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NEW PRICE AT LAUNCH - Starting Sept. 27, 2022 - discussion thread


NQ-Wanderer
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Dear NovaQuark and investors,

 

There's absolutely no [filtered]ing way the game (Dual Universe) is worth that much on its current state. Everyone knows this release is being a rushed one and other than saying "we aren't in beta anymore" there's no valid reason to say this game isn't a beta. You don't even have a roadmap anymore, and even when you had, most of things that were promised/planned for the game haven't been delivered. For all it's worth, DU should never go past the $10 monthly mark unless you, NovaQuark, actually put work into bringing more content, lore, events and FUN into the game, instead of making it a big afk mess which feels more like those mobile money-grabbing games than a proper PC MMO.

 

I really hope that with a 50% raise in subscription costs you also deliver AT LEAST 50% more content, fun and quality to justify this increase, because being very honest here, the game isn't worth that price, and if you don't trust/listen us from the player base, I really hope you brace yourselves for the Steam and independent reviews, because I'm sure they won't be good. And don't expect Dual Universe is going to live well enough to do a No Man's Sky turnaround, because the moment you release it charging $15 a month the expectations will be high, and everyone here who played the game in all it's phases knows it won't last.

 

Good luck with your afk game, we tried supporting you with content, feedback and even wishlisting the game, but every announcement you give us gives an even worse impression on the outcome of this pseudo-release.

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Well, NQ, you have got pretty good at getting rid of your player base; this is just another axe to fall on us.

 

Just when I was beginning to think I might sub when my DACs run out, you tell me it's going to cost nearly twice as much to sub.

Good going!

I'm not paying $20 (Aus) per month.

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@NQ-Nyzaltar

 

I have a sponsor pack from alpha I am assuming alpha was sponsors and  beta metals.

 

Look man... I have a 80 L core skeleton of a racetrack that when I started in beta I was told there would be no wipe of... I have to stake that entire thing out when we restart or go save the entire core set which would make no sense... The planet I chose for my "Home" is now the last phase of development.

 

I started a single player fought hard for every bit of Quanta and now am being told I have to integrate further with other players or re-spend an exorbitant as my actual play time is a literal year) to recoup my current in game wealth and production status... This seems like it could have been handled better potentially with  previous kept talents and deplorable BPs via request and that is all i will say on the wipe

on STUs

I have a sanctuary territory AND another sanctuary territory unit in a container in the Beta as it stands right now when. This is from when DU decided everyone would have a sanc territory and included it with the beta launch... I am curious what was the pricing difference IF contributor sponsor and patron packs are different than bronze silver and gold.

 

AND
 

regardless of how many DACs I get either i will pay 30 bucks for first annual from launch with 10 DACs OR with 7DACs i will pay 90 which is it gonna be?

AND

If I am getting 7 why cant I just buy the 12 month beta access at 83 dollars to be converted to DACs?

 

PLUS

 

Curious as well if I will be able to ever not pay for this game through some in game means... Basically how will I get DACs after the first few months or year?

 

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18 minutes ago, Celestis said:

Well, NQ, you have got pretty good at getting rid of your player base; this is just another axe to fall on us.

 

Just when I was beginning to think I might sub when my DACs run out, you tell me it's going to cost nearly twice as much to sub.

Good going!

I'm not paying $20 (Aus) per month.

 

 

Things like this though are probably how 75% of your community feels and you should really examine how you all can be successful. Just keep chuggin.... I backed the game just like probably this guy.... But again it feels kinda like youre AOL free trialing on people with taxes and then actual monetary requirements being significantly higher without a "NEW" product to support the hike... not just we miscalculated... it sounds so... irresponsible... We as a playerbase need a bit of consistency instead of arguing over petty stuff and having to scrutinize your inconsistencies due to lack of development.   

Dont get me wrong its come a long way.... but do a vote a real one.... ask your players if they want to wipe on launch.... save your self money with server metrics that you already have instead of reinventing the wheel or hoping you do and asking double price due to idk covid inflation war etc.

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Is no one planning on buying DACs with quanta instead of subscribing with real money? Just going to leave when your supporter DACs run out even after accumulating a bunch of stuff and quanta? Assuming NQ can get tradeable DACs going not too long after release...

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I would like to take a bigger role in DU and blah blah blah but this just makes me feel like no matter how much money you get things arent going to change..... I asked to lifetime sub for a reason.... I loved the concept  my message history from signing up for the ark ship goes back to let me see 9/3/2016.

