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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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I'm up for a full wipe, as long as I can keep my constructs as blueprints.

However... If I made a ship or any static core (my factory) that I didn't make a core blueprint yet, it should be created automatically  before the wipe (for every player). I don't play so frequently and I don't want to miss the moment when wipe is done and log in when it's too late realizing that I didn't created most up-to-date blueprints of all my constructs I ever made.

After wipe, I'll most likely spawn those constructs once I get enough materials and elements.

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2 hours ago, Captain Hills said:

 

When they get rid of Schematics, energy distribution of some sort needs to be implemented anyways, not just for the drills but also for the Industry. We'll face a lot of "pending operations" otherwise.

 

I almost forgot that they were actually thinking about that...I really don't get how they think they have time for this.

 

They should be in a soft "feature freeze" where the next few months are 100% focused on bugs and performance. UI/UX would be welcomed too. 

 

Making more changes like taking out schematics will make performance an unknown again. 

 

Maybe that's fine, but the risk is that they inadvertently eradicate all the gains they've made by removing mining and new players will enjoy another ocean of "pending operations". 

 

With lower player counts....they might not see this as an issue until it is too late. 

 

I keep beating this same drum...because I don't want release to repeat the same mistakes as public beta's launch. It's their last chance to scale this game. If they think otherwise that's just pure hubris. 

 

It's like NQ really doesn't get the idea of beta at all. When they finally need it the most, they sabotage it by dragging their feet on this wipe nonsense while simultaneously toying with changes that can easily destabilize the game at scale. They'd be so much better off just ripping the bandaid off if that's what they are going to do.  

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1 hour ago, blundertwink said:

They should be in a soft "feature freeze" where the next few months are 100% focused on bugs and performance. UI/UX would be welcomed too.

No.

 

They need to make up their mind about wipe/launch and do that asap. I can live with an iffy server, we've done that through most of the beta. I cannot hang in Limbo for the next few months, because I'm not actually playing until wipe/launch. The further that date is into the future the less I'll be motivated to return to DU (and I'm not the only one). Not to mention my subscription is going POOF!(tm) by the month...

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6 minutes ago, Cergorach said:

No.

 

They need to make up their mind about wipe/launch and do that asap. I can live with an iffy server, we've done that through most of the beta. I cannot hang in Limbo for the next few months, because I'm not actually playing until wipe/launch. The further that date is into the future the less I'll be motivated to return to DU (and I'm not the only one). Not to mention my subscription is going POOF!(tm) by the month...

 

That's what I mean -- they need to do this and move on so that they can actually stabilize the game and get back to beta testing. Toying with the ideas of removing schematics or not before they do the wipe is immensely counter-productive and should be out of scope considering that they don't have unlimited time until release. 

 

All this should have been sorted weeks ago. 

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I've been a player since the beginning. If you do a full wipe you'll lose me. At this point, you need to decide which path is going to generate more revenue - do you listen to the guy who has been playing your game actively since the inception OR backers who have chosen to not play?

 

I don't care about schematics. If you need to delete all of the industries, that's fine as they can be easily rebuilt.

 

I somewhat don't care about quanta, but I'd like to keep some of it if only so that I am not back at zero. I know that NQ is concerned about trillionaires and their disruptive effects on the economy. Split the difference and pick an arbitrary number - $10 million? - for everyone to receive and then delete the rest from each player's account. Again, I don't want to start at zero.

 

I do care about my constructs. By this point in the game I have lots of complicated constructs with LOTS of different voxels and rare components. Re-manufacturing those items - even if I have the blueprints, will take forever. I know that some players in the past have gamed the system by dumping lots of valuable items on their ships/buildings, only to pull them off and sell them quickly post-wipe, but I see that as inevitable regardless of whether you wipe or not.

 

I do care about my skill points. I was supposed to get a leg up on new players by being an early backer. That was the whole point to being an earlier backer! Take those away and you're signaling that you want me to go through the grind again to get back where I am today. No thanks!

 

 

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6 hours ago, Ariunn said:

I'm up for a full wipe, as long as I can keep my constructs as blueprints.

However... If I made a ship or any static core (my factory) that I didn't make a core blueprint yet, it should be created automatically  before the wipe (for every player). I don't play so frequently and I don't want to miss the moment when wipe is done and log in when it's too late realizing that I didn't created most up-to-date blueprints of all my constructs I ever made.

After wipe, I'll most likely spawn those constructs once I get enough materials and elements.

Nope. That would create a disadvantage for a part of the community if people could keep 'partially' their stuff.
Full wipe or no wipe.

If NQ would follow your advice, they would create 'again" a missbalance in the community wealth.

