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“Marketplace Heist” Response

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2 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

Im assuming everyone is legally accepting the service terms. Meaning they have to be over aged. 

 

You really think that? You DO know that MANY are actually 12  or so ... 

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16 hours ago, Samlow said:

Just remember that they alledgedly reported it (if it was discord in a dm to NQ thats a bad excuse, because discord rules clearly states dms get ignored) 

This means they knew it wasnt intended, why report otherwise?
 

I doubt NQ permad solely based on the rulebreak. Im betting they looked at chat logs too. And in my mind it goes: Hey org, I found out market can be modified, yall wanna come over and mess with it? Maybe someone says it might lead to ban / problems, someone else says, who cares, they never punished anyways, lets do it. 

DMs don't get ignored, though... I have had several requests answered and full blown conversations with NQ staff initiated by DM... Moreover, we know that NQ are FAR MORE active with patch notes, news updates, announcements and DM engagement on Discord than they are on any other platform.

So using platform as an excuse is bollocks.

 

Now, it's possible that an NQ bod received the message while off duty / at home and never received it before the market was sacked... that's a bit of a grey area... To be completely painted white in this matter , they should have waited for a response before getting to work.

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So someone crossed the Rubicon and paid for it seems. Good. I wonder if the thrill was worth it though? Of course there's also that thing about stealing stuff from the one person/group you shouldn't be stealing from. Good thing this is a game and you just get banned, in RL this is jail time lol.

 

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If the people who took down the market didn't use an exploit to do what they did, but just took advantage of badly set RDMS, than this is completely unacceptable behavior.

 

The people who did this should be taken to task for their action and forced to apologize for any grief they caused any players.

 

It is very clearly stated in the exploits section that stealing stuff because RDMS is set wrong is NOT an exploit, and will NOT BE PUNISHED.

 

NQ should apologize and unban the players who got banned. They should apologize to the player base for setting rules and then acting in complete opposition to what they set. It was an unpopular rule in the first place, and now they should realize why themselves, and either change the rule, or at least make the RDMS a lot more friendly, including some warnings after setting them what the consequences of the setting are.

 

As for the players, this is a beta, they found an issue which needs to be addressed, they are doing the job of a beta tester. They should get to keep their loot, as after all that is what the rules set down by NQ state. When player markets are started, they should have a head start, as they already have the terminals.

 

The fact that it broke a lot of links and market orders etc were lost, good; player markets are planned, and NQ now realize if they continue to do the linking that way, a lot of people are going to be very upset when they breakdown their market to move it somewhere it breaks so many things. NQ are now very aware of it thanks to these idiots, and hopefully will save a lot of grief when player markets show up as NQ have now got time to reconsider the approach to markets, orders, linking etc.

 

but what would I know, I'm just a beta tester wondering if I do my job and find a problem will I be rewarded or banned!

 

NB:. not associated with the people who did this, didn't recognize the username as anybody I play with.

 

 

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An exploit isn't a specific function. An exploit is the use of functions in a way unintended by the designer to gain advantage. Or in this case, delete non-player game assets.

 

Gamer psychopaths ("oh I only act like this online") are too used to applying the logic, "if I can do it, I will". As with anything thing in life, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

 

Maybe stop and think about it instead of clamouring to justify yourself and your team with faulty logic. "BuT mUh RdMS!!" You cannot seriously believe yourselves when you think rules for players apply to game assets.

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10 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

If you reduce the self-awareness of players to goats, you are not expected to retaliate when they get slaughtered. 

 

The adrenaline rush of finding out you are able to do something you really should not is powerful drug. And even once you kind of realize you really shouldn't it can make you ignore that sense of reality quite easily. I guess the main point here (for me) is that NQ seems to not want or be able to see that. They instead build their "argument" working backwards from the premonition that this was all intentional and with malicious intent.

 

It all feels like NQ felt the pressure of many of us being discontent with their soft handed approach, so picked the first one through the door to show how tough they can be and lost sight of the circumstances in the process..

 

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2 hours ago, Emptiness said:

The cognitive dissonance from certain people in this thread is astounding. Do ya'all hear what you're saying or do you just crap all over the forums and then dance away?

The mental stress is real in this thread. We have to have a little empathy for their losses BUT i havent saw any info about bug/exploit report from their side which kind of sucks, right ? It was a free choice to do what they did from stealing voxels to braggin about that on reddit.

As ive said 5 times, if you see an open ATM machine with a large amount of $ you cant take them because its not your and from a street walker you become a thief.

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A GAME is NOT Real Life. If you shoot a miner with a bag of gold on the street and take his vehicle afterwards youre a murdering robber and probably get jail for a lifetime. In a game you most likely dont.

Your logic is flawed on every corner of the argument. Comparing RL with a Game is absolutely pointless.

RDMS are the guideline for rights if the rights are given there is no abuse of the systems its 100% following the intended purpose of RDMS.

Please stop with the hypocrisy of "when Devs make a mistake it doesnt count", youre ruining the whole thought behind the Sandbox.

