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Abandoned Constructs/Territories


Honvik
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Another interesting talk on our discord is about abandoned constructs and territories.  In other MMO's things get compacted into an escrow and therefore someone potentially returning could open their package and continue where they were.

 

DU is proposing everything is salvaged and taken.  Not sure this will encourage people to come back to the game if everything is able to be taken.  Thoughts?

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DU somehow things the game design will work despite having to constantly redo everything they have pretty much made thus far. They have no idea what they are doing and it shows. They seem to be rushing headlong into completing the game loop in order to milk subs out of people with this update as you will need to pay a sub to get 10x the tedium in order to get 10% per month you used to get in days without owning 100+ tiles to do the same thing, buying or making miners, TUs, and cores just to pay an insane tax to just play the game in any normal capacity that was supposed to simplify the game so that one of the devs as an industrialist dosent have to mine anymore. 

 

Its going to be epic to watch this go down as one of the best MMO blunders of all time I think when all the people who put DU on the back burner for better games, those waiting for launch, or those who just went dormant and didnt see the Vlog come back to a parking lot with nothing there when their taxes default and people stole everything but the quanta they had are all that is left.

 

Or mega orgs siege the market. If they are smart all they have to do is siege the market for 6 months and not buy or sell anything and just use what they get and everyone else defaults if they cant pay for their tiles with space gas shortages and mass inflation hits hard to all small orgs and go around and just clean up all their hard work when their tiles are defaulted on and they cant run missions or mine asteroids if they cant get there or people are forced to slow boat and lose their only means of moving ore from planets if they simply just stop selling warp cells and you cant avoid pvp. Its game over unless you join up and people just end up quitting the game.

 

Solid plan if you as me keep on keeping on DU. Debt Universe as a job to really do nothing in game but work a virtual job sounds super fun.

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8 minutes ago, Warlander said:

Solid plan if you as me keep on keeping on DU. Debt Universe as a job to really do nothing in game but work a virtual job sounds super fun.

 

Especially for new players, I wonder what they are supposed to do other than vacuum rocks... 

 

Setting up a base on Sanctuary? Enjoy trekking even further since it's now the only real "safe zone" and everyone will move their shit there. 

No point in going to Alioth, you can't afford the taxes as a fresh player and the "exploration" part of the game is gone now that there's no ore to mine.

No point running missions until you can get a proper ship.

No way to PvP or mine asteroids without a space ship either, and as a new player you aren't going to win any PvP encounter in this game's poorly conceived idea of "open world" PvP (inherently asymmetrical conflict).  

 

All because they decided to bury ore absurdly deep and turn their game into a mole sim. They didn't have to do that.

 

Now instead of "mole sim" it becomes a "lube up your miners and wait" sim. 

 

Fortunately, we'll be able to see how all this works out soon, there's little chance they delay the update for more tweaks. They've never adapted to player criticism before and I have no reason to believe they will now, either.

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10 hours ago, Honvik said:

 

Another interesting talk on our discord is about abandoned constructs and territories.  In other MMO's things get compacted into an escrow and therefore someone potentially returning could open their package and continue where they were.

 

DU is proposing everything is salvaged and taken.  Not sure this will encourage people to come back to the game if everything is able to be taken.  Thoughts?
 

I completely agree with this.   Taking somebody's stuff and either deleting it or handing it to someone else as loot is a great way to ensure that player never comes back again.  But on the other hand we do want to have a way to get rid of all those terrible towers people have put up all over the place before going AFK.

Perhaps constructs could persist and continue to be owned by the original owner after a territory reset but they would go into some sort of inactive state.  If the player comes back and starts paying again they re-activate.  But if someone else claims the territory the leftover constructs could be disassembled into component elements/voxels and a blueprint which the returning player could collect from something like a market terminal at the institute.

I would also give the claiming player a payout of 10% of they value of the stuff to encourage tile clearance and charge the returning player the same amount to recover their stuff again when they return.

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38 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

But if someone else claims the territory the leftover constructs could be disassembled into component elements/voxels and a blueprint which the returning player could collect from something like a market terminal at the institute.