I have tried to get what I can and contribute what I can but..... What does NQ expect of me as a player at this point?
 

Do i have valid input or

am i soon to be replaced by someone in a year that wants to pay 15 a month instead of what was "pledged" to be a "very fair" 7 dollar fee

 

Who are the streamers that you all are sponsoring? you gave an option to start getting the game for free with enough followers, who are those people?

 

And what happens to those accounts who lifetime subbed and just... dont care anymore? I should pay 15 bucks a month so they after what will only be 2 years mind you until monetary equalization to a ruby founder at a few hundred can walk back in without batting an eyelash at a fee.

You want to raise the monthly but you dont want me to reinvest or give me anything thats p2p content

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41 minutes ago, Haunty said:

Is no one planning on buying DACs with quanta instead of subscribing with real money? Just going to leave when your supporter DACs run out even after accumulating a bunch of stuff and quanta? Assuming NQ can get tradeable DACs going not too long after release...

 

Assuming NQ can get tradeable DACs going not too long after release...

 

Well, can they?

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4 hours ago, REPONE said:


I'd say, if you feel you can get on average 20-30c/hour of value out of any game, it's worth the asking price.
But that is just me.

 

Is that a metric of every hour you're logged in afk waiting for stuff to complete or each hour where you actually play and do stuff?

 

Because this is what enrages me so much about the latest updates, including the pricing change. Pretty much every mechanic is being changed to be based on just a timer, both slowing down your progression and artificially giving a sense of "so much to do" to the game.

 

After you remove that from the equation what do you really have? It rapidly becomes clear how much the game lacks in the sense of content, events and lore. The timers will probably make a few newbie suckers believe there's lots to do on the "end game" on release, but pretty much anyone who played before and got to a point where you done/had everything will know that.

 

The only thing that really remains for me nowadays (and I'm sure for many others) is building, scripting. Other than that? Not really, you don't have places to explore or rare things to come upon, and the last big lore event was that loose thing that lead to Thoramine. Sure, the Easter and today's bus events are cool, but for an MMO would be nice to have lore or at least have more planets/systems to explore.

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8 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

Hi Vyvacia.
There were never Sanctuary Territories included in Bronze or Silver Founder Packs.
This perk came only with Supporter Packs (Contributor, Sponsor, Patron).
What are exactly the packs you currently own?
There might be a misunderstanding somewhere.
 

Best Regards,
Nyzaltar

 

I bought the Silver Founder's pack during the Kickstarter.  And i did receive a Sanctuary Territory Unit after the last wipe.  And i currently own a territory on Sanctuary.

 

When the Supporter packs were announced we were told that Founders were also being given some of the new rewards from the supporter packs.

 

From the Supporter pack mega thread on r/DualUniverse But this was originally posted here on the forums somewhere too  https://www.reddit.com/r/DualUniverse/comments/82oyyc/supporter_packs_megathead_information_questions/

 

Quote

Automatic Supporter Rewards for Founder Backers

Basically, we decided to upgrade founder pledges with supporter rewards except:

  • DACs from Supporter Packs

  • Beta Keys from Supporter Packs

  • In-game and forum titles from Supporter Packs

  • Name in credits as a Supporter backer

  • T-Shirt from Patron Pack.

  • What does it mean for each Founder backer level:

Silver Founder backers gain:

  • Alpha 2 Access (instead of Beta)

  • Sanctuary Territory Unit (x1)

  • Arkship Passenger Outfit (Bronze)

  • Supporter Pet lvl.1 (different from Founder Pets)

  • Legacy Resurrection Node (x1)

  • Extra Character Customization (x3)

Gold Founder backers gain:

  • Sanctuary Territory Unit (x1)

  • Legacy Earth Outfit (Silver)

  • Arkship Passenger Outfit (Bronze & Silver)

  • Supporter Pet lvl.1 & lvl.2 (different from Founder Pets)

  • Legacy Resurrection Node (x1)

  • Furniture Props set (10 props set)

  • Character Animation Pack (5 animations)

  • Fireworks (x50)

  • Extra Character Customization (x6)

  • Supporter Character Name Reservation (lower priority than Founder ones)

  • Content Creator Pack

Sapphire Founder backers (and above) gain:

  • Sanctuary Territory Unit (x2)

  • Legacy Earth Outfit (Silver)

  • Arkship Passenger Outfit (Bronze & Silver)

  • Supporter Pet lvl.1, 2 & 3 (different from Founder Pets)

  • Legacy Resurrection Node (x2)

  • Furniture Props set (20 props set)

  • Character Animation Pack (10 animations)

  • Fireworks (x100)

  • Extra Character Customization (x9)

  • Supporter Character Name Reservation (lower priority than Founder ones)

  • Content Creator Pack

 

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I am a little confused.

