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Demeter will probably Kill the game if it goes to live servers..


Hagbard
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7 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

And if by some miracle it is not the death of DU, the type of game and players left will be something very different from what it was supposed to be (even more like EVE and less and less like DU the persistent MMO universe).

 

If people wanted this type of gameplay they would still play EVE.

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Flying around Alioth I see claimed terratories every 5 or 6 hexes, and 90% of them are totally undeveloped (and it feels like most of the rest have a space needle and not much else). I think a Tax is justified, to reclaim abandoned/unused terratories. However, I think the tax rate should be based on the economic value of the tile.  So high litre per hour (+ ore tier) tiles should be taxed at a higher rate, then low productive tiles. 


As far as existing scans go, my knee jerk reaction was to have scans deleted, although it does penalize people who spent a lot of time collecting them. But with the new system it seems that the difference between an "average" tile's productivity (ore per hour) and a "great" tile's is far less than what we have now where a meganode could keep a person mining non-stop for many hours without any down time (i.e. moving to a new tile, digging/searching for a node, and mining 6kL - repeat). At least I hope so.

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The question is, how many of those inactive tiles are players just waiting for a game that is fun to play?

To me at least, it seems for sure that a much higher percentage of them will never return and cancel the subscription once they start losing tiles for not being good citizens and playing the game at the frequency and style dictated by NQ.

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On 11/5/2021 at 9:07 PM, CptLoRes said:

@Kobayashi I just answered you in the other thread, but I will do the same here also.

 

NQ has strongly hinted that the game will be released by the end of this year. So Demeter going live is pretty much going to be the "finished" game they are going to release.

Is the game ready to be released? No, not even close. But as mentioned, NQ has been going in circles for many years now, and they are running out of money.

Arent you one of those that said NQ had run out of money before though?  Seem to remember when JC left, that you and several others declared NQ bankrupt and said it would all be sold off.  6 months later, development has continued (you could argue it has improved) and they dont seem to have run out of money at all. Why should I listen to you now, when you are generally wrong in your predictions?

Also, got no idea where you get that the launch will be the end of the year, I would be VERY surprised if they launch without some of the key gameplay elements that are still missing.

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On 11/6/2021 at 3:07 AM, CptLoRes said:

NQ has strongly hinted that the game will be released by the end of this year.

 

As I was told by sources it will be "greater summer" 2022 (end of august?), likely with 2 more large updates (spring one and "last one")

 

I also expect more agressive disign/monetization behaivor from NQ, because they kinda overstaying their "charity" period, some investments be expected to squeezed back.

 

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On 11/7/2021 at 4:28 PM, le_souriceau said:

 

As I was told by sources it will be "greater summer" 2022 (end of august?), likely with 2 more large updates (spring one and "last one")

 

Yes, that was also my impression until NQ-Sesch said something to the effect of  "until release in some months" in the Demeter video.  Not sure if it was an actual slip, or just me putting meaning into something he said out of context. But the way he said it, I did not get the feeling he was talking about a Demeter patch release, but an actual game release. Sadly I forgot look a the timestamp when watching, and the video is to long for me to re-watch to find the time he said it.

 

The second clue is the "Welcome our new CEO" post.

Quote

As we reach the final stretch leading to the launch of the game, the team already in place will continue to work on improving Dual Universe with NQ-Kyrios continuing his work as creative director.

 

Again, The wording in that sentence is open for interpretion, so I might be putting meaning into this that is not there.

 

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On 11/8/2021 at 3:31 PM, CptLoRes said:

Again, The wording in that sentence is open for interpretion, so I might be putting meaning into this that is not there.

 

Well, even if we miss some details, I think general launch context is pretty clear.

 

1) Deal with Quanta Nick likely included (or highly suggested) some sort of minimal viable product launch within 2022. So it will be 2022 99%.

2) MVP itself probably not defined hard in content/features, so its "best you can do" at deadline, with priority of cutting costs (this what we pretty much observe). It means nothing trully will hold this somewhat forced release from standpoint of "not ready". It just be called ready.

3) 2021 development mostly over, with Christmas time eating up rest of the year.

 

Then we have quite formed window:

 

4) NQ not super fast (punn intended), so I doubt it will be first 3 month of 2022 (yet late march/early april not totaly impossible -- if they for some reason really pressed now).

 

5) Most importantly, we have upper border of release -- with Starfield going up november, it will be suicide for "space mmo game" to release anywhere after early september in 2022. 

 

Considering also summer vocations period, it leaves us with 2 main candidate periods:

  • may/june (faster scenario)
  • august/september (if some additional last minute crunch be needed/there is luxury for it, more likely?)

Latter date will be also more friendly to marketing for several reasons, but I kinda digress.

 

 

 

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Releasing the game in its current or completed status with Demeter is already grossly negligent. It will not attract masses of new players and will certainly not succeed in keeping them in the game for the long term with the "content".
In this respect, Dualuniverse offers too little and is too unstable. Minecraft would probably be better for building, starbase for AvA, PvP doesn't work at all so far and in eve reach...let's leave that alone.
Today's players are spoiled and petty. little princesses, the best current example is probably the short hype around NewWorld. It had a gigantic start in terms of player numbers, splendid PR campaigns and now? 
You won't be able to do that with DualUniverse, i.e. such a "start" and attract such a mass of players. how can you do it.....when the content only consists of a limited construction menu, an upcoming mini-game for mining units, clearing dead asteroids or flying missions, some of which simply mean logging in, flying off and watching a series for 1-6 hours....that's what you call "playing"?
Please don't get me wrong, I love the actual experience that Dual Universe wanted to convey - but we are still at least 5 years away from that.