The solution can be quite simple, so we know this isnt going to happen but if u dont pay the taxes, the territory should be refunded for all tiles bought before demeter and constructs that are in those tiles will be packaged up in a BP with the materials and deposited at the nearest market where players can reteeive it. This way it cant be a used to move statics between planets and everyone that quit at 0.23 and since wont lose anything. 

 

If NQ doesnt do this, noone will ever return. 

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9 hours ago, RumRunner25 said:

The solution can be quite simple, so we know this isnt going to happen but if u dont pay the taxes, the territory should be refunded for all tiles bought before demeter and constructs that are in those tiles will be packaged up in a BP with the materials and deposited at the nearest market where players can reteeive it. This way it cant be a used to move statics between planets and everyone that quit at 0.23 and since wont lose anything. 

 

If NQ doesnt do this, noone will ever return. 

 

That sounds reasonable.   I dont think they have really thought about it tho.  Obviously player retention and returning players should be important.  I can think of a number of people just taking a 'break' till more content is added.  It would be terrible if it all just vanished.

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But even with unlimited funds, I seem to remember someone saying there is a limit to how much tax you can pay ahead of time?.

So you are still unable to leave the game for some extended time period.

 

So NQ is basically holding your content hostage and saying you better play the game, or else there might be some "accident" you know.. nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

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1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

So NQ is basically holding your content hostage and saying you better play the game, or else there might be some "accident" you know.. nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

The obvious reaction is moving all assets to Sanctuary and build temporary mining outposts on other planets and moons only. Than NQ will be once more surprised that we don't play the game as intended and come up with the next crazy idea.

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12 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

The obvious reaction is moving all assets to Sanctuary and build temporary mining outposts on other planets and moons only. Than NQ will be once more surprised that we don't play the game as intended and come up with the next crazy idea.

 

100% they will. Their next item on the roadmap is "first time user experience" which will certainly need to deal with clutter on Sanctuary.

 

New players won't enjoy hiking 20 minutes to find an empty tile, especially when the "tutorial" tells you to go back and forth to the market multiple times. 

 

I really wonder how player densities on Sanctuary will affect performance, too. This whole patch can very quickly become counterproductive to all their stated goals. 

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10 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

The obvious reaction is moving all assets to Sanctuary and build temporary mining outposts on other planets and moons only. Than NQ will be once more surprised that we don't play the game as intended and come up with the next crazy idea.

This! You are absolutely right. NQ has never learned to just create content a d let players decide how to use it. Instead they find a narrow, boring and dull playstyle and make everyone play that way or nothing at all. 

 

Now the obvious problem is planets are deserted and sanctuary is too full so we need to make room and only active accounts will be able to "save" a spot on sanctuary or you can only have a tile there for your first 3 months. So many coffin nails to choose from. 

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On 11/9/2021 at 1:08 PM, Honvik said:

Another interesting talk on our discord is about abandoned constructs and territories.  In other MMO's things get compacted into an escrow and therefore someone potentially returning could open their package and continue where they were

 

Losing what you have if you do not pay your way has always beenin the books for DU. I still do not understand the argument here. You can say that he way NQ is implementing this is not great sure, but still.. you do not pay upkeep in whatever way it is implemented, you lose your stuff.

 

11 hours ago, RumRunner25 said:

NQ has never learned to just create content and let players decide how to use it.

That is because this is a sandbox MMO where the players are expected to create the content using the systems NQ provides. Now, argue that those systems are not all that great or varied to say the least and we do not disagree.

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4 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

You can say that he way NQ is implementing this is not great sure, but still.. you do not pay upkeep in whatever way it is implemented, you lose your stuff.

 

The implementation turns it into a problem. Losing your stuff if you don't pay upkeep would be OK if implemented or at least clearly communicated from the beginning of 'beta'. But it wasn't and NQ even encouraged building entire cities that don't generate any income. Now, after using these eye candies for marketing, NQ decides to turn them into money sinks and I guess many owners don't even know it. All those monuments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

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I like the idea of salvaging abandoned constructs. We, small tribes of children living in post-apo world full of abandoned factories and useless space elevators, will have holiday. Lets call it "The Salvage Content Day". And on holidays we usually receive gifts. Salvaging those factories will be our gift unwrapping.

