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DevBlog: The Maneuver Tool and Disconnecting Ships - DUscussion thread

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1 minute ago, blazemonger said:

It's pretty much another example of how NQ will manipulate the sandbox based on their own subjective ideas.

But that’s pretty much what every designer does. Imagine if a designer never used subjective ideas to design something...

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Sure, but if one thing is considered unwanted for X reason then is another thing also applies to X reason it should also be considered unwanted.

Frankly "Maneuver tooling" stuff to space has less impact on other players and poses less of a, if any,  risk for other players than space elevator towers.

 

Nerfing Maneuver tool in the way NQ is doing it also impacts "benign" use of the tool in a negative way..

 

NQ has always said they do not want to interfere in the game and prefer a hands off approach to let players figure stuff out. It was a selling point on the KS pitch actually. On several fronts now, NQ has actively manipulated and limited the way we interact with the sandbox and there is more to come (Industry is next on the list)

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9 hours ago, Anauine said:

I think NQ need to fix the bugs first before this ever gets released. Spinning ships due to adjusters stuck on applying force. Was told this was a lua issue although the fix I had the admin apply did not work.

If it is a lua issue then it's in NQ's own scripts, they still need to fix it.

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1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

If it is a lua issue then it's in NQ's own scripts, they still need to fix it.

It could be in the lua. But the open source hud developers have fixed it. Why can't the actual code be fixed? Funny because the real Devs can't seem to be bothered to fix the adjustor spin and it's been well over a week. Hilarious how the fans can fix things faster and better than the devs.

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1 hour ago, XKentX said:

Is it just me or overall community feedback on those features in the way they are proposed seems overwhelmingly negative?

Well i think most people are fine with the changes IF they are implemented correctly and all major issues that will arise are considered beforehand. Everyone is afraid of the impending shitshow. There are  those people with bad connections and also not everyone can pilot correctly in this game. These changes are gonna be killing those people who were heavily abusing disconnect. I'm not gonna lie, piloting is hard at start considering your first ships are kinda terrible and you have no clue about speeds, atmosphere altitudes and planet gravities. Almost everyone has exploited the disconnect as a beginner to avoid crashes. Now they will have to learn the hard way 😜 

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2 hours ago, XKentX said:

Is it just me or overall community feedback on those features in the way they are proposed seems overwhelmingly negative?

People are scared for the game. At this stage is critical that changes are tested and weighed.  One wrong move could spell the beginning of the end .   Making the game overly tedious, or just plain stupid like requiring everyone to use rockets to get out of atmo would cause people to leave.    These are not easy decisions to make, balancing PVE with PVP so the PVE  players are not served up on silver platters but the PVP people are able to have fun with it also.    I feel like the community doesn't think they are planning  things out.   

 

They also need to remember if COVID was not a thing right now people would not have a s much time to play so this is abnormal playtimes.  I know my play time will decrease drastically if COVID was gone.      

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Not sure if it was mentioned before.

 

But the maneuver tool is also used to get constructs off of your 'lawn'. If the tool has a 3min timer it will be awful to remove parked ships from your territory. Also I bet the guys who make the next expo will have to say something against that. This will  make  such community things very hard to manage.

 

As a personal note: anything that needs a timer or counter is in general a sign of bad design. Not sure what the 'abuse' of the maneuver tool is about, but I guess people bring heavy load into space without any fuel or design needs for the ship. Maybe let the tool just move empty ships then? 

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11 minutes ago, Casegard said:

Not sure if it was mentioned before.

 

But the maneuver tool is also used to get constructs off of your 'lawn'. If the tool has a 3min timer it will be awful to remove parked ships from your territory. Also I bet the guys who make the next expo will have to say something against that. This will  make  such community things very hard to manage.

 

As a personal note: anything that needs a timer or counter is in general a sign of bad design. Not sure what the 'abuse' of the maneuver tool is about, but I guess people bring heavy load into space without any fuel or design needs for the ship. Maybe let the tool just move empty ships then? 