If the Devs want to run an event the next time and an alliance/org zergs the whole event then thats what sandbox is all about. Its not about devs pushing through their opinion above all others being salty when players are more creative or aware within the boundaries of the game system. It was 100% the devs negligence (step 1. not checking on what they were doing 2. breaking their own fundamental rule of "if you fail to manage your RDMS correctly its your fault 3. not reacting in a reasonable time frame) that lead to it. Clearly injecting code and other glitches that would actually require external tools or actively breaking existing system go beyond this logic.

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4 minutes ago, carijay766 said:

A GAME is NOT Real Life. If you shoot a miner with a bag of gold on the street and take his vehicle afterwards youre a murdering robber and probably get jail for a lifetime. In a game you most likely dont. Your logic is flawed on every corner of the argument. Comparing RL with a Game is absolutely pointless.

You can compare it to RL - it's just if you do that, you have to hold NQ accountable for the negligence in failing to secure the market place RDMS resulting in millions of losses for the customers of the market.

 

https://www.prattclay.com/blog/2019/march/what-is-negligent-security-and-what-is-needed-to/#:~:text=Examples of Negligent Security&text=Failing to warn visitors about,guards or a security patrol

 

Examples of Negligent Security

Business and property owners are required to have reasonable security measures in place that will prevent crimes against those that are on the property. Common examples of negligent security include:

  • Failing to install or monitor security cameras

  • Failing to warn visitors about known risks or dangers

  • Failing to respond to a security alert or emergency call

  • Failing to maintain adequate lighting in dark areas

  • Failing to provide properly-trained security guards or a security patrol

  • Failing to fix broken physical barriers, including locks, gates, fences, or doors

  • Failing to maintain the appearance of an establishment

 

So anyway - so much for the RL examples....

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On 10/21/2020 at 3:56 PM, Mordgier said:

You can compare it to RL - it's just if you do that, you have to hold NQ accountable for the negligence in failing to secure the market place RDMS resulting in millions of losses for the customers of the market.

This and etc. - NQ showing their misconception of sandbox and breaking their own rules they set for the game and players shows how hypocritical they really are and that you'll have to expect despotism all the way. NQ shouldve just fixed their mistake (and yes fixing YOUR OWN mistakes takes dev time) and went with the lesson, but no instead they had to take it out on the players. While I feel sorry for the losses of the players caused due to the market disassembly, I can assure you it couldve been prevented by not having such an amateurish way of storing highly sensitive market data LOCALLY in the game (really?!). So again 100% NQs fault in implementing something in the worst possible way and punishing the players for it.

 

For all the Ubermenschen who seem to come from games like fortnite or CoD and have the morals of a god you really need to fix your mindset and be honest with yourself and others. In the sandbox game world it goes as follow: If you see an unsecured ATM and grab whatever the heck you can and get the hell out of there. It should be absolutely and 100% in the sense of a sandbox game. Again NQ themselfs did set the bar for this even by stating mismanaged RDMS is the owners fault. Thats the same as if your goverment would proclaim if you see an unsecured ATM it you can freely take everything  with no consequences or involvment whatsoever (but then would go on beheading people because they took from their unsecured ATM).

 

The underline of this all is:

 

What NQ did was an act against the sandbox idea itself. Yes the Market couldve been left alone and just reported, that wouldve been ideal, but its not the players that are to blame. But they did not abuse, exploit, hack, modify, change any existing system neither did gain an unfair advantage (the market was open to everyone) and didn't they threaten, insult (maybe NQs self image of the unfailable game devs they seem to think they are) or intentionally harm anybody with this (who wouldve thought they'd actually store the data in the game). NQ showed us that if we fully use the extend of the sandbox that they said they would give us we will be the punished ones. They will bend their own laws to any extend to weasel out of their mistakes. Yesterday it was Scoopy & Co, tommorow its gonna be you who will suffer from their despotism I can assure you this. NQ did in fact "bomb for peace".

 

PS: NQ again missed a giant chance to make something constructive out of this, which is sad because it caused a lot of toxicity in the community.

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Considering it took from the initial reports on Friday to Monday for someone to actually abuse the “bug”.  That’s an amazing amount of restraint from the players, they’re treating  NQ like a baby in a cradle.

 

Which is extra amazing considering NQ is grooming the players/community to be like EVE Online players.   Complete with extreme out of game tools, social backstabbing like Corp theft being encouraged, and especially helping major Corp leaders become financially incentivized in the game (by having those leaders be the only source of update plans in monetized JC Interview YouTube videos).   Remember EVE is the place of developer interference like T20, cutting power to competeing FC houses during fleet operations, and creeping neck beard stalking.

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Well I dont want to stray from the topic, but the things that happened behind the curtains and the amount of value and wealth that was transfered over from the alpha (you heard right it was not a complete wipe) is just insane. I will not go into details even tho im not under NDA, but the amount of nepotism had me already worried now this kind of despotism crystalizes out. You will be in a disadvantage from the start (if youre not a whale or friends with the devs). Certainly NQ will also continue their massive censorship in an attempt to sweep everything they did under the carpet. All of this doesnt paint a bright picture of the future of this game.

