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[Discuss] We've Heard You!


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2 minutes ago, vylqun said:

to be honest, you still can do that. Its perfectly possible to craft a good xs ship with T1 elements completely with your nanocrafter. Without any schematics involved.

Yea I suppose that's true, but I'm not very interested in this game anymore.

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3 minutes ago, TheonlyLoki said:

Fix the market UI, make it more useable, let people research new schematics and sell what they learned, let us salvage everything, stop trying to force people to play the way you want them to, give them the tools to play whatever way suits them and make your desires a VIABLE path...

I think you should be carefull with reseaching schematics. It can cause players with multiple accounts into a more pay to win model by having each account research schematics offline and sell them when they are back in game.

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You should keep the restoration lives on elements. Just maybe give more lives in it while in beta, because if we crash during disconnection or game crush, it seems not fair to pay for that. If its sloppy piloting,  thats different story. And specific tool to just swap destroyed elements would be good. Without messing with re-linking everything. Some simple ships doesn't create a problem with it, but more complex ships really hard to figure out what goes where.

And about Rdms. Instead of locking everything up,  maybe there should be a place in game, where creators can register their creations. With setting up rules for copying or modifiyng their creations. Like simple fee for creating BP from the ship or other construct with depositing quanta directly to creator's wallet. That will simplify everything. Now creators of some constructs not even playing,  leaving us with ships you can't modify according to game changes 

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Couldn't you just do what most MMO's do and just fuse the systems together? Like what if anyone could craft a white space engine, but only the powerful merchant guilds could craft gold legendary ones? If you were to follow Neverwinter Night's gem system... then you need so many high level items that usually come from bosses so unless you can spend a lot of money it takes a very long time to get super high quality power. However... anyone can play the game, continuously grow, and enjoy the gameplay. It was criticized for being Pay-to-Win and even Elder Scrolls Online has a similar system where in order to upgrade the quality of an item it takes more and more increasingly rare and valuable materials. Those items have retained worth over the course of 5 years.

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1 hour ago, Volkier said:

I don't think the durability changes go far enough to be honest - though it's a major step in the right direction. You are still discouraging player interaction as any element with less than 3 lives is worthless as an element to the victor of pvp. While at the very least they get some sort of compensation - like schematics back - it's still a matter of diminishing returns and a discentive to take your ship out.


Needless to say, you still - under the proposed changes -

 - Have the issue of decorative elements being completely discouraged, opting the pvp meta to be empty box shells of ships

 - Player interaction for pvp is still discouraged
 - Moving further into the future, expanding gameplay options for salvaging and exploration are limited and discouraged

I sincerely urge NQ to scrap the "limited lives" durability model and re-evaluate better alternatives to how element destruction and the need for new elements from the market is handled. There are a multitude of better alternatives suggested across forums - I won't do a self promotion plug again since I don't care what it is to be honest, as long as it's not the restrictive and gameplay penalising system that exists at present. Once again, to re-iterate - the present choice of limited lives of elements has been universally the least popular mechanic for durability in every multiplayer game that has tried it since the 90s. And for very good reasons.

EDIT: The DRM introduction also makes capturing ships not feel like... captured ships. Half of the appeal of pirates to capture ships was for underground lua script market. If you want player interaction, you need to want player interaction - not attempt to socially engineer what kind of interaction you want the players to have. Can't have it both ways.

As far as DRM goes I think the addition of a cracking mechanic, take hardware with a scrip, put it into the cracking machine and it takes time to break the encryption and supplies the element back at the end with DRM removed. in that way you could also have a machine to encrypt the elements in the first place, everything comes with t1 crypto and you have to increase the encryption using the same machine, character skills can then be used to increase the tier of the encryption/decryption taking longer and decreasing the time to crack respectively. This generates a skill contest between the maker and the breaker adding to the universe depth while not penalising makers that happen to have a ship sold to a bad pilot or straight competitor's smurf.

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This game was starting to look like comicon. So much culture and art being displayed. People were able to represent themselves like never before in this game. There are people still playing minecraft in creative mode to this day, and the gameplay hours in that are literally astonishing. Minecraft was the number 2 most popular game. When you place such heavy logical restraints on people, you make it much harder for new people to get into the game, and you stifle a whole lot of creative energy. Going this direction, certainly limits you from having the potential of a game like minecraft.

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I just love how there are folks that still talk about industry and producing items means end game. What in the world is end game in a sandbox, you make your own gameplay!


