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DEMETER PTS PREVIEW - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard
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On 10/29/2021 at 5:02 PM, Oborion said:

 

So it looks like after the preview video you snuck in a resource pool. If this continues to Live I would just like to say that I think having a tile become empty after spending all that effort to do the slow painful extraction process is REALLY REALLY annoying and I personally find it EXTREMELY discouraging.

 

These scan results  look like the ones that were accidentally pushed to live. I would bet that they are the same, and only place holders. They did not mention having a pool of finite ore that I have seen. 

 

As for the brakes, well, that is disappointing.  I tried to have the thrust vector  exposed on the ships I built.  Looking at the icon for air brakes, it looks like they may have an animation in the future, so they may have to face the direction of travel, and have clearance above them so the brake can pop up.

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Territory taxes of 1,000,000 seem a bit high after paying for the territories the first time.  Like I don't like the entire mission running system, and don't want to constantly have to do missions and mine for 1,000,000 quanta per territory each week.  Seems a bit like you are trying to make us play the game constantly.  I personally have 6 territories on Alioth that I have worked hard to get, and I don't see why I need to pay such a high upkeep cost on them all the time.

 

I think a reasonable cost associated with the slow pace of Dual Universe would be something like 1,000,000 every month or so.

 

Considering most missions to make quanta pay below 100k quanta for safe zone travel, this means I would have to spend time doing at least 10 missions per territory per week in order to pay for a territory if the cost of 1,000,000 quanta is carried to the live server.  Even to pay for one territory you would have to login at least 7 times per week in order to pay for the cost associated with 1 single territory.  At least other games are monthly or bi-weekly taxes, instead of weekly.  

 

If the economy was in significantly better shape in terms of the ease of making quanta by selling goods, then I could go along with a 1,000,000 quanta tax every week, but you can't even kill NPCs for quanta in this game yet.  

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  1. territory interface in the map still leads you to the center of the territory. NOT to the location of the territory unit.
    The wallet territory list, right click set as destination does take you to the TCU.
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2 hours ago, Tordan said:

image.thumb.png.ed87c64234ef6a5cc279a1c706bf48ed.png

 

Really?
How very 12th century.
What are we the purity police?

 

 

 

Oh yeah, Cancel Culture and the "progressive" woke crap are totally a higher priority than basically EVERYTHING else in this game which needs fixing

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Et avec tout ça, il faut calculer la rentabilité ?
Et surtout le prix de vente de votre T1 pour que votre investissement soit rentabilisé ?

 

Avez-vous estimé le temps qu'il faudra à un nouveau joueur ou à tout le monde s'il y a un wipe car certaines personnes veulent parvenir à avoir assez de quanta pour s'offrir un Hybrid pour aller creuser sur un astéroïde ?
Et surtout qui achètera votre minerai puisque tout le monde sera fauché ?

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8 hours ago, Rahzig said:

These scan results  look like the ones that were accidentally pushed to live. I would bet that they are the same, and only place holders. They did not mention having a pool of finite ore that I have seen. 

Yeah, I think that is just how it is showing existing scans. If you run new scans on PTS, you only see the pool column and not the ground resources. This looks like it is just terminology they are using with auto mining. You have a pool available to mine from and you can select only from that pool.

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14 hours ago, Orth_Tanic said:

I agree but I also think they are looking at feedback so I hope they are reading this forum and realize its a HUGE problem. 

True, just like with the player poll, whether there should be a resett of talent or not. Funny, the exact opposite was taken.

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2 hours ago, Tional said:

 

Compared to 36+ hours of mining meganodes?

 

I'll take it.

Then they calculate exactly how much time they have to invest - and Quanta, to mine the same amount of Meganodes, now with the mini-game or with the mini-units.

In the end, they stretch the time to generate ores in order to be able to build something from them by many times the current values and at the same time take quanta away from us. So the effort to get ores will be considerably higher. But well, if they have so much free time....I wanted to play a game in my free time that is fun and doesn't degenerate into a job. The MininUnits should actually relieve us, not burden us.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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After looking at the territory taxes,  I believe this is untenable.  Based upon the numbers I am seeing so far we are looking at 112M per week for 1 cluster per ore type T1-4.  We will be forced to produce less even with 1 less cluster which reduces the amount of money we can make.  Our warp beacon factory will be shut down since T5's are so scarce and our warp cell production cut to about 1/3 of the 23k per week we can produce now and a good portion of those would be used warping around every few days to maintain the mining bots.  This may very well be the straw that broke the camel's back as far as my future investment in this game.

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I'm quite happy with the taxes. In mid term they will kick off inactive players and free the occupied terretories for new players and maybe we can loot something.