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4 hours ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

The implementation turns it into a problem. Losing your stuff if you don't pay upkeep would be OK if implemented or at least clearly communicated from the beginning of 'beta'. But it wasn't

 

Yes and no, the fact that upkeep woudl become a thing has always been on the table and seeing how NQ takes many cues from EVE an generally follows the same "(lack of) actions has/have conseqences" it shoudl be understood.

As with so any things relating to DU and NQ's plans, their inability to be clear, which often seems to be fueled by a lack of confidence in their community and the fear of being "misunderstood", has time and time again actually resulted in the exact thing they tried to prevent, uncertainty, confusion and wild speculation.

 

And as of the lateest VLOG, this attitude and behaviour remains in place, very firmly. 

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12 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

That is because this is a sandbox MMO where the players are expected to create the content using the systems NQ provides. Now, argue that those systems are not all that great or varied to say the least and we do not disagree.

I say content, you say systems. Whatever word you choose, NQ delivers a framework and players leverage that framework however they want. My point still stands, NQ doesnt like how players leverage their framework so they change their "systems" to force us to play (ie create content) a certain way in their sandbox. 

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7 hours ago, RumRunner25 said:

NQ doesnt like how players leverage their framework so they change their "systems" to force us to play (ie create content) a certain way in their sandbox.

 

But it gets harder and harder to guess what this "certain way" is. For a long time it looked like building pretty constructs is part of it. Now the builders get punished with a tax or expropriation. If everything that players do might finally be turned against them than they will stop playing at all.

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1 hour ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

 

But it gets harder and harder to guess what this "certain way" is. For a long time it looked like building pretty constructs is part of it. Now the builders get punished with a tax or expropriation. If everything that players do might finally be turned against them than they will stop playing at all.

So true.

I've decided that I will not re-sub when my current subs expires.
 

Red-line for me is this tax-system. Pay new taxes or loose assets which has been acquired playing by the book in 100%

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On 11/10/2021 at 1:51 AM, Warlander said:

DU somehow things the game design will work despite having to constantly redo everything they have pretty much made thus far. They have no idea what they are doing and it shows. They seem to be rushing headlong into completing the game loop in order to milk subs out of people with this update as you will need to pay a sub to get 10x the tedium in order to get 10% per month you used to get in days without owning 100+ tiles to do the same thing, buying or making miners, TUs, and cores just to pay an insane tax to just play the game in any normal capacity that was supposed to simplify the game so that one of the devs as an industrialist dosent have to mine anymore. 

 

Its going to be epic to watch this go down as one of the best MMO blunders of all time I think when all the people who put DU on the back burner for better games, those waiting for launch, or those who just went dormant and didnt see the Vlog come back to a parking lot with nothing there when their taxes default and people stole everything but the quanta they had are all that is left.

 

Or mega orgs siege the market. If they are smart all they have to do is siege the market for 6 months and not buy or sell anything and just use what they get and everyone else defaults if they cant pay for their tiles with space gas shortages and mass inflation hits hard to all small orgs and go around and just clean up all their hard work when their tiles are defaulted on and they cant run missions or mine asteroids if they cant get there or people are forced to slow boat and lose their only means of moving ore from planets if they simply just stop selling warp cells and you cant avoid pvp. Its game over unless you join up and people just end up quitting the game.

 

Solid plan if you as me keep on keeping on DU. Debt Universe as a job to really do nothing in game but work a virtual job sounds super fun.

Just wondering, wont all their quanta be gone as well.  Since their territory units will be deducting the funds until all their funds run out.  So, the quanta is the 1st thing to go, when that runs out, all the rest goes.  Is that right or am I missing something?

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57 minutes ago, Underhook said:

Just wondering, wont all their quanta be gone as well.  Since their territory units will be deducting the funds until all their funds run out.  So, the quanta is the 1st thing to go, when that runs out, all the rest goes.  Is that right or am I missing something?

No if you don’t log in to put quanta in the “territory wallet” you character wallet will remain untouched however your territories will start the process of abandonment straight away. 

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