First things first, you cannot POOF something out of thin air in industry, aside from oxygen and hydrogen, those people SPENT TIME MINING or BOUGHT THE MATERIALS to build what they want, they don't just pull it out of their asses. Don't act like they have not worked to get what they are building or act like it is easy, flying around and hauling ore solo is no easy task, its tedious and time consuming, WORK WAS ALWAYS PUT IN.


Just because you don't have the same amount of efficiency and/or time as them does not mean you should invalidate what they have achieved!


Secondly, element destruction should not be in until the server is stable and there are little to no flying bugs because I am sure NQ's support ticket system are exploding just like the ships in game.


Lastly, PVP boys try to hold back the salt, otherwise the very people you were harvesting it from the last week will take it all back, we know you're still shafted. But lets be honest the PVP isn't that hot right now till they introduce territory warfare. 



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26 minutes ago, WakeRider said:

So you guys at NQ still do not get it at all!


I completely agree with the vision of a community working together. Good plan. 


Capital costs in the way of schematics no matter how high will not help and will actually hurt your goal. Look at warp cell prices that are already back at or under production cost.   


If you want to accomplish this you must have a mechanism to either limit total production by accountable to or increase the incremental cost of items as the factory run by an account gets larger. 


That way someone that makes nothing but screws can do it at a really low cost but if you wanna do everything to make a L atmosphere it is slightly more expensive, and if you wanna build a AGG all buy yourself it it terribly inefficient. 


If you did that and tied the limits to accounts it would not only drive your goal but also drive subscriptions. Win win!

Warp cell prices are fine, my production cost is way below current market price

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1 hour ago, NQ-Naunet said:

Hi guys,

Just popping in to say thank you to everybody who took time out of their days over the past couple of weeks to write extensive feedback here on the forums.

The community team was able to collect and present your thoughts to the rest of the NQ which ultimately led to this evening's write-up from JC. :) 

Even if you're not 100% satisfied with the changes we're making to 0.23, I hope that this at least demonstrates that we do indeed read, digest and execute on your valuable questions, concerns and suggestions.

Hello all,


Unfortunately, I have to say something negative first. Many of our org gave you extensive feedback during the alpha and even towards the end of the alpha, myself included.
The core feedback was to make the game harder!
At beta release, the exact opposite happened.  And then the thing rolled ...but in the wrong direction.... 😢

What I can say about this is don't just listen to the ATV, and don't just listen to the forum writers.  ---> Listen to the very detailed feedback you get and have gotten in bug reports from all players. There are so many good suggestions when/after a bug/problem is described and sent to you guys!


Now, what I can suggest on the comment of patch 0.23:
First, good that you listened to the community (even though I was happy with the patch, I guess a large number of player was not).

As for the markets:
-You forced -all players into the markets with the last patch. For me, as a player interested in trading, I started trading at the markets. But for many it wasn't a good big (forced)change....
-If you start looking intensively at markets now. Please don't look very closely now or in the next few weeks, because more than half of the active players are raiding their containments/stores and dumping them on the market to get some quick cash, completely ignoring crafting costs!! This does not reflect normal market behavior or prices. ;)
-If you want a player-driven market, let the community build it and don't try to interact too much. At the end of alpha testing, we were close to getting a player-driven market.   <-> Then the bots came (with all the items and not well thought out prices) without any need/announcement, unfortunately.
-just a hint at the end: the market bot orders, which were set to buy ores for 25/50 per liter, are at some points completely empty

Test server:
-very glad you listened to the great feedback - very good change and keep it up so no one has an advantage when a new patch goes live! :)
-also i suggest to publish patch notes regularly, maybe in advance ;) but pleeeease for the test server and the official server separately and in time

Change schemes or other prices:

-Please keep in mind that not only one formula makes the perfect price. Go into the game, watch players and ask players who work with the given things ingame and calculate exactly and check EVERY item&scheme manually if this seems to be a good price. (some examples in ticket#40743)

Upcoming changes:
-Please don't unmindfully convert schematics into too low quanta effort. In my opinion, schematic costs are good/acceptable at the moment, except for the very high tiers.... Acquiring billions of quanta is more than far away.
I know and i was definitely at that point in alpha,  that the late-game items were too easy to get. But billions just to get the schematic is a bit much.
-The item life changes were awesome to get markets going - so please dont stepback and destroy the idea of having to replace an item after x repairs.
Maybe the core thing is a bit too hard for many, but after 3 full element demolitions it is acceptable to replace it with another. - Maybe implement a warning when an element has only 1 life left
aaaaand please exclude decorations completely 😌


We are all waiting for the mission system :) Hope you guys have a good solution what works properly in DU.
We are looking forward to giving missions/assignments to the players by ourselves. But keep in mind that there has to be a 100% certain outcome of what you can expect when you accept a mission.