NQs "closeness to the community" seem to be at the wrong ends, they seem to care more about the money (bankcruptcy anyone?) than their own morals and consistency or to provide you a reasonable customer service and product for your hard earned money (ever wonder why so many backers dont talk much about all the negative things (or even defend them)? its because they dont pay....yet - we'll see that change very soon when NQ rushes into "release").

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i am happy they got what they deserve keep the bans coming for deplorables its the only way to keep the game going and not see players leave. and those who leave over this are not wanted anyway.

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If you will loose the ones that dont profit from nepotism, depotism and the hypocrisy you will only have a handful of uninteresting people left and (considering how dead the game was in alpha) this will, I can guarantee you, not finance the servers (unless you start selling anime cushions for 1000$ each in the cash shop of course).

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Amazing how you guys get likes for blatant lies.

1. They didn't use a "bug", they used your features you said in a former statement are intended and it is a players duty to check the permissions. THEY JUST PRESSED B for christs sake!

2. There is no violation of EULA when there is no unruly behaviour, which clearly isn't there according to your former statement.

3. There are no such terms in your rules that would declare this behaviour as unruly.

4. You are clearly breaking laws here with the permaban. This is obviously a fraud now as you ban players for using YOUR OWN FEATURES! You either have to pay them back a full refund if you want to keep them banned or a partial refund for the duration they were banned if you intend to make this right again. Otherwise I beg the players hit by any ban happening because of this incident to work together and sue the company! They are obviously acting against THEIR OWN RULES and european consumer protection laws! This is a FRAUD!!!

Don't support these devs!

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2 minutes ago, Snorlax said:

Amazing how you guys get likes for blatant lies.

1. They didn't use a "bug", they used your features you said in a former statement are intended and it is a players duty to check the permissions. THEY JUST PRESSED B for christs sake!

2. There is no violation of EULA when there is no unruly behaviour, which clearly isn't there according to your former statement.

3. There is no such terms in your rules that would declare this behaviour as unruly.

4. You are clearly breaking laws here with the permaban. This is obviously a fraud now as you ban players for using YOUR OWN FEATURES! You either have to pay them back a full refund if you want to keep them banned or a partial refund for the duration they were banned if you intend to make this right again. Otherwise I beg the players hit by any ban happening because of this incident to work together and sue the company! They are obviously acting against THEIR OWN RULES and european consumer protection laws! This is a FRAUD!!!

Don't support these devs!

I'm not on NQ's side here - but stuff like this is hilariously over the top and not helping - threats of lawsuits and accusations of fraud are not going to help anyone.

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Just now, Mordgier said:

I'm not on NQ's side here - but stuff like this is hilariously over the top and not helping - threats of lawsuits and accusations of fraud are not going to help anyone.

It is a fact. If you know anything about consumer laws you know that this is actually an illegal respond by the devs. I don't threaten here, I just hope that players hit by the permaban maybe read this, go to a lawyer and see if they can do anything about it. In the end the real money lost should count.

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You guys act like The devs are "players you can fucked with". They are not.  If it was a bug or intended mechanics, Dev constructs should NEVER be targeted. if you wanna send a msg, rip off the top of the roof and make a face in the landing pad. when you start fucking with in game systems you deserve the ban. 

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Sometimes it seems to me that half of the people in this discussion live in some kind of unreal world where there are unicorns and they fart like a rainbow.
1. NQ is the owner of this game. And it is this company that sets the rules of the game. And can change them by the way. I'm not making excuses for them, it's just a fact.
2. The guys were not banned because they pressed the B button. They were banned for what was done later. Namely, the ruin of the market. But that's half the trouble. They were smart enough to brag about it! That's for giving themselves up and getting banned! Even in real life, people are judged for 2 things. a) They got caught. b) They confessed. And then there's the aggravating factor. They trumpeted it on Reddit. Naturally, the developers had to react to this. And they reacted harshly. If there was no reaction, then everyone decided that they can do this and continue without any consequences. Perhaps, if there was no publicity in Reddit, the guys would have gotten off easier. This will be a lesson for everyone.

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13 minutes ago, Snorlax said:

It is a fact. If you know anything about consumer laws you know that this is actually an illegal respond by the devs.

Which country's laws?  Or are we talking Maritime law? Or maybe the Pirate's Code? AAARRGH☠️

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11 minutes ago, Xanider said:

You guys act like The devs are "players you can fucked with". They are not.  If it was a bug or intended mechanics, Dev constructs should NEVER be targeted. if you wanna send a msg, rip off the top of the roof and make a face in the landing pad. when you start fucking with in game systems you deserve the ban. 

Actually this is a false statement. If it is a Dev construct, it is the responsibility of the devs to regulate the rights and properties on it. Otherwise it is just another part of the game world which players are allowed to interact with in any way seen fit.

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