(s)

 

I posted on better element deterioration mechanics

 

I've posted ideas on multicrew gameplay (construct mangement) options which, when discussed with NQ were deemed "interesting" but from that obviously never went anywhere.

 

 

Al of these ideas were posted early in beta and frankly, well before that.. and NQ really can't maintain the "no time" excuse on these IMO ..

 

I guess the point is that NQ has had ample time and opportunity to come to a pretty well rounded base game but instead opted to plough ahead and now end up with something extremely shallow and limited and effectively not all that much different from where they were three years ago, in fact they took a few massive steps back by removing core gameplay and replace it with a cheaper version that mostly plays in the UI and not in the game world itself at all.

 

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2 hours ago, decom70 said:

No my man. Obviously empty. I am speaking of one free spawn of any 1 core Blueprint.

I'm wondering how many expensive elements I could fit on an L core... 😉

 

I'm of the thinking that if you think you say something reasonable, someone in game will misuse it heavily!

 

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On 5/20/2022 at 6:31 AM, blazemonger said:

 

I do not consider the post NQ made as putting anyting on the table as I am convinced they have made their decision to do a wipe as I have laid it out quite some time ago and the post is really just filler and a stalling tactic. The post really did not tell us anything.

 

 

It’s just aggravating and disrespectful. 

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On 5/20/2022 at 2:31 PM, blazemonger said:

 

I do not consider the post NQ made as putting anyting on the table as I am convinced they have made their decision to do a wipe as I have laid it out quite some time ago and the post is really just filler and a stalling tactic. The post really did not tell us anything.

 

 

If you know what NQ are going to do more than NQ know then we are in trouble 

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NQ made some big time mistakes during this early access time period and a full wipe is 100% required. 

 

Not everyone stays up to date on the forums, and like many, will be dormant for 3-6+ months at a time. 

 

NQ has lost a large amount of players back when they decided to give other players their bases and resources after those folks spent months gathering and setting up their base. (fact)

 

I know of at least 30+ accounts from friends who will never come back or give the game another try unless a full wipe takes place, as like myself, a great many players are burned out after losing months of time and effort we put into our company/orgs, only to come back and find it all was taken away. 

 

The very small minority of hard core players who threaten to leave is such a tiny number compared to the large amount of players who would return, but then again, it's this very tiny minority of players that make the most noise. These folks have no care about the game itself or the longevity of it. They only care about keeping what they exploited through various methods through out this early access learning period that NQ has been going through. 

 

I would very much like to give the game a 2nd chance, so here is to hoping NQ can make the tough, but fair decision to do a full wipe after learning everything they have, especially with so many major changes made over the past 12+ months. 

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2 hours ago, LeoCora said:

If you know what NQ are going to do more than NQ know then we are in trouble 

 

I do not claim to know what NQ will do, I will follow the signs and indicators across the course of beta and pretty much all of them point at a wipe prior to release. It's really not hard to connect these dots.

I am also certain NQ knows what is going to happen either way as just a few months away from release, they'd better be. If they do not then indeed, they and the game are in trouble..

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4 hours ago, Doombad said:

It’s just aggravating and disrespectful. 

 

I really do not think that is NQ's intent. I believe they are just pretty much clueless on the impact their attitude and style of  communication has. They are so entrenched in getting to release they have pretty much lost sight of what is happening around them and in the community. The past months they have on several occasions shows to not have any idea about what actually is happening in the community and just try and spiin soe of it to fit their narrative, pretending to "hear" us. 

I expect the pressure from the top is so heavy, they really have no energy to focus on us or what we are discussing.

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56 minutes ago, Palad1n said:

NQ made some big time mistakes during this early access time period and a full wipe is 100% required. 

 

Not everyone stays up to date on the forums, and like many, will be dormant for 3-6+ months at a time.

The "early access" time was supposed to be over when NQ said the game was now in "beta", and proclaimed the beta wipe would be the last full wipe so that they could soft-release and start charging subscriptions.

 

Some of the later (cost saving) changes to the game have been designed specifically so that you cannot leave for longer periods of time. This was a conscious decision made by NQ. Meaning that regardless of if you are paying a subscription or not, NQ decided they would hold your assets hostage and saying that you have to play regularly or else..  And as with most of the full wipe arguments, they are issues that a full wipe will not change anything about. And I must say there is a certain irony in arguing for a full wipe, because you lost some assets..

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5 hours ago, Palad1n said:

Not everyone stays up to date on the forums, and like many, will be dormant for 3-6+ months at a time. 

 

To be dormant more than 3 month after a full wipe before release means they will again loose everything unless NQ changes the mechanic.

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On 4/14/2022 at 1:37 PM, Zarcata said:

How does a wipe fit with the statement that the beta is supposed to be a soft release along with the sales pitch? For me it is obvious that it is about false advertising and fraud, it certainly feels exactly like that. What does their legal department have to say about this?

 

This is a  typical example of someone who may have had major advantages / exploited economy and other game breaking bugs who simply does not care about the greater good of the actual game or its community. 

 

Use a little common sense and understand that NQ should never have made a statement of this being a "Soft Launch" as frankly put, this game is still considered my a large amount of players as being in "Alpha" and NOT Beta. 