Now I think I have written enough for now.

Thank you for your hard work and open-mindedness to suggestions and stay healthy!

I wish you all a Merry Christmas in advance! 🎅

Many greetings

ps: sorry for my bad english, but i hope you can understand most of it:)

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Has NQ considered a nanocraft recipe to upgrade basic level hardware with a widget bought from bot? People have HUGE factories full of basic lvl machines which are mostly useless. I would love to be able to upgrade some existing hardware and understand NQ wants that to have some cost. It's heartbreaking to see a factory that had so much effort poured into it, not economically viable or useful. 

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Would it hurt so bad to just think before you release something?

It really feels like NQ is understaffed and just making things up as they go along.


Please think of the impact you bring to players with your changes. especially if you charge us to play this beta (which is a misnomer since it is in no way feature complete btw).

* wiping talent points for everyone, ... i needed 30+ minutes to get em all set up again. yes 1 by 1 ffs. You could have given people a 1 time use item that wipes talents if they wish so. 

* introducing industry overhaul AND element destruction in 1 patch. Go figure people are mad. Nobody is producing that niche item they have to replace now.

* dialing back schematic prices, nice, but  how about all the money we sunk into it. every single org dumped all of the available money into getting the industry up and running again. how about some reimbursements there? you mention to do so for high priced schematics, what are those? which ones are high priced?

* remember when you clicked execute on that query to clear constructs from the markets and that query apparently wasn't tested properly? we all know what happened then


I think, and this is an unpopular and honest opinion, that this game was not ready to be pay to play. It will be one day, I'm sure. but this alpha in beta clothes is not ready to be called a game just yet.

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As it was, the current state of the game consisted mostly of isolated islands of players playing in almost full autonomy. A single-player game where players happened to share the same game world but with little interactions.


While I appreciate Naunet posting this, I hear JC talking in this post. And this is where you show us you do not actually understand your own game NQ.


I predicted that this "we heard you" would be a clever spin attempt on the unrest and feedback by not really changing anything and by not actually acknowledging NQ is working backwards. This is all about NQ's fear of losing their player base and they think that will happen because we get bored of the existing gameplay. Meanwhile several streamers have dropped DU from their schedules as their content pretty much dries up with these changes which make it impossible for them to build an interesting and fun experience for their viewership. The statistics do not lie and the count of DU streamers is generally low single digits with low triple number viewer counts and declining.


You heard nothing really NQ, you just decided that you did not explain yourself clear enough because you are right and everyone else just does not understand so you try again.. 



The ones playing in full autonomy are actually the ones who are the least impacted by these changes; the big orgs. They have stockpiled materials and mass produced components and elements prior to the0.23 rollout due to prior knowledge of the changes.


Big organisator have no need to use the markets. They are entirely self sufficient and inward looking and as such are a major part of why the economy does not start. Amongst other things, we saw that expensive elements were massively bought up as soon as the dev blog dropped (as in almost instantly) and  prior to this there was a sudden high demand for L cores with many bought up as well. We now know why. Small groups and solo players do not have a problem using markets if there is supply which really is not the case for many items. The reason is that the big orgs build their own stuff for themselves and may only drop stuff on the markets if they have surplus. Also if someone would start to sell items, they would generally get bought up en mass and put back on the market at higher prices or surplus would be put on the markets at prices which undercut by so much that the small guy's revenue stream pretty much dries up instantly.


Industry at scale is now pretty much the sole domain of the big orgs with deep pockets and the rest is left to pick up the scraps. orgs can and will not determine what is or is not on market and at what price. the changes as they are pretty much lock  out the rest as the initial investment is too much with the very limited resources to pay for them and at the same time resources now are pretty much used to buy stuff, not to build stuff.. Ore has become the actual currency in the game. And these latest changes will not make a difference there as te damage is already done.


