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Will this be another Cyberpunk 2077 disaster?


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I was very excited back in the days when DU was initially announced and NQ made all these performance tests regarding the number of Nouveans being simulated/rendered at the same time.

 

I just played (tried to play) the tutorial in the latest beta release and I must say that I am very disappointed. I have a quite decent rig (GTX 1060 w/ 6GB, 16 GB RAM, i7-4770) which is for sure not top edge technology but which can run No Man's Sky with a steady 60 to 70 fps.

And then this in DU when playing the tutorial:  A maximum of 35 fps, stuttering all the time, very poor graphics, and sometimes even dropping down to a mere 3 (!) fps. Is this real? Yes, this is still beta, however, before even thinking of introducing new features or screwing on balancing issues,

NQ HAS TO FIRST MAKE THE GAME PLAYABLE!

I won't touch this game anymore before NQ comes up with DRASTIC performance improvements. I regret having bought the game in advance. Sorry, this currently looks like another Cyberpunk 2077 desaster. 😢

Edited by Thugaar
Typo.
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Performance takes a hit in the starting areas because there's a lot going on there.  Once you get away from them, it gets a lot better.

 

But what's wrong with Cyberpunk?  It doesn't really seem like a disaster to me.

 

My only problem with it so far, is it's cutting into my DU time.

 

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Another CP2077?? Are you trying to frame CP2077 as a disaster?
Sure it sucks donkey balls on older XBOXs and the PS4. But then those computers' hardwares are a joke by today's standards. They shouldn't have released it on the older platforms yet, sure... But disaster? Hardly.
 
Hell! Even comparing these two games is a bit of a joke. One is a largely on-the-rails, story driven, single player game game with literally tens of millions of units sold recouping their costs plus a significant profit before they even released... The other is a teeny-tiny budget indie SMO (slightly multiplayer online) game with probably less than 20,000 players.

There is just no comparison performancewise, either: I get solid 60fps at 4k (with DLSS in performance mode and Ray Tracing on ULTRA!!) on my Ryzen 9 / RTX 3080 rig... The GFX card fans and water cooler are quiet and well behaved.  There is a bug in the RTX code that slows the game down in bars when there are hundreds of bottles on shelves behind the barkeep, but that's it.

A typical scene like this of a random plaza at 4k with RTX and DLSS optimisation nets a rock solid 60FPS with my card temps in the 60s.
JuPAMzI.jpg

In DU, without any RTX, at 1440p on Sanctuary, away from the markets,  just looking at swaying grass makes the fans ramp up audibly and significantly. At times framerate drops to 30 or even less... The markets can sometimes drop even more while constructs are rezzing in.

This scene of a toilet and shower makes my H150i sound like a wind tunnel...

0iJ1izN.png

I admit to having a rather agressive cooling profile.. but still, 80% GPU utilisation for this means zero optimisation has taken place yet.

Oh, and the performance difference is not even taking into account that bugs have been found in CP2077 that actually dramatically slow down Ryzen CPUs with > 8 cores due to misidentification of anything other than Bulldozer (2011 spec Ryzen) having hyperthreading disabled!!!  Patch 1.0.5 will be released very soon which should help here, too.

The two games are impossible to compare....  It's an apples and oranges situation... No, scrap that, it's an apples and fridge magnet situation.

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1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

Another CP2077?? Are you trying to frame CP2077 as a disaster?


Yes, I do. I am not willing to buy a $2.5 K rig just to play DU (or any other game for that matter). And yes, Cyberpunk 2077 IS a disaster. Sony took it off from their sales page b/c of reasons. Never happened before in history. Again for reasons.

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2 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

"Performance takes a hit in the starting areas because there's a lot going on there. "

Well, where else should one START if not in the STARTING area? And if the game even goes kaboom in the starting area then something is really wrong with the game. Sorry.

EDIT: I didn't see anyone in the starting area except two or three ppl. What exactly is "going on there"??

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1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

They shouldn't have released it on the older platforms yet, sure.

But they did!!

And they announced it with a multi-million Dollar campaign! The fact that you are personally able and willing to spend lots of money for reasonable h/w doesn't mean that the average player should be forced to do the same. They took the game off from their sales page and this speaks volumes. If you are happy: fine. Millions of ppl are not.

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2 hours ago, Thugaar said:

Well, where else should one START if not in the STARTING area? And if the game even goes kaboom in the starting area then something is really wrong with the game. Sorry.

EDIT: I didn't see anyone in the starting area except two or three ppl. What exactly is "going on there"??

 

i wasn't suggesting you start somewhere else, just letting you know that performance is better once you leave the starting area.  DU is a Sandbox.  Most of the game world is an empty blank slate, except the starting area, where there's a bunch of stuff... get it?

