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SAVE THE DATE: ATHENA ON PTS MARCH 31ST - discussion thread


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3 hours ago, blundertwink said:

I wouldn't dismiss the issue of tile proximity to a market so simply -- the game will face a permanent wipe if this release doesn't go well, and release won't go well if new players give up!

 

Last time (public beta launch), a lot of people gave up and couldn't even escape the "speeder phase". That was obvious based on market clutter. You can tell them that being near a market is an "end game privilege", but that means DU's FTUE will never be good enough to retain a huge slice of new players. 

 

Their new player experience will be vacuuming rocks, long speeder trips back and forth to the market as they figure out the game, and waiting around for mining units to spit out ore.

 

Yes, some people thrive in a sandbox with little or no direction...but this isn't a niche indie space game, it's an MMO that needs 10s of thousands of subscriptions to remain online. It will not work if new players can't get engaged. 

 

People are focusing on the wipe as if that's the most important thing for this game's health, but I don't see why it's so important (except that existing players obviously don't want to lose their work when they expected to keep it which is fair). 

 

FTUE is the most important thing for this game's health and people have little to say about it.

 

FTUE is what will make or break this game, so I'm very curious to see exactly how this will change with Athena. 

 

i put in bold what i think needs to be addressed,

 

i disagree heavily with this "FTUE will make or break the game", FTUE is a nice bonus to help out new players, and if they wanted to make an entirely new player focused update, i would like NQ to put out ideas, but that wouldn't help the game.

New players are only in the new player state for so long and once they pass that stage, if the content is lackluster, then they just leave the game.

 

we need direction for mid-endgame players, this is exactly what Athena is bringing, which is what im excited for.

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15 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

Hi Noveans,

 

First thank you everyone for your feedback about the Athena PTS Announcement. We saw a lot of questions and concerns raised, and we will try to adress them as much as possible in the coming days. We want to bring some clarification already to some of the topics mentioned in this forum thread:

 

@fridaywitch

@Thunderblaze

@PotatoMart

You caught onto the word “wipe” that was in the announcement. Please know that:

  • As of today, there has not been a decision made about a server reset also known as a wipe. It is something that we are aware of that has been causing very heated player discussions and when we have more information about this topic, it will definitely be passed along to everyone as soon as we can. 
     
  • Nothing more has been said than what has been already mentioned on Discord earlier this year - that we were discussing the topic internally - so this is just a follow-up of what has been already said (and makes the thing more official), with the addition that the team will come to a conclusion soon. At some point, we need to address the Elephant in the room.
     
  • We are also aware that it has been a recurring question since Beta Launch, and though we weren't able to give a proper answer on that topic for a very long time, the wait is going to come to an end. A lot of options have been discussed. The final decision will not be made on a whim, the team will be taking into consideration and pondering carefully all factors and sides to the topic. More info on that in the coming weeks to enter into the details. If we don't give details right now, it's because the discussions are still in progress and it's a bit too soon to confirm anything.
     
  • We understand that some of you may feel as if we were not caring or being direspectful towards you, our players. However, if we do communicate on this sensible topic ahead of the official release, it's precisely because we do care about the Community and your feedback. What could have been disrespectful would be to announce the decisions one or two weeks before Official Release, giving no time for you to express your feedback. In our opinion, you deserve to know what are the ongoing topics currently discussed internally at Novaquark (even though we can't share the details yet). At least, you know which topics are coming on the table soon (or which ones are already on the table).
     
  • Some of you may also feel that we're not communicating enough, or maintaining a "deafening silence". Please keep in mind we promised to have better communication and better transparency with the Community. We are currently communicating what we can communicate right now. Not answering on the spot, right after the announcement, is not a sign of ignoring the Community. It may require gathering feedback first, discussing it with the team, before being able to give a proper answer. Replying in the 24/48 hours is usually a common time window. We also completely understand that it may seem frustrating right now to not have more details and we ask you for just a bit more patience. 
     
  • Please keep also in mind that we do value your support and the time you invested in Dual Universe so far, and no matter which decision the team will make in the future, we take this part seriously into account in the decision making process, so you won't start from zero even in the most drastic scenarios considered.