It just feels like JC/NQ want to build a RL simulator and by pushing that idea, no matter what we bring to the table, problem is that a game first and foremost needs to be _FUN_ .. If I were into what JC wants to achieve I'd study economics and get a job to match. I do not need a second job really.


Overall I'd say you may have heard us NQ, but you failed to listen. You just think you are rights and everyone else is wrong. I've said it before, the industry changes are fine in itself but they should be put in after you facilitate the means to achieve building industry. Your attempt  at justification for the changes both misses the point and is quite contradictory to your intent. Here is how I believe this could work and maintain engagement for your player base:


  • Bring in means to make more money and get set up in game.
  • Develop fun ways to go out and enjoy or create content, gaining assets in the process.
  • Seed the _world_ with valuable items for the markets which will allow PLAYERS to trade with PLAYERS and not seed markets using bots.
  • Create a need/desire to co operate by bringing engaging and challenging events to the game on a permanent basis.
  • Create opportunity for the many smart and creative players by exposing data that drives content creation that aids the game.


And more but these things have been brought up so many times by now it's clear NQ has no intention to consider anything but their own reality bubble vision which entirely originates form what JC wants and not what the players are actually doing, asking for, looking  for, talking about.


0.23 spans the cart  before the horse, it's actually a pretty cool cart but without the horse the players are left to pull it themselves which turns the game into a grind of massive proportions. Yes what is suggested above will create wealth for players and would make the existing (pre 0.23) game design not viable but guess what, it would create interest and engagement form the community and player base to the point  where (I absolutely believe) NQ would be able to bring in the 0.23 changes with a wipe as it is clear that it would not be long for us to rebuild with all the fun stuff to do in game.

I believe many are against a wipe because of the massive grind it would take to rebuild. I also believe that once the game shows the potential to rebuild quickly and grow into the changes 0.23 offers this becomes more of a challenge than a grind and that is where it becomes interesting. More people wil band together and co-operate, the massive benefits and advantages gained from exploits, loopholes and favors for some is cleared and the large orgs wil l still have a big but fair advantage due to their numbers..


Don't "hear" NQ, listen.. It's hard, I know, and it may mean you will have to (further) change your initial and current ideas but you will gain an important thing, a player base which is engaged and active, building tools, setting examples and co-operating in and outside of the game.. Just like I still hope you originally intended the game to be.


DU is too great a promise with too much potential to be stifled and eroded by a false sense of missing your vision, it's not doing that and your game now belongs to the players, you should cater to their needs and wants where you can while using your vision as a guide, not a rulebook.

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As one redditor already said... adding mission systems won't add much.. I mean... think about it... what would the missions be? More mining? Yes. Only now for someone else. There is nothing in this game I would put a mission out for. Except maybe trapping The God of PVP in a borg cube.

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Agree with the damage on ship elements. 


I know how to fly, haven't 'accidently' crashed a ship since my first rendezvous with Thades over a month ago on a self made 6kt interplanetary hauler.  Had to make a smaller warp drive ship to conserve warp cells for now.  The maiden flight from Thades to Alioth markets was the most stressful time I have ever had in this game.  Made it into atmo fine, cruising to market at 1000m altitude and the Alioth lag starts to hit, or combo of my own internet+alioth, and I get spam disconnect messages which, of course, locks you out of controls while the message is displayed, spamming repeatedly between enter to close the pop up and ctrl+c to control descent.  Few minutes of trying to land, to no avail, activate emergency beacon and log off as last resort.  Log back in some minutes later, I lose track loading into Alioth, and my ship is hovering some 200m above the ground and I am spawned onto it.  Try to activate the chair and it says its already being used, after about 5 seconds of trying to activate the seat and land, the ship just takes off back at cruising speed and crashes right the ground, game crashes, I relog.  Ship is back in the air, not crashed, same thing with the seat except this time I fall off the ship and as I'm looking at it hover into the air it launches off at full speed and crashes on the ground in front of me.  No relog to save me this time, I restore the elements and repair with whatever gold scrap I carry on me.  Whatever, 1 durability down, I continue on to Alioth, Get spammed with player disconnect messages -30 tries remaining, etc, and decide to log out and give it a rest for awhile.  Log back in some time later, same deal with hovering ship and launching head on into the ground in front of me. 


I restore the elements again, repair, log off.  Cannot afford to replace them just yet and do not want to crash again from no fault of my own and blow an entire warp drive XS core.  I am already forced to spend my entire time since patch mining and hauling ore to be able to replace my own ship parts, but I'm still about a week out on that.