 

Did gamers believe that Steam's 30% revenue would not be passed on to the customer? Some people really haven't been paying attention in the real world.

 

So now I don't know why you're upset. "It's only 12 euros a month" to use your argument against you.

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16 minutes ago, Jinxed said:

Why not just charge 30% more on steam than direct via home page then?

 

Because no mmorpg company does it that way. You pay the same amount of money every month, regardless of the platform. And you take the most expensive approach that comes along and that would be steam here.

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18 hours ago, REPONE said:


That is actually incorrect
Dual Universe - Supporter Rewards for Founder Backers (archive.org)

 

Silver Founder Backers gain:

  • Alpha 2 Access (instead of Beta)
  • Sanctuary Territory Unit (x1)
  • Arkship Passenger Outfit (Bronze)
  • Supporter Pet lvl.1 (different from Founder Pets)
  • Legacy Resurrection Node (x1)
  • Extra Character Customization (x3)
  • Content Creator Pack

Gold Founder Backers gain:

  • Sanctuary Territory Unit (x1)
  • Legacy Earth Outfit (Silver)
  • Arkship Passenger Outfit (Bronze & Silver)
  • Supporter Pet lvl.1 & lvl.2 (different from Founder Pets)
  • Legacy Resurrection Node (x1)
  • Furniture Props set (10 props set)
  • Character Animation Pack (5 animations)
  • Fireworks (x100)
  • Extra Character Customization (x6)
  • Supporter Character Name Reservation (lower priority than Founder ones)
  • Content Creator Pack
  • Arkship Cryogenic Tube (decorative Element)

Sapphire Founder Backers (and above) gain:

  • Sanctuary Territory Unit (x2)
  • Legacy Earth Outfit (Silver & Black)
  • Arkship Passenger Outfit (Bronze, Silver & Black)
  • Supporter Pet lvl.1, 2 & 3 (different from Founder Pets)
  • Legacy Resurrection Node (x2)
  • Furniture Props set (20 props set)
  • Character Animation Pack (10 animations)
  • Fireworks (x500)
  • Extra Character Customization (x9)
  • Supporter Character Name Reservation (lower priority than Founder ones)
  • Content Creator Pack
  • Arkship Cryogenic Tube (decorative Element)

Wasn't that  old reward from alpha to beta version of game also that link is 2018...i'm getting so confused!!!

 

I just remember this 3d about backers rewards 

 

 

 

Edited by Neuritico
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20 hours ago, REPONE said:

I really do not like how this change has pretty much removed the option to use Markee for non US customers. I do not want to link to steam and not a fan of XSOLLA

Markee's game codes was a great alternative but now it's going to cost way more than EU prices

 

But you can still use Markee right now and get the cheap price for a year sub, and I'm wondering if that is part of the point here -- to encourage people to front-load the cost as much as possible by buying 1 year subs now instead of shorter ones.  It worked on me, look how much more expensive that 12 monther is going to be!

 

I've also been using Markee recently for the same reason, would be nice to see an EU or UK equivalent for these GTCs.

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1 hour ago, Jinxed said:

Why not just charge 30% more on steam than direct via home page then?

 

 

Fortnite was banned from the apple store (for a while,still is? idk) for trying something a bit like that, iirc.

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Fortnite was kicked out for implementing it's own in app payment system. On Steam you can do that in your games without issue. But if you want your users to pay through Steam, you would want to integrate it.

 

30% is what you pay for selling through Steam, unless you have a LOT of sales. As a developer/publisher, you can still generate an unlimited number of Steam keys you can sell through other avenues and Steam doesn't take a cut from, but the other sales avenues will take their cut.

 

33% price increase? 😉 $20/€20/month when?

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3 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Why not just charge 30% more on steam than direct via home page then?

Usually with this type of 'software store' if you go with a high profile one they make you agree to offer your cheapest price on their store and not undercut it anywhere else.  And then they take a chunk.  I haven't ever put anything on steam though so it might be different.

 

But this is the cost of doing business and exposing the game to a lot of people.  You have to ask yourself would you rather pay X to play a game with 1000 people in it or 1.5X to play a game with 10000?  