@CptLoRes

@blundertwink

About “this is all we get for the final game”:

  • Please understand that if Athena is the last major update before Official Release, it doesn’t mean it’s the last update before Official Release, we may have one or more smaller updates before official release, having less content, but content that could really improve the game and/or the user experience a lot.
     
  • Official Release doesn’t mean “the final game” at all. The roadmap will continue after the official release and many more updates are planned. 

 

We hope this clarifies a bit the Novaquark team's stance on those topics.

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

 

While not the desired answer, that's something -- Thank you for responding with what your team could provide!

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5 hours ago, Taelessael said:

 

  • Stasis weapons are used to reduce the maximum velocity of targeted ships, a measure towards bringing better balance to PvP. Big armored ships with powerful space engines will no longer have the advantage that allowed them to easily escape more agile smaller designs.

I appreciate you listening to the community on this, it will help bring some much needed complexity to pvp.

  • We are also altering the behavior around a construct’s maximum speed. Constructs’ mass will now impact their speed; the heavier the ship, the less its maximum speed will be. Thus, smaller ships will be able to catch up bigger ones despite the latter having bigger engines than the former.

Barring a truly absurd speed-mass line (like stopping 1kt or heavier ships from exceeding 20kkph) this seems near pointless. Most of the M and L cores I've seen for pvp were effectively fly-weight given the sizes of their cores. The ships it sounded like this was meant to nerf have this bad habit of functionally being 4-10 engines with a fuel tank, a shield, guns, and a control chair, so they tend to be lighter than they stuff they are out-accelerating anyways.

 

Sure, it will help pirates catch haulers out in deep space without needing those haulers to be in a warp-pipe, but it wasn't exactly something they needed help in or that will improve their returns by much. Not being spotted has always been a far more effective way to avoid pirates than hitting top speed.

 

You'd probably solve the issue more effectively (and in a way that brakes science-immersion less) by capping top speed to shield-size.

 

 

Unfortunately, no, M core constructs do not have a smaller cross-section. There is no minimum size mechanic for cores, hence why people keep seeing M or L cores on their radar when they get attacked, but if they get a good look at their attackers they realize most of 'em would fit on an S core and only have M or L to get at the weapons. Capping shields to core size (without other changes) will just result in M weapons and an L shield on an L core that would fit in to an S space. They probably need to add in a power/heat mechanic if they want to try an bump up cross-sections, using it to get people to put big solar-panels/radiators on a ship's exterior as would be appropriate to handle their giant engines/shields/weapons.

 

 

Amusingly enough, the maximum speed of a thruster's exhaust in real life does not determine that thruster's top speed, only the speed at which it can accelerate. The explosion propelling the thruster is not a fixed point in space, but rather a physical thing with mass that is itself moving while it pushes the associated thruster forward. Its essentially like the "throwing a ball while standing an the bed of a moving truck" thing, except your thrusters are (hopefully) accelerating for longer than just the second it takes someone to throw a ball.

I was once for shield size capping, but this made me change, Tael makes perfect sense here, and that's also why ship power management is going to be crucial for NQ to consider, but i will say stay Far away from power management for industries, it is way to complex now as it is for industry setup/maintenance.

 

it would be very welcomed to have an S core meta or even balanced use of core sizes for PVP, that is what is going to bring many different possibilities to PVP compared to what we have now.

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25 minutes ago, ELX987 said:

i disagree heavily with this "FTUE will make or break the game", FTUE is a nice bonus to help out new players, and if they wanted to make an entirely new player focused update, i would like NQ to put out ideas, but that wouldn't help the game.

 

I think you underestimate the importance of the FTUE, which is not just the introduction and tutorials. It is what either draws the player into the game if it's good or makes them lose interest and leave if it's not.

 

The FTUE being good is vital to the success of DU

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4 hours ago, blundertwink said:

FTUE is what will make or break this game

So what, we wipe every month so everyone has equal access to a market spot?  Where does that rabbit hole end?  How far ahead can an organization get after launch before they need to wipe again to let new players have a fair chance?  By this metric, you might as well play sea of thieves and get a clean map and a shiny new boat every time you log in.   Sorry, but new players shouldn't get prime real estate. It's just not a thing. 