And the new mining system will bring enough ore to pay the taxes more than once.

 

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I am testing the mining units on Iacobus.
I have three tiles, 1 with 34 ilmenite the 2nd with 30 ilmenite and the 3rd with 16 ilmenite.
My thought was a total of 80 liters of ilmenite per hour.
But no, it's 34 liters and the 20% adiacency and max skills make it only 46.92 liters per hour.
My point is that you cannot put a mining unit on all three tiles and remove the ore from each tile.
I think that the adiacency bonus is a punishment in some cases because you do have to pay the 1 mil taxes, but you get much less value in return.

dualuniverse_2021-10-30_13h29m09s.png

dualuniverse_2021-10-30_13h28m28s.png

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1: The numbers are way too low. They need to be upped significantly to be viable even without taxes. To make up for this you would need to up Asteroid Ore Nodes a lot, and greatly increase the number of safe zone asteroids, and start including rare ore spawns into the safe zone. There is a problem if you can mine more ore in less than a minute by playing cookie clicker surface mining then what using a powerful technological mining marvel can pull out in an hour.

2: The ore Market is already inflated, and that's with the ability to mine more Ore in an Hour Currently than you could in a couple weeks with a mining unit.  As it stands with current values, you will continue to wreck the player economy and market.

3: What's the point of adding adjacent territory bonus of 10% per territory, if you have to pay a heavy territory tax for that small boost to ore extraction. As with point 1, the numbers are way to low to justify this.

4: While I am a fan of using some elements in ship design to give them that rugged Sci-Fi look, forcing people to have to show every single element on a ship is just a bad decision. Some elements it makes sense. Hovers, Boosters, Engines being obstructed, makes sense. But when you need 50 brakes, and 100 wings to make a large ship flyable with cargo, not being able to hide some of those elements is just dumb.

5: I am glad the Space Industry not working is a bug. Taxing PvE Space Industry/Activities is another way to drive off more players. 

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1 hour ago, Ravenis said:

How new players are suppose to make money after these changes?

I guess spend hours mining surface rocks mindlessly clicking like you are playing Cookie Clicker and not a Civilization Building Space game. 

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6 minutes ago, ReconDo17 said:

How many threads are we going to make on this issue so far I believe this is the third on these forums alone

As many as it takes for NQ to realize that the way this is currently being implemented is a bad idea and will likely result in more people leaving the games already dwindling player base?

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4 hours ago, masmahal said:

I'm quite happy with the taxes. In mid term they will kick off inactive players and free the occupied terretories for new players and maybe we can loot something.

And the new mining system will bring enough ore to pay the taxes more than once.

 

There are ways to kick inactive players without taxing the current player base to death i.e. out of the game and yes and no on the mining will bring enough ore to pay the taxes if the prices of ore fall then what. Now we all know that is not likely to happen in the short term but it could then there would not be enough to pay the taxes and that is also a relative term and really driven by how many tiles each player owns. 

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7 minutes ago, Xarius said:

As many as it takes for NQ to realize that the way this is currently being implemented is a bad idea and will likely result in more people leaving the games already dwindling player base?

Oh no I get that and I there on all of them LOUD and PROUD voicing my concerns right along with everyone else and in game as well. I too feel the taxes are outrageous and I am pretty sure Entropy said monthly taxes not weekly 

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Demeter feedback:

 

  • Dropping the atmo-brake obstruction on us at this point is ridiculous. It should have been announced when you brought up element stacking. Let all the corrections happen at once. Also, why was there no obstruction on the brakes in the first place? What was the logic at the time and why the change of heart?
  • Mining Units are TERRITORY WARFARE. The ore pools are spread across multiple territories and as such someone in a neighboring tile can set up a bunch of mining units and take all the ore out of the pool. What determines which mining unit gets access to the ore: First started? Highest concentration? Random? This is DISTRESSING as hell. Not only is there going to be mad rush to find tiles, claim them, pay EXORBITANT taxes, but someone else will see very clearly there's something good to mine, plop down their own TCU and start stealing from your pool. NO. I AM NOT PLAYING THIS GAME.
  • Mining Units are BROKEN. I started a unit, performed the mini-game, and it was mining some ore -- it even ran an hour and put some ore in a container. Now I tested stopping it and starting it again.... and this is wear it broke. It's now producing 0L/hr. All the units in this pool are producing 0L/hr.
  • Mining Units are a POOR subtitle for ground mining - the income that's possible for active game play is NOTHING -- compile that with the fact that missions running is still broken and crazy profitable as ever pretty much leaves the majority of the player base at an even LARGER DISADVANTAGE than before.
  • Performance in general doesn't seem to have improved - but in fact, gotten worse.
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  • NQ-Pann unpinned this topic

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