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The data NQ gathers will be used to inform decisions on the game experience. If you can provide clear feedback, the dev team will get it right. If you use free speech without focusing on the feedback using idioms, lingo and hyperbole you will provide a bad feedback.

You need to be able to communicate what the issue is, but dont focus spend excessive time on your emotions and frustations. You need to be clear, polite and to the point.

At the end of the day, we are all people here and we all have the same goal in mind, to create a masterpiece.

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NQ is trying to sell an early alpha state development as a released game in beta as a paid for live service game. They are not owning up to their commitment and promises set out starting from kickstarter and continue to water down the game.

 

They are trying to make things work but due to the way they designed the game are not able to build complete game loops to facilitate that and seem unwilling to make changes to be able to actually do that by introducing PVE content which is needed to make mechanics work and instead think that they can save the game by introducing a Battle Royal mode and a creative sandbox mode.

 

They think that the mission system is the silver bullet that will solve all problems, they think that by adding a magic "available power" number to tiles they can create power management that is immersive and attractive. They do not consider options and suggestion that actually trigger gameplay for all game play styles and make the game complex, strategic and emergent.

 

If players find creative ways to play without affecting others, they nerf these options. If players find creative ways to play while impacting others  though creating obstacles and risk for others with the same end goal/effect, NQ thinks that's fine and really cool.

 

They say that the industry changes are what was always intended but they were not ready and the result was that  too many player got to "endgame" content (whatever that means) too fast.. Thing is, the changes do not take that endgame content away, it just denies those that did not get there yet for whatever reason the ability to do so while the ones that did will be able to carry on . NQ pretty much is of the opinion that as a solo player or small group you have no problem as you can just pay others whatever they want to ask for by using te markets.

 

Large orgs can isolate entirely from the in game economy and fend for themselves regardless of the changes because it hardly affects them as they have already stocked up and have so much money they can just blanket buy what other will have to work weeks, if not months for to get to. _THAT_  is what the economy is not starting, the isolationist behavior is not with the "small guy", it is with the big orgs who have build their own infrastructure internally, and did so to some degree by using early exploits, loopholes and possibly insider info, and have zero need or incentive to use or feed markets/the economy outside of dumping surplus at whatever price they desire to set for it and/or use their position to undercut and push out anyone trying to get a piece of the pie.

 

Yes, it would certainly cause a setback for many who worked hard to build a small business for themselves in game but the only way to correct the stranglehold the big orgs already have on the game will be to wipe and allow everyone to build their dream on even footing after massive changes are introduced which really are the definition of alpha state of development for a game.

 

 

To quote myself from Discord;

 

logic.PNG

 

 

 

And yes, I do feel I am being "clear, polite and to the point."

 

 

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Players who dont survive this patch they wont survive in the future when the rest of the game is here. Territory Warfare, Permanent damage, Energy system when we all have to re-think and re-design re-allocate factory on different tiles, so on and so forth.

This game is not ment to reach instant gratification. Imagine Eve Day1, 2004 1st month. 3 months later we flying with Avatars around Jita? That is what happened in DU...and its ok. We've learned the lessons. As ive said it on DU discord, the info we have in game atm can and will be used by NQ to gather data in order to confirm 0.23 to be working and move futher in development.

Removal of MegaNodes from the game, make average numbers on T1/2 similar on all planets while you keep T3-T5 exactly the same on the game (ore can be reset later on next year, maybe at release or when TW comes) is another good thing that will slow down the progress and confirm a working economy. It is hard? Yes. Will it be harder? Yes. But no matter how many adjustments they make now...THE FUTURE PATCHES are even harder. 0.23 is nothing compared with Atmosphere pvp patch and permanent loss on elements.

Hat off to everyone who is working outside DU.exe to make this game great again!

PS: Bring them elements skins on the game + gift to accounts :)

o/

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4 hours ago, Elitez said:

If you can provide clear feedback, the dev team will get it right.

Aww - you think they care what we think - that's cute.

 

https://dualuniverse.featureupvote.com/suggestions/122819/recipes-as-items-industry-balancing

 

Read through the feedback for the proposed schematics change from October - they totally cared what we thought.

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Yeah a lot of players don't seem to understand the vision of the game, and they get shocked when more of the vision gets implemented in a patch. NQ might tweak and change things based on the feedback, but it's going to go in that general direction.

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13 minutes ago, Haunty said:

Yeah a lot of players don't seem to understand the vision of the game, and they get shocked when more of the vision gets implemented in a patch. NQ might tweak and change things based on the feedback, but it's going to go in that general direction.

Yeah - too bad the person whose vision the game is doesn't play the game...