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12 hours ago, ELX987 said:

New players are only in the new player state for so long and once they pass that stage, if the content is lackluster, then they just leave the game.

 

They don't "get past that stage" automatically, they need to be motivated enough in the early game to actually get there. 

 

If they quit at a (remotely) similar rate as public beta, there's simply no future for this game. No point at all in a mid/late game if only the minority get there...with the last launch, very few did.

 

Mid/late game is what the current player-base needs, but it won't help them on release if 50% of players can't get past the early game.

 

That ocean of abandoned speeders was just an annoyance for beta...it can't repeat itself in release, because it represents extremely high churn at the first stages of the game. 

 

10 hours ago, FerroSC said:

So what, we wipe every month so everyone has equal access to a market spot?

 

No, I'm just stating that FTUE is still problematic -- and that if they wipe or not isn't nearly as big a deal as new players coming into the game and rapidly quitting. 

 

I'm not saying that they need "prime real estate" necessarily, I'm saying that market access is fundamental for new players to engage with the game. 

 

If you force them to travel long distances over and over, you can drive their engagement into the ground along with the viability of the game in general. And that's just one facet of FTUE that needs improvement, so I really hope Athena does a lot here. 

 

5 hours ago, RugesV said:

New players should get prime realistate from territory warfare.

 

I agree, but that isn't a thing and has no ETA...and may never arrive if NQ can't get enough new players to convert permanently to subscribers.

 

I get that most people have been playing the beta for a long time and their experiences are shaped by that...but this is an MMO that needs to greatly expand the subscriber-base to remain online.

 

The people still left around here aren't the typical new player and if NQ forgets that it will be a painful few months post-release as churn rates drive the game's sustainability into the ground. 

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13 hours ago, FerroSC said:

So what, we wipe every month so everyone has equal access to a market spot?  

How does this relate to a comment about FTUE ?

 

  

2 hours ago, blundertwink said:

No, I'm just stating that FTUE is still problematic

Problem is that some seem to not really understand what FTUE is and how it affects new players in a game, specially an MMO.

 

If CCP spends more money on research and updates of just the EVE FTUE than NQ has ever seen and still loses 90% of new players within 90 days, you get an idea why this is so vital.

FTUE is not just a tutorial or a first impression, it is what the new player experiences when they first enter the game. How often have you started a new game and after a minute or two you just give up.. or you find that you get dragged along for so long you lose interest. And both of these mistakes apply to the current FTUE in DU.

I do not really see how NQ can create a truly inspiring FTUE which will draw players in to a point where they can be let go and be on their way, feeling confident of what they need to start doing. That will be insanely hard for NQ to pull off, simply because of the very limited tools they have in game to make that happen.

And on top of that, I expect NQ is certainly part of the group I mentioned previously, the group that does not really understand what a FTUE is and what it  should achieve.

I'm most likely away the weekend of PTS and so probably can't have a look at what NQ has come up with for the new FTUE.. But I expect it will not be that different from the current one with a lot of button-clicking, reading, listening in the same old dull and unimaginative UI/UX and very little actual interaction with the game or other entities.

 

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21 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Problem is that some seem to not really understand what FTUE is and how it affects new players in a game, specially an MMO.

 

There's also some survivor's bias in trying to understand what's important to the game through the lens of beta players that are still here.

 

Everyone that's left here didn't have an issue with FTUE...but the legions of abandoned speeders and gradual loss of players in the months after beta launched tell a more dire story. 

 

Mentioning CCP's 90 day window is important context. At $9.99/month, you need them to stay for more than just 1 month...especially if you acquired the user from paid ads.

 

If 1/10 people convert from a click (which is very good) that means a $1 CPC will only break even on month 1...and the average CPC for online games is more than $1.

 

Any dip in conversion rate or increase in CPC could turn ROI negative. Similar math for CPM...it's a competitive space. 

 

If too many people bail after one month of subscription, that substantially limits NQ's ability to compete in the ad space and grow the game since they don't see any real profit until month 2. 

 

Hence why FTUE is so vital...if they bail after 3 months, so be it. Bailing after one billing cycle? That would drastically limit their ability to market the game. 