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10 minutes ago, space_man said:

When's the wipe scheduled for, would really love to have some motivation to play again. Thanks!

 

Sometime between now and release, with a very slim possibility of "never" 🤷‍♂️

 

They haven't given any real information.

 

AFAIK they haven't posted a single update on where they are at in this mess of 850+ replies. 

 

I'm sure all this practice in "transparent" communication and community management will go over really well once the game releases. 

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Considering that DRM blueprints are way too simple with the permissions and giving the permission to make a bp from them to another player does not seem to work on older constructs, it would be unfair to do a wipe without offering an automatic blueprint for all owned constructs.  I have played in Alpha and all throughout Beta phase.   When I buy a ship that someone else made and make a lot of changes to it, I want to create a blueprint.  If the original owner is unable to give me permission to do so because it doesn't work or is no longer playing, that is wrong, and I won't take such a ship into PVP space and I am not sure if I will continue to play.  Please take permissions for constructs more seriously.

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Just  bringing the potential wipe on the table again is enough to instantly put me on a "pause" mode with DU. it just feels like i invested years of time on the single promise that there is persistence and a wipe would only occur if there is kind of a fatal problem that cannot be resolved otherwise, and even if a wipe would happen all progress and constructs could be taken over to the after wipe time..
so basically that was a lie (looking on all those options being discussed "internally" at NQ.)
- getting rid of schematics ==> do you know how much grind it was just to get there and obtain those schematics?
- the quanta i own was earned honestly. and yes that was another grind to get there, so why take it away? just because NQ did not react when some people took advantage. so let's punish all players instead.. no, does not sound very reasonable. i don't honestly care about the players that have "more". for all players except one, there will always be players that have more, so who really cares (except the new players joining and want to avoid the grind we all had)
- if you wipe  any of my quanta, exp, stuff, (without giving me all back via magic BPs, or the benefit of the grind by removing all schematics i see it as betrayal. will probably not return..
- even putting the long term players on an optional parallel DU is not an option.

what would be OK for me:
- planetary reset (all constructs as magic BP's)
- Ban of players that cheated before
- removing the requirement to own schematics for Tier 1-2 (or even Tier 3) items
- game play changes that do not in-valuate previous "grind"
- removal of all bot orders
- creating a new System with new planets and resources without the possibility to transport big amounts of mass there where different rules may be applied. maybe even having a new 2nd currency there, so you cannot bring your quanta with you.

So yes there are lots of options of adding new gameplay and mechanics even without having to betray all the beta players that spent an insane amount of time in game to get where they are today. But the 2 wipe options you described are not really satisfying in my position.

So please: reconsider

put your heads together again without just serving those people that scream wipe wipe in order to get an unfair advantage by purging a huge amount of time in grind for senior players who believed in past commitments that had been made by NQ.



 


 

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21 hours ago, blundertwink said:

AFAIK they haven't posted a single update on where they are at in this mess of 850+ replies. 

That is not true. There was an info a week ago.

 

Edited by Zarcata
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5 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

That is not true. There was an info a week ago.

 

Ah, thanks for the link! I missed it completely. 🤦‍♂️

 

I don't understand why this internal discussion is dragging on for so long personally, but at least there's sort of an update in all this noise.

 

You'd think the decision on wiping or not would take an afternoon -- the actual "discussion" that's ongoing is probably around how to implement it and how severe the wipe should be. Hopefully they finalize this soon and put an end to this madness :D 

 

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On 4/27/2022 at 11:41 PM, Jinxed said:

I really just don’t understand why miners and industry territory beacons, weapons AGGs, warp beacons don’t require fuel to run. 
They are perpetual engines. 
 

even NMS has better fuel and power management gameplay than this game, and that’s a casual minecraft like game. 

imagine if it actually required copious amounts of energy to keep everything running. Balanced correctly that would keep things in check far more than stupid taxes and keep consumption rates high. 
 

element maintenance requiring bolts, pipes and chambers etc should obviously be a thing. Every x hours a component on your ship needs one or more of the parts it’s made from replacing.  Leaving it unmaintained would cause it to degrade and eventually need replacing. 

 

the gameplay could be simple like repairing but instead of just scrap, it needs the actual parts in your active container.
 

Or it could be more involved like swapping the parts with working parts (using a new swap tool) and taking the broken parts to a dedicated service station 

even these alone would ensure greater need for parts and services. 

 

 

 

The concept of power would be great. Space Engineers model would be simple and effective.

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On 4/28/2022 at 8:41 AM, Jinxed said:

I really just don’t understand why miners and industry territory beacons, weapons AGGs, warp beacons don’t require fuel to run. 
They are perpetual engines. 