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Also - anyone else who spent a LOT of time playing Everquest getting PTSD every single time they hear "The Vision" as justification for stupid game design?

 

Am I the only one who remembers the wonderful days on the EQ forums where you could post pages upon pages explaining why something was not working well and just get told "That's the vision." It was the same deal. Brad had his ideas of how the game should be played - and you could play it that way or go play another MMO - in a time when there weren't really other options.

 

To be fair to SOE though - they DID listen to new ideas. For example, the 'sneak attack' implementation for rogues was added to the game based on my posts explaining how it should work.

 

Still good luck getting changes Brad didn't like through - IE "Epics should require EPIC quests and not everyoen is meant to be able to get one - else it'd not be epic!" (Even if it's a class defining item it seems...)

 

But hey - say what you will about Brad - guy played his own game - a lot.

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4 hours ago, Haunty said:

Yeah a lot of players don't seem to understand the vision of the game, and they get shocked when more of the vision gets implemented in a patch. NQ might tweak and change things based on the feedback, but it's going to go in that general direction.

 

A problem is that the person responsible for that vision seems incapable of explaining it very well and has a habit of sidestepping any direct questions regarding it.

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40 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

 

A problem is that he person responsible for that vision seems incapable of explaining it very well and has a habit of sidestepping any direct questions regarding it.

Reminds me of the qa

"Cool things for pvp. But I'm not gonna talk about it now" *slowclap* why not NOW so ppl know what to expect. My guess is: he (or NQ) just enjoy the drama and salt after they drop a bomb 

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I don't think this is a deliberate attempt to hold out a carrot and enjoy the fallout..

 

The more we see JC talk, the more I see him being the same type of person Chris Roberts is, a man who dreams big and has a vision he really wants to see become a reality. And in that process he talks too much about things that may come and may have been discussed at least to some detail but are far from actually being ready for implementation. It's genuine nerdiness and enthusiasm with a severe case of a lack of media training and understanding that sometimes you just need to keep the good stuff inside until you actually have something structural and viable to say.

 

People like Naerais, Pann and Naunet probably cringe at some of the things JC says, not because he is not being honest but because he is setting expectations that can't be met (and they get to sort out the mess afterwards). And this is especially prevalent when Nyzaltar is not around and I think that is because he can get to JC in a way others can't as he has been around for much longer and probably know JC better than the other CMs.

 

There is a lot of similarities between StarCitizen and Dual Universe. Both are massively innovative projects where much of what is done needs to literally be invented and created. And that takes time which CIG has in abundance due to a solid funding model but NQ is not that lucky and needs to work on an extremely tight budget.

 

Dual Universe, as I see it, will succeed or fail not based on the vision and idea behind the game. It will do either based on how well NQ can navigate the waters of budget and the effectiveness they can apply in spending it. DU is a novice studio, they are trying to bake a _very_ complex cake and seem to feel that they need to not take too much notice of the "noise" coming from us to get there, dig in and focus on what they think is the way forward. And in that process they miss some really good ideas and suggestions presented to them by the community which has a lot of really smart , invested and passionate people in it.

 

And I really, _really_ hope they will make this work even when I feel the worst is yet to come for them.

 

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I think "weakest point" of JC/NQ is understanding/underestimating players behaivor in building-hoarding games, so they fails to predict relativly obvious pattern/powers/tricks, that will be put in action againt their vision. In twisted way, players kinda always... outplay them here, leaving devs several steps behind to stuggle with patching of breaches made in their (often naive) plans.

 

So advice here is simple: listen community members with cynical brains burned by mega-hours of playing games. They have best hints about what will be put against you in this or that disign.

 

(like we, forum angels team, warned NQ about most incoming major issues! to be honest).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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It must be quite frustrating to have hundreds of players telling you how to make your game and even worse if they are shouting at you not in your first language. 

English speaking people are so often so damn rude to others who have taken the time to learn English, it makes me disappointed. 

 

I'm not saying everyone has to learn French (but, why not? improve yourself)

 

But just a little bit of respect and patience when so many people are shouting and ranting at someone who has taken time to learn your language would go a long way.

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4 minutes ago, Burble said:

It must be quite frustrating to have hundreds of players telling you how to make your game and even worse if they are shouting at you not in your first language. 

English speaking people are so often so damn rude to others who have taken the time to learn English, it makes me disappointed. 

 

I'm not saying everyone has to learn French (but, why not? improve yourself)

 

But just a little bit of respect and patience when so many people are shouting and ranting at someone who has taken time to learn your language would go a long way.

This is what you take away from all this?