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The First time user experience needs to be functional.  It needs to introduce new players to all the things they can do in the game.  But beyond that, what you do in a game like this is too open ended for anyone to have a chance to appreciate even a small percentage of what the game has to offer from a tutorial.

What's going to inspire/drive new players to sink their teeth into the game like this, is seeing a thriving community of players enjoying the game.

 

This game has a lot more to offer then it appears to on the surface.  Sure you can slap a few elements on a core, and make it fly, but for some people, the potential of the game may not occur to them, until they see someone fly by in a giant banana, or a replica of their favorite Star Wars ship.

 

Nothing is going to promote this game better than the imagination and creativity of the people who enjoy it.

 

This game will always have a steep learning curve, it's as much as asset as it is a liability.

 

The FTUE can help players get over the learning curve, but there has to be something on the other side, to motivate them to get over it too.

 

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FTUE is of course an critical matter, but to provide a good First Time User Experience you shall be able to provide a good User Experience.

 

The game at this stage is a nice looking cheap minecraft-like mmo.

 

And yes you can make nice looking buildings, compounds and cities, some cool looking ship eventually, but not too big ! Otherwise you have to make some wizardry.

 

But then what ?

 

The economy is non-existent, missions and ore paid by bots.

A PVP that have the level of interaction of a browser game.

Crafting more about not getting headaches about your hundred links than any kind of skill.

Mining about having a life empty enough to enjoy the repetitive process of a cheap clicker game.

Absence of any kind of social interaction directly in game, didn't planned to play to Discord Universe when I joined (Starting by for example, In game mails ???)

 

Wiping or not is clearly not the issue here, this game ain't fun, being able to build something using voxels doesn't make your game a Sandbox, even less a "Metaverse" as the current CEO qualifies this game.

 

Start by implementing basic core MMO features, even if it's nice to come up with new and fresh ideas, MMO are a thing for over 25 years now, and it seems that some designers must have missed that part.

 

I played (and paid) a year of the game, only too see the game getting constantly worse unfortunately, to my disappointment. If it had been officially released I would have gone away much earlier though.

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You all make some great points here and I wholeheartedly agree that newplayer retention is extremely important. A new FTUE will certainly help with the onboarding process but I think one of the often overlooked aspects is that travel time blundertwink mentioned or really any time the player is not actively engaged. For context, these are some of the comments I regularly hear from newer players:

  • "I crashed my speeder and had to walk 40km to get a new one."
  • "I wanted to join up with my buddies but they were already on a different planet."
  • "My first day was spent afk waiting for talents to train so I could get into industry."
  • "It took me a week to afford one of the market ships so I could leave Alioth"
  • "I lost my first ship while landing on another planet, respawned on Alioth and have no way to get back to it"

The initial barrier to entry is high and often leads to time spent waiting around. There is a balance here, access to content needs to be gated to prevent player burnout but it also can't be spaced out to the point where they have nothing to do but wait. Maybe, consider another tier of elements below basic. Make it absolute garbage but quick and easy to craft/obtain. This would at least let new players participate in their desired profession (construction, piloting, industry, pvp, etc) without having to wait hours/days for skills or quanta.

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2 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

The FTUE can help players get over the learning curve, but there has to be something on the other side, to motivate them to get over it too.


 

It lacks interesting content especially for the beginning, just getting to know the game, exploring a bit like in many games then the typical lvl progression, skill points to improve the character, get stronger, chase a story and be part of it....
the tutorial itself is rather daunting due to its scope, purely in terms of time already, as well as the startpostion, which so far has been extremely crowded and with all sorts of constructs like spam is scary.

 

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This whole wipe/no wipe thing is just absurd, and fundamentally seems to revolve around a few things:


1) New players trying to get good hexes.

-If you are here to champion having a monthly wipe so new players always have access to market-side hexes and t5 hexes and the like, please say so. For the rest of you, please explain to me how having just 1 more wipe is going to allow new players access to the best hexes after people have a month or two to claim them all again.

 

Everyone can see where the markets are, if someone wants to claim a market-adjacent tile, they don't need to scan it don't, they'll just take it. 