 

It's just a simple fact.  take it or leave it.

 

The thing is, DU is the kind of game where your framerate really isn't that big of a deal anyway.  Sure it's always nice to have 60fps.  But this isn't a fast paced shooter, or a racing game.  lower fps isn't going to stop you from doing anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It could also be because the devs are horribad at programming. CptLoRes said this in another thread and it seems relevant here.

 

On 12/18/2020 at 2:32 AM, CptLoRes said:

The problem with blaming CPU bound on low FPS, is that with regard to DU the CPU is used to calculate voxels/stream server meshes. So there is a paradox here. Not being able to stream all the voxels in time (causing high CPU usage) should actually translate to less work for the GPU and higher fps. But this is clearly not happening in DU, and the effect we are seeing are typical for badly designed graphical systems that does not properly decouple CPU and GPU operations.

 

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5 hours ago, Thugaar said:


Yes, I do. I am not willing to buy a $2.5 K rig just to play DU (or any other game for that matter). And yes, Cyberpunk 2077 IS a disaster. Sony took it off from their sales page b/c of reasons. Never happened before in history. Again for reasons.

Amazing hot take....

 

DU runs WAY worse on my PC than cyberpunk...

 

Troll elsewhere - all your posts are moaning about how bad CP is...I've sunk 36 hours in so far and can't complain...

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8 hours ago, Thugaar said:

I just played (tried to play) the tutorial in the latest beta release and I must say that I am very disappointed. I have a quite decent rig (GTX 1060 w/ 6GB, 16 GB RAM, i7-4770) which is for sure not top edge technology but which can run No Man's Sky with a steady 60 to 70 fps.

 

Big question is what storage do you use, if HDD than that may well contribute to this performance. Also, what screen res?

 

Your hardware is throttling/capping the GPU performance due to a lower transfer speed to the PCie bus on the 4770, overall it's really a mid-low tier setup. It's been well documented here that DU uses tech which is needed for the voxel calculations which also is quite a drain on resources. That is not new, nor should it be a surprise. This is noot your average all prerendered models game. IT may not be for you sure but on top of all that you are also coming in at a stage where performance optimizations have really not yet been done. 

 

Also, the game takes some time on initial load to get al the cache data loaded in and set up, if your internet connection is not very fast, that may also contribute to the performance initially.

 

If this is not something you are willing to go with and if you do not have any short term plans to bring your hardware rig up to date from it's 2013 roots then sure.. the game may not be for you, at least not in it's current state.

 

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5 hours ago, Thugaar said:


Yes, I do. I am not willing to buy a $2.5 K rig just to play DU (or any other game for that matter). And yes, Cyberpunk 2077 IS a disaster. Sony took it off from their sales page b/c of reasons. Never happened before in history. Again for reasons.

Still not a disaster though. Poorly executed? Sure. Mistakes made? Sure. Disaster? Only if you consider making your money back before release day a disaster. 

 

also, If anyone believed they were going to get modern graphics on an Xbox or an olde PS4 then well, you know what they say about fools and their money. 
 

caveat emptor. 
 

they didn’t even see the game yet they preordered it ffs!!!  (I’m not talking KS backing here)... Why would you preorder something that has no physical stock limits?


At least wait for it to gather some reviews before downloading it. It’s not like it could ever run out of stock like a Ryzen 5900 or an RTX 3080 (both amazing, non disasters, by the way - just unavailable at list price if you don’t know where to look). 

 

 When you preorder something that hasn’t been developed yet, as opposed to preordering something that was made a while back, has been favorably or exceptionally well received by the press but has temporarily gone out of stock, well then all bets are of the table. You are basically crowdfunding their product in all it name. 


that’s why I say anyone who backed this game at KS or as a backer shouldn’t be eligible for a refund. Any anyone else not interested in backing should have limited their subscriptions to three months to be on the safe side. Or even waited at least for a few YouTube videos.  
 

people seem to be far too eager to hand over their greens then cry foul when they are gladly relieved of them in exchange for a product they had no idea about. 


CP2077 is outstandingly addictive by the way. 

Oh, and you can select the size of your assets. 😉 what’s not to like? 

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7 hours ago, Thugaar said:


Yes, I do. I am not willing to buy a $2.5 K rig just to play DU (or any other game for that matter). And yes, Cyberpunk 2077 IS a disaster. Sony took it off from their sales page b/c of reasons. Never happened before in history. Again for reasons.

BS. you dont need a 2.5K pc for any game. the good reputation of CD Project is heavily damaged but in terms of money its a huge success. alot of bugs but at its core (story/characters) its a 9/10.