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3 minutes ago, BobbyTwoShakes said:

This is what you take away from all this?

No, but it is something that many people don't even seem to consider.

 

just putting the idea out there

 

Have you ever tried to read a wall of text in a different language? How about 200 of them on a weekly basis?

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13 minutes ago, Burble said:

No, but it is something that many people don't even seem to consider.

 

just putting the idea out there

 

Have you ever tried to read a wall of text in a different language? How about 200 of them on a weekly basis?

English isn't my native language.

 

Everything you have said is completely irrelevant to what is currently being discussed. 

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Not really, it is very relevant to giving feedback to another human being who is communicating in a second language. I speak English native, Spanish quite fluently, French badly and a few other more obscure languages in little bits.

 

 

Even with a pretty fluent Spanish, reading a long text in Spanish is far more taxing to me than reading it in English. Just one text.

 

Even reading a lot of English emails for work is making me tired.

 

 

Now, after years of development of a game like this, I would find myself having a choice. Either destroy myself and die of exhaustion by trying to please everyone and read everything they constantly are trying to tell me (often in all different directions at once). Or, to focus *mostly*  on my own vision of the game I am making and actually devote my energy towards that work.

 

I would rather they devote their energy to actually making the game rather than waste all of it trying to please everyone at the same time.

 

 

It is so common to hear people on this forum bashing this JC guy (I don't know him myself) for not doing what they want. Saying he is arrogant and does not listen to the community.

 

That is clearly not the case. He is just smart enough to not destroy himself and to keep his energy directed at what he is doing.... making a game.

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Hello !

 

First of all, I really enjoy dual universe and I am going to share the things that I believe are the most frustrating for me.I started playing about two months ago. 

 

Usually travel and ship crashes are the most horrific experiences I had in game. From constant repairs to being stranded and walk for miles and now with the new update, having to replace things all the time making money short. as a space game, if feel flying and transporting things should be a bit more forgiving, because now I am quite afraid of flying unless I really have too even if I do really enjoy ship building and travels in general I event started scripting an autopilot in lua. But any mistake can de VERY costly in money and time (and it's not fun game time). so basically I would suggest no breaking parts so easily, especially cores that are now not replaceable ( I'm only talking about damages linked to physics not pvp)

 

Lagging is also a big pain but I think you already are aware of that.

 

Mining is to me not THAT boring, I enjoy the various tools so to me it feels like a mini game. I however don't like how boring the underground looks, and how unsurprising it is. And feel minibg should be a type of industry, with different machines etc, you should va able to basically build a mine and rely on it for a significant (how much I don't know) amount of time. Not just spend 5 hours digging and go to the next tile. It would mean that for the same amount of ore you should be able to build more objects but that it should be more complex and I retesting to access, like building complex systems.

 

Overall night time looks boring. Day time is pretty. I guess the lighting of night time is quite bland. 

 

In general I would think that instead of nerfing the current content to make the endgame further down the line, you could just add content that has this barrier. For instance no schematics for the existing items, but add new and really cool items that require schematics. Or if you want to force people to not be self reliant and isolationist, just enforce a limit of different items a specific player is allowed to industrialize, like industry license or various talent paths that you are not allowed to have simultaneously. 

 

Overall the game is nice, but so MANY times I had to execute boring tasks to get out of a situation. And the best parts of the game that is industry or flying feel more like a quanta sinkhole that Fun, especially flying, between parts repairs and fuel costs I have decided to literally just stay on alioth and never go to space, which is disappointing for a space game in my opinion. It should be more rewarding and easy to just explore and have fun with ships. 

 

I do enjoy the game and the concept is basically my dream game so that is why I sticking around despice all the hours of boring tasks. But in my opinion, a more casual gamer or someone without a strong love for the concept won't go past the first week of gameplay. It should be more immediately fun.

 

That's it for me. Thank you for creating this great and ambitious game. I do appreciate the work you are doing and your dedication to your vision.

 

Bye !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Burble said:

Now, after years of development of a game like this, I would find myself having a choice. Either destroy myself and die of exhaustion by trying to please everyone and read everything they constantly are trying to tell me (often in all different directions at once). Or, to focus *mostly*  on my own vision of the game I am making and actually devote my energy towards that work.

 

I would rather they devote their energy to actually making the game rather than waste all of it trying to please everyone at the same time.

Well....

 

Since you seem to be so worried about JC's well being from reading all our word walls - I have good news for you.

 

The current state of the game indicates that he doesn't read our word walls.

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2 hours ago, Mordgier said:

Well....

 

Since you seem to be so worried about JC's well being from reading all our word walls - I have good news for you.