 

I can solo-run 19 scanners at a time off an S core quite easily. Setup, scan, takedown, move to the next area to scan, all in less than 30 mins per cycle. I am not any sort of scan-maniac, I play with guys that pull twice as many scans as I do in the same amount of time, and my org would gladly make good use of teamwork get us all those scanners asap. People won't claim all the best ore-tiles instantly, but give it a couple months and DU will be right back to where it is now for claimed hexes.

 

2) New players trying to compete in manufacturing.

-If you are here to champion having a monthly wipe so new players always have the ability to compete in industry with their ability to manufacture things, please say so. For the rest of you, please explain to me how having just 1 more wipe is going to allow new players to compete in the market a month and a half after the wipe when some org's industrial-guys have gone and collectively maxed their industrial skills again while their non-indy guys have gone and amassed the wealth to rebuild their mega-factory.

 

3) New players trying to compete with money/resources.

-If you are here to champion having a weekly wipe so new players always have the ability to compete in the market with their available resources, please say so. For the rest of you, please explain how a new player will be able to compete monetarily a day after the wipe when an org of old players have used their pre-existing knowledge of the game's mechanics to blow through the tutorials to collect all the money there, then combined it all to slap together a factory for territory scanners, claim/mining units, and group mission-haulers? 

 

 

I was on Symeon 4 hours after beta was live (delayed by download speed), while new people were still trying to get the hang of stopping their speeder without crashing on Alioth. My org was making hauling runs between the different planets on day 2 while the new players were still trying to get their constructs to fly. This isn't WoW, the learning curve will cripple a new guy's ability to compete with old players no matter how often you wipe. It may technically take a few months to max certain skills, but it isn't hard for experienced players working together to divide the work when trying to get something done. And while it will take solo players a bit to get back to where they are now, this is an MMO, and there are in fact large groups of people out there that trust and cooperate with each other, and they will always out-pace all the new guys.

 

...

 

Oh, and...
4) Old players with exploit-money.

NQ should have done something about this a while ago back when they were dealing with said exploits, but now its had too much time to get distributed. That said, if you seriously think we need to nuke the entire universe and take out all the non-exploiter's stuff alongside the exploiter's stuff to get rid of some extra cash... Well, that debate tends to circle around to point 3 above, so I'm just going to point you back to it. We'll lose old players if the game wipes, people don't like getting punished for someone else's transgressions, especially if they didn't actually have a way to prevent the transgressor from doing what they did. But in spite of that we wont lose all the old players, someone will still have more money than the new guys, and someone will still be upset that conservation of ninjutsu doesn't apply in a way that lets their new solo-ness effectively compete with a large old org.

 

 

 

Fair's a place where you get cotton-candy. DU's a place where limitless extractable resources, lots of cooperation, and time lets your org buy a moon while all the solos, casuals, and newbs wonder how you ever got that kind of money. If you really want to help the new guys, figure out how to improve the FTUE in a way that doesn't risk giving the game a reputation for pressing the reset button like a child flipping the game-board because they were losing. "Hard" is already enough to turn off a fair number of people in this age of "easy-is-too-hard gamers". "Randomly deletes all your work" is not something a game that wants to attract people should be known for.

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Release. Push beta keys to sub. Spend money now on FTUE, without them we die, no matter our salt. The primary FTUE was come build at this cool single shard MMo experience have a free key.

 

Nerfing the existing userbase progress will kill the game. Everyone knows someday the time comes yea gotta decide what keys to run as subs. The money is there. Folks like skins and DLC. We are ready to pay. I will pay for gold large stabs pls. Chop Chop. Take my money. Over and over. Here it is.

 

I'm prepaid, what I say has no meaning from me, I get what I get, I have no leverage with "i'll quit" arguments. If things go well I would add two more accounts to my several existing prepaid subs. 

 

 

 

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My FTU was so bad 8 Month ago, i wanted to quit, but got help from the communinity, and im still here.

 

It took me over 6 hours to complete the long tutorial. Especially the voxel tutorial is rather confusing for beginners.
And then you need concrete to build the house and there is nothing to buy on sanctuary.
I hope today's tutorial looks different.

 

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6 hours ago, Taelessael said:

This whole wipe/no wipe thing is just absurd, and fundamentally seems to revolve around a few things:


1) New players trying to get good hexes.

