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“Marketplace Heist” Response

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5 minutes ago, Corwan said:

UPDATE TABLE du_marketorders SET market_id='[NEWMARKET15]' WHERE market_id='[OLDMARKET15]';

 

Yeah so like - without the relational model of the DB you have no idea what how many tables you need to touch or what other restrictions are involved that may cause key dupes etc - I don't want to drag this off on to a tanget, but I've been in far far too many situations in RL where a 'simple db change' like the above is in reality incredibly complex to implement. 

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I see nothing that indicates NQ is changing. They pretty much act and react like they always have. they may have improved parts of DU, specifically voxel meshing was brilliant and an excellent improvement even when it's a pretty standard and well known technique, but hey are still generally hiding symptoms expecting to some day be able to get back to fixing the root cause. And I kind of get that but the amount of technical debt they will have built up by now is immense. 

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4 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

 where a 'simple db change' like the above is in reality incredibly complex to implement. 

That would certainly be the case if they anchor the entry on the market terminals and not leave these to be a variable

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Any of you database people know how often backups would be run on a database like the market orders?

 

I mean .. NQ did do regular backups, right? Everything I've seen seems to indicate NQ does no backups at all. I heard about some industry batching error that caused millions of ore to be deleted and NQ did no rollbacks at all...

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Just now, Emptiness said:

I mean .. NQ did do regular backups, right?

I would hope they maintain an incremental backup which runs at least several times a day and maintains a full backup image over say a week.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Yeah so like - without the relational model of the DB you have no idea what how many tables you need to touch or what other restrictions are involved that may cause key dupes etc - I don't want to drag this off on to a tanget, but I've been in far far too many situations in RL where a 'simple db change' like the above is in reality incredibly complex to implement. 

True enough. 

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28 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

I would hope they maintain an incremental backup which runs at least several times a day and maintains a full backup image over say a week.

 

 

LoLz ...

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We all have to take a step back.

Many argue that NQ is taking allot of time to fix bugs and reply to tickets(this is a near fact IMO) 

But how does that justify the actions on the banned players? 

 

 How does exploiting every bug they saw, creating database holes all over the place, help the developers have more time to fix stuff? 

 

Im all into experimenting and reporting bugs, thats our function as beta testers. But do it once and report it. Dont do it 1000 times... 

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9 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

We all have to take a step back.

Many argue that NQ is taking allot of time to fix bugs and reply to tickets(this is a near fact IMO) 

But how does that justify the actions on the banned players? 

 

 How does exploiting every bug they saw, creating database holes all over the place, help the developers have more time to fix stuff? 

 

Im all into experimenting and reporting bugs, thats our function as beta testers. But do it once and report it. Dont do it 1000 times... 

To be fair, nobody in their right mind would have imagined that picking up the terminals would have actually crippled the DB....

 

It's also fair to say that nobody in the right mind would have thought that picking up the terminals was a good idea.

 

Yes it absolutely shitty that if NQ does try to fix the orders it will be hours of wasted time.

 

I totally agree that what happened is regrettable. Where I do not agree is where the blame goes.

 

NQ just pointed it at the player. 

 

Like if it's totally not their fault that the player COULD edit the market in the first place.

 

My stance is that while yes this all hurts us as the community, NQ is largely to blame for this. 

 

It was their negligence that allowed for the marketplace to be editable in the first place. Everything that happened after was frankly inevitable.

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Quote

Entering Build mode on a NPC structure
Beeing able to enter build mode on a NPC structure

Catch the difference between this two sentences and understand why dismantling a market is an exploit (if you know what is a bug leading to an exploit in the first place). You will know the difference between intended and unintended game design. If you can't make that difference and accept it (or don't want) because you're angry about the current context of the game (past RDMS thiefs, ticketing, etc), take a step back. You're not a goat bleating for everything you encounter.


I went to that market and pressed B too and succesfully entered build mode, I did nothing more. Why am I not banned? 

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26 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Like if it's totally not their fault that the player COULD edit the market in the first place.

We are all adults here. 

NQ is not our mother and does not have to hide every "knife" away from us like we are 3 years old. 

 

I strongly belive that NQ only banned ppl that really abused the exploit. And probably even with previous record of exploits. 

 

Let thia be a warning so no one says "i did not think i would be banned" next time. 

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21 minutes ago, Ater Omen said:

  went to that market and pressed B too and succesfully entered build mode, I did nothing more. Why am I not banned? 

not being funny but if this was my game i would of at least tested my base was not open to public

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13 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

We are all adults here. 

NQ is not our mother and does not have to hide every "knife" away from us like we are 3 years old. 

Have you met the average mmo player? 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Jackblackplays said:

not being funny but if this was my game i would of at least tested my base was not open to public

 

If this was my game I'd create/use dev/admin tools that jus allows me to move a construct without he need to change anything on the construct. That apparently the devs need to modify RDMS to move a market is in itself a bad idea.

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This thread is so laughably bad.  Someone exploited a bug, for gain, and people think he should not get banned? If it was a 30 day ban id be ok but im also ok with a perma ban. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  And people who use the argument that "oh well they need to be consistent and ban the other people" ya i think they should, but they need to start somewhere, and if its here then thats the decision they are making.  Hopefully moving forward this sets a precedent.  If it doesn't then we can talk more, but this is a non-issue.  They used a bug for gain, and got the ban hammer.  As it should be.  Fuck them, and fuck anyone who uses a bug for gain.

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Someone exploited a bug

No bugs were exploited. RDMS was messed up, and stuff happened. And NQ said that exploits of improperly set up RDMS were not punishable by NQ.

 

Seems NQ lied.

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@JohnnyTazer

 

you clearly did not bother to actually read the comments and base yours pretty much on what you think/expect to be here..

It's OK  though I get that while royally late, you want to get your two cents in even when we mostly passed that station about a day ago.. ;)

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Just now, Emptiness said:

No bugs were exploited. RDMS was messed up, and stuff happened. And NQ said that exploits of improperly set up RDMS was not punishable by NQ.

 

Seems NQ lied.

Its an NQ construct, RDMS doesn't apply to them.  This isn't a player structure, second its THEIR game, not yours.  I'm just agreeing with their decion and glad they grew a backbone.  Seriously you cant get any dumber.

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1 minute ago, blazemonger said:

@JohnnyTazer

 

you clearly did not bother to actually read the comments and base yours pretty much on what you think/expect to be here..

It's OK  though I get that while royally late, you want to get your two cents in even when we mostly passed that station about a day ago.. ;)

Ya go back and read the first page.

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1 minute ago, joaocordeiro said:

Im assuming everyone is legally accepting the service terms. Meaning they have to be over aged. 

They're legally of age yes, but lets be honest, the mental maturity leaves a lot to be desired.

 

My point remains that once NQ placed a market with open perms, it was just a matter of time before it was smashed. 

 

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

 

2 hours ago, Emptiness said:

If a gate is left open and the goats get into the vegetable garden, do you blame the goats or the negligence which led to the gate being left open?

 

That really sums it up.

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1 hour ago, Mordgier said:

 

That really sums it up.

 

If you reduce the self-awareness of players to goats, you are not expected to retaliate when they get slaughtered. 

 

Either we have the good sense to understand what is and is not acceptable as beta testers or we are treated and punished like children. 

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