 

The current state of the game indicates that he doesn't read our word walls.

 

Hey man, let's not get overly sarcastic towards each other about an honest discussion. I have no need to argue with you or anyone over a game.

 

The only point that I am making is that it is a whole lot of work to deal with hundreds of opinions and even more so when it is not your first language. Work that not only exhausts you but also detracts from the actual work of developing the game.

 

The dev's need to go home after work and relax a bit and have a life just as much as any of us need that. They are not slaves who must spend every waking hour satisfying ever customer demand. What they have done already is ground breaking in a number of ways, sometimes we lose sight of that. Insulting them openly and spreading negative opinions only hurts the game in the long run. Support what is being provided or leave. If the game eventually fails at this point it will be just as much the fault of the negative behaviour we inject as it will be the fault of the developers.

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13 minutes ago, Burble said:

Insulting them openly and spreading negative opinions only hurts the game in the long run.

You know what's insulting? Like - I'm legit super upset about this and it continues to really bother me.

 

JC telling us that mining and industry are too easy.

 

After I've spent the bulk of my time in the game doing nothing but mining and working on industry. Even when I was "pvp"ing  - I was mining on my alt to make progress in our industry. 6 hours a day, 7 days a week, since launch - to build a factory. JC who I am absolutely convinced has never mined a node in his life told me that what I did was "too easy". That. That was insulting.

 

But I should be concerned about how my feedback will make him feel? You know what - I don't care. I really don't.

 

He doesn't get to not mine, not build an industry and then cast judgment about something he has never done being "too easy". 

 

You are so worried about negative opinions hurting the game that you seem to be entirely unconcerned if the negative opinions are in fact valid.

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I really do feel your pain, please believe that. Somehow we are now in discourse and it may seem that my comments are directed at you personally. That is not the case. I have seen you posting many logical points. You have a legit reason for being upset now, I agree with you. I would be upset, even as a noob, if my measly month of work was now ruined. I get it.

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On 12/11/2020 at 3:00 PM, blazemonger said:

NQ is trying to sell an early alpha state development as a released game in beta as a paid for live service game. They are not owning up to their commitment and promises set out starting from kickstarter and continue to water down the game.

 

They are trying to make things work but due to the way they designed the game are not able to build complete game loops to facilitate that and seem unwilling to make changes to be able to actually do that by introducing PVE content which is needed to make mechanics work and instead think that they can save the game by introducing a Battle Royal mode and a creative sandbox mode.

 

They think that the mission system is the silver bullet that will solve all problems, they think that by adding a magic "available power" number to tiles they can create power management that is immersive and attractive. They do not consider options and suggestion that actually trigger gameplay for all game play styles and make the game complex, strategic and emergent.

 

If players find creative ways to play without affecting others, they nerf these options. If players find creative ways to play while impacting others  though creating obstacles and risk for others with the same end goal/effect, NQ thinks that's fine and really cool.

 

They say that the industry changes are what was always intended but they were not ready and the result was that  too many player got to "endgame" content (whatever that means) too fast.. Thing is, the changes do not take that endgame content away, it just denies those that did not get there yet for whatever reason the ability to do so while the ones that did will be able to carry on . NQ pretty much is of the opinion that as a solo player or small group you have no problem as you can just pay others whatever they want to ask for by using te markets.

 

Large orgs can isolate entirely from the in game economy and fend for themselves regardless of the changes because it hardly affects them as they have already stocked up and have so much money they can just blanket buy what other will have to work weeks, if not months for to get to. _THAT_  is what the economy is not starting, the isolationist behavior is not with the "small guy", it is with the big orgs who have build their own infrastructure internally, and did so to some degree by using early exploits, loopholes and possibly insider info, and have zero need or incentive to use or feed markets/the economy outside of dumping surplus at whatever price they desire to set for it and/or use their position to undercut and push out anyone trying to get a piece of the pie.

 

Yes, it would certainly cause a setback for many who worked hard to build a small business for themselves in game but the only way to correct the stranglehold the big orgs already have on the game will be to wipe and allow everyone to build their dream on even footing after massive changes are introduced which really are the definition of alpha state of development for a game.

 

 

To quote myself from Discord;

 

logic.PNG

 

 

 

And yes, I do feel I am being "clear, polite and to the point."

 

 

I agree 100% and I am starting to think that the backend infrastructure can't handle the dream concepts. As I mentioned a long time ago to you on Discord the super big orgs will kill the game like in Eve.

 

Eve have been trying to undo big powerhouse wealth for the last 2 years.

 

When they implement automated mining in DU they will kill the game for the smaller groups trying to have fun and probably the game too 

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