-If you are here to champion having a monthly wipe so new players always have access to market-side hexes and t5 hexes and the like, please say so. For the rest of you, please explain to me how having just 1 more wipe is going to allow new players access to the best hexes after people have a month or two to claim them all again.

 

Everyone can see where the markets are, if someone wants to claim a market-adjacent tile, they don't need to scan it don't, they'll just take it. 

 

I can solo-run 19 scanners at a time off an S core quite easily. Setup, scan, takedown, move to the next area to scan, all in less than 30 mins per cycle. I am not any sort of scan-maniac, I play with guys that pull twice as many scans as I do in the same amount of time, and my org would gladly make good use of teamwork get us all those scanners asap. People won't claim all the best ore-tiles instantly, but give it a couple months and DU will be right back to where it is now for claimed hexes.

 

2) New players trying to compete in manufacturing.

-If you are here to champion having a monthly wipe so new players always have the ability to compete in industry with their ability to manufacture things, please say so. For the rest of you, please explain to me how having just 1 more wipe is going to allow new players to compete in the market a month and a half after the wipe when some org's industrial-guys have gone and collectively maxed their industrial skills again while their non-indy guys have gone and amassed the wealth to rebuild their mega-factory.

 

3) New players trying to compete with money/resources.

-If you are here to champion having a weekly wipe so new players always have the ability to compete in the market with their available resources, please say so. For the rest of you, please explain how a new player will be able to compete monetarily a day after the wipe when an org of old players have used their pre-existing knowledge of the game's mechanics to blow through the tutorials to collect all the money there, then combined it all to slap together a factory for territory scanners, claim/mining units, and group mission-haulers? 

 

 

I was on Symeon 4 hours after beta was live (delayed by download speed), while new people were still trying to get the hang of stopping their speeder without crashing on Alioth. My org was making hauling runs between the different planets on day 2 while the new players were still trying to get their constructs to fly. This isn't WoW, the learning curve will cripple a new guy's ability to compete with old players no matter how often you wipe. It may technically take a few months to max certain skills, but it isn't hard for experienced players working together to divide the work when trying to get something done. And while it will take solo players a bit to get back to where they are now, this is an MMO, and there are in fact large groups of people out there that trust and cooperate with each other, and they will always out-pace all the new guys.

 

...

 

Oh, and...
4) Old players with exploit-money.

NQ should have done something about this a while ago back when they were dealing with said exploits, but now its had too much time to get distributed. That said, if you seriously think we need to nuke the entire universe and take out all the non-exploiter's stuff alongside the exploiter's stuff to get rid of some extra cash... Well, that debate tends to circle around to point 3 above, so I'm just going to point you back to it. We'll lose old players if the game wipes, people don't like getting punished for someone else's transgressions, especially if they didn't actually have a way to prevent the transgressor from doing what they did. But in spite of that we wont lose all the old players, someone will still have more money than the new guys, and someone will still be upset that conservation of ninjutsu doesn't apply in a way that lets their new solo-ness effectively compete with a large old org.

 

 

 

Fair's a place where you get cotton-candy. DU's a place where limitless extractable resources, lots of cooperation, and time lets your org buy a moon while all the solos, casuals, and newbs wonder how you ever got that kind of money. If you really want to help the new guys, figure out how to improve the FTUE in a way that doesn't risk giving the game a reputation for pressing the reset button like a child flipping the game-board because they were losing. "Hard" is already enough to turn off a fair number of people in this age of "easy-is-too-hard gamers". "Randomly deletes all your work" is not something a game that wants to attract people should be known for.

You're completely delusional if you think it requires teamwork to buy a moon. Maybe to put down the TUs without going insane, but to actually fund buying a moon takes a single person and 20 alt accounts. No teamwork required.

 

That is why the game needs wiped. Missions need fixed, and the absurd wealth generated from them needs to be removed for the integrity of the game. Nerfing missions only closes the door behind established players who generated 10s of billions using them, with no path to ever achieve the same.

 

A year or two from now, I have zero interest in playing a game where the market is still completely dominated by a handful of people from beta who have effectively unlimited resources.