 

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1 hour ago, Zarcata said:

Please don't get me wrong, I love the actual experience that Dual Universe wanted to convey - but we are still at least 5 years away from that.

 

To be brutally honest such cursed games have little bit of endless fat loss or junkie story. Like its always "diet starts next monday" or "just last one dose" thing, so it like "game will be good in X years" or "next patch", its "just alpha/beta/recently released".

 

Question is, is it really so, or just mental acrobatics of coping? 

 

Because its not 5 years to just wait, its 5 years to survive having costly servers. Quite a difference. With current vector of events (if its not magicly changed), project will be closed and pretty much forgotten much faster. Like Tabula Rasa, per exemple. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, le_souriceau said:

 

To be brutally honest such cursed games have little bit of endless fat loss or junkie story. Like its always "diet starts next monday" or "just last one dose" thing, so it like "game will be good in X years" or "next patch", its "just alpha/beta/recently released".

 

Question is, is it really so, or just mental acrobatics of coping? 

 

Because its not 5 years to just wait, its 5 years to survive having costly servers. Quite a difference. With current vector of events (if its not magicly changed), project will be closed and pretty much forgotten much faster. Like Tabula Rasa, per exemple. 

 

 

The quick death is preferable to the slow and more agonising one.

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Hearing about this upcoming demeter drop has been painful. I dont have much resources but I do own around 4 or 5 tiles on 3 different planets iirc. Havent played since 0.23 and all my friends quit last Dec. If territories are lost and the price we paid isnt refunded, my friends and I are NEVER coming back. If our constructs on those territories are not recoverable in a BP, we are NEVER coming back. 

 

After the 0.23 disaster, the only thing go do in game was mine and now NQ is taking that out? 

 

I cant resub for a month so I need to drop $20 to attempt to move my stuff back to sanctuary that was a death sentence a year ago but now it's the only place to go to escape taxes. I wish it was worth it but I'll never convince my friends to do this. 

 

If we ever hope to get people back, there has to be a solution that doesnt take people's progression. Nooone will come back if they lose everything

 

 

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On 11/8/2021 at 2:31 AM, CptLoRes said:

 

Yes, that was also my impression until NQ-Sesch said something to the effect of  "until release in some months" in the Demeter video.  Not sure if it was an actual slip, or just me putting meaning into something he said out of context. But the way he said it, I did not get the feeling he was talking about a Demeter patch release, but an actual game release. Sadly I forgot look a the timestamp when watching, and the video is to long for me to re-watch to find the time he said it.

 

The second clue is the "Welcome our new CEO" post.

 

Again, The wording in that sentence is open for interpretion, so I might be putting meaning into this that is not there.

 

 

They seem to remove or chase their tail redeveloping everything they make. If they think that this is anything resembling a feature complete game loop boy are they going to be mistaken when like 70% of the game quits with this cash grab when people realize they are being milked for a sub for like 10% of the resources they were getting or that they are now forced to play some kind of space communism sim for meager gains and quit.

 

Been having convos lately about will you still play if they suddenly said hey this game is considered live and now paying a sub for essentially no real game at this point and most of us paused and said yeah probably not.

 

Im sure other orgs have likely had that convo too and its a shame since this game had a lot of promise if NQ thinks this obvious play cash grab will work unless something drastically good or fun comes into existance since they seem to think what they have built will work while they have stripped any useability, fun, and time/cash sinks are somehow gameplay.

 

 

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On 11/8/2021 at 9:31 AM, CptLoRes said:

 

Yes, that was also my impression until NQ-Sesch said something to the effect of  "until release in some months" in the Demeter video.  Not sure if it was an actual slip, or just me putting meaning into something he said out of context.

 

So you were basically just making stuff up then?  and they HAVEN'T said or even hinted it will be launched this year? 

Like I said before, not sure why everyone is so invested in a game that hasnt actually launched, very odd.

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Just because you can read between the lines that NQ is bleeding money while now holding their hand out for more money, less content, nerfing & limiting all the content they made, positioning Universal Basic Ore towards a monthly sub model, simple systems like territory wars/player markets/ect that they could do litterrally today with boke flag football switches, putting limits on complexity of tiles, and somehow it dont suggest they are about to slam all this through before it blows up in their face since they are bleeding subs, players, and a following before the DU curious figure it out.

 

This might be your first MMO, but Ive played so many I can see a failing MMO from a mile away and all their dev toolbox of cashgrabs. If you cant see that its on you.

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On 10/29/2021 at 11:04 AM, Hagbard said:

Ok, usually i am not negative but the balance of Demeter on the PTS server has some severe problems.

 

1. Territory costs of 1m per week:
this will lead to almost nobody claiming any tiles any more outside of the sanc moon unless the territory can produce some serious income. so all "player made content" will disappear after some time

 

2. Scanning results do not get deleted and show l/h for mining units
this will lead to ALL really valuable tiles being claimed within the first 24h after demeter goes live, as it is really easy to identify  the most powerful tiles for mining units if you have containers full with scanner results.
so after day 1, the fun is over and the "mega tiles" will be claimed by those players/orgs that have all the existing scans.

 

NQ, as demeter is balanced on the PTS, it would kill the game if it goes to the live server

 

- New players some days later would not have a chance to find income opportunities despite missions.

- earning quanta will be a lot harder, so people would stop spending.. this would kill industrialists workflow.

- the imbalance between experienced players/orgs and new players would get worse and even more players would demand a wipe or simply not enjoy the game

please reconsider your decisions.

Hagbard.


 

I love you Hagbard, thank you for saying this more calmly than I can at the moment. I am so upset, I try not to be, I try to joke it off. but this is coming at a time where my entire RL is pretty much upside down in it's stability, so my only stress relief is now mirror the same chaos, loss, etc. 

Great post mate, great post.

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