Why should the warp beacon have a consumption in itself? The consumption is created by the warp drive and the warp cells. Especially since the warp beacon itself is already a considerable expense in terms of production.
The AGG doesn't necessarily need consumption either, there the consumption is the own time to reach the heights with it.

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On 4/16/2022 at 1:51 PM, blazemonger said:

That is not an argument here, it never was. ANd yes, I am pretty sure NQ knows that as they have not made that claim or floated that idea.

 

It's something some players have come up with, mostly because they simply have no idea about how the talent tree works and hwo their assumption is just nonsense.


 

  

Except no one is doing that, whether they wipe or not

Oh, yes. NQ said exactly that. It's point 3 on the "SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION" - posting from NQ-Wanderer, that this whole discussion-thread is all about.

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2 hours ago, Neryman said:

Oh, yes. NQ said exactly that. It's point 3 on the "SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION" - posting from NQ-Wanderer, that this whole discussion-thread is all about.

 

The relevant point reads:
 

Quote
  • As you, our current experienced players, will have quite an advantage compared to the new players on many levels (game knowledge, talent points, wealth, constructs already owned), there's a need to make things a bit more balanced to give a fighting chance to the wave of new players that will join the Community later.

 

And yes, they mention talent points as part of the advantage veteran/experienced players have, sure. Your interpretation here is something I do not agree with at all and the general notion that  new players have an unsurmountable disadvntage over those who have been playing for longer is factually incorrect and easily proven worng.


Of course, having accrued more talentpoints is an advantage. But the way the talent system is designed (which is pretty much direcly lifted from EVE), that advantage actually get's less important very quickly and I have explained that several time now. Bottom line is that a new player will catch up to about 80% of the level a player who has been training for two year is at in about 5 months, as a new player trains several talents to L4 while  the more experienced player will train level5 of a single talent. ANd 5 months in a game like DU is really not all that long.

After some time, talents that are trained will be the ones with higher multipliers. Each talent has a base of 600,3000,15000,75000 and 375000 point respectively with a multiplier ranging from x1 to I believe x15 currently.

 

As you see from the above, the way talents work is that for the talent to be trained 100%, you spend 20% of the time needed to get to level 4 and then 80% for the 5th level. And a 2 year old player would generally be training talents with x5 multipliers and up, so the new player will be able to train their x1-x4 levels at a considerably faster rate relative to the time the tenured player trains L5 levels at x5 and up.
 

So no, talent points are not  a massive barrier for new players and so no, it really can't be used as an argument in this discussion.

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I only watch this from the sidelines as I don't play the game anymore. But based on what a part of the community want I really hope that NQ does not do a wipe.

Because that will ruin the game completely. And maybe the Mincraft and Landmark players will finally understand that their playstyle is not sustainable for a game like DU.

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7 hours ago, Zarcata said:

Why should the warp beacon have a consumption in itself? The consumption is created by the warp drive and the warp cells. Especially since the warp beacon itself is already a considerable expense in terms of production.
The AGG doesn't necessarily need consumption either, there the consumption is the own time to reach the heights with it.

 

One word:
Gameplay.

 

There is not enough consumption in this game. Not enough by far.  

 

Alson not sure at all what you mean here: "the consumption is the own time to reach the heights."

IMHO, powerful items that provide powerful benefits should have some cost beyond mere acquisition.

 

Things such as maintenance, upkeep, deterioration... heck, even a lifespan that depends upon damage, maintenance or use history otherwise once everyone has one of everything, the game is basically over.
 

 

3 hours ago, PleiJades said:

...Based on what a part of the community want I really hope that NQ does not do a wipe.

Because that will ruin the game completely. And maybe the Mincraft and Landmark players will finally understand that their playstyle is not sustainable for a game like DU.

 


Not entirely certain what point you're making here... On the flip side, are you saying that if NQ don't wipe, builders will never understand that their playstyle is not sustainable?
Heck, even rephrasing it I don't even know what I just asked.
 

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2 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Things such as maintenance, upkeep, deterioration... heck, even a lifespan that depends upon damage, maintenance or use history otherwise once everyone has one of everything, the game is basically over.

This would only be true if you were only ever in the safe zone. As soon as you enter the PvP area, you can lose everything immediately and then you are left without anything. Unless you have already built and financed a replacement ship.
 

2 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Alson not sure at all what you mean here: "the consumption is the own time to reach the heights."

Have you ever used an AGG yourself?
You can easily earn ores for fuel within a few minutes. In the case of the AGG drive, you can steer the ship, but this takes a lot of time that you could also use to collect fuel.