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1 hour ago, Nayropux said:

You're completely delusional if you think it requires teamwork to buy a moon. Maybe to put down the TUs without going insane, but to actually fund buying a moon takes a single person and 20 alt accounts. No teamwork required...

Please explain how a single wipe will stop someone from having 20 alt accounts.

 

Also, I appreciate that you are so in to solo/small org so hard as to believe that larger orgs can only be just a few guys and their army of alts, but 20 actual people aren't that hard to get in one org (one of my orgs has more officers than that, never mind the rank-and-file guys, and we are far from the biggest), and 20 actual competent people will handily out-perform 1 guy with 20 alts. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Nayropux said:

...Missions need fixed, and the absurd wealth generated from them needs to be removed for the integrity of the game...

Procedural generation to prevent alt-mission-stacking would be nice in that it would get all the "missions are OP" people to find something new to complain about, but someone (or some org) will always have more money than everyone else (more or less like I already said in point 4), and nothing short of entirely removing money and resources from the game will change that for more than a few minutes.

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3 hours ago, Taelessael said:

Please explain how a single wipe will stop someone from having 20 alt accounts.

If that wipe coincides with the deactivation of beta accounts and activation of DAC it would certainly have that effect in many cases. And franklly, i believe this exact reason to ba a big factor in the decision NQ will have made by now.

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Besides being strongly biased, we as players simply lack the required information to make this wipe/no-wipe call.

  • What does the current wealth distribution look like? What is it suppose to look like given current sources/sinks?
  • How much does a newcomer's "perceived setback" influence their decision to subscribe to DU? What do they perceive?

The list goes on but NQ has this data and much more via their statistical tools and player survey responses. While we speculate and place our bets, they are doing the actual analysis. Rather than continue to waste time on the wipe debate, lets leave it to NQ and instead focus on Athena feedback.

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2 hours ago, Msoul said:

Besides being strongly biased, we as players simply lack the required information to make this wipe/no-wipe call.

  • What does the current wealth distribution look like? What is it suppose to look like given current sources/sinks?
  • How much does a newcomer's "perceived setback" influence their decision to subscribe to DU? What do they perceive?

The list goes on but NQ has this data and much more via their statistical tools and player survey responses. While we speculate and place our bets, they are doing the actual analysis. Rather than continue to waste time on the wipe debate, lets leave it to NQ and instead focus on Athena feedback.

 

Please don't make NQ look at data. Last time they did that, we got version 1 of the construct count changes. :P

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7 hours ago, blazemonger said:

If that wipe coincides with the deactivation of beta accounts and activation of DAC it would certainly have that effect in many cases. And franklly, i believe this exact reason to ba a big factor in the decision NQ will have made by now.

You really seriously think that out of all the people that were willing to fork over the money for that, that none of them may just continue to pay for all those accounts? Sure, it will bring and end to some of them, but plenty more wont care, plenty more trolls will still troll you by saying they are doing it, and someone or some org will still have so much more quanta than you and everyone else as to make your head spin.

 

More importantly, this is an mmo, and the large groups of people that actually play together cooperatively are going to continue to do so, they will continue to outperform the alt-whales like they are already doing, and if they feel like flexing then they will eventually just buy another moon while all the solos, small groups, and casuals sit there wondering how they could get so much quanta. 

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Face it,  you dont need a wipe.  All the justifications for a wipe that exist today will re-appear in a few months.   

 

Instead of a wipe, re-start the economy.  Change the flag that says IF 100% damaged and PVP flag set to true then Element Can be Restored decrease by 1.    Remove the check for PVP,  damage to elements should impact elements and force element replacement when you have used their 3 lives.    I understand why damage to elements was removed in the old days when the server was very unstable and we had a lot of client crashes but things have changed.   

 

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hey novaquark, if you do perform a reset, please take the opportunity to perform a planet revamp with it -- the old overhaul that was originally intended to occur over a year ago with all the new biomes and such. i know multiple people whose largest turn off from trying this game is the lack of decent exploration and the repetitive and mundane nature of all planetary bodies. it would provide a whole new dimension to this game that would draw in a lot more players than otherwise. i understand you have the tools already in place from when the revamp was originally intended to occur, so i would imagine this would be done regardless (assuming a wipe), but hey, just in case, here's me suggesting it!

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