I understand the need for the patch, and the removal of elements, but only if there is a way to determine if it was the fault of player or the game...which I guess limiting to PVP for now may be a way to control this.


Your game is fked up sometimes and you know it, and never once have I had a problem with crashing my fault or not.  I just repair and move on, I cant do that anymore.  You forced me into cycle of mining and hauling and selling to markets, which I had learned to avoid because this is not the first time I have encountered the aforementioned game problem.  I have two subscriptions, first time I have ever thought about cancelling since beta was yesterday.  


You will apply compensation for overprice schematics purchased, but will you provide compensation from element durability loss/destruction since 0.23?  Rollback to .23 day 1 with updated patch would be fair I think, worst week I had playing this game...so far, anyways.

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5 minutes ago, IvanGrozniy said:

As one redditor already said... adding mission systems won't add much.. I mean... think about it... what would the missions be? More mining? Yes. Only now for someone else. There is nothing in this game I would put a mission out for. Except maybe trapping The God of PVP in a borg cube.

A bit off topic here but I can see missions work great in an organisation context.

* base 1 on alioth needs X material which is mined and refined on base 2 on madis 

put out a mission so you can properly pay your logistics guys.

* while i'm working on ships I bought items on X,  I need someone to go pick them up and bring them here, 
* Previous mission but substitute bought with: 'the org factory made X and Y for you, someone has to pick those things up and transport them to me, cus I don't have a cargo ship..."
* The org produced tonnes of goods to sell. Someone needs to come and take those to a market to sell

* i want to upgrade my ship, i'm looking for a person with piloting skills lvl 5 to replace my fuel tanks and engines...



It all depends if they are going to give us the tools to make the missions or if they are going to just give us some pre-made missions without mutch diversity.

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I don't think removing element damage was necessary - it just needed to scale with the quality/complexity of the element.


Something along the lines of:

T1 Element - 8 Restorations for collisions

T2 Element - 7 Restorations for collisions

T3 Element - 6 Restorations for collisions

T4 Element - 5 Restorations for collisions

T5 Element - 4 Restorations for collisions


Perhaps then make it to where weapon damage removes 2 restoration points, instead of 1.


Now, core damage? Yeah, that needed to change. I think upping the HPs  considerably, and lowering collision damage on them

would benefit both PvP and non-PvP. For one, it'll make it harder to lose one in a crash, with the benefit of making ramming a non-option.

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11 minutes ago, sander said:

A bit off topic here but I can see missions work great in an organisation context.


That is pretty much the problem though, everything NQ does plays directly into the hands of the big orgs and only makes them stronger while anyone outside of them gains very little, if anything, from them.


As long as NQ will allow the status quo for big orgs to remain in place, nothing of what they are looking for to change will happen.

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2 hours ago, sander said:

A bit off topic here but I can see missions work great in an organisation context.

* base 1 on alioth needs X material which is mined and refined on base 2 on madis 

put out a mission so you can properly pay your logistics guys.

* while i'm working on ships I bought items on X,  I need someone to go pick them up and bring them here, 
* Previous mission but substitute bought with: 'the org factory made X and Y for you, someone has to pick those things up and transport them to me, cus I don't have a cargo ship..."
* The org produced tonnes of goods to sell. Someone needs to come and take those to a market to sell

* i want to upgrade my ship, i'm looking for a person with piloting skills lvl 5 to replace my fuel tanks and engines...



It all depends if they are going to give us the tools to make the missions or if they are going to just give us some pre-made missions without mutch diversity.

Don't forget "Those bastards from (insert org name) did it again. Another freighter down... I need you to hit them where it hurts!

Mission: Destroy X enemy ships belonging to (insert org/player name).


Now, the key (and problem) is tracking. The game itself has to know when a given missions completion parameters are met, so

the more open ended you make it, the more things the system is going to have to be able to account for. There *absolutely*

needs to be a text input, not just drop down menus, to personalize them and provide some context/player made lorecrafting.

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My take away:


They (NQ) at least heard the majority of the community to do something like this. Whether it was because of a hit to the pocketbook, or just the good (yes there was some) feedback that most likely came to them through a combination of discord, support tickets and the forum, it looks like they are attempting to slow down a crippling blow while they work on other areas to make this more than a type of 'minecraft in space'. While I am still skeptical, after seeing NQ's response in a relatively short time seems promising to me.