This is a good point.   Having to wait so we can move those ships would be awful.  

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19 hours ago, vertex said:

Most of the time I got my AGG ship parked at 1050m above my base at Sanctuary (using the fact that logging out will freeze it in place because the AGG wouldn't keep it there when I'm gone as I understand it). I use an elevator platform (sometimes called magic carpet) to reach it and go down again. The AGG ship can maneuver in atmosphere but not lift without AGG support. Will my design be invalidated by this change? @NQ-Naunet could you please put child gloves on for us AGG captains and explain exactly how we need to prepare and what to expect?


First up I'm here to respond to this, as promised! @vertex

I'll paraphrase the answer I received from JC: "Having a ship 'parked' and frozen above your base is not the intended use of AGG. A ship using AGG should ideally be parked in orbit or on the ground, as AGG's true benefit is in allowing ships to navigate at ~1000m in the atmosphere. For future missions that require altitude consideration, this is where AGG will shine."

So 1) your design will be somewhat invalidated by this change, yes, and 2) if you still plan to keep your ship parked above your base, equipping it with powerful engines and carrying a lot of fuel will be the thing to do.

I hope this answers your question!

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Last night I landed my L core ship on my AGG platform. Turned off the boosters, hopped out of my flight seat, and the ship proceeds to fall through the AGG platform. I managed to jump off the platform and land on the ship and alt f4 before is slammed into the ground. I then had to force re-spawn to the platform and maneuver the ship to the ground 9 times to get it down safely.

Another point: The bug with AGGs where the generator stops working when you move away from the ships has been worked around by logging off when the ship is at the desired parking altitude. Now, when we log off the AGG ships will just fall to the ground. NQ would say "Build a platform" But obviously that doesn't work either.

I am very disappointed with the changes NQ is planning to make because they are coming before the bug fixes. The number one reason we use the maneuver tool and alt f4 is to prevent bugs from destroying our ships. Destructible elements just add insult to injury.

It is clear to me that NQ has no idea what they are doing since this is the first game they have created. Well, NQ will kill the game just as quickly as they released it if they aren't careful.

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7 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

Personally, I can only agree that core stacking should not be possible or at least be limited in use to say 2 or 3 levels but I doubt it will ever happen as the concept of space elevators will never be nerfed or removed, even when it is not that different from what players do with the maneuver tool (serves the same purpose in many ways), because NQ considers elevators "cool" and "emergent gameplay".

 

It's pretty much another example of how NQ will manipulate the sandbox based on their own subjective ideas.

To be fair, the space elevator requires some level of material investment. That being said, they should also be limited in placement, specifically 75 to 100km from the main market hubs. Maybe even 10km from each other (first come, first serve), so to include planetary government limitations on the hazards to navigation a space elevator creates.

I would also like to see a means of the player to make the space elevator accessible to the public. So that I could build one on my tile, and for a cost allow players to buy tickets (priced at weight, volume) as well as docking fees at the space station in orbit. 

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11 minutes ago, NQ-Naunet said:


First up I'm here to respond to this, as promised! @vertex

I'll paraphrase the answer I received from JC: "Having a ship 'parked' and frozen above your base is not the intended use of AGG. A ship using AGG should ideally be parked in orbit or on the ground, as AGG's true benefit is in allowing ships to navigate at ~1000m in the atmosphere. For future missions that require altitude consideration, this is where AGG will shine."

So 1) your design will be somewhat invalidated by this change, yes, and 2) if you still plan to keep your ship parked above your base, equipping it with powerful engines and carrying a lot of fuel will be the thing to do.

I hope this answers your question!

When we go mining we will need to have enough thrust to land the AGG to mine and fill it up then get back to the 1000m or will the ship stay at height while being loaded  ? 