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The problem is that we (pre-alpha testers) have been telling NQ since 2017 that the game has some fundamental and serious performance issues that they need so solve to actually have a playable game, regardless of how many other features they try to add to the game. And only just before the public 'beta' release did NQ actually put some effort into optimization with the server mesh feature that did improve things a lot. So imagine how bad it was before.. But in true NQ style the server mesh improvement did only address some of the symptoms, leaving the fundamental voxel/fps performance problems unsolved.

So we are never going to see the fabled community driven cities and large space stations (space cities) that JC used to talk about (notice he doesn't talk about that any more), with a game engine that can't even handle the district markets.

 

So DU and Cyberpunk are actually very similar in this regard, trying to build a complete game/add features onto a shaky foundation using quick patches on top of quick patches.

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1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

 

So we are never going to see the fabled community driven cities and large space stations (space cities) that JC used to talk about (notice he doesn't talk about that any more), with a game engine that can't even handle the district markets.

 

Another reason we will never see those is because they first told us we could build them, then they showed they could be build and we should all build our dreams!!! And then came the restrictions for: Performance, Pvp, PvP, statics have no goal, pvp, why would anyone build statics so more restrictions on dynamic, flying is to easy more restrictions, pvp, industry is cheap this hurts pvp,, etcetera.

so after killing of most ideas and hopes for small organizations to push everyone in some large organization there is only a need of a few people with ideas and telling a few individuals about what is going to change or what is bugged and can be exploited does not help. DU was promised as build in freedom everything you want, combination of minecraft and eve, pure freedom... But in the end apparently it can only live with enough PVP people and thus is alot restricted to push in that direction.

 

Once there was a posibility to actually build a +8km dynamic space city with merchant zones and industry, now it lives on in Space engineers because clang is much more forgiving then general restrictions.

 

And because everytime someone shouts, they never said that, here is the kickstarter page that holds all the info:

 

image.png.105eea33db1c76c1e85102cf124a3d4c.png

 

 

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8 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

Big question is what storage do you use, if HDD than that may well contribute to this performance. Also, what screen res?

 

Your hardware is throttling/capping the GPU performance due to a lower transfer speed to the PCie bus on the 4770, overall it's really a mid-low tier setup. It's been well documented here that DU uses tech which is needed for the voxel calculations which also is quite a drain on resources. That is not new, nor should it be a surprise. This is noot your average all prerendered models game. IT may not be for you sure but on top of all that you are also coming in at a stage where performance optimizations have really not yet been done. 

 

Also, the game takes some time on initial load to get al the cache data loaded in and set up, if your internet connection is not very fast, that may also contribute to the performance initially.

 

If this is not something you are willing to go with and if you do not have any short term plans to bring your hardware rig up to date from it's 2013 roots then sure.. the game may not be for you, at least not in it's current state.

 

I had a way worse rig than him (i5 2500) when I first joined and I can relate to his pain, but it's true that once you leave alioth it becomes fairly playable.

Now I upgraded to a 5600x with 32gb ram, nvme, 1070, and I get a solid 14fps while flying my M core :D

I believe it's due to the stupid amount of xs wings I had to hide inside said ship to make it fly properly (it's a replica, didn't want to ruin its shape by placing M wings all around).

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17 hours ago, Emptiness said:

It could also be because the devs are horribad at programming. CptLoRes said this in another thread and it seems relevant here.

 

I find it odd to suggest that someone might be horrible at doing something that literally no one else has done, and that you have literally no idea how to do yourself.

 

Horrible compared to what?  Who's doing it better?

 

NQ could have just waited another ten years for technology to catch up to the point that they could make a game like this, with AAA graphics and framerate.

 

But personally i'm glad i don't have to wait.

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On 12/19/2020 at 7:53 PM, DanilShe said:

Right now I'm installing GTAV) I'm suspending playing DU untill they get rid of buying schematics. Cyberpunk2077 is awful. My colleagues tried it... well... it's buggy shitty crap right now.

CP2077 is a great if imperfect successor to the Bethesda RPG,  it runs great on my low-mid gaming pc (1660 Super) on High - old consoles got screwed though.

 

it’s just not the greatest GTA like sandbox game + the greatest ever Bethesda like RPG in one package.

 

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15 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Once there was a posibility to actually build a +8km dynamic space city with merchant zones and industry, now it lives on in Space engineers because clang is much more forgiving then general restrictions.

 

Clang was mostly banished in Space Engineers several patches ago.. ;)

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20 hours ago, Detroitdregs said:

CP2077 is a great if imperfect successor to the Bethesda RPG,  it runs great on my low-mid gaming pc (1660 Super) on High - old consoles got screwed though.

 

it’s just not the greatest GTA like sandbox game + the greatest ever Bethesda like RPG in one package.

 

I believe CP2077 will be a great game. After a patch or two...

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