 

What does Beta mean? It means that ALL main systems and core elements of the game are 100% locked in and all they are doing is finalizing bug testing, fixes, etc. 

 

Beta is NOT for going back to the drawing board

 

Beta is NOT for adding in major core systems and making massive game changers that effect the entire game on major levels

 

NQ is now finally realizing it royally screwed up and if they have any chance at all to save its community, a full wipe is 100% required.

 

That said, NQ needs to completely finish the game 1st, make final decisions on what core features they want in their game.

 

Do they keep the controversial schematics system that hindered so many players? 

 

Do they remove the schematics as there was nothing wrong with how the crafting system worked previously? 

 

Finalize their core game decisions, lock them in, and focus on completing 1.0 

 

Once this is all done, then, and only then, should they do a full wipe. 

 

The current way things are right now only benefits a very small amount of players and orgs that amassed major advantages over everyone else due to major bugs and a poorly thought out economy from day 1 of "early access". 

 

The right thing for them to do is wipe everything and put everyone on an even start once the game is fully 1.0 release candidate.  

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8 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

The "early access" time was supposed to be over when NQ said the game was now in "beta", and proclaimed the beta wipe would be the last full wipe so that they could soft-release and start charging subscriptions.

 

Some of the later (cost saving) changes to the game have been designed specifically so that you cannot leave for longer periods of time. This was a conscious decision made by NQ. Meaning that regardless of if you are paying a subscription or not, NQ decided they would hold your assets hostage and saying that you have to play regularly or else..  And as with most of the full wipe arguments, they are issues that a full wipe will not change anything about. And I must say there is a certain irony in arguing for a full wipe, because you lost some assets..

 

Typical response again, from the very small minority of players who doesn't care about the community or large amount of players who got screwed by NQ with this decision that they should never had made in the 1st place. 

 

lost some assets? LMFAO!  a large amount of players lost everything, not just "some" assets. A lot of players who supported this game from back in the early Alpha stage, like myself and many others, tend to play at various times and then come back every 3-6 months to see where development is. 

 

Regardless, you try to claim a full wipe will not fix certain things, but are unable or unwilling to expand upon that statement. Why is that? What specifically does a full wipe NOT fix or help address for the community? I would welcome your list of reasons why a full wipe would be non-beneficial vs the list of why it would, seeing as NQ as flat out produced solid reasons why a full wipe would in fact be very beneficial for its community. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Palad1n said:

myself and many others, tend to play at various times and then come back every 3-6 months to see where development is. 

and you and the ones you mentioned do constantly pay the sub ?

let me guess ... hmmm... NO !?¿

 

So don't blame others and call them exploiters while calling yourself to be an idealist - you're only looking for your own best cut.

 

Wipe okey. But with a proportional return-value which can be best measured with your talent points.

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Newbie here after my first 10 hours of play. In my opinion what all can be crafted by the base player is way to much. No need for me to buy it from market if I can build it all myself. I feel for the industrials. 

 

As for a schematics, I felt it was not clear what I needed to buy so ended up buying ones I could already craft. The cost of them was pricey and ate into my starter funds, so no spaceship. I do like them though as not everyone should be an industrialist to balance the economy. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Palad1n said:

Do they keep the controversial schematics system that hindered so many players? 

 

Do they remove the schematics as there was nothing wrong with how the crafting system worked previously? 

Pre 0.23 my small corp managed to build a large space station, JITA Trading Station, with the goal of making warp cores.  We were 2 days away from having a warp beacon go into its 30 days of cooking time when 0.23 hit.  All of a sudden, we needed schematics.  Ok, how much?  Just 840 MILLION quanta for a warp beacon schematic...  We were crushed.  Note that is the three main players saved up the 150,000 daily quota to buy that schematic it would have taken us over 5 years.  Believe they tweaked that price down, but really?  840 MILLION quanta to enable us to build the warp beacon we had been striving for since pre-beta launch?  I'm sure schematics to build all the required parts would have added up to something similar, if not much, much, more.  Likewise for all schematics required to allow us to keep our 24 warp core factories busy.  The group of us just gave up, and decided to wait for launch.

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15 hours ago, Palad1n said:

Regardless, you try to claim a full wipe will not fix certain things, but are unable or unwilling to expand upon that statement. Why is that? What specifically does a full wipe NOT fix or help address for the community? I would welcome your list of reasons why a full wipe would be non-beneficial vs the list of why it would, seeing as NQ as flat out produced solid reasons why a full wipe would in fact be very beneficial for its community.

 

I am not going to repeat myself, since by now I have made countless posts where I argument against different aspects of wipe and try to make rational explanations why.

 

And the entire reason why we now have this 40 page thread, is because the "internal discussion" blog from NQ was an obvious hit piece article were NQ try to sway players towards accepting a wipe using questionable logic and reasoning to try and justify it.

 

The short and simple version for all this, is that NQ make a clear promise that there would be no more full wipes and that players would keep assets after the beta soft-start wipe. So for NQ to even mention the possibility of full wipe and players losing asset, is at best dishonest.

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