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38 minutes ago, NQ-Naunet said:


First up I'm here to respond to this, as promised! @vertex

I'll paraphrase the answer I received from JC: "Having a ship 'parked' and frozen above your base is not the intended use of AGG. A ship using AGG should ideally be parked in orbit or on the ground, as AGG's true benefit is in allowing ships to navigate at ~1000m in the atmosphere. For future missions that require altitude consideration, this is where AGG will shine."

So 1) your design will be somewhat invalidated by this change, yes, and 2) if you still plan to keep your ship parked above your base, equipping it with powerful engines and carrying a lot of fuel will be the thing to do.

I hope this answers your question!

Then I see no use at all for AGG as described...IF the ship can lift the weight without AGG and navigate from the ground anyhow....What then is ANY use of Agg as it can already obvously navigate at 1000M in atmos. Could JC provide a scenario so we understand the intended use? Also how the heck do powerful engines and fuel park anything above a base?

 

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11 minutes ago, SpaceGamer said:

Then I see no use at all for AGG as described...IF the ship can lift the weight without AGG and navigate from the ground anyhow....What then is ANY use of Agg as it can already obvously navigate at 100M in atmos.

 

The only use left I see is to ascend 10-0% atmo .I doubt anyone use it the way they say it is intended.There is no need for that.I can't get out of atmo loaded without that my XL engines take too long to warm up. And maneuvers XL are just freights.

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4 minutes ago, SpaceGamer said:

Then I see no use at all for AGG as described...IF the ship can lift the weight without AGG and navigate from the ground anyhow....What then is ANY use of Agg as it can already obvously navigate at 1000M in atmos. Could JC provide a scenario so we understand the intended use?

 

Agreed  spell it out like we are kids, obviously we don't understand how "anti gravity" is supposed to be used .      In orbit only down to planet,  only dropping down to pick stuff up and drop it off ? 

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3 minutes ago, Fembot68 said:

Agreed  spell it out like we are kids, obviously we don't understand how "anti gravity" is supposed to be used .      In orbit only down to planet,  only dropping down to pick stuff up and drop it off

Not for that, the ship will also fall down... Unless you mean real orbit.

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On 11/25/2020 at 10:02 AM, sysadrift said:

Maybe you should actually fix the AGG ships falling out of the sky before you introduce this change.  Some of us use this as a workaround to that particular bug, and this will make AGG more or less worthless. 

Agreed.  If AGG Ships do not 'freeze' in place as they're supposed to - and stay frozen - then they are extremely limited.  But it will simply require keeping an active player in range of the ship - which I get - platforms for landing it is!

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1 hour ago, Hiturn said:

I can't get out of atmo loaded without that my XL engines take too long to warm up.

If you have enough atmo thrust and lift (~1.2-1.4g atmo thrust, ~1.5-1.7g high alt lift, ~300+m/s max speed), you should have no trouble ascending to 0.08 atmo and give space engines literal minutes to warm up fully.

 

I speak from personal experience, with ships as massive as 5.5kt.

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19 minutes ago, Lachenlaud said:

Agreed.  If AGG Ships do not 'freeze' in place as they're supposed to - and stay frozen - then they are extremely limited.  But it will simply require keeping an active player in range of the ship - which I get - platforms for landing it is!

@LachenlaudThey just stated that AGG is NOT intended to hold a ship in place.... I'll paraphrase the answer I received from JC: "Having a ship 'parked' and frozen above your base is not the intended use of AGG. A ship using AGG should ideally be parked in orbit or on the ground, as AGG's true benefit is in allowing ships to navigate at ~1000m in the atmosphere. For future missions that require altitude consideration, this is where AGG will shine."

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12 minutes ago, SpaceGamer said:

They just stated that AGG is NOT intended to hold a ship in place

Are the devs completely out of touch with how people have been playing their game for the past few months? And what's the point of calling it a sandbox if stuff is only supposed to be used in certain ways even if it seems like it could be used in a lot more?

 

May as well rename DU to "JC's Vision(tm)" and put as the description "Follow JC's Glorious ViSiOn and adhere to rigid rules as you fulfill his WiShEs".

 

I've had about enough of this nonsense.

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