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@Atmosph3rik
 

Yes, I am aware of the gifts given from the Supporter packs to the Founder Backers. My point was to ask Vyvacia what happened exactly with the Customer Support regarding this refusal of getting two Sanctuary Territory Units as it was not perfectly clear. The misunderstanding may be totally on our side. I suppose the best course of action is to give a precise chronology of what happened with the packs and give the list of possibilites depending of the scenario.

 

@Vyvacia

 

To recap:

  • During the 2016 Kickstarter campaign + from October 2016 to October 2017: Founder Packs (including the Silver one) were available.
  • After that came the Supporter Packs (Contributor, Sponsor, Patron).
  • Supporter packs ended before Beta Launch.
  • During Beta, only monthly subscription (at a discounted price) was available.

During all the time where the Founder Packs were available, there were no Sanctuary Unit included in those packs.
However it is true that, with Supporter Packs release, it was granted to Founder Backers some rewards of the Supporter Packs for free, as a thank for the early backing. In the case of a Silver Founder Backer, this backer would receive one Sanctuary Territory Unit. It was not a gift given to every player.

 

Now about your specific case:


If you currently own a Silver Founder pack + a Sponsor Pack, that's correct, you're entitled to two Sanctuary Territory Units and those rewards should be available to you at launch. If there is an issue with the Customer Support regarding the case, please link them this reply to them or ask them to reach out to me. We will find a way to solve the issue.

 

About how to get play time at launch:

  • You should get the DACs from both your Silver Founder Pack and your Sponsor Back at launch. You can use them instead of paying a subscription if you want to.
  • As an early Founder backer, the Beta is supposed to be free for you, so you shouldn't have any active subscription, and you should directly be able to subscribe for the 12 months of subscription if you want to.
  • In case you have already subscribed in advance for some months, there is indeed a technical issue (the team is working on it) preventing to cumulate several subscription actions in advance. As a workaround for the time being, it's possible to get Game Time Codes (GTC) from our official partner MarkeeDragon: https://store.markeedragon.com/index.php?cat=360
  • Those GTCs will cumulate properly in order to define which Pioneer Pack eligibility you will have at launch

Last but not least: 
Due to website maintenance, subscription actions on our website with the current price should end on September 22nd.
Game Time Coupon priceson MarkeeDragon store will be updated (increased) on September 27th.

 

About converting DACs / Monthly subscription:


That's not possible because one DAC and one month of subscription haven't the same value.
A DAC has a higher value than a simple month of subscription as it will be tradable later for in-game money.

 

About getting playtime by in-game means:


Though it won't be possible right after launch, it is still planned for players to be able to put their DACs on a market to sell them for an amount of quantas later.

 

About getting a lifetime subscription:

 

This was only possible during the time where the Founder Packs were available (during the 2016 Kickstarter campaign + from October 2016 to October 2017). During that time it was needed to get a Ruby Founder pack to get a lifetime subscription.
This has, unfortunately, nothing to do with the time you started to participate on the forum.

 

About the streamer sponsorship:

 

To get an accurate reply to what you want to know on that specific topic, it's better to reach out to the Customer Support who will transmit the questions to the Marketing team.

 

I hope this answers your questions.

 

Best Regards,

Nyzaltar.

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Although I'm commonly very understanding of NQ decisions and often try to look at the big picture, I am just not able to grasp this.  Not from any high level position, not even from space.   Schematics, I understood the need to slow the game progression down.  DU is designed/meant to be a long term game with long term goals. Fair.  I understood the need to reduce cores amongst the community, my org was only at about 1000 total (3 of us) and we managed to bring that down to 300 and felt that was fair. (though we wished for a "remove all to container function".  I understand the need for the screen/art changes. I understand the need for the voxel rebalance.  I understand the need for pretty much everything NQ has done from a "Big Picture" perspective. (even if I don't like them all :) )

That said, you are pushing your subscription cost to play outside of many people's ability to pay it.   Yes some people are rich and can afford the hike, but many of the most "cherished" DU players are literally on Twitch begging for money to support themselves and their families.  There are many non streamers in DU that are part of this.  We have several players who have become homeless throughout Covid and managed to scrape together enough to play DU from time to time to make their lives a little better.  Because at the end of the day, DU wasn't mainstream, but its community could very easily turn a bad day IRL in to a fun happy day. (all the little happy builds)

I understand the need for money to keep your business going, and I understand the new cost projections you have for launching to a vast "spike" in players initially, with a gradual reduction over time due to normal projected forecasts of inactivity. (all games, literally every single one)  That said, I urge you to highly reconsider this new price point.