 

2 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Things such as maintenance, upkeep, deterioration... heck,

How good this compulsory content is, to have to work on something in order to finally be allowed to play afterwards, can be seen in the tax or the calibration mechanism with the MiningUnits. Do players really want even more compulsory content before they can play?
What does a game night look like then?
- First calibrate, then repair all the machines or supply them with energy, then maintain the spaceship, maybe protect the building voxels with an anti-decay coating? Then fly 1-2 missions so that you can pay the taxes and then finally play what you want - or go offline because you don't have the time to play.

The game doesn't need more obligations that you have to work through, but rather game content that is fun, whether solo or as a group. I don't want to have a second job in the evening after work, I want to relax in a game and experience something. 

A good relationship between playing and doing something must be created in order to be able to play. At the moment, however, you need a lot more time to have to do something in order to be able to play.

 

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EN/FR

GOOGLE TRAD. 

 

Hello,

It is very interesting to read you, whether it is the pros, the cons, the undecided and the others.

But...
We're no further ahead until Novaquark has decided.

Now is high time for an answer (which will upset some anyway).

Thanks,

 

-*-*-*

 

Bonjour,

Il est très intéressant de vous lire, que ce soit les pour, les contre, les indécis et les autres. 

Mais...
Nous ne sommes pas plus avancés tant que Novaquark n'aura pas tranché. 

Il est maintenant grand temps d'avoir une réponse (qui de toute façon en mécontentera certains). 

Merci, 

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when the full wipe actually comes. and I put all my gaming time into the game for nothing. and I lose everything because of it. all my subscriptions will be cancelled. and deleted the game from the computer.
for me alone it's 5 subscriptions. and my friends are no different.

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Yesterday, in a personal conversation with a friend, I had his perspective on a wipe explained to me. He's one of those guys who spent a lot of time and effort making billions just to be able to afford schematics and built a big industry with it. I assume the perspective of this part of the player base is already sufficiently represented in this thread.

 

During the conversation however, it also became obvious that our playing style and ingame goals are so fundamentally different from each other that we simply couldn't find common ground despite mutual appreciation.

 

Well, the current state of affairs is, we - the players - disagree regarding a wipe. Therefore, we won‘t dissuade NQ from the - obviously already preconceived - decision to carry it out. So they will do it, because we don’t speak with one voice and it's the easiest way to solve their problems.

 

Everything we write here, meanwhile serves NQ only as a think-tank about which case constellations can occur during the wipe and maybe should be taken into account. It’s only about how much the already decided wipe will „hurt“ us and where ist our pain threshold. It's sad, but any „discussion“ seems in vain.

 

Having said this, I just would like to offer my point of view to be added the wide bouquet of opinions expressed here. And I’d like to focus on what is valuable to players like me.

 

I originally started the game to become a shipbuilder. I wanted to create and own many different ships. Quite fast I realized that there are way more competent and above all, more creative creators out there. So my focus shifted to becoming a collector.

 

I am a collector now. Still small, but growing. I don't have any industry, I just have the raw materials I need to set up the next constructs I bought. I'm not interested in squeezing the last half percent of resources out of my auto-miners. I don’t do pvp. I have next to no blueprints of my own. In terms of industry and storage I only have an S-Core with a few refineries + and facilities for honeycombs.

 

I buy things that I like from some genius creators (which I litterally adore for their art) and put those things in a showroom (...which I've also only bought from one of my creator heroes). I don't even want to fly the constructs. I just want to own them.

In short: I'm an allotment gardener with a pretty lawn full of garden gnomes and I’m happy with it.

 

But that also means: I have no DRM rights to any of these things. I can't create blueprints of it. That stuff will be gone in a wipe. So my most prized possessions are the few hundred million quantas I've saved (don't laugh) and I spend them almost exclusively on finding and buying new, beautiful constructs.

 

Attention trigger warning:

If I had to choose between my assets and my skill points, I would choose my assets+quantas.

 

Put away the forks and torches. It’s just a single, aditional minor-opinion to round out the picture for NQ.

Edited by Neryman
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It's not really important what a player thinks is most important to keep (quanta, talent points, schematics, constructs whatever).

The important part is that players have been spending time and money playing the game, with assurances from NQ that their efforts would not be in vain.

 

And the only exception NQ made, was that they had to show us a clear and irrefutable technical reason forcing them to perform any kind of wipe. And even then they assured us that they would do their very best to make sure players would not lose resources in such a wipe.

 

So if players lose any of their resources after a wipe and NQ cannot even be bothered to demonstrate a clear irrefutable reason for wiping, why should players trust NQ to not break any more promises and do the same in the future also?

 

And any argument about re-balancing the game because of exploits is totally irrelevant for a wipe discussion, since there should NEVER be a need to wipe the game for all players just to fix exploits PERIOD.

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