My thoughts:


It looks like an olive branch offering and doesn't fix everything, however, it appears to be an honest attempt. I realize they are likely to re-implement the full force of the black update but am willing to consider it AFTER they fix the bugs, make other income available, get rid of bots, etc. I agree with many that the game was released too early but well, here it is and I highly doubt there's anyway to turn back now for NQ. It's likely become an all or nothing situation for them.


My basic suggestions in this order:


1 - Go through all those suggestions they say they read again and consider one final reversal to some of the changes.


2 - Begin correcting all the major crashing/lagging bugs that stick us in the middle of an invisible tower or explodes us inexplicably. Set up rights better and get the junk off the field. I still think using the game launcher as a way to make announcements would be good.


3 - Create as many other game play opportunities with rewards as possible. Skeletal frameworks would even be helpful. Create a couple of NPC orgs with a basic reputation system available to be seen by all. Continue with ways for players to effectively communicate ingame whether everyone is logged in or not. Give players a way to exchange money directly for now with better improvements later. Work on tutorials that assist in whatever type of play is currently ingame, such as miner, industry, pirate. Those can give a beginning player just enough to start at the bottom of their chosen field. After this cut the welfare check down but not out.


4 - Move to a basic, much better, PvP system. Fix the core repair system. Make a repair control chair to open up engineering on a ship so someone can effect repairs while in flight. We need the truckers to haul. When they are hauling, they need to be aware from the start players may attack so this isn't a big shock to them later. GET RID OF THE MARKET BOTS PLEASE. By this time, other basic income from missions, players paying players, should be emerging.


5 - Make a list of the most popular, wanted, used jobs that the players have at this time and make a list. i.e. miners, merchants, haulers, pirates, police, factories, explorers, creators, market moguls, salvagers, and anything else that may crop up that noone can foresee right now. Expand a bit more in the PvE and drop the welfare check completely if the market can handle it.


6 - Divide NQ devs team into content and development with monster share in development. Have the content team expand on the NPC side, pre-created missions, ships, etc. and they rotate through that list, adding something or improving NPC's for miners, then merchants, and so-on, nerfing or buffing where needed. Have the Development team work on the overall end dream of the game. Add the major ideas of the game like extra solar systems, territory warfare, expanding the UI of all aspects of the game, etc.


All of these steps or any steps you already have, should ALWAYS be fluid... think OOP where you can change or add as makes sense. Steps in a game like this should never be rigid or set in stone. I could go into much further detail, but don't see a reason to at this time. Hopefully some of my suggestions at least make sense, I just got off work in RL and am already tired. 😄



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35 minutes ago, SSampson said:

I am starting to think that I am the only one that care about docking ships. 

It really is horrible and was way worse after the patch.  Blew up Snow White trying to dock the dwaves on it, took a support ticket to even repair it.


With a lot of trial and error we came up with the 3 docking rules that seem to work:


1.  Stand on the ground while docking with the maneuver tool, DO NOT stand on any dynamic construct. Space station docking is rough.  Turning off any ECU's is usually a good idea.

2. You have to see the surface you are docking to (its apparently client side). Plopping down a ship like a basketball through a hoop onto a deck from the ground is no bueno.  Dock to the side or a slope you can see at least part of.

3. if it fails, it should slide off or move a bit when you let go.  IF it sticks solidly then it should be good.  Pick up the bigger vehicle with the maneuver tool and give it a test spin and pray.


We think it might have always required these steps but pre hell-patch it didnt blow up your ship when it failed.

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1 hour ago, Billy_Boola said:

 I doubt that, there was a lot of noise by a vocal minority, I doubt many people left over this and most of those that did were going to leave anyway, it's early days for DU and a lot of players that started playing the beta were always going to decide that it isn't their sort of game while others decide it is their type of game

Dream on.  I've been playing since January of 2018 and am seriously considering moving on.  I'm just waiting to see how long it takes for these recent promises to actually happen, and if they do more than just a surface change (like do the damage counters get reset?  Will we be reimbursed for core's we have had to replace?  etc.)  Personally I'm also watching the bug report system:  JC indicated they were about caught up.  I've submitted major bugs, with logs, like the 10GB memory leak per km when running on Madis back on the 11th and haven't received any non-automated feedback yet, nor seen a client patch come out.  The longer it takes, the more disenchanted I'm becoming.

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