We the DU community, those who took the time to post here, are telling you this a "bad" plan for launch.  Many are sharing their own reasons but no matter the reason, we are telling you that this price is too high. Going to steam with a sub cost above $15 has never been accepted by the reviewers. We are also telling you to introduce "micro" transactions in the forms of skins that will supplement this increased cost.  Its much easier for people to "consider" purchasing 2x $10 skins in a month than it is to justify paying a "flat" $5.00 more for nothing extra.

Please if you DU anything NQ....If you were to listen to anything... you are pricing yourself out of a larger audience by being the ONLY MMO game to have a sub higher than WoW ($16.97)  in Canada.  This isn't any sort of "smart" logic.  DU this and watch the red reviews start on Sept 27th.... 

My orgmate's sub is till 2025, we plan to long term this and hope it survives more than anything.  Lower price = Larger audience. Larger audience + (skins) = longer term players (invested)
 

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I'm trying to turn the news around to understand. And yet the only explanation is "make as much money as possible because the game won't work".

By putting such a high price, we're just not going to get any new players. You have to be consistent.

 

You just have to compare with the offers on the market:

World of Warcraft: 12€/month
Star Wars: The Old Republic: 13€/month
Final Fantasy XIV Online: 13€/month
The Elder Scrolls Online: 12€/month
Eve online: 13€/month

Black Desert Online: no subscription
Destiny 2: no subscription
Warframe: no subscription
Tom Clancy's The Division 2: no subscription
Space engineers: no subscription
Starbase: no subscription
....

 

All these games with monthly fee have much more content and are finished.

 

How can I get a friend to come over to an "unfinished" game at 12€/month and tell them that they need to give NQ time to add content but that the game has potential.

 

I wasn't a fan of the wipe, but I must say that it brought a bit of freshness despite the fact that some content had been removed from the game.
But now, it just gave a big drag on the launch and demotivated a lot of players.

 

I'm disappointed with this decision which goes against the interests of the game because an MMO without players is a dead MMO.

😥

 

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I'm not convinced by that, you can take all instanced titles out that list before even starting the conversation.

 

Then: I'm pretty sure I could host a private wow server from my 15 years younger high-end machine. I wouldn't dream to be able to host DU on a lonesome little rizen. None of those MMO that are comparable have anywhere near the performance requirements, the wow map is saved on your computer, the DU map can't be.

 

 

Then finally: they did lower the price in an attempt to approach the problem with an economics mindset, and I am convinced it did jack sheet: you don't pick DU because it's cheaper, you pick DU because you want a game like DU... Who the [filtered] goes: well I wanted to play the scifi-sandbox but the fantasy-mmo is cheaper so I pick that instead?! It's not a thing.

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56 minutes ago, Cybob19 said:

Then: I'm pretty sure I could host a private wow server from my 15 years younger high-end machine. I wouldn't dream to be able to host DU on a lonesome little rizen. None of those MMO that are comparable have anywhere near the performance requirements, the wow map is saved on your computer, the DU map can't be.

 

It doesnt matter if they use NASA or Elon Musk equipment or the mother of the quantum processor to run DU. No content is no content. I am not paying for potential.

Fair enough, the game has some nice elements in it, but not enough to make the players to want to be competitive. Maybe up to a point, which will be reached pretty fast.

Agree to pay for the game, but not the current price.

Lower the price and atract more players.

I really dont understand the logic behind the high prices. You only lose players.

The servers can sustain 30k players..So what`s better for DU owners money wise ?  2-3k players at current price or 10k players at half the price, price which can gradually go higher if the game experience improves.

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If the "nothing" fills hard drives and server traffic, those bills don't care about the value assesment of your personal enjoyment.

 

Since you do not pay for potential I wonder how you're assessing the game anyway, since the beta was unbuyable under those criteria.

 

And if there is nothing (nil, niente, nada, nix) to the game it ain't worth 0,99 any more than it's worth 15.

 

 

 

I can not assess the server costs from where I'm sitting... You can speculate that they're too high since they ran the servers for less, when they had to constantly transfer tunnel terrain data.You can speculate that instead that was the dumbest thing they ever did since instead of pulling in more players they just lost out on revenue. We do not know for a fact.

 

It's like you have a 75hp car that takes 5l/100km and a 300hp car that takes 12l/100km. You can argue that the big car is dumb and useless and that the small car does everything useful better than the big car, that's fine. But to show up at the gas station with the big car, and insist to be handed the same bill than the small car, is quite ludicrous.

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